D4 hitch - I think - lugs broke off

[Glynhouse]

I think this one is all about a D4 hitch that has let go ?
Not sure how the van came off but the lugs should not break !

DD

Caravaners Forum • View topic - Safety Chain attachment points sheared off!! (http://tinyurl.com/7jq48o2)

[p38arover]

Happens with Prados, too.

This a friend's Prado hitch:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/04/474.jpg

[Dougal]

This picture shows the failure pretty well. I would have liked to see the angle and size of the shackles used. The failure angle suggests they put a large bending load on the ears and broke them off.

View image: photo 2 (http://postimage.org/image/8gdoqqa9j/)

[101RRS]

I would have thought that there was enough evidence for the appropriate authorities to do a recall on all D3/D4/RRS because of this tow arrangement.

On this site we have heard of the plow falling out of the socket - once with a van attached as it pulled into a garage and another where the plow has just fallen out. In addition there was a recent case where the plow failed due to an old crack in the casting.

Now we have the area of the actual plow socket that the safety chains connect to have failed. Now I have a Mitch Hitch fitted to my vehicle but those holes in the casting are those that the Mitch Hitch actually bolts too, however the load is shared by both holes, the plow socket and the recovery point so no one point will have the load that a break away van would place on one or both safety chains.

I think this should be a worry to anyone who tows heavy trailers or vans.

Garry

[Graeme]

If the chains weren't crossed they (the lugs) may have been broken off by sharp turns before the van uncoupled.

The green lever looks as though its been pulled to the left by an uncrossed chain rather than just pulled back by a flying chain.

[Glynhouse]

Like a few of us on here I have a Mitch Hitch, when installing it I had a good think about how much pressure that the two bolts that fix it through those same holes put on a cast fitting ? especially if it did not sit quite flat which mine did fortunately.
But I still don't like cast in these situations the shock load of a van taking up the slack in the chains I imagine would be pretty high !

DD

[Dirty3]

Plus, the author of the original post indicated that it took 5 people to get the van onto the tow ball???

I wonder what the downward force on the towball was? For the van to become decoupled from the hitch also.....something was really wrong.
But I must agree one of the reasons I fitted a Mitch htich from the start was I just didn't have faith in the factory hitch would handle excess force of a camper trailer. My camper weighs in around 1000kg. Plus it was too low to the gbround, so the Mitch Hitch is just right.

[101RRS]

If the chains weren't crossed they (the lugs) may have been broken off by sharp turns before the van uncoupled.

It doesn't matter - those safety chain points should be able to restrain up to 3.5t of wildly swinging trailer is just about all conditions.

Garry

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Says a lot about cast chassis components! A rolled steel item would have deformed and not fractured like that. :(

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/04/468.jpg

When you feel the component size, it is pretty pathetic. I'll be looking for alternative points and barring that I'll be adding an additional connection to the much stronger recovery point.

Just had another look and am pretty sure you could fit eye bolts directly to the chassis just outside where the OEM fittings are mounted, without reducing ground clearance or preventing the cover fitting on.

http://www.blackwoods.com.au/Images/Parts/168/Eyebolt_Collared.jpg

[Graeme]

It doesn't matter - those safety chain points should be able to restrain up to 3.5t of wildly swinging trailer is just about all conditions.

Garry
I meant that the chains were too short for the sharp bends when not crossed so something had to break. The left broke when turned sharply to the right and vice versa. I think the driver messed-up attaching the van on 3 counts - failed to ensure the coupling was properly engaged, failed to ensure the coupling safety mechanism was properly engaged and failed to cross the chains or leave sufficient slack.

[101RRS]

A agree - when reading the thread on the caravan site my initial thought was that the chains were too short but the poster later said everything came apart when straight and level.

Whatever - the whole saga is of interest - and concern

[discotwinturbo]

I am now pretty concerned.
I tow a triple axle horse float, with a tonne of meat....3.5 tonnes in total.
If the hitch brakes, there will be plenty of dog food...and a very distraught wife.
Will a Mitch hitch be a stronger option for me ?

