it's official

[incisor]

i'm too ****ing stupid to sort out the brakes on a ser ii shorty!

everything is new

i finally have a consistent half a stroke to a hard pedal

pulled it all apart AGAIN today

seem to have even wear marks on the shoes and drums

springs are all round the right way

master cyl appears is fine (i may need to adjust the stroke a little)

but the son of a bitch still grabs and tightens up esp on passenger side ...

most frustrating ......

but in the cooling down periods i got some work done on petal as well ... just basic stuff fitting rubbers etc etc

[85 county]

so push the peddle, nothing happens then the peddle gets hard and then she bites??

[The ho har's]

i'm too ****ing stupid to sort out the brakes on a ser ii shorty!




I wasnt going to say that:o but you did:p:D



Set up a day when we all can chip in:D:D

Mrs hh:angel:

[Blknight.aus]

swap the flex lines over left to right and see what happens.

I have had a new hose that was poorly made and had a crush point in the fitting, fluid would easily go in under pressure but would not return resulting in brakes that grabbed and dragged after application.

you could also not have the freeplay at the top adjusted correctly or a sticking fast fill valve on the MC preventing the system from dumping pressure.

[incisor]

put another two new hoses on today in the vain hope that would be the problem, but alas no...

will go over the MC adjustments again after the weekend..

my glasses keep fogging up every time i go near it at the moment.... :angel:

[incisor]

so push the peddle, nothing happens then the peddle gets hard and then she bites??

no not after todays effort...

pedal now behaves and i get hard pedal at about 50% stroke

(you can hear the shoes moving in the hub)

BUT

if you rotate the hubs either way the darling little things tighten up and bind on the shoes.

[incisor]

I wasnt going to say that:o but you did:p
being the realist that i am :D:D:D:D:D:(

[85 county]

no not after todays effort...

pedal now behaves and i get hard pedal at about 50% stroke

(you can hear the shoes moving in the hub)

BUT

if you rotate the hubs either way the darling little things tighten up and bind on the shoes.

if by a hard pedal you me pressure then there is an ajustment problem, probably shoes. i think this is more likely if you can hear the shoes moving, becouse there should be very little movement.

binding do you meen the brakes come on or thay lock up? if thay lock up is that with pedal on or not

[Blknight.aus]

just to be dumb as a post...

did you clean the drums out from the preservative and thats not holding the shoes to the drums?

Are the drums actually round?

Are the shoes centering correctly?

Are the snails walking the shoes?

[incisor]

did you clean the drums out from the preservative and thats not holding the shoes to the drums?

Are the drums actually round?

Are the shoes centering correctly?

Are the snails walking the shoes?

yes to all the above to the best of my knowledge

cleaned them

i have even wear pattern on the drum and the shoes with what seems a consistent coverage of the majority of both

snails seems to be working fine, i can back them off and tighten them so the hub wont turn and when i back it off the hubs will turn but they tighten and bind if you keep turning on both fronts, rears are fine it seems. :p

[85 county]

snails seems to be working fine, i can back them off and tighten them so the hub wont turn and when i back it off the hubs will turn but they tighten and bind if you keep turning on both fronts, rears are fine it seems. :p

sorry i am not clear on what you are saying.

on the frount you nip up the snails, then back them off a notch. the drum will rotate freely but then it binds. this happens in both directions?

[Blknight.aus]

heres a wrenchy one for you.

the return pipe to the MC is a touch dicey....

while all the shoes are up under pressure the fluid returns, once system pressure drops low enough the rears continue to release normally and the fluid transfers to the front till the shoes touch just enough to self energise.

to test it...

get the fault to occur
apply the brakes hard
wind the adjusters up tight
release the brake pedal
crack both the front brake pipes, preferably up at the 4 way joint that connects FL, FR, MC and Rear line.
wind off the snail cams


it should drop some fluid and if the brakes begin to improve we have an answer. If it doesnt and the brakes remain tight on the front begin cracking the lines closer and closer to the cylinders.

IF all the lines from the 4 way check out to be sound then the most likely culprit is the line from the MC to the 4 way or the fast fill valve.

[incisor]

sorry i am not clear on what you are saying.

on the front you nip up the snails, then back them off a notch. the drum will rotate freely but then it binds. this happens in both directions?

you got it in one...

and it stays bound...

[newhue]

Incisor, I feel your pain, my right rear was doing the same. In the end I got the ****s and took 1 or 2 mm of the brake shoe where it seats in the wheel cylinder. Probably a cardinal sin but they work now.

