Qualifications

[isuzurover]

It seems there are quite a few well qualified people on here... (well we are landrover owners ;) ).

I though a poll might be fun...

[Tombie]

Cant see any poll....

:cool:

[isuzurover]

Cant see any poll....

:cool:

Obviously you can type faster than me. Poll is there now. When you post a poll the thread appears and then you have to create the poll after (not sure Inc can change the software to hide the thread until the poll is finished?)

[MR LR]

How about current high school student?

Cheers
Will

[isuzurover]

How about current high school student?

Cheers
Will

that is what the "etc." in the last option is for ;)
(i.e. your current highest qualificatioon would be Primary or year 10 cert. - which also probably applies to many older members).

[tomalophicon]

I'll hopefully be a 'current apprentice' next year.

[DT-P38]

You've clearly covered off the definition spectrum for those that like having tickets on themselves. How about you also put in a category that will allow you to capture data on the rest of us? Perhaps something like:

I don't limit the definition of my skills to the gradings others put on me!

Or, a less emotive point like:

Self educated and trained.

It's just so you fairly and equally recognise there are some non-conventional people out there who are useful and skilled with out having had formal education and qualification. IMHO it looks a bit unbalanced and elitist with out that and may discourage some from contributing.

Your survey though... you can tell me to boot off too if you like!

[irondoc]

the poll only lets you tick one........ how can i tick 3 ????

[BigJon]

Good to see the most important one is at the top! :p:D:cool:

[stevo68]

You've clearly covered off the definition spectrum for those that like having tickets on themselves. How about you also put in a category that will allow you to capture data on the rest of us? Perhaps something like:

I don't limit the definition of my skills to the gradings others put on me!

Or, a less emotive point like:

Self educated and trained.

It's just so you fairly and equally recognise there are some non-conventional people out there who are useful and skilled with out having had formal education and qualification. IMHO it looks a bit unbalanced and elitist with out that and may discourage some from contributing.

Your survey though... you can tell me to boot off too if you like! Talk about a response with a massive chip on ones shoulder..FFS. How about you do as you suggest and boot off and when there is a poll for those who are non conventional and have self image problems....then you can vote your socks off and those that have tickets on themselves can take a turn at being marginalised. Blardy hell....talk about an OTT PC response,

Regards

Stevo.... B.Comm and bloody proud of it, achieved as a Mature Aged student whilst going through a divorce with 2 young children...elitist my arse :cool:

[d3syd]

Wow someone has a PhD amongst us.... wonder in what field.

[vnx205]

the poll only lets you tick one........ how can i tick 3 ????

Surely there can be only one HIGHEST. That is what the poll asks.

[Hamish71]

hmmmm.....I voted, but....maybe "highest" was the wrong word.

Sometimes "highest" depends on the environment. When mechanicing surely a trade is highest. When modifying, surely eningeering is highest?

And then there is personal opinion. I have 2 Masters Degrees......but Id swap it all to go back and get a trade! Perhaps just your professional qualification would have been more PC.

[bussy1963]

Did masters degree in finance and accounting years ago. To much pressure so got out of it.

Now Coach Driver and part time gynecologist no experience but i will that a look at it for you anyway. Only ever had two slaps after telling women that.

[isuzurover]

hmmmm.....I voted, but....maybe "highest" was the wrong word.

Sometimes "highest" depends on the environment. When mechanicing surely a trade is highest. When modifying, surely eningeering is highest?

And then there is personal opinion. I have 2 Masters Degrees......but Id swap it all to go back and get a trade! Perhaps just your professional qualification would have been more PC.

Good point. However those with a trade and a degree can choose which they think is their highest qualification.

However, the heirarchy of degrees and tafe qualifications is well established/standardised.

[d3syd]

part time gynecologist no experience but i will that a look at it for you anyway. Only ever had two slaps after telling women that.
:Rolling:

[p38arover]

Wow someone has a PhD amongst us.... wonder in what field.

There are now four.

[d3syd]

There are now four.

I think we should organise a trivial pursuit night. AULRO team vs Nissan/Toyota owners group(s). ;)

[Blknight.aus]

yep, Trade.... thats as high as it gets.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Good point. However those with a trade and a degree can choose which they think is their highest qualification.

However, the heirarchy of degrees and tafe qualifications is well established/standardised.But Ben, you didn't put down MBBS??? ;)

I thought you worked in the urology faculty, you know the one that studies waterworks and all the pressures in the plumbing and through the kidneys etc!

[Ean Austral]

Not sure where I fit in here Ben, got kicked out of school at just short of 15, so no school cert. of any sort, got a few marine certificates, so not sure where they fit in the list...


Cheers Ean

[Bigbjorn]

Why did you give individual classifications to physician/barbers and shyster/pettifoggers?

They hold only Bachelor degrees like most other tertiary educated. Likewise you give dots to Ph.D & D.Sc but ignore other often more difficult doctorates (Doctor of Engineering for example)

Perhaps you should have given click the dots to Bachelor, Master, Doctor without stating a profession.

[isuzurover]

Not sure where I fit in here Ben, got kicked out of school at just short of 15, so no school cert. of any sort, got a few marine certificates, so not sure where they fit in the list...


Cheers Ean

Last option.



Why did you give individual classifications to physician/barbers and shyster/pettifoggers?

They hold only Bachelor degrees like most other tertiary educated. Likewise you give dots to Ph.D & D.Sc but ignore other often more difficult doctorates (Doctor of Engineering for example)

Perhaps you should have given click the dots to Bachelor, Master, Doctor without stating a profession.

The main reason is that I selected 10 options for the poll so had to fill them up :D Plus I was curious how many (medical) doctors and lawyers we had on here.

Most engineers who do study above masters level earn a PhD award. If they then go further they earn a D.Sc. In australia a "Doctor of Engineering" is a new type of "professional doctorate" degree which is universally seen as inferior to a PhD (by the industry and by the government). For people doing PhDs (including in engineering), the uni pays your fees, for a D.Eng, you have to pay the uni (A large amount of) fees. Professional doctorates are like an extended coursework masters (though do have a research component like most M.Eng degrees).