Brett....

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I am now pretty concerned.
I tow a triple axle horse float, with a tonne of meat....3.5 tonnes in total.
If the hitch brakes, there will be plenty of dog food...and a very distraught wife.
Will a Mitch hitch be a stronger option for me ?

Brett....Me too, am very concerned.

The mitch hitch apparently bolts to the same fitting that broke.

So my plan is to look into the eye bolts bolted through the rear cross member with a reinforcing plate on the top side.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/04/445.jpg

[Glynhouse]

I think a lot of us probably are !

Anyone have the HR towbar fitted (the one they told me they don't make when I was looking) ? Where do they have their safety chains ?
I need the extra height the Mitch gives me so not much help.

DD



[QUOTE=Lotz-A-Landies;1670284]Me too, am very concerned.

The mitch hitch apparently bolts to the same fitting that broke.

[Dougal]

Can someone post a picture of these not-broken from the same angle as the broken picture?

[Redback]

Me too, am very concerned.

The mitch hitch apparently bolts to the same fitting that broke.

So my plan is to look into the eye bolts bolted through the rear cross member with a reinforcing plate on the top side.



It bolts to the recovery point, which is a rated recovery point, I would imagine should cope better with shock loads, the Mitch Hitch is also engineered and rated to 3500kg, none have failed so far, unlike the D3 hitch and now the D4 factory hitch.

Besides it's the saftey chain anchor points that broke not the hitch itself.

Baz.

[TerryO]

Unlike the original LR hitch the Mitch Hitch has two coupling points and looking at it from a laymans perspective the top one would greatly reduce the down strain on the lower one which is the one that failed in this instance.

As soon as I looked at the origial D3 hitch when I bought the old girl the first thing I did was buy a Mitch Hitch and having used it many times I have 100% more confidence in it than the original.

In this instance I'd be surprized if the chains weren't adjusted to short, he said he had gone around a tight corner and just after it failed and the caravan disconnected from the Disco. Having said that it is not good enough that it failed in the way it did.

cheers,
Terry

[Redback]

Unlike the original LR hitch the Mitch Hitch has two coupling points and looking at it from a laymans perspective the top one would greatly reduce the down strain on the lower one which is the one that failed in this instance.

As soon as I looked at the origial D3 hitch when I bought the old girl the first thing I did was buy a Mitch Hitch and having used it many times I have 100% more confidence in it than the original.

In this instance I'd be surprized if the chains weren't adjusted to short, he said he had gone around a tight corner and just after it failed and the caravan disconnected from the Disco. Having said that it is not good enough that it failed in the way it did.

cheers,
Terry

LR will try with all it's might to get out of paying for the repairs to the van in the warrenty claim, they'll probably say the van is not a LR approved accessory;)

[gghaggis]

I'd agree that the van was not correctly attached. The chains don't appear to have been crossed, the cable for the emergency braking system was incorrectly attached, and it sounds like the towball receiver wasn't clamped.

The safety wire should be looped through the central recovery point (which is completely isolated from the towing assembly) - in fact I attach my chains there as well.

The OP changes the original scenario to suggest that the van decoupled _after_ the steep hairpin, so in reality (as he was going uphill) we don't know how long he drove the car with the van hanging on the safety chains. Then decelerating/accelerating to get up the following hill. If he'd exceeded the ball weight (which one of the posters suggests), that would be some force on the eyelets! I'm not surprised they broke.

Cheers,

Gordon

[Lotz-A-Landies]

LR will try with all it's might to get out of paying for the repairs to the van in the warrenty claim, they'll probably say the van is not a LR approved accessory;)
Plus, the author of the original post indicated that it took 5 people to get the van onto the tow ball???
...<snip>If it took 5 people to lift the van onto the tow ball, it was too heavy and LRA would be correct to refuse the claim.

