L322 Dead Battery?

[Grover-98]

After returning from a 10 Cruise... all i wanted was to take the Range Rover for a drive... HOWEVER

Whilst i was away my father ran the car after 5 days for a 20km drive to maintain the battery then after another 3 days the vehicle would not start. It then sat dormant for 4 days therefore equaling a full week where it was not started.

After returning i have began my investigation into what the problem could be it shows the battery as low as 11.63 on the multimeter however when hooked up to a doner vehicle (using the correct procedure) it charged up for 20minutes then showing 13.30 with the doner vehicle still charging the Range Rover... this still failed to start the Range Rover.

After charging and with all leads removed (using the correct procedure) the battery shows 12.03 and still fails to start.

TWO warnings have displayed themselves on the fault screen:

1. Key Fob battery Low (this appeared once) however the key still unlocks the car and the spare key (key to create a copy) also doesn't start the car.

2. Pre-Heating has displayed itself several times.

When the key is turned to start the motor there is a click as the starter motor solenoid gets power however the starter motor doesn't crank over.

If you have read all of this i appreciate your time! i have tried to include as much information as i can think of... and i hope someone is able to lead me in the right direction :)

Kind Regards, James.

[Homestar]

Hi James, have you measured the voltage when you try to crank it? Just wondering if the volts are dropping right off under the load. How old is the battery in it? It may have been on its last legs, and leavng it for a few days tipped it over the edge.

[Grover-98]

The multimeter shows as low at 10.00 when the key is turned to attempt the starting process... :(

Also within the last hour since the car was charged and showing 12.03 (which may have been a misleading representation due to the battery only JUST being charged) it now shows 11.39... :(

After a quick look and some assumptions the battery appears to be the original... So this could very easily be the cause of these issues... Is it possible to replace the battery yourself? or will the "Explosives" cause to much of a safety risk?

It also seems strange that even with power from a doner vehicle and reading 13.30 that the car will not crank over?

James.

[Laurie]

James
Just a thought ! have you tried to start it in neutral ? it may also be the inhibitor switches are playing up. Though the low battery volts reading are more likely to be the cause.

[Homestar]

Sounds like it is shagged. Easy to replace yourself. You will need to put the bonnet up to its top access position to get to it. Simply disconnect it - negative first, then the positive, and put the new one in reverse order - pos first, then neg. Turn the ignition on, then you will need to turn the steering wheel from lock to lock and you should be sorted.:)

Not really suprising you can't jump start it, unless you have a very large donor battery and a really good set of jumper leads - not the crap you get from most places - you simply won't get the grunt across. You may see plenty of volts, but remember you need enough current not only to crank the engine, but the dead battery will also be dragging current and competing against the starter. It is not as easy as you think to jump a car with a stuffed battery.

Cheers - Gav

[Grover-98]

James
Just a thought ! have you tried to start it in neutral ? it may also be the inhibitor switches are playing up. Though the low battery volts reading are more likely to be the cause.

I have tried to start it in Neutral as well and this was unsuccessful also... I will replace the battery in the car and the Fob and hope for the best! :angel:

James.

[Grover-98]

Sounds like it is shagged. Easy to replace yourself. You will need to put the bonnet up to its top access position to get to it. Simply disconnect it - negative first, then the positive, and put the new one in reverse order - pos first, then neg. Turn the ignition on, then you will need to turn the steering wheel from lock to lock and you should be sorted.:)

Cheers - Gav


Thanks for your advice Gav!

Now i just have to get the time to get to a battery place during the week... as they are all closed due to it being Sunday and i am working days this week which will make it difficult :(

Cheers, James.

[33chinacars]

As we all should know RR are very battiery hungery so a battery that is even a little down will cause all sorts of problems. If in dought replace it. As Gavin has said.

