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mrapocalypse
10th May 2012, 08:13 AM
Spotted these on their way north when we were refuelling at Augathella.

Some interesting variants.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/05/1025.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/05/1026.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/05/992.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/05/1027.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/05/1028.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/05/1029.jpg

The two sets of rear wheels look a little spaced out to me.. but what would I know....

Cheers

I.

Lotz-A-Landies
10th May 2012, 08:41 AM
Yery traurig, dass die Armee Ziviltransport verwenden muss, um sich zu bewegen.

Ja " Etwas interessantes variants" mit dem ganzem Gespräch der geschützten Träger ist das mit Segeltuchtüren eine Überraschung. Der Abstand der Hinterachsen ist nicht der, der von den BRITISCHEN von der Fabrik gebilligten Umwandlungen 6X6 verschieden ist und die.

Anwendung von a durch Antrieb schränkt yout Wahlen ein. aber, was ich mich kennen würden, haben Sie nur eine Umwandlung Reynolds-Boughton 6X6.

Der schlingerfeste Stab, der am Radiusarm befestigt wird, ist eine interessante Technik!

Beifall
Diana.

Barefoot Dave
10th May 2012, 08:59 AM
Nice Spy work, Mr A.
Pick 3 is probably the First seen of this variant!:o:o:o
You know what this means, don't you?


Let the feeding frenzy begin!!:eek:

Prob end in tears, though,. Going off recent experience, they'll keep 1 for Bandiana, and let the rest go through attrition in the 'Ghan.
Great shots, Thanks again
Dave.

juddy
10th May 2012, 09:11 AM
What is Pic 3 a workshop type thing, or is it like that so they can fit it in a aircraft or helicopter??

Barefoot Dave
10th May 2012, 11:41 AM
Spot the similarities:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/05/991.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/05/992.jpg

Now, unless DoD is getting generous with the RFSUs and upgrading their RFSVs :p:wasntme:, I think (as I predicted) the Nary SOV is just tooooo heavy for some applications where mines aren't such an issue and long, unsupported range IS.
*sits back in smug self satisfaction*

Again, Mr A, congrats, I think you have a world exclusive. This varient was hinted at and partially seen here:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/05/993.jpg
, but not the final design.

isuzurover
10th May 2012, 11:47 AM
Nice work!!!

So looks like radius arms and coils all round... With D44-size diffs. The through-drive looks interesting...


....



The two sets of rear wheels look a little spaced out to me.. but what would I know....

Cheers

I.

They have been very considerate, and made space for us civvies to fit 37" tyres when we get our hands on them ;)

Barefoot Dave
10th May 2012, 11:51 AM
Waaaaiiiiit a minit!!
Augathella.... going North! Seems a strange route to deliver them to Darwin. Trials maybe?
Looks like I might have to re-enlist with the Delta Dogs!
*considers pros and cons.... driving lrpv's or keeping my family.....*
hhhmmmmm.;)

rainman
10th May 2012, 12:31 PM
Nice work!!!

So looks like radius arms and coils all round... With D44-size diffs. The through-drive looks interesting...

Yeah - very nice. Drums on the rear though :(. Oh well........ no big deal.

James.

Lotz-A-Landies
10th May 2012, 12:51 PM
Nice work!!!

So looks like radius arms and coils all round... With D44-size diffs. The through-drive looks interesting...



They have been very considerate, and made space for us civvies to fit 37" tyres when we get our hands on them ;)The rear axle system may be a good option for the "Plan B (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/138005-ikea-6x6d-anyone-have-allen-key-6.html#post1624091)" on my Defender 6X6! :) :)

At least the parts will be available.

PAT303
10th May 2012, 12:56 PM
The 6x6's sound good but rubbish offroad and loaded in the wet rubbish onroad,other than that they do look good. Pat

isuzurover
10th May 2012, 12:58 PM
The rear axle system may be a good option for the "Plan B (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/138005-ikea-6x6d-anyone-have-allen-key-6.html#post1624091)" on my Defender 6X6! :) :)

At least the parts will be available.

Certainly worth getting diagrams / specs for the assembly (and a price!) ...

mrapocalypse
10th May 2012, 02:09 PM
They weren't exactly keeping a low profile! They were on a civvy road train!

I though LRPV too but it could be some kind of launching system too perhaps.

