Defender Puma Track And After Market Wheels

[4wheeler]

Help Please,
I have purchased some after market wheels and fitted these to my Defender Puma in the belief that they are legal. They are plus 10 offset.

In Victoria we apparently can increase front track by 25 mm and rear by 50mm on beam axles. Normal Boost wheel offset is +33mm so my track increase on the front seems to be 20mm too wide overall (1532mm). There is a question though.
In the catalogues, wheel track for 110 is 1486mm for Boost alloys or 1511mm for heavy duty steel option or sawtooth wheels. For 130 HCPU or cab chassis it is published as 1511mm. In other words as I read it, the published track is therefore 1511 so can I legally go 25 wider on that to 1536mm? If I can my vehicle is legal again. If I owned a 130 they would be legal (reading the brochures) as that is the published track for the vehicle. I don't want to have insurance problems in the event of an accident, but the wheels were not cheap so I want to keep them if I can.
Any advice or thoughts appreciated.
Thanks

[CJT]

I believe it should be a 50mm increase in will track for solid axle 4wd's, the 25mm track increase should apply to vehicles with Independant Suspension.

Also, the track increase should be above the maximum manufacturers wheel track from my understanding, therefore if you are under 1511mm + 50mm you should be fine.

[Drover]

Since when is wheel track determined by the wheels a vehicle uses ?
To the best of understanding it the distance between the mounting surfaces (Disk to Disk)....

[CJT]

Wheel track is classified as centre of tyre / wheel to centre of opposite tyre / wheel.

That is why a rims offset alters the vehicles wheel track.

[MTB]

...1486mm for Boost alloys or 1511mm for heavy duty steel option or sawtooth wheels.


I thought I had read somewhere that Boost Alloys and Sawtooth had the same offset :confused:

[4wheeler]

I thought I had read somewhere that Boost Alloys and Sawtooth had the same offset :confused:

I will reply to all comments so far if that is O.K.

MTB,
They might be but I am only going on the small writing in the 2012 Defender brochure.

Drover,
The wheel track is to the centre of the wheel as per comments from CJT. If this was not the case then wheel track would never be changed by fitting different offset wheels as the axle length to mounting face is fixed unless you fitted spacers which is illegal or cut the axle.
Altering the offset of the wheel moves the wheel in and out as you have poined out elsewhere. This changes the wheel track.

CJT,
I think the QLD regulations are different to Victoria. In Vic., beam axle is not mentioned for the front axle. Only the rear which is 50mm increase. If QLD information is current, they had specified 50mm front and rear for beam axles. My Defender is way better on +10mm offset as turning circle seems better.

I am getting the Defender serviced so I will see what Land Rover Service say.

Thanks for all the help.

Regards,
4 Wheeler

[TheTinnie]

increasing track width worsens the turning circle. did u adjust ur steering lock, that may be the reason it feels better?

[Scouse]

increasing track width worsens the turning circle. did u adjust ur steering lock, that may be the reason it feels better?It should make it better as the tyre is further away from the radius arm so it can move in a greater arc.

[4wheeler]

increasing track width worsens the turning circle. did u adjust ur steering lock, that may be the reason it feels better?

I have not adjusted the stops although I could. It could just be my imagination though about the better turning circle.

Wheels are still on. Discussed the wheel offset with my LR dealer who contacted Land Rover. They put offset variations for 110 on my service documents and they felt the wheels were compliant based on this.

I have had the information about wheel type, offset etc added to the insurance and it has not been knocked back at this stage, one month after the endorsement so I hope all will be o.k.

After having driven 4500km in two weeks on some very wet tracks the plus 10 offset and slightly wider tyres means the Defender gets coated in mud which makes getting in and out awkward and your hands get filthy trying to get in the vehicle. Paintwork could become an issue as well. Yes, I know I am a bit of a whimp.

The other problem I had was that in sticky mud at slow speed, the mud would fall off and drop into the now unprotected disc brakes, especially the front. Any stones would then jam in the disc/cover and grind away. Now that was a pain. I have never ever had that happen before on any other 4x4 I have owned but that could be down to luck.

[chuck]

Pictures ???

[4wheeler]

Pictures ???

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/06/350.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/06/351.jpg

[Drover]

Very nice looking wheels, I like them.
As far as off set goes, they look fine, I wouldn't give them another thought.

Iam running 8" with a neutal off set, the stick out about 1" further than yours.

[chuck]

Very Nice!!

What brand are they?

They do not look to stick out at all - I would not worry to much about the track.