So to clarify: PhD = "Doctor of Philosophy" which is awarded in Australia for research doctorates in any field. It stems from the days when "philosophy" encompassed all the sciences - from mathematics to poetry.

D.Sc is "Doctor of Science" - which is a rare degree (in australia - more common elsewhere) only offered by a few unis. It is only for academics who have spent many years doing research, and awarded based on you proving you have made a sufficient contribution to your chosen field of research.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Why did you give individual classifications to physician/barbers and shyster/pettifoggers?

They hold only Bachelor degrees like most other tertiary educated. Likewise you give dots to Ph.D & D.Sc but ignore other often more difficult doctorates (Doctor of Engineering for example)

Perhaps you should have given click the dots to Bachelor, Master, Doctor without stating a profession.A medical degree is a double bachelor degree.

Agree with you about letters degrees.

We are getting fussy when it comes to doctorates, if you have a doctorate in any discipline, you have spent a lot of time at the books! (and not out Land Rovering)

[Bigbjorn]

Last option.




The main reason is that I selected 10 options for the poll so had to fill them up :D Plus I was curious how many (medical) doctors and lawyers we had on here.

Most engineers who do study above masters level earn a PhD award. If they then go further they earn a D.Sc. In australia a "Doctor of Engineering" is a new type of "professional doctorate" degree which is universally seen as inferior to a PhD (by the industry and by the government). For people doing PhDs (including in engineering), the uni pays your fees, for a D.Eng, you have to pay the uni (A large amount of) fees. Professional doctorates are like an extended coursework masters (though do have a research component like most M.Eng degrees).

Nothing new about a D. Eng. Prof. Mansergh Shaw had one from UQ in the 1950's, UQ's first Doctor of Engineering. In Europe a Doctor of Engineering is a prestigious qualification considered far more valuable than a Ph. D. in Icelandic poetry and other useless studies many Ph. D's are awarded for.

At UQ Master of Engineering Science can be done by either research or course work. A D. Eng. must be done by research.

[85 county]

whats higher a BE or a BSc??

[isuzurover]

Nothing new about a D. Eng. Prof. Mansergh Shaw had one from UQ in the 1950's, UQ's first Doctor of Engineering. In Europe a Doctor of Engineering is a prestigious qualification considered far more valuable than a Ph. D. in Icelandic poetry and other useless studies many Ph. D's are awarded for.

At UQ Master of Engineering Science can be done by either research or course work. A D. Eng. must be done by research.

UQ are a special case as they use the european naming method for their engineering PhD. Have a look at all the other unis in Australia. E.g.


Doctor of Philosophy (PhD) in Engineering

A Doctor of Philosophy (PhD) is awarded on the basis of a thesis of approximately 80,000–100,000 words, which demonstrates independent, sustained and academically supervised research investigating a specialised topic. The PhD is awarded to research that makes a significant new contribution to the discipline.

Graduating with a PhD marks a student’s admission to the community of Engineering scholars.

And before you comment - U.o.M trumps UQ in most metrics which assess engineering programs and/or engineering research.

The french used to have a D.Eng, however they changed to a PhD in the '80's. The UK and the USA largely use the PhD name for an engineering doctorate.




whats higher a BE or a BSc??

Do you mean B.Ed or B.Eng ??? They are both bachelor's degrees... However a B.Eng (4yr) is usually considered equivalent to a B.Sc + Hons (3+1 yr).

[uninformed]

I clicked tradie, but I have a green belt......so read it and weep!

[Ratel10mm]

You don't have my qualification on there, probably because it's a UK one.

HNC in Refrigeration. It's a few units short of degree level.

I really should do the extra units one day. :rolleyes:

[banarcus]

Yeah my qual level doesn't exist either.

[isuzurover]

You don't have my qualification on there, probably because it's a UK one.

HNC in Refrigeration. It's a few units short of degree level.

I really should do the extra units one day. :rolleyes:

Yes we don't have refrigeration engineering as a stand alone degree in AU. It is usually part of mechanical engineering.

[Bigbjorn]

And before you comment - U.o.M trumps UQ in most metrics which assess engineering programs and/or engineering research.

.





.

Ah. U of M. The Football State degree factory.

What school did you go to? What is your father's lodge? Do you live in T'rak or P'ran. Oh, good. Here is your degree.

[B92 8NW]

BAppSc(Aviation), desperately seeking work:D. Thinking of either going on to Masters or rounding up unit credits and getting Bachelor of Aerospace Eng. if all this spare time persists:(

[uninformed]

BAppSc(Aviation), desperately seeking work:D. Thinking of either going on to Masters or rounding up unit credits and getting Bachelor of Aerospace Eng. if all this spare time persists:(

while your waiting on a job, come over and help me design stuff for my truck :D

[digger]

Apparently Im not a professional, at least not according to the tax man!


:eek:
Bachelor of Management (Policing)
Advanced Diploma of Policing
Police Studies Certificate
Associate Diploma in Justice Administration

and it equals nothing outside my current employment...:mad:

[Slunnie]

Do you mean B.Ed or B.Eng ??? They are both bachelor's degrees... However a B.Eng (4yr) is usually considered equivalent to a B.Sc + Hons (3+1 yr).

By that statement you're saying a B.Eng must have a compulsery thesis.

Anyway, a B.Ed is reasonably high... except in Japan, but a double B.Ed, now that is getting pretty close to the ceiling. :D

[digger]

By that statement you're saying a B.Eng must have a compulsery thesis.

Anyway, a B.Ed is reasonably high... except in Japan, but a double B.Ed, now that is getting pretty close to the ceiling. :D

We have a king size B.ed - I thought that was as big as it gets?!:angel:

[slug_burner]

what about my HLTSC?

[uninformed]

We have a king size B.ed - I thought that was as big as it gets?!:angel:

I think there is Super King :confused:

[LandyAndy]

No boxes for me either Ben.
I have a Final Trim/Construction Grader driver ticket that is recoknised nationally;);););););)
Andrew

[Tombie]

Ahhh Engineers...

The Oompa Loompas of Science.