Lotz-A-Landies
10th May 2012, 02:44 PM
They weren't exactly keeping a low profile! They were on a civvy road train!

... <snip>
Yery traurig, dass die Armee Ziviltransport verwenden muss, um sich zu bewegen.
...<snip>
Beifall
Diana.Yes as I mentioned above!

Diana :D

Barefoot Dave
10th May 2012, 04:57 PM
I still call LRPV.
CG label is well forward. Compare with the obviosly heavy Command(?). Mid rear wheels, the DC ute is just fore of the middle axle.
#3 is up to the cab, indicating it is not designed to carry many '000s of kgs. Empty locker space looks right for 3 jerries
I would have expected a launch vehicle would have MORE OHP, not a canvas top.
Time will tell.
Cheers, Dave.

Blknight.aus
10th May 2012, 05:05 PM
ahhhhgunbuggychoo...

Lotz-A-Landies
10th May 2012, 05:20 PM
ahhhhgunbuggychoo...Dave

In relation to Ben and my discussion (above), is there any chance of accessing information about the 6X6 G-Wagen through drive, diff and axle specs of the 2nd axle assembly?

Diana

Blknight.aus
10th May 2012, 05:46 PM
depends.......

if you were to ask nicely I might know a bloke whose qualled to repair them I could ask.

Lotz-A-Landies
10th May 2012, 05:51 PM
depends.......

if you were to ask nicely I might know a bloke whose qualled to repair them I could ask :TakeABow: :TakeABow: :TakeABow: :TakeABow: :TakeABow:
I'll come up and remove any Defender windscreens you may require removing and even buy a sausage sanga and a tinny to drink so you can supervise in comfort! :D

Blknight.aus
10th May 2012, 06:05 PM
in a nutshelll...

its the same as a through drive on a truck but instead of driving a top end worm or down bevel it drives a standard pinion setup. more accurately think of it as the LT230 center diff with the drive input from the Tcase coming in the nose, going through the spiders out the back to drive the rear and the diff center casing driving the center axles diff pinion.

IMHO the weak link is the power divider (being the diff between the diffs) but thats relative.... Overall driveline strenght is up northwards of sals gear except at the front. The actuation system for all the locks is overcomplicated but easy enough to make sensible and theres been problems with windup preventing release which has taken out axles.

Lotz-A-Landies
10th May 2012, 06:14 PM
in a nutshelll...

its the same as a through drive on a truck but instead of driving a top end worm or down bevel it drives a standard pinion setup.

IMHO the weak link is the power divider but thats relative.... Overall driveline strenght is up northwards of sals gear except at the front. The actuation system for all the locks is overcomplicated but easy enough to make sensible and theres been problems with windup preventing release which has taken out axles.So this has a rear pinion driving on the back of the crownwheel?

If Yes? I take it is a 6X4 selectable 6X6?

My current system is a lockable power-divider diff with a morse chain drive to the second axle (modified Rover) diff and a second parrallel through drive shaft beside the Rover pinion driving to a flange in a similar position to the G-Wagon.

Blknight.aus
10th May 2012, 06:40 PM
no, its about halfway between.

the power input comes in on what would normally be the front output of a Center diff.

the power then comes out where the drive would normally go in to drive the center diff (a short morse chain from memory) Power then goes out the back to the rear diff...

This is all from memory...

and googling power divider brings up lots of electronicary stuff so I cant even give you a sort of like this pic.

Lotz-A-Landies
10th May 2012, 06:45 PM
I think I'm going to need some images when someone can take any.

This is my middle axle, the day I picked it up.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/1017.jpg

digger
10th May 2012, 06:56 PM
ahhhhgunbuggychoo...

ahhh that would be a variation on MMMMGUNBUGGYMMMM ? I assume??:D:D

isuzurover
10th May 2012, 07:01 PM
I think I'm going to need some images when someone can take any.

...

I have emailed my contacts in automotive R&D in Germany and asked for pics/specs and part numbers for the assembly. They mainly work on Actros-sized equipment, but may know the relevant people.

Jojo
10th May 2012, 07:06 PM
Yery traurig, dass die Armee Ziviltransport verwenden muss, um sich zu bewegen.