Gary

[Summiitt]

I left my key in and the radio on last Sunday, whilst fitting up one of those genuine rubber nudge bars to my td6, went to start it in the arvo and the key wouldn't turn, then noticed the interior lights were dim, volts had dropped to 10.6v. I jump started it, ran it for a half hour and it's started good as gold all week,I took it in to get the battery load tested and it was still fine but now I pull the key out of the ignition as it seems to draw quite a lot of current out just on the acc mode? But get your bat tested and bin it if in doubt.

[RangieBit]

Ummm,

did nobody notice one of those errors was a KEY FOB BATTERY error?

While it may be a spurious error due to low voltage issues it might also be a valid fault.

Yes, I'll admit to agreeing with consensus here that the probable culprit is a dead or dying battery but you'll never get the car to start if that little RFID chip in the key fob isn't powered and synching well with the cars security ECU.

Try replacing the battery in the key fob and see if you have more success.

I am also with Gav and Gary on this point and suggest you get a new main battery promptly. The battery should not drain so significantly over half an hour if it's in good shape. A fast discharge profile is usually a very good indicator of a dying battery.

Just my 5c worth.

Cheers,
Iain

[JarrahJack]

but you'll never get the car to start if that little RFID chip in the key fob isn't powered and synching well with the cars security ECU.

I am fairly sure that the RFID chip in the key is independent of the key battery. It is more like the chips that pets have implanted, or in access cards. I have even heard of owners taking out the RFID chip and taping it near the ignition switch behind the trim to allow starting with cut keys.

Jack

TD6 Perth

[Homestar]

I have even heard of owners taking out the RFID chip and taping it near the ignition switch behind the trim to allow starting with cut keys.

Jack

TD6 Perth

Yep, that works. I tried it to find out, I only have one key and thought I'd give it a go, but couldn't bring myself to leave it like that... It makes them very easy to steal... You do need to get the RFID chip fairly close though.:)

[RangieBit]

Yep,

Ok Guys. Mea Culpa. It's a misnomer on my part for the RFID chip thing. My understanding, which admittedly could be very flawed, is that its a combination of both the chip and a rolling code that gets you over the start line. Seems this may not be the case after all if just the chip and a key blank will start the car. Something not right about that to my mind though!

So yes, the chip isn't powered. You do need some grunt in the key fob though or the rest doesn't happen.

Anyhoo, as previously stated I don't really think this is the problem (the real problem seems to be the starting battery) but it might not be helping the cause.

Cheers,
Iain

[PAT303]

James,the battery is original and it's due for a change,it is 9 years old,change the key fob battery with a original Phillips from Dick Smith,I changed the fob battery 3 years ago after it done the same thing.The fob batteries are $7. Pat

[Grover-98]

OK.... So now i am concerned,

I have replaced both Batteries and had NO success... A warning comes up saying "Pre-Heating" When i try to start it but not every time... ;)

What Fuses should i be checking to see if there is a problem along the line somewhere? :(

It also started showing "AirSusp-Inactive"

Desperate Regards, James.

[Grover-98]

Time for a recap...

My 2003 Td6 Range Rover will not start it goes through all the usual processes when the key is inserted however when the key is turned to fire the engine up there is nothing other then a click.

The starter motor doesn't try to kick over at all. This all started suddenly whilst i was away. I have replaced the Main Battery as well as the battery in the Key to no success :(

Other common problems which i have been reading about include the following;

1. Starter Motor
2. Positive Terminal
3. Crank Sensor
4. Starter inhibitor

I have tried starting the vehicle in Park and Neutral both of which have not worked.

Faults which have been showing include "Airsusp-Inactive" and "Pre-Heating"

Also on the last attempt to start the car the clock spun around and went to 12:00... Is this some form of lockout? As it seems to show a little clock in the service area on the dash and counts away...

It is very painful having my dream car just sit there whilst i drive the Disco... :(

[RangieBit]

Hmmm,

'tis indeed problematic James.