[isuzurover]

No boxes for me either Ben.
I have a Final Trim/Construction Grader driver ticket that is recoknised nationally;);););););)
Andrew

Doesn't anyone understand the meaning of "etc...." :D



By that statement you're saying a B.Eng must have a compulsery thesis.

...


In almost all cases Yes. At least for students eligible to be awarded an Hons. degree.

Are all B.Ed degrees 4 years these days?

[LandyAndy]

Doesn't anyone understand the meaning of "etc...." :D




In almost all cases Yes. At least for students eligible to be awarded an Hons. degree.

Are all B.Ed degrees 4 years these days?

PLUCK YOU BEN:p:p:p:p:p:p:p
You can study for years for a degree but it wouldnt get you close to what I do in "ETC":cool::cool::cool::cool:
Each to their own buddy;););)
Andrew

[Chucaro]

There are some missing qualifications there, Diploma, Associate Diploma and Post Graduate Diploma.

It is interesting to mention that now some universities are taken into account, work experience and short courses done to be able to get a post graduate diploma without have bachelor qualification.

Not that it is important to me and less at my age but in my case I have a diploma in agriculture with suinoculture and agriculture mechanization specialization.
Also I have a diploma in Industrial Maintenance.
As a work experience in the field I have many years as service manager to John Deere, Class and Ford. Which will be my highest qualification? :confused:
In the mechanical field 30 years experience in machine tools, robotics and CNC and NC tools. Is this give me a higher qualification that a bachelor degree?
I guess that this is just an example among many that a formal high qualification it is relative not only to the highest formal education obtained but also to what the person have done in his/her

[Lotz-A-Landies]

There are some missing qualifications there, Diploma, Associate Diploma and Post Graduate Diploma.
... <snip>
In the mechanical field 30 years experience in machine tools, robotics and CNC and NC tools. Is this give me a higher qualification that a bachelor degree?
I guess that this is just an example among many that a formal high qualification it is relative not only to the highest formal education obtained but also to what the person have done in his/her30 years in a field certainly makes you experienced and an asset to any employer, however unfortunate as it may be, the person entering the industry with a bachelor or higher degree is more likely to climb the ladder quicker and become your boss while he still can't operate the CNC.

It has long been recognised that people with trade and technical institution qualifications are the can do people in the company while the university graduates get the kudos and higher salaries.

This from someone who has both a trade equivalent certificate, journeyman equivalent qualifications, bachelor, grad dip and masters degrees. Then I woke up to myself, dropped my thesis and came back to enjoying myself with my original interest Land Rovers! :D

[korg20000bc]

Doesn't anyone understand the meaning of "etc...." :D




In almost all cases Yes. At least for students eligible to be awarded an Hons. degree.

Are all B.Ed degrees 4 years these days?

Bachelor of teaching -3 years
Bachelor of Education- 4 years

[Chucaro]

If that it is the case, then why with my experience I can do a postgraduate diploma and be more qualified than a bachelor?
Also remember that a trade qualifications (in my time, early 60's) was a certificate and not a diploma which was obtained in a college of advanced education or a university.
As I said before it is not important now @ 66+ and was not important when I was on the work force.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

If that it is the case, then why with my experience I can do a postgraduate diploma and be more qualified than a bachelor?
Also remember that a trade qualifications (in my time, early 60's) was a certificate and not a diploma which was obtained in a college of advanced education or a university.
As I said before it is not important now @ 66+ and was not important when I was on the work force.Because it is called adult entry and they are giving credit for 30 years experience. There are people who go into business masters degrees without ever setting foot in a university before.

It all depends upon the university, the faculty and the applicant (and sometimes how much to you are willing to pay). Going into a higher degree without undergraduate quals is quite a challenge and not recommended unless you have a lot of motivation, a supportive family and usually significant support for the student from the faculty.

BUT WELL WORTH IT IN THE END, if only because it allows you a different way to look at the chosen industry and the application of new knowledge.

[Nick S]

Ah. U of M. The Football State degree factory.

What school did you go to? What is your father's lodge? Do you live in T'rak or P'ran. Oh, good. Here is your degree.

Hey Brian
I spent 14 years studying and working to get my 4 degrees including a PhD from UoM. My parents were migrants and I don't live in Toorak or Prahran. Coincidently I am now a Prof at Uni of Melb, that came about in part by publishing more than 100 peer reviewed research articles and securing more tha $12M in research grants. I can tell you that my PhD students work their arses off doing research at the Royal Melb Hospital, they well and truly earn their degrees. Statements like yours really make you sound a bit stupid which I'm sure your not. By the way my only car is a 1990 RRC
Cheers
Nick

[Hymie]

I think we should organise a trivial pursuit night. AULRO team vs Nissan/Toyota owners group(s). ;)

We'd have to pick a venue with deep gutters and wide doors so the Nissan/Tojo owners knuckles won't drag on the ground and their heads will fit in the door.

[Hymie]

I've a few Army Only trade qualifications and 2 Uni Certificate courses.
Other than that a few unmentioned quals from the University of Life and a pass in Plasticine in Kindergarten.
Next year I'm looking at starting a DipEd-Secondary.

What is the difference between Mechanical Engineers and Civil Engineers?
Mechanical Engineers build weapons. Civil Engineers build targets.

[isuzurover]

I've a few Army Only trade qualifications and 2 Uni Certificate courses.
Other than that a few unmentioned quals from the University of Life and a pass in Plasticine in Kindergarten.
Next year I'm looking at starting a DipEd-Secondary.

It is a bugger that the army quals aren't more widely recognised. A mate (of a mate) was a navy clearance diver, andf thought he would be able to get a PADI divemaster (instructor) cert with no problems. PADI said no dice... he had to start from the bottom...



What is the difference between Mechanical Engineers and Civil Engineers?
Mechanical Engineers build weapons. Civil Engineers build targets.

Civils seem to be the butt of all jokes...


Three engineers (electrical, mechanical, civil) are sitting around over a beer, arguing about what type of engineer was in charge of the design of the human body.

The electrical engineer believed that the human body was obviously designed by an electrical engineer, because the nervous system acts as a communication system and control system, and the brain is the best computer ever invented. The mechanical engineer thought that was fine as far as it went, but the body couldn't manage without the complex mechanisms which made up the arms, legs, trunk etc. But in the finish, they were persuaded that a civil engineer must have been in charge - because only a civil engineer would put a toxic waste pipeline through the middle of a recreational area!

