Resonating Vibration In 110

[r88inch]

Hi, i have a td5 110 that has a vibration that seems to occur at 30 km/h and then again at 60km/hr. it resonates through the vehicle and causes the front coil springs to vibrate. :mad:

Tasks completed so far:
1. replace entire rear diff
2. replace UJ's in front and rear propshafts and balance
3. replace trailing arm bushes
4. replace radius arm bushes
5. replace front Diff center

when the front prop shaft is removed, vibration disappears.:eek:
Vehicle has 2 inch lift in front.
Vibration appears in all gears at 30 and 60 (not gearbox or engine related)

Short of replacing the entire front axle, what else could it be??

Any advice appreciated!

[Gippslander]

Check uni joints for tight spots or wear also check the angle of the uni joints in situ from memory 3 degrees is optimum and 5 is getting too high. Also check if the uni joints are phased correctly. If you have dismantled the slip joint you may have the uni misaligned, both ends should be the same ie the slip joint solid piece should be lined up to the solid piece of the tail shaft uni and both movable end piece uni nuckles should match. It is hard to explain in words but look at the shaft and make sure the universal crosses are in line and the shaft bits match.
Hope it helps, vibrations are hard to track especially transient ones.
Gippslander

[tomalophicon]

I'd Check the half shafts for wear on both ends.
I had a Defender with severe vibration provblems. I replaced both props and it didn't stop, so replaced 4 axle shafts and it disappeared.

[JDNSW]

Check uni joints for tight spots or wear also check the angle of the uni joints in situ from memory 3 degrees is optimum and 5 is getting too high. Also check if the uni joints are phased correctly. If you have dismantled the slip joint you may have the uni misaligned, both ends should be the same ie the slip joint solid piece should be lined up to the solid piece of the tail shaft uni and both movable end piece uni nuckles should match. It is hard to explain in words but look at the shaft and make sure the universal crosses are in line and the shaft bits match.
Hope it helps, vibrations are hard to track especially transient ones.
Gippslander

I don't think that this is the case with the Defender front shaft, and doing this may be the problem. There should be arrows on the slip joint that show the correct alignment. In theory, there should be a CV joint at the T/C end of the shaft as on the Discovery and RRC since the angles on the two U-joints do not match, but apparently Rover decided they could get away without this on a utility vehicle, and the misphasing minimises the problem. The problem will be exacerbated by the lift.

John

[inside]

OK so I'm going to suggest the obvious and cheap thing to look at. Bonnet hinge bushes.

[goingbush]

I don't think that this is the case with the Defender front shaft, and doing this may be the problem. There should be arrows on the slip joint that show the correct alignment. In theory, there should be a CV joint at the T/C end of the shaft as on the Discovery and RRC since the angles on the two U-joints do not match, but apparently Rover decided they could get away without this on a utility vehicle, and the misphasing minimises the problem. The problem will be exacerbated by the lift.

John

DITTO,

Defender & RRC & Disco front shafts are out of phase,
Shafts should only be in-phase if the Transfer case output flange is parallel to the diff pinion flange, Which most definitely is not on a Defender / RRC because the TC is level & the diff points uphill. I wrote an article on this for the LROCV Review in the 1980's, will see if I can dig it out.

pic below shows 45 deg out of phase per RRC

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/774.jpg

[Gippslander]

That is different having been a mechanic for over forty years i have not come across this before. I admit not having worked on many land rovers except an old series one so this would have surprised me. Normal practice is keep the ends aligned due to the action of a universal joint, in motion it speeds up and down as it changes angle/plane thank you for your insight into the minds of the Land Rover engineers it certainly is different.:eek:

[r88inch]

Thanks everyone, i have been going down this path for the last two months.:mad:

The prop shafts have new UJs, have been balanced, but in phase. We try them out of phase but it only made the vibration worse. I'm still not convinced that this is propshaft related.:angel:

I will try with the original springs back in , but i fear that may stop the resonance, but not the cause of the resonance which worries me.

The Drive shafts have been inspected and seem ok, It may be easier to replace the entire front axle and see if that stops it. At least i'll have then isolated that component. tomalophicon, did you see anything visually wrong with the shafts before you replaced them?

Its not bonnet related, i have two bonnets (one with a wheel on it) and it happens without a bonnet.

Also it happens under acceleration and decceleration (cruising) and when just rolling out of gear.

Is 2 inches too much lift for standard prop\diff angle to cope with?