Still with the shock loadings of over-ride brakes one would be concerned about stress fractures over time. (Not that I use over ride brakes)

[TerryO]

If it took 5 people to lift the van onto the tow ball, it was too heavy and LRA would be correct to refuse the claim.



Given it was a caravan was that five pensioners or five fit young blokes to lift it back on? And was it lined up perfectly or did they have to try and wiggle a dual axle van around to get it to line up?

To many open ended half baked statements from the original writer to be able to try and guess what is accurate or not and to much guessing going on.



cheers,
Terry

[Redback]

If it took 5 people to lift the van onto the tow ball, it was too heavy and LRA would be correct to refuse the claim.



5 people, must have missed that, definately something wrong there, it's not that hard to couple a van or trailer, this says a lot in regards to how well have they set up the van and car.

I cringe at some setups I see when out touring, I'm amazed there aren't more accidents involving towing big vans.

Baz.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

...
I cringe at some setups I see when out touring, I'm amazed there aren't more accidents involving towing big vans.

Baz.Baz

Did you read the bit about WDH but the owner did not pick up on the fact that he should not use a WDH on a D4. I expected the forum to be advising him to fit one next time????? :o

Diana

[Redback]

I just re-read the 5 people lifting the van, I understand now, must have a lot of ball weight.

As for WDHs, I'd rather set the car and camper up properly for towing, rather than add something to compensate for the wrong setup.

I would imagine that for the van to come off the ball, it hasn't been put on properly and hasn't locked in or the lock isn't adjusted so it prevents it coming off.

I guess he is pretty lucky, could have been so much worse.

So glad we have the mitch hitch, we aren't towing anything large either, just a camper.

Baz.

[Graeme]

Comment deleted - I wasn't there.

[mowog]

5 people to lift?

Ok didn't anyone think about using the jockey wheel to lift the van? Even if the nose is on the ground a combination of jack and jockey wheel would do the job.

The whole things sounds like a comedy of errors from the start.

[gghaggis]

The whole things sounds like a comedy of errors from the start.

Exactly, so a little premature to start ringing the scare-monger bells just yet.

Cheers,

Gordon

[Pedro_The_Swift]

If it did take 5 people to lift the draw bar---

ya gotta wonder what the bar was doing on the ground to begin with---

[Lotz-A-Landies]

<snip>... So glad we have the mitch hitch, we aren't towing anything large either, just a camper.

Baz.Baz

Do you find the Mitch Hitch to be a "knee knocker"?

Diana

[Pedro_The_Swift]

So my plan is to look into the eye bolts bolted through the rear cross member with a reinforcing plate on the top side.



I think you'll find eye bolts only "work" when in a threaded hole,,,;)

[Redback]

Baz

Do you find the Mitch Hitch to be a "knee knocker"?

Diana

No, you will bump into the wheel on the wheel carrier first:D

Baz.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

No, you will bump into the wheel on the wheel carrier first:D

Baz.https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/749.jpg

[mervwho]

After driving heavy vehicles and towing trailers for many years this to me sounds like a complete comedy of errors. If the van was correctly attached to the vehicle the chances of this happening is near on zero. The number of people that lifted the van back onto the coupling tells me that it was loaded front heavy by a mile ect ect ect. I think that the driver is simply looking at any excuse other than himself for the cause of this breakage which could have been catastrophic.

[chuck]

We just built a new manufacturing facility for Hayman Reece (Trimas Corporation).
The Boss has a D4 and that does not have a Hayman Reece tow/bar hitch on it!!

Regards

Chuck

[PaulD68]

Folks ,
As the driver of the vehicle in question, I have sat back and watched this conversation with great interest. The car is my second LR and I’m very pro this great make. For that reason, I wanted to protect the brand and thus avoided highlighting the issue on the AULRO forum. However, noting that it is just me dealing with LR Aus, I still wanted to seek advice from others who may have experienced similar problems with other types of cars.