[uninformed]

Hey Brian
I spent 14 years studying and working to get my 4 degrees including a PhD from UoM. My parents were migrants and I don't live in Toorak or Prahran. Coincidently I am now a Prof at Uni of Melb, that came about in part by publishing more than 100 peer reviewed research articles and securing more tha $12M in research grants. I can tell you that my PhD students work their arses off doing research at the Royal Melb Hospital, they well and truly earn their degrees. Statements like yours really make you sound a bit stupid which I'm sure your not. By the way my only car is a 1990 RRC
Cheers
Nick

Yep, my father was the son of a migrant and started his medical degree at Melbourne uni finishing at Adelaide uni. Had cancer not taken him you would have another landrover owner that was not only a doctor but also a lawyer.

[The ho har's]

We don't have any degrees or tafe qualifications, oh I did a sailing and swim coach tafe course, does that count.

HH however has worked for the same company for over 30 years in the sign industry.

I have worked in the hospitality industry for 20 years.

So we don't tick any of the above boxes:(

But we can restore Land Rovers , we think, to original condition and we are proud of it.

Does that count;)

Mrs hh:angel:

[slug_burner]

what about my HLTSC?

Obviously did not bait the hook well enough.

Herald Learn To Swim Certificate

[DT-P38]

Talk about a response with a massive chip on ones shoulder..FFS. How about you do as you suggest and boot off and when there is a poll for those who are non conventional and have self image problems....then you can vote your socks off and those that have tickets on themselves can take a turn at being marginalised. Blardy hell....talk about an OTT PC response,

Regards

Stevo.... B.Comm and bloody proud of it, achieved as a Mature Aged student whilst going through a divorce with 2 young children...elitist my arse :cool:

For the last bit, well done and good for you pal. And I mean that with the utmost sincerity.

But you can go **** yourself until you have the appropriate degree to diagnose and classify wether or not I have "self image" problems. **** **** ******, have I even met you before? Let alone spent time becoming acquainted having a chat over a beer? And really, if I am OTT PC then you must be the most under the bottom ignoramus I have had the displeasure of interacting with in some time. MD level hey? Well bugger me they must be hard up.

Not everyone wants or needs tickets-papers-robes-cloaks-daggers to be qualified or satisfied with their situation in life. No chip there, just echoing the desire for balance that a lot of the collegiate types around here demand in other's posts.

One thing I am starting to realize is where a lot of the stress, drama and anxiety comes from around here. I hope for your sakes the survey shows up a few therapists, psychologists and chemists (so you can get a decent talking to and a chill pill or two). Maybe some of you need to try getting your heads out of the books (or is that your own bums?) and enjoy a bit of your life with less complexity somewhere out in the real world.

Geez pa i must be blessed to be sharing some cyber space and time with all these academic intellectual types! Pass me the grits ma!!! LOL!!!

[Slunnie]

If it looks like a chip, smells like a chip and feels like a chip..... then its probably a chip.


We all self train, but he wasn't interested in that - everybody does it. He wanted to know formal qualifications only - his question, he can specify what he wants. Who knows, perhaps you need a formal qualification to be able to see that. :D

[bob10]

Well, we have a most wonderful mixture of personalities in AULRO, from those with high achievements in academic life, to those with extensive life experience. Not much difference between the two, really.Me? I left school at 15, did a trade in the Navy, then for a number of years had the time of my life travelling the world , spent all my money on women & good times , saw some fantastic places, met great people, [some not so great ] laughed, cried & bled in some of the roughest dives in the world, and met people like Lord Mountbatten & Emporer Haile Selassie, saluted the Queen [ you know, our one] one thing I learned --- don't take yourself so seriously. It is a lesson I forget myself sometimes, and constantly have to remind myself about, but it is obvious we Land Rover owners are a passionate bunch, and express ourselves with gusto, and long may it be so. Bob

[isuzurover]

If it looks like a chip, smells like a chip and feels like a chip..... then its probably a chip.


We all self train, but he wasn't interested in that - everybody does it. He wanted to know formal qualifications only - his question, he can specify what he wants. Who knows, perhaps you need a formal qualification to be able to see that. :D

There is a saying: "a turkey with a degree(s) is still a turkey"

However the reverse is also true. A turkey without a degree...

[Yorkie]

Does it matter, we are obviously not skilled enough so own land rovers!. Buy a nisota for any real higher learning!
Stay under the radar you will get further. :)

[Slunnie]

Well, we have a most wonderful mixture of personalities in AULRO, from those with high achievements in academic life, to those with extensive life experience. Not much difference between the two, really.Me? I left school at 15, did a trade in the Navy, then for a number of years had the time of my life travelling the world , spent all my money on women & good times , saw some fantastic places, met great people, [some not so great ] laughed, cried & bled in some of the roughest dives in the world, and met people like Lord Mountbatten & Emporer Haile Selassie, saluted the Queen [ you know, our one] one thing I learned --- don't take yourself so seriously. It is a lesson I forget myself sometimes, and constantly have to remind myself about, but it is obvious we Land Rover owners are a passionate bunch, and express ourselves with gusto, and long may it be so. Bob
You've done a lot of awesome things and had a lot of fantastic life experiences. A trade from the Navy speaks volumes also and would no doubt be a prized qualification from employers and you've seen that life should be a bunch of really positive experences. All of these life experiences though are not unique to people that either have or dont have formal qualifications. But you're right, people are people and not necesarily defined by any one feature of who they are or what they have. We're all Landy enthusiasts and the diversity brings a real richness to this community.

[rovercare]

I failed year 10, now iz a lektrician:)

[JDNSW]

The thing that interests me is - still no doctors or lawyers! I wonder if there are any dentists?

John

[Piddler]

Bachelor of teaching -3 years
Bachelor of Education- 4 years

Bachelor of Teaching counts as a 5 year trained teacher as a entry prerequisite is a previous Degree. They start 1 level higher on the pay scale and go up the ranks quicker. Double degree qualified.