Ja " Etwas interessantes variants" mit dem ganzem Gespräch der geschützten Träger ist das mit Segeltuchtüren eine Überraschung. Der Abstand der Hinterachsen ist nicht der, der von den BRITISCHEN von der Fabrik gebilligten Umwandlungen 6X6 verschieden ist und die.

Anwendung von a durch Antrieb schränkt yout Wahlen ein. aber, was ich mich kennen würden, haben Sie nur eine Umwandlung Reynolds-Boughton 6X6.

Der schlingerfeste Stab, der am Radiusarm befestigt wird, ist eine interessante Technik!

Beifall
Diana.

-?-

Blknight.aus
10th May 2012, 07:07 PM
pretty much the same mechanical layout as your pic, but more compact as its a designed single casing

digger
10th May 2012, 08:36 PM
-?-

something like...
Very sad that the Army use civilian transport in order to move.

Yes, "Something interesting variants" with all the talk of the carrier is protected with canvas doors for a surprise. The distance between the rear axles is not the one who is from UK factory approved conversions of the different and the 6X6.

Application of a drive through a restricted yout elections. But what I would know me, you only have one conversion Reynolds Boughton 6X6.

The lurching solid rod which is attached to the radius arm is an interesting technique!

cheers
Diana.


(google.translate)

Lotz-A-Landies
10th May 2012, 10:06 PM
...
(google.translate)What did you expect me to do the title of the thread was in spoken German and English text. I thought the reply would have to be with English title and German text!

The translation programmes are never much good. in short.

The first two bits are sort of O.K.

The comment was that the G Wagen inter axle spacing is not that much different to UK factory approved 6X6 conversions. Take that from someone who has a Reynolds-Boughton conversion.

The last bit was the interesting technique of fixing the anti-roll bar to the radius arms.

Jojo
10th May 2012, 10:20 PM
...and I figured it must be the instruction manual for a kitchen application made in the PRC.:cool:

Honestly, I could not work out anything, neither in the German text or the re-translation into your native tongue with help of one of those ominous online translators.
Especially the part about this "lurching solid rod" keeps me puzzled...
Cheers

slug_burner
10th May 2012, 11:17 PM
On the way to Townsville maybe.

Looks like a dog carrier, for Blknight's mates in the blue pastel suits, with the canvas cover, an ambulance with the box on top and no not an LRPV replacement but if I told you I'd have to shoot you.

Barefoot Dave
12th May 2012, 09:25 AM
not LRPV, hmmmmm.
2nd guess, ADGies go 6X6? warmer?
Dave.


PS, my head's already stored in an 'A' class container, so all's good ; ))

slug_burner
12th May 2012, 09:58 AM
warmer before

Firefish
12th May 2012, 07:03 PM
I did see a couple of 6-wheel variants in Townsville during the week - don't go past Lavarack much so don't know how common they are up here

LandyAndy
12th May 2012, 07:56 PM
Who chose the tyres:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
SURELY NOT BFG ATs:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
Andrew

Benz
12th May 2012, 08:03 PM
Who chose the tyres:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
SURELY NOT BFG ATs:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
Andrew

are they bad or something?

Blknight.aus
13th May 2012, 05:53 AM
its not an outstanting tyre thats not all that good in the wet....

given what the intent of the vehicles design is, its not the worst choice of tyre..

Check out the size of the sway bar, thats more of a limiting factor in offroad handling than the tyre is.

FFR
13th May 2012, 08:26 AM
going North! Seems a strange route to deliver them to Darwin. Trials maybe?


New firing targets ?

Now, seriously, what is wrong with the perenties ? Why you Aussies are buying this things abroad ? I understand that something like an air strike missile has to be bought abroad, but a 4x4 or 6x6 is not rocket science.

What are the Germans buying from Oz in exchange ?



cheers,
Carlos

juddy
13th May 2012, 09:03 AM
New firing targets ?

Now, seriously, what is wrong with the perenties ? Why you Aussies are buying this things abroad ? I understand that something like an air strike missile has to be bought abroad, but a 4x4 or 6x6 is not rocket science.

What are the Germans buying from Oz in exchange ?



cheers,
Carlos

Fosters......

Lotz-A-Landies
13th May 2012, 09:34 AM
New firing targets ?

Now, seriously, what is wrong with the perenties ? Why you Aussies are buying this things abroad ? I understand that something like an air strike missile has to be bought abroad, but a 4x4 or 6x6 is not rocket science.