I’m can assure you that I am fastidious when it comes to my family’s safety and how I tow our caravan. My statement of ‘potential human error’ simply refers to the one aspect of coupling the caravan which did not have a secondary locking mechanism –ie the hitch lock.

The chains are the perfect length (would permitted attachment at 90 degrees and didn’t hit speed bumps) , the chains were crossed as recommended, and attached using rated 1.5T shackles. I don’t use a WDH as I don’t consider it necessary and judging by the balance of feedback, that appears to be a good decision. The brake safe cable was passed through both safety chain attachment points.

The hairpin corner preceding the accident was taken as wide as possible and very slowly. The caravan became detached about 20m after the corner on a straight piece of inclined road, it coincided with starting to accelerate up the hill. The shackles were unmarked after breaking away.

The speculation over 5 chaps lifting the caravan back on is amusing. Why 5? Because 5 chaps had kindly stopped to help and we all looked at the jockey and said “don’t bother well just pick it up” – I was able to reverse straight back onto the van. The caravan had no water in its tanks and enough gear for just 3 days at the coast (no annex), it was probably about 2.1T and the ball weight had no reason to be anything but ‘normal’. If there are any aspects of my account of what happened that are still not clear, please ask and I will clarify.

Finally, whilst my rig is perfectly level using the OEM bar, the frequent talk of a Mitch Hitch is making me think that it will be the only way that I can restore my young family’s confidence in the vehicle. As I said, It was not my intention for this issue to be shared so broadly whilst I’m still seeking a solution with LR, but I’ll keep you posted as best I can.
Kind regards
Paul

[bcl]

Well written Paul. The facts are always good but sometimes not as entertaining.

All the best with your repair. Lucky it didn't occur at speed though.

I will ensure I also use rated shackles from now on.

[Glynhouse]

Thanks for the post Paul .

I had a long post typed up but you have answered most of my queries, as for the number of people lifting the bar as has been pointed out, I don't know how fit most Of the members on here are, but your van would probably have around 200 kgs on the ball, 5 people would be around 40 kgs each (100 lbs) that would cut me out !! Probablyy not flat level ground either.

Best of luck.

DD

[gotaflat]

I must say I am concerned about the break, particularly as I am loading up about 3t of trailer and horses this morning.

Given LR are aware of this incident, is there a process (for them) to look into a potential weakness in the tow hitch structure and engineering? And is there a way for owners to get any official feed back or action taken by LR (if needed)?

I must say that I am not 100% happy with the factory tow hitch tongue and fit into the receiver, it feels very sloppy and on certain trailers with tandem axel trailers tending to bang the hitch around a lot in the receiver. Following some other threads on this have resorted to using some PVC tape to take up some of the slack when towing certain empty tandem trailers. I will be putting some welds on the hitch and grinding back to make the hitch tighter in the receiver, however concerned about warranty etc. I will take this up the dealer when I take the car in 2 weeks for a service.....(and de-construction of the interior to fix the reverse and all the surround cameras!)

Anyway, am interested to know if LR will look into the incident and any 'potential' issue.

Cheers

[101RRS]

Paul,

You seem to believe that the chains were not too tight and did not pull the safety shackles out on the bends.

Given that, I guess you believe that the caravan and car parted ways first and then the shackles pulled out of the the holes in the car etc.

Can you tell us what style of hitch you have on your van and specifically why the van and car parted ways. You have alluded to a possible human error and if that is the case can you explain what this error was.(at this stage I think everyone here is interested in learning rather than criticising - let the person who is guilt free cast the first stone and all that)

Also was there a failure of any part of the tow hitch arrangement.

Also I think that your rated shackles might be a bit light (though they held up in this case) given the weight of your van and that in theory the load should be able to be carried by one chain an shackle in a worst case scenario - like a detached, swaying van that has all its weight momentarily in one chain and shackle.