Cheers

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Three engineers (electrical, mechanical, civil) are sitting around over a beer, arguing about what type of engineer was in charge of the design of the human body.

The electrical engineer believed that the human body was obviously designed by an electrical engineer, because the nervous system acts as a communication system and control system, and the brain is the best computer ever invented. The mechanical engineer thought that was fine as far as it went, but the body couldn't manage without the complex mechanisms which made up the arms, legs, trunk etc. But in the finish, they were persuaded that a civil engineer must have been in charge - because only a civil engineer would put a toxic waste pipeline through the middle of a recreational area! except the control and data storage systems were designed by a chemical engineer, the civil engineer merely designed the box!

[bob10]

Tradies- 55, Batchelor Degree 47, GO THE TRADIES!!!, BTW, do Apprentices count for half points? Bob

[JDNSW]

Tradies- 55, Batchelor Degree 47, GO THE TRADIES!!!, BTW, do Apprentices count for half points? Bob

You probably ought to include the DSc and PhD in the bachelor degree, since they will all have that or equivalent. And if you give a half point to apprentices, then surely that should also be given to university students.

John

[bob10]

You probably ought to include the DSc and PhD in the bachelor degree, since they will all have that or equivalent. And if you give a half point to apprentices, then surely that should also be given to university students.

John

Got me on a technicality, John. You know there should be enough talent in the forum to design & build a better defender , :p , if only a certain red-head would allocate funds for construction. Bob

[d3syd]

The thing that interests me is - still no doctors or lawyers!

I was thinking the same thing. I think they prefer to drive BMW X5s, Merc MLs, Audi Q7s and Porsche Cayennes.

[lambrover]

I was thinking the same thing. I think they prefer to drive BMW X5s, Merc MLs, Audi Q7s and Porsche Cayennes.

And the problem with that is!

can't blame them, they probably dont leak crap all over there drive way.:p

And my qual is I am a mechanic.

[korg20000bc]

Bachelor of Teaching counts as a 5 year trained teacher as a entry prerequisite is a previous Degree. They start 1 level higher on the pay scale and go up the ranks quicker. Double degree qualified.

Cheers

You could do it that way if you have a previous degree. But, a Bachelor of Teacher is a lesser education degree than a Bachelor of Education-
from Wikipedia:

Australia

In Australia, a 4-Year Bachelor of Education degree combines practical/pedagogical study with a Major sequence in the academic discipline of Education. Students study a range of Education-related subjects, including Psychology, Sociology, History, Social Policy, Professional Practice, etc. Students also study subjects from another field or discipline as qualification for an intended teaching area or method. The degree is available in several specialisations, including Primary, Secondary, Human Movement/Health, Music, or Early Childhood. The longer duration of the course allows for more practical experiences and greater personal or professional development before teaching service. Most Australian State Teacher-Certification bodies require either a Bachelor of Education, or an Undergraduate/Bachelor's Degree in one or two subject areas, with a Graduate Diploma in Education as a minimum. A B.Ed. is not to be confused with the lesser degree Bachelor of Teaching, which is usually an 'End-On' course similar but slightly longer than a Graduate Diploma in Education.

[bob10]

Perhaps there are no doctors because they are far too busy to find time to spend maintaining Land Rovers..... Bob

[frantic]

Our obstetrician for our last 3 kids(child birth doctor) has a D3 or D4 but does work every 2nd weekend + on call for emg. c-sections etc so would be one doc with no time for a forum.

[Piddler]

You could do it that way if you have a previous degree. But, a Bachelor of Teacher is a lesser education degree than a Bachelor of Education-
from Wikipedia:

There is your first mistake, never believe everything published on the web.

Sounds like you need to ask the state education authorities they will tell you different :)

[korg20000bc]

There is your first mistake, never believe everything published on the web.

Sounds like you need to ask the state education authorities they will tell you different :)

Good luck to you. Thanks for the info.
Maybe I'm just showing my age...

[p38arover]

The thing that interests me is - still no doctors or lawyers! I wonder if there are any dentists?

John

I'll get my daughter to join in a couple of years. :) She was a D1 driver and is presently an RN (B. Nurs.) in her 4th year of medicine. She drives a Forester but she misses her D1.

[FISHGUTS]

Well, we have a most wonderful mixture of personalities in AULRO, from those with high achievements in academic life, to those with extensive life experience. Not much difference between the two, really.Me? I left school at 15, did a trade in the Navy, then for a number of years had the time of my life travelling the world , spent all my money on women & good times , saw some fantastic places, met great people, [some not so great ] laughed, cried & bled in some of the roughest dives in the world, and met people like Lord Mountbatten & Emporer Haile Selassie, saluted the Queen [ you know, our one] one thing I learned --- don't take yourself so seriously. It is a lesson I forget myself sometimes, and constantly have to remind myself about, but it is obvious we Land Rover owners are a passionate bunch, and express ourselves with gusto, and long may it be so. Bob

Same here Bob and pretty much have the same views. In addition to the Queen, chuck in General Rabuka (FIJI), Michael Somari (PNG), King Hussein (Jordan) all wonderful people in their own right and all had/have a passion for their beliefs. I got several Senior Certificates from the Navy, later a Diploma of Business, currently run a large Distribution Centre in Perth, drive a Disco 2a (with the 3 amigos), generally enjoy life without getting too upset about comments such as those thrown around and as suggested we are a passionate bunch but also a very much 'drop & help' mob when one of us needs assistance and you don't need a bit of paper for that... love it :):D:p
I guess I'll be ticking the 'etc'... box.

Cheers,

Peter.

[blitz]

As a mature aged student (just like Stevo and same scenario) I did a Batchelor of teaching Adult vocational.

I also have the following:
fully qualified Electrician, refrigeration and airconditioning mechanic and Gas fitter

Diploma of management, Cert IV TAA

Currently finishing off my diploma of quality auditing then going to do a MBA in HR/OH&S

and I dont have a bloody elitist bone in my body but I have gotten off of my arse and bettered myself, which includes years of self study on top of formal study.