I doubt if they have increase your track more than 50mm.


Cheers

[Symo]

Great looking rims. What size are they and where I'd you get them?

[4wheeler]

Very nice looking wheels, I like them.
As far as off set goes, they look fine, I wouldn't give them another thought.

Iam running 8" with a neutal off set, the stick out about 1" further than yours.

Hi Drover,
Thanks for your comments.
At this stage I have not had any problems at full articulation. When I lift it up with some new suspension that will be of even less concern.

I do get em dirty as well.


48185

48186

[4wheeler]

Great looking rims. What size are they and where I'd you get them?
Symo,
They are Terrafirma 7 X 16 with +10mm offset rims and can be purchased from Rovacraft and other site advertisers. I found this out after importing mine form England from Devon 4X4 and Frogs Island 4x4. Both great to deal with. Only took a week to get here from both organisations. They are beadlock capable where you purchase an outer beadlock ring and bolt the tyre to the outer front of the rim at which point they become 16 X 8 rims and illegal for road use. I am not using the beadlock and they cost a mint!

They are available in white, black and the colour I have, anthracite (dark grey). They were a bit of a problem to get balanced but on the third go they were right.

[Symo]

Symo,
They are beadlock capable where you purchase an outer beadlock ring and bolt the tyre to the outer front of the rim at which point they become 16 X 8 rims and illegal for road use.

They are nice looking rims but I want to run 12.5" 33,s so I need 8 inch wide rims, will see what terra firma have, maybe me thing that fits....

Nice looking rims though. :)

[n plus one]

Symo,
They are Terrafirma 7 X 16 with +10mm offset rims and can be purchased from Rovacraft and other site advertisers. I found this out after importing mine form England from Devon 4X4 and Frogs Island 4x4. Both great to deal with. Only took a week to get here from both organisations. They are beadlock capable where you purchase an outer beadlock ring and bolt the tyre to the outer front of the rim at which point they become 16 X 8 rims and illegal for road use. I am not using the beadlock and they cost a mint!

They are available in white, black and the colour I have, anthracite (dark grey). They were a bit of a problem to get balanced but on the third go they were right.

These are great looking wheel (love the ability to retro fit beadlocks too) but I'm a little confused about the Terrafirma's site's description of their offset and was hoping you can clarify?

Standard Boost mags are 16X7 +33mm offset, Terrafirma says these wheels are +20mm offset (presumably in their 7 inch configuration).

This would increase track by 26mm overall - which is as near as dammit to the maximum you can increase your track in NSW (25mm) - hence my interest.

The beadlocks would increase this by 12.5mm a side - going way beyond what you can do here in NSW but I don't care about that as I either wouldn't use them or would only use them under closed course conditions ;)

The Terrafirma site then goes on to say that they increase track by 40mm, which makes me think they've been hitting the sauce during work hours :wasntme:or aren't talking about track like the RTA, other road authorities do (i.e. center of the tyre to centre of the tyre)but instead are just talking about how much wider the vehicle is overall.

I think you said they wheels are +10mm offset? I was wondering if you could confirm is this is the case and also whether you mean with the beadlocks or without?

[4wheeler]

These are great looking wheel (love the ability to retro fit beadlocks too) but I'm a little confused about the Terrafirma's site's description of their offset and was hoping you can clarify?

Standard Boost mags are 16X7 +33mm offset, Terrafirma says these wheels are +20mm offset (presumably in their 7 inch configuration).

This would increase track by 26mm overall - which is as near as dammit to the maximum you can increase your track in NSW (25mm) - hence my interest.

The beadlocks would increase this by 12.5mm a side - going way beyond what you can do here in NSW but I don't care about that as I either wouldn't use them or would only use them under closed course conditions ;)

The Terrafirma site then goes on to say that they increase track by 40mm, which makes me think they've been hitting the sauce during work hours :wasntme:or aren't talking about track like the RTA, other road authorities do (i.e. center of the tyre to centre of the tyre)but instead are just talking about how much wider the vehicle is overall.

I think you said they wheels are +10mm offset? I was wondering if you could confirm is this is the case and also whether you mean with the beadlocks or without?

