Some Bling for my Range Rover

[sawtooth4x4]

Got a little performance upgrade for the range rover today! I'm going to be testing this set up out on the 4.6 Thor engine in my Range Rover.

:smokin:

teaser photo

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/540591_10150729381180028_599460027_9678801_1990367 616_n.jpg

[sawtooth4x4]

mmm, pretty

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[PeterH]

What type of coil packs have you got there?
I'll be interested to hear what difference you notice.

[sawtooth4x4]

I thought I'd show some pictures of the parts I got. I've had them in for a few days now. The increase in mid range power is really nice. My intown mileage has gone from 10 mpg to almost 13 according to the onboard computer. Not sure if its really accurate or not. I played off road a little yesterday and noticed on really steep climbs I hardly have to push the throttle down. Its a very nice set up. As with all experimental parts, 4 wires will have to be lenghtend a little bit on the production versions.

This is what I got in the kit. 8-Live Wires (link that explains what they are: Livewires (http://www.performancedistributors.com/livewire.htm)), 2 high performance coil packs, and 8 Autolight double Platinum Spark Plugs gapped to .055, and a tube of dielectric grease.


https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/404978_10150729389395028_599460027_9678818_1788150 084_n.jpg

Here is a quick comparison photo of the old plug wires verses the new ones.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/561320_10150729428780028_599460027_9678885_1796291 834_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/148917_10150729471275028_599460027_9678995_1039984 123_n.jpg

[sawtooth4x4]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/535270_10150729473840028_599460027_9678998_1200799 268_n.jpg

i'll have more pictures later


doing a little reading these coils put out 50000 volts. FAQ's (http://www.performancedistributors.com/faqs.htm)

the stock coils put out 35000 volts http://www.bosch-motorsport.com/pdf/..._coils/2x2.pdf
__________________

[Keithy P38]

Dyno run comparison would be interesting with an extra 15 000 volts!

[BusinessConnected]

I wonder how much of this is just down to New Spark Plugs....

[LavisLane]

Thanks for the post - what was the cost?

[Hoges]

I'd be interested to see what the engine bay looked like in the dark... the potential ( :angel:) for crossfire I'd have thought would be significant unless all leads were scrupulously clean and well spaced...

[p38arover]

I wonder how much of this is just down to New Spark Plugs....

Me, too. I always think Placebo Effect.

[p38arover]

I take it from other posts you have made on other fora that you are a tester for this unit. I also assume it was a freebie or at a very reduced price.

If so, then that should have been disclosed.

[Hoges]

Other than in refined engines where one is eeking out marginal incremental improvements to get a slight edge I am struggling to see how merely upping the voltage and slightly expanding the plug gap can bring significant improvements over a well maintained standard setup without also doing something about the overall engine mapping.

Before one claims an "X%" power improvement, one needs to set a baseline equivalent to the original properly functioning design spec. The seat-of-the-pants dyno is no substitute here for proper measurement...as RonP38arover says.. beware the placebo effect...

[glenhendry]

I agree, the only way that this could improve performance would be to have the newer bigger spark ignite cylinder gasses more completely or ignite them when they otherwise were failing to.

If a 'miss' existed, we wouldnt have a smooth engine and if full combustion wasnt being achieved then O2 sensors would scream out?

I am not sure that bigger spark is better. But Id be happy to listen on to someone more learned explaining why I am wrong.

[p38oncoils]

I agree, the only way that this could improve performance would be to have the newer bigger spark ignite cylinder gasses more completely or ignite them when they otherwise were failing to.

If a 'miss' existed, we wouldnt have a smooth engine and if full combustion wasnt being achieved then O2 sensors would scream out?

I am not sure that bigger spark is better. But Id be happy to listen on to someone more learned explaining why I am wrong.
glenhendry and Hoges, you are absolutely correct. There is no improvement in performance by installing a higher voltage ignition coil - unless the old ignition coils are faulty - and then you would get the same improvement by replacing them with standard units. The same applies to ignition leads.

[sawtooth4x4]

my range rover is kept in very good shape. i maintain it and spend a lot of money on it to keep it in good shape. no miss fires, i just replaced a faulty coil a month ago. the spark plugs were replaced less then a year ago. all plug wire are in good shape.

I'm under no contract to sell these or advertise. just thought a few people would like to see some upgrades, instead of the usual old boring my vehicle is broken threads.

Higher voltage will create a better burn of the fuel. If not so, why are we not all just running the old cap and rotors with a single coil? Why are most vehicles now coil on plug? Because stronger ignition power provides more power in the engine, more complete fuel burning as well.

snake oil or not, i've tried all kinds of different additions to make power. other then adding a cam or turbo, this is an easy power adder. it works. i'm impressed.

the plug wires are twice as thick as the old ones, and the plugs are now set at .055" from the old .045" stock setting.

the old coils are rated at 35kV

the new ones are rated at 50kV

wonder why there is a difference? hmmmm?

so far i have about 500 miles on the set up. no problems at all. I do carry my stock coils and plug wires just in case this does not work or fails me while on a trip. its very nice to have an extra set on board as spares.

this is a simple bolt on upgrade. there isn't anything else out there as far as i know. no chips, very hard to get a cam or blower. diesels are not easy to get easier either.