Thanks

[chook73]

Thanks everyone, i have been going down this path for the last two months.:mad:

The prop shafts have new UJs, have been balanced, but in phase. We try them out of phase but it only made the vibration worse. I'm still not convinced that this is propshaft related.:angel:

I will try with the original springs back in , but i fear that may stop the resonance, but not the cause of the resonance which worries me.

The Drive shafts have been inspected and seem ok, It may be easier to replace the entire front axle and see if that stops it. At least i'll have then isolated that component. tomalophicon, did you see anything visually wrong with the shafts before you replaced them?

Its not bonnet related, i have two bonnets (one with a wheel on it) and it happens without a bonnet.

Also it happens under acceleration and decceleration (cruising) and when just rolling out of gear.

Is 2 inches too much lift for standard prop\diff angle to cope with?

Thanks

Whilst its not a puma it sounds like the exact problem I had when I lifted my suspension 40mm (mine is a puma) and this was solved with a DC Shaft.

[goingbush]

The prop shafts have new UJs, have been balanced, but in phase. We try them out of phase but it only made the vibration worse. I'm still not convinced that this is propshaft related.:angel:



I notice you said propshafts as in plural, Only the front propshaft must be out of phase, The rear is in phase,




Is 2 inches too much lift for standard prop\diff angle to cope with?

Thanks

On a TD5 2" lift should be ok, but on a PUMA 2" lift is too much for the shaft because as well as the diff pointing up, the transfer case also points up, unlike TD5 & earlier where the TC is level. Thats why you need a Double Cardin (DC) front propshaft (amongst other things) if you lift a PUMA.

[r88inch]

sorry, both props have new UJs and been balanced, but only tried the front with out of phase.
I'll try lowering to standard and see how the vibration changes...

Thanks everyone, i'll let you know how it tuens out.:)

[tomalophicon]

Mr 88inch,
My drive shafts were chewed up noticeably.

[tonic]

I inherited a 2" lift when I bought my Deefa. It also has a vibration at some speeds and under load up hill before changing down.

At a recent 4x4 camping show in Brisbane I meet APTFAB. It was suggested to me that I needed new Radius Arms with a 3` change to make up the difference in the angle of the propshaft due to the lift.

I intend getting a set from them once SWMBO is not looking. There are a number of others on the market but I am going local.

[goingbush]

Frankly I would put the standard springs back in it.

When I got my 110 it had 130 fronts & 130 helpers in the back, no disrespect, but it did not suit me or my intended use.

As well as raising the CG , it rode hard when unladen, and on the ramp the Axle Articulation was less than my standard 105 LandCruiser.

I put original 110 springs back in & then it was a little low in the front so I replaced the steel winch cable & rollers with Synthetic rope & Alloy hawse, and removed the heavy Steel steering guard & fitted the original one. Now 110 sits & rides perfect & Axle articulation craps all over the toyota.

I have put Airbags inside the rear springs for when I'm carrying a load or towing.

Now the 110 is perfect for all my purposes, & I don't have to spend a fortune changing all the other parts to make the suspension lift work properly. No good chasing dollars with dollars, I really think the Defender is better than anything else with standard suspension & tyre sizes.

[JDNSW]

That is different having been a mechanic for over forty years i have not come across this before. I admit not having worked on many land rovers except an old series one so this would have surprised me. Normal practice is keep the ends aligned due to the action of a universal joint, in motion it speeds up and down as it changes angle/plane thank you for your insight into the minds of the Land Rover engineers it certainly is different.:eek:

Keeping the ends aligned is correct, but only if both diff and T/C shafts are parallel so that both joints have the same angle. On the coil sprung Landrovers they do not (the diff nose is tilted up to allow the track rod to pass under it), although on leaf sprung landrovers they do. This means that the two universal joints cannot compensate for each other's speed variations. The out of phase setup doesn't either, but apparently it is a bit closer.

John

[r88inch]

OK, put in Disco 2 front springs, (very low and soft) and the vibration has all but disappeared on first glance. I will, however drive it like this for a week, as i am not convinced it is resolved.

Will post results.


(by the way, the cornering has been enhanced by dropping the front, less oversteer!)

[goingbush]

Theres a handy landrover coil comparison chart here

looks like the disco 2 springs are lighter but aren't too far off 110 fronts

http://www.4x4store-exeter.co.uk/catalog/The%204x4%20store%20rr%20ca/RR%20web%20gallery/SPRINGS.HTM

[r88inch]

So i have used the car for three days and i still think the vib is there, just hardly noticable. So i think the taller springs amplify the problem.

Next to try, replacing the axles...

Will let you know.