What are the Germans buying from Oz in exchange ?

cheers,
CarlosLand Rover closed the Land Rover factory in Australia and the perenties are nearing 30 years old, something had to replace them.

The Germans may not be buying anything from us, but arent the G-Wagen built in Austria and the Dutch are buying the Australian built Bushmaster from us.

Diana

FFR
13th May 2012, 11:30 AM
Hi,

I mentioned the exchange issue because in Europe there is an offset program for military foreign sales, so if a big order is placed abroad, it is agreeded that certain percentage of re-investing in the originating country by the country who sells the goods. Some technology (knowledge, know-how) transfer is acceptable as part of the re-investing (sometimes).

BTW, I work for a German company... did you know that there are way more Defenders in Munich that G Wagons ??



Carlos

FFR
13th May 2012, 11:53 AM
the perenties are nearing 30 years old, something had to replace them.

Diana

Hi Diana,

Hercules are much older than 30, and they are still on the air. The same applies for the F-18, which lifespan is being extended with new comms, sensors and weapons. But if the policy is not to retrofit/upgrade the vehicles then, yes, you are absolutely right, something new has to be bought. Then the Mercedes is a great choice. I wish I had one to see how is built...

UK Army has/had Hobson Industries rebuilding Wolf's, and there was a program (Tithanus ?) to retrofit some of the old defenders to prolong their life (perfectly suitable for low-demanding tasks in easy theatres).


Carlos

Lotz-A-Landies
13th May 2012, 11:55 AM
Part of the assembly is occurring in Oz as are the specialist bodies being built here.

But AFAIK Forsters is still the biggest item the Germans buy from us and more than that, the Fosters sold in the Eu is brewed in the Eu and don't the South African/US company SAB Millers own Carlton & United Breweries these days.

slug_burner
13th May 2012, 12:16 PM
Land Rover closed the Land Rover factory in Australia and the perenties are nearing 30 years old, something had to replace them.

The Germans may not be buying anything from us, but arent the G-Wagen built in Austria and the Dutch are buying the Australian built Bushmaster from us.

Diana

The Dutch have bought Bushmasters but don't know that there is any more of a buy than the 30 or so that they have purchased.

Barefoot Dave
13th May 2012, 01:20 PM
SB, to recap:
Not LRPV nor ADG buggie...
If staying in Qld and not passing through the long way to NT;
VM DFSW Pl vehicle?
If not, that leaves the less likely ( but sorely needed) options of a vehicle to fulfill the role of RFSU mothership for patrols and additional firepower as required. Not that 6 diggers 1000km from support need anything bigger than a m79 orF 89 :p :mad:
Now that would be an appropriate use of. 0005% of the ADF Budget!
Cheers, Dave.:-)

Blknight.aus
13th May 2012, 01:34 PM
BTW, I work for a German company... did you know that there are way more Defenders in Munich that G Wagons ??



Carlos

Theres a reason for that.... one that Im not supposed to speculate on....



SB, to recap:
Not LRPV nor ADG buggie...
If staying in Qld and not passing through the long way to NT;
VM DFSW Pl vehicle?
If not, that leaves the less likely ( but sorely needed) options of a vehicle to fulfill the role of RFSU mothership for patrols and additional firepower as required. Not that 6 diggers 1000km from support need anything bigger than a m79 orF 89 :p :mad:
Now that would be an appropriate use of. 0005% of the ADF Budget!
Cheers, Dave.:-)


from what I recall from the wireframe drawings of what model was supposed to be what the nearest 110 role to what the mystery 6x6 geywagon is the RFSV or RSV.

Lotz-A-Landies
13th May 2012, 01:38 PM
The Dutch have bought Bushmasters but don't know that there is any more of a buy than the 30 or so that they have purchased.And that is about the only vehicle that has been purchased from an Australian based constructor by any Euro zone Country.