[Pinelli]

I think we should organise a trivial pursuit night. AULRO team vs Nissan/Toyota owners group(s). ;)

Given I've got both a Landy and a Nissan, I wouldn't know which team to join, but I think I'd steer clear of any group containing both Nissan and Toyota drivers in the one room, particularly if you're suggesting they have something in common. Should see some of what's written on their forums about each other.

[Pinelli]

Bachelor of teaching -3 years
Bachelor of Education- 4 years

CQU now offers a Bachelor of Learning Management ;)

4 years minimum to be registered as a new teacher these days. Still a few old teachers with the 2 year quals floating around, just around the corner from retirement.

I'm a BEd Stud, btw :D

[Piddler]

CQU now offers a Bachelor of Learning Management ;)

4 years minimum to be registered as a new teacher these days. Still a few old teachers with the 2 year quals floating around, just around the corner from retirement.

I'm a BEd Stud, btw :D

I read on the Sydney Morning Herald site the other day 5000 New South Wales teachers to retire in the next 12 months.

Cheers

[Davehoos]

most teachers are ready to retire.if you look at any stats on the age of workers in any feild.
when they go there wont be replacments----except the 1000's that cant get a full time job now-doing temp work at casual rates for current permanent teachers on long service leave-study leave maternity leave.

my mates daughter and her partner average $2600 per week in primary schools and dont want the higher payed high school possitions offered--but are unhappy that they dont get payed over the hollidays or how hard it was to get home loans on their third house.

a few years ago the local school begged my wife to do a few courses to finish a DEd having early childhood diplomer.I begged even more as I would be retired now.
they could not fill positions as they are 75km from newcastle CBD.
they still cant fill headmaster possitions-as they get one for a term then they get offers of permanent in bigger cities.

[Ralph1Malph]

30 years in a field certainly makes you experienced and an asset to any employer, however unfortunate as it may be, the person entering the industry with a bachelor or higher degree is more likely to climb the ladder quicker and become your boss... This was entirely my motivation. Sick of working for grad students and junior engos whom I had to spoon feed almost everything:mad:

It has long been recognised that people with trade and technical institution qualifications are the can do people in the company while the university graduates get the kudos and higher salaries.! Again, my primary driver to higher ed. That and getting older, need more cash:D:D



It all depends upon the university, the faculty and the applicant (and sometimes how much to you are willing to pay). Going into a higher degree without undergraduate quals is quite a challenge and not recommended unless you have a lot of motivation, a supportive family and usually significant support for the student from the faculty. Not always. My Masters is from Monash Faculty of Engineering and no distinctions were made or concessions given to mature age or non bachelor folk. I made sure I was ready by doing bridging through Swinburn.

BUT WELL WORTH IT IN THE END, if only because it allows you a different way to look at the chosen industry and the application of new knowledge.

This covers it for me. I am happy as an old experienced tradie but that doesn't pay the bills anymore and I got sick of nurturing grads and junior engos. There should be a fee payable for every grad u train.:p I certainly had family support and lots of it cos attempting a higher degree with family and full time work is a PITA.:twisted:
The only bit I don't like about my degree now is the fact that the abbreviation is too long for business cards....MMaintReliabEng:mad:

Cheers

[85 county]

well i did it the hard way. TC ATC NZCE then i got packed off by the company i worked for to convert to a BE Met, never worked it though.

a few years later i did My Ba the same way, only 1 year not working as a fulltime student.

[isuzurover]

Interesting results. So far AULRO members are about 30% better qualified than the average population.

Latest ABS stats are 59% of people have a "non-school" qualification. We are currently at >78%.

FWIW, the number of (practicing) physicians and lawyers in AU is:
0.179 and 0.357 per hundred people respectively. So we are slightly ahead of the stats with one of each so far...

[mick88]

You have included "Bachelors" but forgot about those of us who are married!



Cheers, Mick.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Interesting results. So far AULRO members are about 30% better qualified than the average population.

Latest ABS stats are 59% of people have a "non-school" qualification. We are currently at >78%.

FWIW, the number of (practicing) physicians and lawyers in AU is:
0.179 and 0.357 per hundred people respectively. So we are slightly ahead of the stats with one of each so far...Well sort of yes, however this is about as far away from a rigorous experiment as you can get. There are just so many extraneous variables: did all AULRO members or at least a representative sample respond to the survey.
what ego effects are there which attribute to those members who saw the survey and didn't complete the poll.
Are the survey instruments between our survey and the ABS Census equivalent.
etc....It's about as accurate as the latest poll in New Idea! :D

[isuzurover]

Well sort of yes, however this is about as far away from a rigorous experiment as you can get. There are just so many extraneous variables: did all AULRO members or at least a representative sample respond to the survey.
what ego effects are there which attribute to those members who saw the survey and didn't complete the poll.
Are the survey instruments between our survey and the ABS Census equivalent.
etc....It's about as accurate as the latest poll in New Idea! :D


Well yes of course... As I said at the start it is a bit of fun.

However newspolls are no different, they usually poll 1000 people who choose to respond (i.e. don't hang up). We are 1/5th of the way to 1000 respondents.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

... We are 1/5th of the way to 1000 respondents.Fabulous, now we don't have to use Fisher's Exact Test! :D ;) :p

[Gumnut]

And what happened to "Certificate", "Advanced Certificate", "Associate Diploma", "Diploma" and "Advanced Diploma"?

[isuzurover]

And what happened to "Certificate", "Advanced Certificate", "Associate Diploma", "Diploma" and "Advanced Diploma"?

All TAFE courses, so fit into the last category.

[bob10]

Was it just a co-incidence the tradies colour is maroon, and Bsc colour blue, with the state of origin coming up? CARN. THE MAROONS!!!! Good to see the High School & TAFE members catching up.:spudnikhalfback: Bob

[bob10]

This thread got me thinking about what qualifications were gained during my 21 yrs. in the Grey Funnel Line, apart from the Trade Certificate.A quick glance thru my Record of Training & Employment came up with the following;

Certificate of Competency : 1. 1st Class Internal Combustion Engine Drivers Certificate
2. 1st Class Steam Engine Drivers Certificate [ steam]

Issued as civilian equivelants of 1. Engine Room Watchkeeping Certificate 2 .Boiler Watchkeeping Certificate [ steam ]

Satisfactorily completed ;
Advanced welding course
machinary charge certificate [ steam]
advanced damage control course
Daring Class Destroyer experience
, Guided missile Destroyer experience
Patrol Boat charge MTP course
Attack class patrol boat experience
Fremantle class patrol boat charge mtp course
Fremantle class patrol boat experience
The ZF gearbox maintainers course

Qualified to instruct;
Firefighting practical
Advanced damage control course [ fire fighting/ Nuclear, Biological, & Chemical defence]

How I ever found the time for all that between wine ,women & song [ ahhhh... the memories :)] is beyond me, lucky we spent a lot of time at sea, I guess. Bob

[Lionelgee]

All TAFE courses, so fit into the last category.