Now for the first few faults/messages. If you have replaced the main battery but not reset the steering angle sensor then you will continue to get this message in the information centre. The SAS needs to be reset every time the main power source has been disconnected (or after a non-scheduled power loss). This is simple process that basically involves moving the steering from centred then lock to lock and back to centre before driving. I con't recall offhand if you need the engine running but i suspect without the PAS this process would be very hard. Short answer, ignore this message for the moment.

The Pre-heating message usually only comes on if it is exceptionally cold wherever you tried starting the car (think alpine mid-winter cold). It comes on to warn you not to attempt to start the car yet since the usual (almost instantaneous) glow plug sequence hasn't heated the area enough - yet. it will normally only happen the very first time since the second time the normal sequence is usually enough, especially if the engine ran. It can also come on if the amount of power going to the glow plug circuit is low and therefore more time is required to generate the same heat energy.

The above in combination with the clock reverting to midday suggests to me you have an abnormal power drain. The clock will reset to zero whenever you disconnect the battery or draw enough power during start to make the voltage drop below the threshold for keeping the time and other ecu settings active.

I can vouch from personal experience that this sort of reset because of voltage drops can be a side-effect of a rapidly dying battery. This shouldn't be your problem as you've just replaced it. Still if there is a short somewhere you may have inadvertently killed the new one. Don't panic - highly unlikely - just mentioning all the possibilities that occur to me.

So it could be a starter problem. Do you notice anything else current/voltage related during your attempts to start? Do the interior lights dim during start attempts, for example?

Hard to diagnose at a distance. Definitely plugging in some sort of diagnostic tool would be beneficial if there is someone nearby who can help out with that.

Keep us posted.

Iain

[Grover-98]

When i attempt to start the car every time the clock resets itself now... And i just tried it with the lights on they don't dim however when the key is first turned to try and start the car there is a noise of what sounds like a relay under the bonnet and the light turn off briefly then back on.

I was just on the phone to a friend who works at All4x4 in at Kotara and he informs me that aftermarket batteries simply don't cut it. My new Battery reads 12.25 and he tells me they wont start with anything under 12.7 is this true?

Have any of you been successful with an aftermarket battery?

He also said that when the battery is changed the computer needs to be reset... however others on here have successfully changed the battery themselves?

James.

[RangieBit]

Hi again James,

Not sure about the 12.7V thing. My old battery (the one I replaced last year) had a reading of a little under 12V (about 11.8 I vaguely recall) at one stage and this managed to start the car, if only just. My replacement battery is an Amaron silver-calcium jobby that matched the original battery spec.

The voltage itself is a good beginning but what is important in a battery for starting (particularly a diesel) is the CCA rating. This is the output that the battery can sustain during starting operations. I think the spec for the L322 suggests a CCA of 750A or better, with a RC rating of 160 or better. The CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) rating gives an indication of the amount of power the battery can deliver under stress (such as starting) while the RC (Reserve Capacity) gives an indication of how long the battery can maintain a constant moderate load (such as running all the ECU's and devices in a modern car).

I think the minimum spec is about a DIN90 battery, with a DIN120 battery preferred. I'm sure that the battery you have measures up to the specification levels.

As to needing to reset the computers, I am not sure what your friend is talking about here. If he means that all the ECUs need to be reset after replacement of a main battery then that is not the case. My battery was removed and replaced without even having to recode the radio (though I did have to reset the clock). I did get the "Air Susp Inactive" message but as indicated previously this is a known situation and was an easy fix anyway.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Iain

[Grover-98]

I think the minimum spec is about a DIN90 battery, with a DIN120 battery preferred. I'm sure that the battery you have measures up to the specification levels.


I have been sold a DIN88 Battery, this maybe the issue however i will look at the Battery tomorrow morning first thing and check the CCA and RC of the Battery...

After looking at the battery i think i may have been sold the wrong item, it shows only to be a 80ah battery with a CCA of just 650...

Perhaps the battery i have been sold just isn't up to spec hence the clock resetting as the battery drops when under stress trying to start the vehicle?