I appreciate you coming on here and explaining the process.

Cheers

Garry

[CaverD3]

IWill a Mitch hitch be a stronger option for me ?

Brett....

I would say yes.

Mitch Hitch had a batch where the crush tube was too long and they had failed top bushes. I only know of and have seen one sheered top bolt. The hitch bent and the tongue stayed attached to the hitch and the hitch to the recovery eyes, so van stayed atteched and chains did not come into use. Being rolled steel it just bent downwards. There is a flat plate bolted against the chassis by two bolts. The friction caused is what will take most of the load not the bolts. I would say the mitch hitch is quite robust with the concequence of failure being less.

[101RRS]

With the Mitch Hitch downward forces are shared between the vehicle recovery point where the cross bolt and nylon spacer go and the two rear bolts that bolt the hitch to the safety chain holes cast into the OEM tow hitch socket.

Pulling forces are shared between the above three points but also the OEM tow hitch socket as there is a metal fitting (something like the top end of the plow)that goes in there and is held in place by the rear bolts (rather than the OEM locking mechanism).

So any one point is only taking approx 1/3 of the overall load - even in a breakaway.

Garry

[Graeme]

I must say I am concerned about the break, particularly as I am loading up about 3t of trailer and horses this morning.
1 chain, if long enough to withstand maximum turning to the opposite side, could be attached to the recovery eye as that looks to be a lot stronger than the chain loops.

[Fatso]

Just wondering what type of cast is used for the cast section of the tow hitch reciever , Does any one know if the cast is Grey or Ductile cast ?? .

[Dougal]

Just wondering what type of cast is used for the cast section of the tow hitch reciever , Does any one know if the cast is Grey or Ductile cast ?? .

Feel free to take a core sample, polish, etch and inspect it through a microscope.;)

I would expect cast steel rather than cast iron. But it's just a guess.

[Graeme]

I also expected cast steel however as it appears to have snapped rather than distorted I'm not at all sure. I suspect filing with a fine file would reveal its nature but I'm no metalurgist.

[PaulD68]

Paul,

You seem to believe that the chains were not too tight and did not pull the safety shackles out on the bends.

Given that, I guess you believe that the caravan and car parted ways first and then the shackles pulled out of the the holes in the car etc.

Can you tell us what style of hitch you have on your van and specifically why the van and car parted ways. You have alluded to a possible human error and if that is the case can you explain what this error was.(at this stage I think everyone here is interested in learning rather than criticising - let the person who is guilt free cast the first stone and all that)

Also was there a failure of any part of the tow hitch arrangement.

Also I think that your rated shackles might be a bit light (though they held up in this case) given the weight of your van and that in theory the load should be able to be carried by one chain an shackle in a worst case scenario - like a detached, swaying van that has all its weight momentarily in one chain and shackle.

I appreciate you coming on here and explaining the process.

Cheers

Garry

Hi Garry,

I know that the chains allowed extreme articulation as I had just left a very tight spot in a full caravan park and had to reverse onto the van at about 75 degrees –chains went on fine, but I made a bit of a mess of the grass as I pulled away.

The hitch on the caravan is the standard Jayco hitch, as are the chains and shackles. Nothing is modified on the van or vehicle.

I don’t know exactly why the caravan departed, but as I said in my last, the one area that I can’t prove as being 100% is the caravan hitch lock as I didn’t put a lock through the eyelet. So whilst I’m 99% sure that it was fully down, the lack of a secondary physical mechanism means that I can’t be 100%.

There was no failure of the tow hitch arrangement, just the safety points.

I note your comment about the shackles, but I don’t want to start another thread as they performed as expected - there are days worth of reading on the topic of shackles on caravan forums.

Hope that helps,
Paul

[discotwinturbo]

Hi Garry,

I know that the chains allowed extreme articulation as I had just left a very tight spot in a full caravan park and had to reverse onto the van at about 75 degrees &ndash;chains went on fine, but I made a bit of a mess of the grass as I pulled away.