Hello Isuzurover,

They might be now but when I did my Associate Diploma Farm Management (Horticulture) it was through Queensland Agricultural College. This now sadly missed institution was then on par with the old Colleges of Advanced Education. It was only after Dawkins stuck his finger in the education pie that the CAEs upgraded to unis or had to disappear. Back then TAFE handled "Trade Certificates" CAE offered "Technical" diplomas including teaching; and then university covered the applied and theoretical degree side of things.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

I left school three times - Year 10 for a trade which fell through so I went back to school. I left school in Year 11 for a trade which fell through. Reluctantly I finished and deliberately failed Year 12. I then went for a trade - which fell through. I worked in different fields for 3 years and I hit 21 years old got into Queensland Agricultural College through mature age entry. I scrapped through my Associate Diploma of Farm Management Horticulture. I was never out of a job after doing that. I became a Trade Teacher Horticulture with Queensland TAFE, part of this was that I had to do a Bachelor of Adult Vocational Teaching at Griffith Uni. Taught at TAFE for 7 years - my last two years were teaching long term unemployed people exclusively. These were people who were forced to study … umm attend training – sometimes; or they would lose their dole. After two years of doing this I had gutful and went back to industry.

I then developed an eye complaint that left me unable to work in dust and dirt - yep an environment pretty hard to avoid working in the horticulture industry! Later due to the eye complaint I also became legally blind without rigid gas permeable contact lenses not so good in dust and dirt either. So I had to retrain. I went on to study a Bachelor of Communications; from there I progressed to do an Honour year. Now I am pretty close to finishing a PhD on Asperger's Syndrome. If I could still see properly and go back to my tools and work in the horticulture industry again - yep I would in a flash. So I am a semi-reluctant academic who loves Land Rovers because they are 1) like big Meccano sets; and 2) like the tractors that I used to work with in horticulture. I still have a 4WD tractor and Land Rovers are more comfortable than the tractor.

Well I suppose that is more than my two cents worth.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[uninformed]

I have a BS in BS

[bob10]

I have a BS in BS

BS has a place in modern society, especially in politics. Bob

[uninformed]

BS has a place in modern society, especially in politics. Bob

most of those have done their phd in BS ;)

[CraigE]

No general Diploma levels on the poll, Lots of cert2,3,4s, Dip in Paramedical Science, Dip in OHS, Trade Cert.

[uninformed]

I also have an adv cert in building tech and am licenced to drive upto 60t mobile crane :eek:

[tonic]

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=47020&stc=1&d=1337425770

These were broken

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=47021&stc=1&d=1337425972

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=47022&stc=1&d=1337426179

My son does not care how smart I am, he just cares that I could fix his Thomas table, so what really matters? I have a dip marketing, 2 x cert 4 in management. What really matters. You should see me sons face when I fixed the table:D

[Reads90]

Well not much in the way of qualifications.

Have 2 GCSE's

But I am a floor layer/ carpet fitter by trade

[Plane Fixer]

I have ticked the tradies box because that is what I am as I did a five year apprenticeship with TAA back in the old days.
Having been in the aviation trade for over 46 years I have worked very hard to get all of the license endorsements which enable me to certify an aircraft release to service. I can certify airframe, engine, instrument and electrical.
I have done over 55 exams which have to be passed at 75% and all backed with a certified log of experience.
My job has taken me to places and have had experiences the average person could not dream about and generally been well paid to do it, mostly overseas in the last 30 years.
I am still a tradesman and proud to call myself one as well. I am still active in the industry I have a passion for.
It is not the occupation one does but how you carry out the job you do and your pride in doing so to benefit the society we live in.
Luckily for the world there are people with such diverse interests and skills who do jobs I could not do. I could not stomach the thought of becoming a hairdresser, barrista, barrister, or work in an office and vice versa but are so necessary in our daily life.
We are a group of people from all walks of life who own an iconic brand of car, and again for various reasons.
For me I was looking for comfort, safety, driveability and something not totally mainstream like a Toyota L200, and I have found it in my Disco 4 as it is the best all-round car I have ever had. I also saved hard for it.
It is so good that this site has such a diversity and that we can celebrate it too and are bonded by the car we own.

[uninformed]

well said Plane fixer, and thanks for keeping loved ones safe :cool:

[WhiteD3]

Interesting poll. I'm surprised (but I don't have a reason why) at the high proportion of tertiary educated people here. For some reason I expected them to be a small minority and to see a greater number of tradies.

Maybe LR's are a great leveller!

For the record I'm both and not good at either :angel:

[Ferret]

Actually, I'm surprised at the very low level of apprentices being reported. Much of industry just does not function without trade skills and apprenticeships are pretty much the only route to the development and replacement of those skills.

[Bushie]

Actually, I'm surprised at the very low level of apprentices being reported. Much of industry just does not function without trade skills and apprenticeships are pretty much the only route to the development and replacement of those skills.

Probably more to do with the stage of life, I would almost bet that the number of tertiary quals also gives an indication of the 'average' age of our landy owners, I would think that Landy ownership is the realm of those 'slightly older' (but not old, either age or mind) who would have finished their apprenticeship.



Martyn

[d3syd]

Probably more to do with the stage of life, I would almost bet that the number of tertiary quals also gives an indication of the 'average' age of our landy owners, I would think that Landy ownership is the realm of those 'slightly older' (but not old, either age or mind) who would have finished their apprenticeship.