Hi N Plus One,
You are right about the site and it's information. I originally purchased the wheels based on this information on their site. When they arrived from the U.K. I discovered that they were in fact +10 mm offset or ET 10 as indicated on the boxes for each wheel. A few emails to the suppliers in U.K. did infact confirm that they are +10mm offset. One suppler said that they had information from the manufacturer that they have always been +10 and that the Terrafirma site's information causes confusion. I think what they might mean is that the wheel is stepped out 20 mm more than the general standard wheel i.e. a +33 offset plus 20mm is roughly +10mm. Most sellers of the wheel have relied on the info from Terrafirma which does not give a correct indication. Devon 4x4 have corrected the information on their store to reflect the fact that they are ET 10 (+10mm offset). The offset in this case is with no beadlock fitted. It is marked ET 10 on the wheel. From standard, based on +33, the track is increased by 46mm based on ET 10 offset.

But bear in mind that the heavy duty steel wheels sold on 130's and on some 110's are +20mm standard offset hence track increase is then only 20mm for these. Because of this standard variation on standard wheel supplied on Defenders and the information supplied to me from the dealer that I believe they are legal but I am no expert on these matters so everyone will have to make their own conclusions in their own case. I have made genuine enquiries, even trying contacting a few vehicle engineers. Unfortunately these could not be bothered to get back to me. Insurance companies might disagree.

If people purchase them they do so at their own risk.

I hope this helps.

[n plus one]

Hi N Plus One,
You are right about the site and it's information. I originally purchased the wheels based on this information on their site. When they arrived from the U.K. I discovered that they were in fact +10 mm offset or ET 10 as indicated on the boxes for each wheel. A few emails to the suppliers in U.K. did infact confirm that they are +10mm offset. One suppler said that they had information from the manufacturer that they have always been +10 and that the Terrafirma site's information causes confusion. I think what they might mean is that the wheel is stepped out 20 mm more than the general standard wheel i.e. a +33 offset plus 20mm is roughly +10mm. Most sellers of the wheel have relied on the info from Terrafirma which does not give a correct indication. Devon 4x4 have corrected the information on their store to reflect the fact that they are ET 10 (+10mm offset). The offset in this case is with no beadlock fitted. It is marked ET 10 on the wheel. From standard, based on +33, the track is increased by 46mm based on ET 10 offset.

But bear in mind that the heavy duty steel wheels sold on 130's and on some 110's are +20mm standard offset hence track increase is then only 20mm for these. Because of this standard variation on standard wheel supplied on Defenders and the information supplied to me from the dealer that I believe they are legal but I am no expert on these matters so everyone will have to make their own conclusions in their own case. I have made genuine enquiries, even trying contacting a few vehicle engineers. Unfortunately these could not be bothered to get back to me. Insurance companies might disagree.

If people purchase them they do so at their own risk.

I hope this helps.

Cheers mate - greatly appreciated!

I do need to look into what the official widest track from a 110 Puma is - as you have rightly indicated, it might actually be wider than being simply based on the Boost Alloys.

I've actually got the full ADR spec sheet for the 110 floating around somewhere (which is the go-to for variations from standard re track, height, etc if push comes to shove) - need to dig it up to comfirm.

[Drover]

Okay,

So It was always my understanding that "-" off set back towards the centre of the car,

And that "+" was towards the out side.

Stock alloys are -33 or more rim on the inside....

Yes / No

[n plus one]

Okay,

So It was always my understanding that "-" off set back towards the centre of the car,

And that "+" was towards the out side.

Stock alloys are -33 or more rim on the inside....

Yes / No

Stock alloys (Boost) are 33 mm positive offset.

Positive offset means the wheel is closer to the centre of the vehicle (i.e. more rim on the inside) - negative moves the wheel outwards i.e. a deeper dished wheel.

Counter intuative, eh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offset_(wheel)

[Jimmy Salsa]

I've got a like new set of 285/70/17 inch mickey t MTZ's from my rangie sitting around and wanted to slot them under the defender.

Dynamic produce a set of 17 x 9 steel rims with a -30 offset.

Anyone more technical than me see any probs with fitting them to the 2009 Puma?

[n plus one]

I've got a like new set of 285/70/17 inch mickey t MTZ's from my rangie sitting around and wanted to slot them under the defender.

Dynamic produce a set of 17 x 9 steel rims with a -30 offset.

Anyone more technical than me see any probs with fitting them to the 2009 Puma?

At very least they'll rub on your radius arms (at full lock) and (probably) your rears springs (under articulation).

[chook73]

After having driven 4500km in two weeks on some very wet tracks the plus 10 offset and slightly wider tyres means the Defender gets coated in mud which makes getting in and out awkward and your hands get filthy trying to get in the vehicle. Paintwork could become an issue as well. Yes, I know I am a bit of a whimp.

Try a 300mm track increase, I get mud on the roof.... inside!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/206.jpg

I do like the look of those rims though they are a great match.