The hitch on the caravan is the standard Jayco hitch, as are the chains and shackles. Nothing is modified on the van or vehicle.

I don&rsquo;t know exactly why the caravan departed, but as I said in my last, the one area that I can&rsquo;t prove as being 100% is the caravan hitch lock as I didn&rsquo;t put a lock through the eyelet. So whilst I&rsquo;m 99% sure that it was fully down, the lack of a secondary physical mechanism means that I can&rsquo;t be 100%.

There was no failure of the tow hitch arrangement, just the safety points.

I note your comment about the shackles, but I don&rsquo;t want to start another thread as they performed as expected - there are days worth of reading on the topic of shackles on caravan forums.

Hope that helps,
Paul

Paul,

We drove 250 kms with 3.5 tonne of horse float behind....hitch weight 340 kgs.

I thought I dropped the hitch lock down and put the pin in....but must not have. Made it down safely probably due to the very heavy weight. Felt like a dill when I went to remove the car.....felt extremely lucky. That kind of weight detaching would not doubt break my point as your did where the chains are attached. I have very heavy chains and 2.5 tonne for each shackle....more than enough to handle the break.

I will be double checking from now on.

Brett....

[101RRS]

Thanks Paul.

I have a OziHitch on my van so unless I forget to put the pin in it should be OK. However I have a standard tow ball socket on my box trailer and I ahve on a couple of occasions put it on and the tongue on the inside was not seated but noticed it before any damage was done - I never lock the side lever (though I check it is in place) but after your experience I might change that.

Now of course the lugs on the side of the OEM hitch should not have failed but I think using the recovery ring as the point the chains are connected to and using the lugs to only activate the breakaway brake mechanism might be the better way to go if OEM gear is being used.

Thanks for your candidness.

Garry

[Graeme]

I never lock the side lever (though I check it is in place) but after your experience I might change that.
After the 2nd time my box trailer was left hanging on its chain I now use an R clip which is on my finger if its not on the locked coupling to prevent accidentally not fitting it.

[Fatso]

Feel free to take a core sample, polish, etch and inspect it through a microscope.;)

I would expect cast steel rather than cast iron. But it's just a guess.

Was interested as there are different types of cast iron , if in fact the centre part of the tow hitch reciever is cast iron , if it is the generic grey cast then that would not be a good type of cast for a hitch reciever etc or hooking chains too .

[Dougal]

Was interested as there are different types of cast iron , if in fact the centre part of the tow hitch reciever is cast iron , if it is the generic grey cast then that would not be a good type of cast for a hitch reciever etc or hooking chains too .

Tap it with a spanner. Cast iron sounds dead, cast steel has a ring to it. Not much is made from cast iron for automotive parts these days, but I'm open to being surprised.

It takes a fair bit of investigation to find out exactly how it broke and how much it yielded. The original photos aren't enough to make that call.

[101RRS]

Can cast iron be welded to steel?? The cast housing is welded to the rear cross member.

Garry

[Dougal]

Can cast iron be welded to steel?? The cast housing is welded to the rear cross member.

Garry

Yes it can, but it's not often done. I expect it to be cast steel, not cast iron.

[PaulD68]

Tap it with a spanner. Cast iron sounds dead, cast steel has a ring to it. Not much is made from cast iron for automotive parts these days, but I'm open to being surprised.

It takes a fair bit of investigation to find out exactly how it broke and how much it yielded. The original photos aren't enough to make that call.

Chaps, I've just taken a spanner to the casting and I'd say its a 'ring' more than 'dead'! Although the box section chassis has rather good acoustics and could probably make Soap 'ring' like steel

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Actually it is most likely a forged fitting, at least the receiver section would be forged into a cast steel blank. Still any of the casting mechanisms wont take lightly to shock loads and fracture where rolled steel will have plastic deformation before an eventual failure.