Martyn

I think you're right there. If you did a poll on Hilux ownership, bet you'd find heaps of apprentices....

[strangy]

Despite quals as an "Aeroplane Driver" , I still ticked Trades.
With 2 trades and a couple of Post trade quals (outside of aviation), I have always found this has helped me better understand and operate the aircraft. Its what I was first qualified for and has been a solid foundation for everything I have done since.

I sometimes find when in a social setting, I will tell some about my Trade quals. if asked and others about my Aviation. Not to decieve anyone, but sometimes the conversation can just evaporate depending on the crowd and their perceptions. Anyone else find this?

cheers

[WhiteD3]

I sometimes find when in a social setting, I will tell some about my Trade quals. if asked and others about my Aviation. Not to decieve anyone, but sometimes the conversation can just evaporate depending on the crowd and their perceptions. Anyone else find this?

cheers

Depending on the audience and (my perception of) their understanding of technology I'm:

A ) A sparky
B ) A project manager
C ) In building automation
D ) In computers

If asked about qualifications I usually stick to being a sparky. Owning up to an MBA can get a response ranging from a total lack of interest to a diatribe on the evils of management and managers in general.

[stuee]

Depending on the audience and (my perception of) their understanding of technology I'm:

A ) A sparky
B ) A project manager
C ) In building automation
D ) In computers



This sounds familiar. I'm in much the same situation, sometimes its easier to say I'm in IT with certain types as they know better any way. Others will sometimes quite happily sit there and listen to me babble on about what I do.

[Beckford]

Actually, I'm surprised at the very low level of apprentices being reported. Much of industry just does not function without trade skills and apprenticeships are pretty much the only route to the development and replacement of those skills.

I work for a commercial construction company.

The truth is very few apprentices are employed these days on our sites.

It would good if one apprentice was employed by every trade on every site. That would be the start of the solution to youth unemployment.

[Beckford]

Depending on the audience and (my perception of) their understanding of technology I'm:

A ) A sparky
B ) A project manager
C ) In building automation
D ) In computers

If I go to a BBQ and are asked what I do I normally say "Builder".

Then after getting asked to build's somebody's house I have to explain I am actually a Contract Administrator. Yes I am still a builder, but only do 1/10th of the total job of say a small builder. At this point I go and get another beer.....

In terms of qualifications I have a BBCM (hons) but this not my highest qualification. My 10+ years experience working in my current role is the most important!!!

In terms of Land Rovers I have done a Basic Driver Training Course and a Recovery Course. Still a beginner when it comes to 4wdriving...

[stock]

Started wrench bending at 14, finished second level, aeronautics, plant operation all levels, professional Diploma 2yrs part time at Uni, Then crash a level 8 4year degree into two years................As well as the school of hard knocks and the university of life...........

[isuzutoo-eh]

I past me driver lisense test not from the seral packet wich wun do i chose?

[Ferret]

I suggest you seek some english qualifications before making your final decision but since I don't know what an 'LLB' is and not many people seem to have it, how about just choosing that. :D

[isuzurover]

I suggest you seek some english qualifications before making your final decision but since I don't know what an 'LLB' is and not many people seem to have it, how about just choosing that. :D

Take your pick:

LLB (disambiguation)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

LLB may refer to:

Bachelor of Laws
Lemon, Lime and Bitters, the drink
Little League Baseball, the youth sports organization
Laboratoire Leon Brillouin, the national French neutron research reactor
L.L. Bean, an outdoors equipment manufacturer
Laurence Llewelyn-Bowen, British interior designer and TV personality

[Scallops]

Both a Law degree (LLB ) and Medical degree (MBBS) are actually Bachelor degrees, so I wonder why they get their own category?

[isuzurover]

Both a Law degree (LLB ) and Medical degree (MBBS) are actually Bachelor degrees, so I wonder why they get their own category?

You are correct, however most bachelor's degrees take 3-4 years. An MBBS is effectively 2 bachelor's degrees. I forget the duration of a typical LLB???

In short, I had 10 spots to fill. ;)

Though given all the complaints, it seems I should have filled them with options like:

x - I have a degree from the school of hard knocks
x - I think anyone with formal qualififcations is a ******

:D

[Scallops]

Ah, well, if you want to know how long it took me I'm not telling! :D

[solmanic]

Both a Law degree (LLB ) and Medical degree (MBBS) are actually Bachelor degrees, so I wonder why they get their own category?

... And it takes longer to get a Architecture degree!

[solmanic]

Actually surely the highest degree would be a pilots license - yuk yuk.

[Scallops]

... And it takes longer to get a Architecture degree!

Only 'cos you were chasing all the girls around...:D

[isuzurover]

... And it takes longer to get a Architecture degree!

Only because architecture degrees don't have prerequisites so they need to teach you enough engineering not to be dangerous ;)

(or so you design something that can actually be built)

:wasntme:

[Ralph1Malph]

In terms of qualifications I have a BBCM (hons) but this not my highest qualification. My 10+ years experience working in my current role is the most important!!!

In terms of Land Rovers I have done a Basic Driver Training Course and a Recovery Course. Still a beginner when it comes to 4wdriving...

I didn't know what a BBCM was so I googled it. You either have a Bachelor of Building Construction Management degree with Honours or have something to do with the Betty Brinn Children's Museum which is dedicated to providing interactive exhibits and educational resources that promote the healthy development of children. Both are good!:D:p

[uninformed]

Only because architecture degrees don't have prerequisites so they need to teach you enough engineering not to be dangerous ;)

(or so you design something that can actually be built)

:wasntme:

I seriously wish I could make as many simple mistakes, supply lack of detail and information and still get paid what they do :angel:

[uninformed]

hey Ben, we are all *******. Some will admit it, some will be proud of it and some will lie about it.....;)

[Lotz-A-Landies]

... And it takes longer to get a Architecture degree!I may be a little confused, IIRC Architecture is a post graduate degree and takes 2 years years on top of a 3 or 4 year Architectural studies/honours degree or equivalent making 5 years.

LLB is the equivalent of a 3 year degree taken with another degree over 5 years. But to practice Law you also have to take post graduate studies at the College of Law.

How are either of those longer than the 6 year double degree MBBS?