Barefoot Dave
13th May 2012, 01:50 PM
Thanks Dave.
I thought there was a 4x 4 straight replacement for the twins?
A 6x 6 might work for Recon Pl or the ADGs but is a retrograde choice for most of the country I worked in. Poor ramp-over and turning circle for med to close country.
Even savannah country has small creeks and thick bush to contend with.
The beauty of the 110 RFSV was the abilit to get in close, disappear the car in 15min, and hoof a short distance to the tgt. Job done, exfil, relocate and restatart the process in short order. Meant we could cover a lot of tgts with minimal troops.
Probably shouldn'ta said that :wasntme:
Glad it's not me who has to dig it in to lowr the profile.
Cheers, Dave.

copba
13th May 2012, 03:21 PM
I did see a couple of 6-wheel variants in Townsville during the week - don't go past Lavarack much so don't know how common they are up here

Yeah, I saw one on Friday in Townsville driving around. looked the same as the first photo, but had an aluminium, or galv steel box on the tray.
It actually looked pretty good, but then it'd want to for the 200K :eek: or whatever they're costing.

Blknight.aus
13th May 2012, 04:56 PM
200k is the price for the basic 4 door...

you dont want to know... trust me...

FFR
13th May 2012, 06:15 PM
The Dutch have bought Bushmasters but don't know that there is any more of a buy than the 30 or so that they have purchased.

Don't expect more purchases in a very long time... I'm Spanish, I know what I'm talking about...

atomant
13th May 2012, 07:21 PM
Is this is another piece of evidence that points to the discovery of the g (wagon) spot.

slug_burner
13th May 2012, 11:57 PM
SB, to recap:
Not LRPV nor ADG buggie...
If staying in Qld and not passing through the long way to NT;
VM DFSW Pl vehicle?
If not, that leaves the less likely ( but sorely needed) options of a vehicle to fulfill the role of RFSU mothership for patrols and additional firepower as required. Not that 6 diggers 1000km from support need anything bigger than a m79 orF 89 :p :mad:
Now that would be an appropriate use of. 0005% of the ADF Budget!
Cheers, Dave.:-)

very hot,

under the canvas cover in the back is a rear facing seat, does that remind you of anything?

Lotz-A-Landies
14th May 2012, 08:43 AM
Is this is another piece of evidence that points to the discovery of the g (wagon) spot.The G Wagon spot is overrated and in the realm of urban mythology. :o

(At least over priced)

tomalophicon
14th May 2012, 10:45 AM
Ugly bastards, these G-Wagens.

isuzurover
14th May 2012, 10:59 AM
its not an outstanting tyre thats not all that good in the wet....

given what the intent of the vehicles design is, its not the worst choice of tyre..

Check out the size of the sway bar, thats more of a limiting factor in offroad handling than the tyre is.

Given they have F+R lockers, wheel travel is not as big an issue as tyres.

However the BFG ats will be a reasonable choice for most duties, given the bushmasters / etc. will be doing the serious offroading...

Blknight.aus
14th May 2012, 11:57 AM
Given they have F+R lockers, wheel travel is not as big an issue as tyres.



Sure it is...

I dont care how locked up your drive line is... if the rubber aint grippin your going just as sideways into a world of roll over and recovery as the guy whose not going anywhere because hes crossaxled... And with the weight of those things....... Actually thinking on it... fully locked up your probably in a world more hurt because youve pushed yourself past the point where the unlocked dude would have had a good long think about it and not decided to redneck his way into more trouble than he was eqquiped to handle.

ramblingboy42
14th May 2012, 05:55 PM
I think I saw these vehicles too (no pics though) and I think (lot of thinkiing here....ouch!) there was one with what appeared to be a radome all tucked up neatly with what appeared to be some pretty heavy duty framework and hydraulics involved in the lifting frame.

LandyAndy
14th May 2012, 09:01 PM
Sure it is...

I dont care how locked up your drive line is... if the rubber aint grippin your going just as sideways into a world of roll over and recovery as the guy whose not going anywhere because hes crossaxled... And with the weight of those things....... Actually thinking on it... fully locked up your probably in a world more hurt because youve pushed yourself past the point where the unlocked dude would have had a good long think about it and not decided to redneck his way into more trouble than he was eqquiped to handle.

Im with you Dave,VERY SURPRISED on the tyre choice,not good enough!!!!!
Andrew

Barefoot Dave
14th May 2012, 09:09 PM
under the canvas cover in the back is a rear facing seat, does that remind you of anything?

Sure does:
Eating bulldust, Sunburn and dizziness during short halts as the world continues to move away from you.



Not to mention extreme nervousness with a 200l diesel drum behind.









Oh, and the ability to add a 2nd rear seat, this one facing forward with a hot redhead photographer and a long drive back from Townsville.......
but that's another story;)