[sawtooth4x4]

Yes, I am a test mule for the product. I'm not selling it personally. I got it for free. I'm not sure why they chose me, but I have a lot of mechanical skill and I usually leave my engines stock. I do not usually add stuff like this and would not normally pay for it. I usually think of it as snake oil.

This has real results. Real power and my fuel economy has increased since the install. i was getting 12 mpg now i'm getting 14.5mpg. Thats with oversized tires, heavy as hell wheels, and carrying lots of gear.

sorry i did not update this on here. i forgot about it.

[RR P38]

Most certainly at higher engine speeds having a higher voltage coil will increase engine performance.
Above 3000rpm coil saturation (dwell) may see voltage at the plug drop by 30% or more.
Some manufacturers us 2 spark plugs, why? more spark?
Its pretty reasonable to assume that more is better. I guess in 1994-5 when the P38 ignition system was designed 30,000 volts was produced with a coil that cost a "reasonable" amount of money that reflected Land rovers cost envelope. Perhaps in 2012 we can build a coil that makes 50,000volts for less $s.
You may get stray sparks with a system that is designed insulation wise to deal with a lower voltage.
Im pretty sure many manufacturers are using systems that are in excess of 60,000 volts these days.

[DT-P38]

Yes, I am a test mule for the product. I'm not selling it personally. I got it for free. I'm not sure why they chose me, but I have a lot of mechanical skill and I usually leave my engines stock. I do not usually add stuff like this and would not normally pay for it. I usually think of it as snake oil.

This has real results. Real power and my fuel economy has increased since the install. i was getting 12 mpg now i'm getting 14.5mpg. Thats with oversized tires, heavy as hell wheels, and carrying lots of gear.

sorry i did not update this on here. i forgot about it.

Simple dilemma to resolve. Dyno it with them on then swap the set up out for your standard kit and post the variation. You have considerable mechanical skills so you will be able to get hold of a dyno easy enough!

If it improves power and economy for a reasonable cost I would be VERY interested... assuming you get a heap if km's on your "test mule" beasty and the set up doesn't kill or injure it!

Anyone know any likely/possible side effects of this sort of change?

[Keithy P38]

It's the first modification I made to my 383 chev, bigger plug leads and higher voltage coil! Reason? It works! 25hp on a 450hp motor!

[sawtooth4x4]

there won't be any dyno tests done by me. sorry. i'm not wasting money on that and there isn't any dyno within 500 miles of me that can fit a range rover on it.

[DT-P38]

$'s ?

[sawtooth4x4]

I'm not sure of the price I didn't design these and I do not sell them. I'll be testing them for awhile before they will be for sale. This is a very reputable company.

Just went on a 300+ mile trip and averaged 15.5 mpg. I'm up another 1 mpg. I think the adaptive values in the computer are learning the new ignition upgrades. Hopefully with a few more trips it'll get even better.

[Hoges]

I'm not sure of the price I didn't design these and I do not sell them. I'll be testing them for awhile before they will be for sale. This is a very reputable company.

Just went on a 300+ mile trip and averaged 15.5 mpg. I'm up another 1 mpg. I think the adaptive values in the computer are learning the new ignition upgrades. Hopefully with a few more trips it'll get even better.

need to do the trip with the old system in place ... similar speed, driving style, weather conditions, load etc etc... then compare. 1mpg at 14-16 mpg is between approx 6-7% improvement...probably well within the error margin of the "test".... If you drove efficiently / economically with the original coils/plugs you could probably do better than that... just a thought:angel:

[p38arover]

On trips I regularly get between 13 and 15 litres/100km. That equals 18.5 - 15.7 mpg (US). That's using fill-up data, not just the on-board metering.

[DT-P38]

I actually hate looking at my "onboard computer milage read outs.

[DT-P38]

Stupid iPhone... I hate looking because it often tells me 23+ L/100km's. Around town with 33' muddies on but still Horrible! Best with same Tyres is 18 on the highway at cruising 100km/h.
I would Love some of the figures you guys get!

[sawtooth4x4]

I was getting 12 mpg going this route before. My in laws live in Wyoming where we drove to. We go about once a month.

The gas sucks around here everything has 10% ethanol in it so I get worse gas mileage with this crappy fuel. I can't get non ethanol gas anywhere but down in Wyoming. Ethenal is supposed to be 10% less efficient.

[DT-P38]

12? WTF?

[sawtooth4x4]

Lift tires, roof rack, couple hundred pounds of tools and equipment, grill guard, winch. Oversized heavy load range e tires.

Before all the mods I used to get 19 on the highway.

[Hoges]

12? WTF?

DT-P38 ....That's 12 miles/US gallon ... equals 14 mpg (imperial).. or 20L/100 km.:angel:

[p38arover]

20 litres/100km is OK around town.

[BusinessConnected]

I just replaced my Ignition Leads (which consisted of 6 x ~60,000km old leads and 2 x 150,000km old leads) with a New Set of Magnecor 8mm "Sports" Wire.

This has resulted in a noticable improvement in idle & throttle response.
I'm just reporting this as an additional note when it comes to either "New Coils" or Ignition Setup.

Moral of the story is although its working, sometimes it can work better.

[Hoges]

Are the Magnecor wires cut more generously to allow for better separation than the OEM?

[clubagreenie]

Yes, and their 8mm wires are great. Even the 7mm are better than anything off the shelf.