However the fact that the car doesn't attempt to crank over still concerns me :(...

James.

[Laurie]

James
I don't know if you have already checked this !!!
I thought I had a bad battery on my D2 Td5 when it wouldn't kick over properly to start., all things pointed to the battery, lights dim when starting etc. After talking to a mate who is an Auto Electrician we checked the battery and found it was good condition , he said check "the Earths from the battery." Sure enough the bolt on the chassis cable was loose.

[Grover-98]

All the wires in view appear to be ok...

It now beeps at me when i try to start it... not sure what that is about, however i am taking the flat battery i was sold back as it is useless and buying a battery which better suits the requirements tomorrow... if it still will not start i have a mate bringing out a diagnostics tool.

Does anyone know is the "Scanguage" is suitable for the L322?

I have also tried hitting the starter motor/spraying it with WD/40... I sure will be relieved when all this is sorted! :(

[Laurie]

James
Have got this problem sorted yet ? If so what was the problem?: It would be good put with problems and solutions folder I keep just in case.

Laurie

[Grover-98]

James
Have got this problem sorted yet ? If so what was the problem?: It would be good put with problems and solutions folder I keep just in case.

Laurie

Laurie i have been meaning to post the results of this issue so thank you for putting me into gear! :)

It turned out to be a VERY simple problem! it was simply a bad earth on the battery! The terminal was not clamping hard onto the terminal. This has since been rectified for a total cost of $0 :D

Kind Regards, James.

[Laurie]

James
That is good news. I think we all have been stumped by something that turned out was simple and missed in basic checks. Mine was a slow gearbox leak, it turned out to be leaking past a bolt not the box :blush: 2 years.

Laurie

[Daniel]

I have been sold a DIN88 Battery, this maybe the issue however i will look at the Battery tomorrow morning first thing and check the CCA and RC of the Battery...

After looking at the battery i think i may have been sold the wrong item, it shows only to be a 80ah battery with a CCA of just 650...

Perhaps the battery i have been sold just isn't up to spec hence the clock resetting as the battery drops when under stress trying to start the vehicle?

However the fact that the car doesn't attempt to crank over still concerns me :(...

James.


Hunter LR dealer is notorius for selling Century batteries that are not suitable for L322 RRs. Century do not even list a suitable model battery for thr td6 L322 RR..
The safest way and most cost efficient is to visit Alto Sydney and get a genuine LR battery. My factory new original 2005 td6 battery lasted just over 6 years. It is a DIN 120 Varta battery and the replacement is identical.

[RangieBit]

... Century do not even list a suitable model battery for thr td6 L322 RR...


Actually they do.

the Century Battery site link is here (http://www.centurybatteries.com.au/search/index.php/batteries/ID-7-1721)

It's a DIN75LMF battery which is inadequate according to Land Rover but the specs are pretty close to the originals.

These L322 beasts get more electrically hungry by the year so bigger is better (provided it will fit).

I'm with going for the DIN120 battery where possible.

Cheers,
Iain

[Homestar]

Actually they do.

the Century Battery site link is here (http://www.centurybatteries.com.au/search/index.php/batteries/ID-7-1721)

It's a DIN75LMF battery which is inadequate according to Land Rover but the specs are pretty close to the originals.

These L322 beasts get more electrically hungry by the year so bigger is better (provided it will fit).

I'm with going for the DIN120 battery where possible.

Cheers,
Iain

That is close to minimum spec, but a bit short I think. Minimum spec is 750CCA, that one is 730. I would go at least 900CCA with a replacement - there are a few options.

Edit - Deka 695RMF (850CCA) Also, Deca 9AGM95R (950CCA) will work. Not sure of prices - the AGM version would be a few $ dearer no doubt, but I wouldn't cut corners with batteries in these. Also, there is a Delkor unit that comes in at about 850CCA I think as well.