[Blknight.aus]

you got it in one...

and it stays bound...

thats a clue to out of round drums with incorrectly matched (usually oversized) shoes.

[incisor]

thats a clue to out of round drums with incorrectly matched (usually oversized) shoes.

Hmmmmmm

[Pedro_The_Swift]

are the shoes rebonded or new?

[incisor]

everything is new cept me...

[Blknight.aus]

to check the drum for round.......

set/check the bearing play is 0 and that the hub can be freely turned.
mount the brake drum on backwards and secure it with taper screw and the wheel nuts
setup a DTI from the top swivel pin mount and bring it around to the inside on a set of locking arms.

if you have oversize meat on the shoes or oversize shoes in standard sized drums anything much more than 2 thou off round is going to cause you problems if you have everything else set correctly.

While the drum is in backwards...

push the shoe into the drum let it touch, if its touching at the leading and trailing edge of the lining then the shoe is nor correctly sized to the drum.. It'll eventually bed in by itself but your better off rounding it by hand initially... ideally you should get contact all the way around the lining inside the drum but in most cases you will wind up with either the center touching first (which is preferable as the brakes will get "grippier" as the shoe beds in and shoe life will be good) or the edges. If the edges touch first you need to very lightly sand back (wet and dry under flowing water to reduce dust) the edges untill you either get good contact all the way round or you have the smallest reasonable clearance for the shortest distance between the lining and the drum.


A field check to see if the pad linings are jamming into the drum is to wet them down (put the drum drain hole at the top and push a hose onto it while you turn the drum in a full circle) If the shoes dont stick in when the drum is wet then the cause of the problem is the shoes self energizing on contact then wedging into the drum.

[Lionelgee]

[QUOTE=Blknight.aus;1671730]to check the drum for round.......

set/check the bearing play is 0 and that the hub can be freely turned.
mount the brake drum on backwards and secure it with taper screw and the wheel nuts
setup a DTI from the top swivel pin mount and bring it around to the inside on a set of locking arms.

Hello Blknight,

Would DTI stand for Dial Test Indicator (mechanical measuring device used in machining) or
DTI Direct Tension Indicator (Applied Bolting Technology Products, Inc.)

Yes I had to look up what DTI might mean and the Free Dictionary came up with 37 possible hits for DTI http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/DTI (http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/DTI)

Out of the 37 possible alternatives those two above seemed the closest possible meaning.

There were these two other choices as well - the last one probably most applies to me –
Detective Training Institute or
Don't Try It … especially since I had to look it up :)


Kind Regards
Lionel

[85 county]

you got it in one...

and it stays bound...

ok we are getting close now.

stays bound, so if bound clockwise will it unbind if you reverce the turn?

if not how have you been unbinding them? to get them off

[Killer]

G'day Lionel, I am sure dave would be referring to a dial test indicator. Very useful for such purposes.

Cheers, Mick.

[Lionelgee]

G'day Lionel, I am sure dave would be referring to a dial test indicator. Very useful for such purposes.

Cheers, Mick.


G'day Mick,

Thanks for the reply. So back over in the link http://www.aulro.com/afvb/holden-powered-series-land-rovers Hodgo was give permission to post the attachment by the owner of All Four X 4 Spares of Newcastle 7th August 2011, 12:19 PM BEFORE FITTING A HOLDEN ENGINE CHECK ALIGMENT FIRST. The instrument in the very first photos is the DTI thingo?

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Killer]

Yes Lionel, that is a Dial test indicator or dial gauge or dial indicator or probably a lot of other names, but that is what Dave would have been referring to.

Cheers, Mick.

[Blknight.aus]

http://www.p-wholesale.com/upimg/19/66a2/dial-test-indicators-399.jpghttp://

one of these on a mag base with an arm, as pictured above....

in reality though its easier to set up one of
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/04/38.jpg

these finger type DTI's than a probe one for this job but since its a 10 or 11 inch drum we're working on theres miles of room.

[Blknight.aus]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

stoopid no edit feature in Slow..

that should be the first image.

[Lionelgee]

http://www.p-wholesale.com/upimg/19/66a2/dial-test-indicators-399.jpg

stoopid no edit feature in Slow..

that should be the first image.

G'day Blknight,

Thanks for the photos - got it clear now.

Sorry Incisor for a slight hijack of the thread.