[Daniel]

I researched all of this extensively at the time my '05 td6 battery finally went dead in late 2011.

The only LR spec battery available in Australia (at the time) was genuine LR via their Melbourne parts warehouse. Even more interestingly it was cheaper then other brand equivalents that were not to spec (only DIN 90).

Century's DIN 75 models are not adequate for the job although they may last a year or two when you compare that to the genuine LR Varta battery lasting 6 years it is very false economy and at risk of being stranded not even worth considering.

The original LR factory battery is a Varta DIN120 with specs of 110 Ah and 850CCA.

[33chinacars]

Had a quote today for a genuine LR battery for my TD6 from a LR dealer. $400. 110 Ah & ??? CCA. How does this compare to what others have been Quoted

Gary

[Daniel]

Had a quote today for a genuine LR battery for my TD6 from a LR dealer. $400. 110 Ah & ??? CCA. How does this compare to what others have been Quoted

Gary

Trade price in January 2012 was $360 + GST.
Retail was around $440 + GST.
It should be the white poly cased Varta battery.
I can get the part number off my invoice if you like.

[33chinacars]

Thanks Daniel. so looks like a good price then

Gary

[Daniel]

I've checked and can report -

my 2005 L322 td6 has a white LR battery - 850 cca 110 ah 205 RC (DIN 120)
my 2007 L322 tdv8 has a black LR battery - 950 cca 90 ah 150 RC (DIN 90)

The tdv8 has extra ECUs in the battery bay making the DIN90 the largest that can be fitted. Obviously this is a compromise as it does not take long to flatten the battery when undertaking diagnosis wil key in position 2.

[RangieBit]

That's useful info Daniel.

Seems that the info on the Century site may be correct after all for the current models (DIN 90).

Though I'm still rather dubious about the CCA rating for the battery they suggest. My feeling is that you can never have enough amps when trying to start a large-ish diesel.

Cheers,
Iain

[Daniel]

That's useful info Daniel.

Seems that the info on the Century site may be correct after all for the current models (DIN 90).

Though I'm still rather dubious about the CCA rating for the battery they suggest. My feeling is that you can never have enough amps when trying to start a large-ish diesel.

Cheers,
Iain

Yes although a v8 is a lot easier to start than a 6 which in turn is a lot easier to start than a 4.

I haven't looked into the Evoque to see how the start on demand etd4 works?
They say that it is hardly noticeable when taking off from the lights!

[tassiedisco]

Hi again James,

Not sure about the 12.7V thing. My old battery (the one I replaced last year) had a reading of a little under 12V (about 11.8 I vaguely recall) at one stage and this managed to start the car, if only just. My replacement battery is an Amaron silver-calcium jobby that matched the original battery spec.

The voltage itself is a good beginning but what is important in a battery for starting (particularly a diesel) is the CCA rating. This is the output that the battery can sustain during starting operations. I think the spec for the L322 suggests a CCA of 750A or better, with a RC rating of 160 or better. The CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) rating gives an indication of the amount of power the battery can deliver under stress (such as starting) while the RC (Reserve Capacity) gives an indication of how long the battery can maintain a constant moderate load (such as running all the ECU's and devices in a modern car).

I think the minimum spec is about a DIN90 battery, with a DIN120 battery preferred. I'm sure that the battery you have measures up to the specification levels.

As to needing to reset the computers, I am not sure what your friend is talking about here. If he means that all the ECUs need to be reset after replacement of a main battery then that is not the case. My battery was removed and replaced without even having to recode the radio (though I did have to reset the clock). I did get the "Air Susp Inactive" message but as indicated previously this is a known situation and was an easy fix anyway.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Iain
G'day. (Don't be fooled by my username...I now have an L322 TD6.) You mention that the "Air susp inactive" message is an "easy fix". My RR has this error message and the suspension seems to be stuck on max. height. The car still drives perfectly and there doesn't seem to be any other problems. What's the "easy fix"?