But just as Charlie Brown said - "it is better to ask dumb question than make stupid mistakes" :)

Kind Regards
Lionel

[incisor]

well i am only half as stupid as i was at the start of this thread!

got the passenger side front sorted!

drum was not centric, with 2 separate orbits it appears...

now for the drivers side which appears centric and is fine until you tighten the wheel and it goes tight..

[pop058]

any wear marks on the edges of the shoes or the (inside) bolt up face of the drum ??

[Blknight.aus]

did you put in all of the centering screws.

[incisor]

did you put in all of the centering screws.

There is only one ;-)

[Blknight.aus]

well theres your problem right there....

go get 3 more, there should be one in each drum ;)

[incisor]

the Col and i made some progress this afternoon after the meeting we had to attend and it appears it is a badly made shoe...

[incisor]

and the lord said let there be torment, and there was, for weeks!

and on the seventh day he rested, so while he was not looking i got in and did a few things on the shorty... :D:D:D:D

so very close to being driveable...

would have been tonite but we got visitors :angel:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[incisor]

me and the shorty did a lap round the block to night in low range...

it stopped and started :p

not quite as well as i would have hoped but it went well enough to get me there and back

only game to do one lap as it was a little on the loud side (revved pretty freely tho hehehehe)

[incisor]

very adventuresome tonite..

around the block in high range!

dropped all the gearbox, tansfercase and overdrive lube today and replaced it with havoline 75-90 easy-shift.

will replace again in a couple of months after a few more laps :p

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=48512&stc=1&d=1341045092

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Mate thats all well and good:cool:,,

but can you get someone else to take the pics?:angel::tease:

[incisor]

Mate thats all well and good:cool:,,

but can you get someone else to take the pics?:angel::tease:

what you want from an iphone in the dark :p


no one will come near me in case they get pressed into service!

[Blknight.aus]

nahh, its just you live too far away from everybody.

[incisor]

welp it only took about 10 years but Daddy is finally green :p

trouble is i always said i would rename him when he got his new livery

so i need a new name for the old boy!

my old wagner 300E did the job surprisingly well considering the peanut at the helm...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/119.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/niknodave/7667078792/)
green machine 003 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/niknodave/7667078792/) by NiknoDave (http://www.flickr.com/people/niknodave/), on Flickr

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/120.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/niknodave/7667081252/)
green machine 002 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/niknodave/7667081252/) by NiknoDave (http://www.flickr.com/people/niknodave/), on Flickr

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/121.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/niknodave/7667084058/)
green machine 001 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/niknodave/7667084058/) by NiknoDave (http://www.flickr.com/people/niknodave/), on Flickr


still have to fit the ancillaries such as bridge plate and tac plate holders etc etc

and the we wont mention that the bonnet is still being stripped due to the old yellow paint being stuffed beyond use.

am pretty chuffed it went as well as it did...

now for the name...

[The ho har's]

welp it only took about 10 years but Daddy is finally green :p

trouble is i always said i would rename him when he got his new livery

so i need a new name for the old boy!

my old wagner 300E did the job surprisingly well considering the peanut at the helm...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/119.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/niknodave/7667078792/)
green machine 003 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/niknodave/7667078792/) by NiknoDave (http://www.flickr.com/people/niknodave/), on Flickr

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/120.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/niknodave/7667081252/)
green machine 002 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/niknodave/7667081252/) by NiknoDave (http://www.flickr.com/people/niknodave/), on Flickr

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/121.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/niknodave/7667084058/)
green machine 001 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/niknodave/7667084058/) by NiknoDave (http://www.flickr.com/people/niknodave/), on Flickr


still have to fit the ancillaries such as bridge plate and tac plate holders etc etc

and the we wont mention that the bonnet is still being stripped due to the old yellow paint being stuffed beyond use.

am pretty chuffed it went as well as it did...

now for the name...


I am sure I have posted this a little while ago:confused::);)


anyway...

Chuffed.. you should be

Name.. cloe;)

Taking it to Glenreagh????

Mrs hh:angel:

[incisor]

put some big hours in trying to track down to two major problems with madge

rear brakes.. which were fine for a while and then started squealing and carrying on including getting as hot as hell.

both sides had broken leading shoe springs... grrrrrrrrrrrr

and the other PIA was the carby...

it has a hairline crack in the tube in the center of the throat...

what a mongrel to find and an even bigger mongrel to fix i would imagine.

[incisor]

new carb fixed the problems i was having in that department.

still got rear hub getting way too hot...

smile and the whole world smiles.....:D:mad::mad::mad::mad:

[incisor]

brakes finally sorted and working as they should without getting hot!

off to All British Day on sunday !

what a journey....