Transmission fault/HDC fault

[jacknnick]

I have these faults showing on our D3, anyone had the same? What was the outcome? Expensive fix? Have turned the vehicle off and the faults comes back, have disconnected and cleaned battery terminals but faults come back. Any help appreciated.

[bbyer]

If you are lucky, you have a defective tail light bulb, (note defective, not burned out), or perhaps a defective brake light switch.

The link below is one of many related to the kind of problems that the brake light switch can cause. You can use the search function and put in "+brake +switch" as a search term, (leave out the "".

Generally the more conflicting error messages you get, the better. There is no message for defective bulbs or brake light switches, hence ..... You may also be getting Cruise Control not operative as well as the HDC not available etc.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/136629-hdc-transmission-suspension-failure-indicator.html

[jacknnick]

Thanks very much, very helpful and appreciated.

[Mike_S]

The other main culprit for this message is a dying battery. It'll still start the car but the voltage is isn't great, so it chucks up these faults. New battery and all is well again.

[jacknnick]

Have checked the battery, all good. We recently had a hayman reese brake controller fitted to the vehicle, they had dramas with it as well. Took the auto sparkies most of a day to complete the job after they stated it would take 1.5 hours max. I wonder whether this is interfereing with the brake sensor.

[NavyDiver]

I have these faults showing on our D3, anyone had the same? What was the outcome? Expensive fix? Have turned the vehicle off and the faults comes back, have disconnected and cleaned battery terminals but faults come back. Any help appreciated.

Hi Jack, my D3 brake lights used to bite me too often with similar faults to you. New brake light switch, LED globes and disconnecting my trailer brake controler no problems. I would get the battery and alternator checked as well. Search posts on any of these topics would give you a gold mine of data to look at.

[Discophil]

Hi Jack I had similar situation. Ended up having a wheel alignbment done and problem has not returned...yet!

[Mully]

+1 for battery/alternator but the bulb issue can be the culprit for sure... good luck.

[Ivan]

Had exactly the same problems on my D3. Transmission fault, couldn't use command shift, and HDC fault. I replaced the brake switch and have had no problems since.

HTH

Ivan

[trevorj]

+1 for the brake light switch; early MY11 D4.
Replaced 6mo ago; no further problems.

[400HPONGAS]

Ive Had 4 different D3's do that , everyone one of them was the Brake light switch . Make sure the switch that goes in has FOMOCO stamped into it,and is not just another Landrover job .Also check /retighten/clean both of the rear earth points that the Brake lights use .

[Stuart02]

+1 for the brake light switch; early MY11 D4.
Replaced 6mo ago; no further problems.

So the D4s do it too? Did they cover it under warranty? You must have barely been out of the sale room!

[shining]

same same..brake light switch. In fact got it to go away for a while by disassembling and cleaning switch mechanism. Temporary fix only.

[jonesy63]

I have a MY11 D4 2.7, and it had a faulty brake light switch. This was the second time I had taken it offroad - and it was an extreme case of what can happen! The faults thrown on the dash were:
emergency brake assist not available; gearbox fault; HDC not available; and park brake fault.

Not pretty - the car lowers - "for your safety" :angel::mad:

It is a good idea to take a video or photo of the fault messages - then LR can't refute the issues. I have such a video and no issues with warranty.

BTW - this fault occurred on the road into the 4WD area.

[discotwinturbo]

Where is the brake light switch located....is it under the brake pedal ?
Brett....

[bbyer]

The link below relates to me changing the brake light switch on my 2005 LR3.

I think the D4 is about the same, ignoring the variations due to the location of the steering wheel. Like all things Land Rover, replacement is easier the second time around, but I can say that very little of my blood was spilled in the learning experience.

DISCO3.CO.UK Photo Gallery - Brake Light Switch Replacement (http://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=5082)

What does bother me is it sounds like these newer brake switches may not be improved versions but merely just new. Is the switch another one of those pieces to add to the spares kit?

[discotwinturbo]

The link below relates to me changing the brake light switch on my 2005 LR3.

I think the D4 is about the same, ignoring the variations due to the location of the steering wheel. Like all things Land Rover, replacement is easier the second time around, but I can say that very little of my blood was spilled in the learning experience.

DISCO3.CO.UK Photo Gallery - Brake Light Switch Replacement (http://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=5082)

What does bother me is it sounds like these newer brake switches may not be improved versions but merely just new. Is the switch another one of those pieces to add to the spares kit?

Googling the part number XKB500110, shows genuine and non genuine...maybe non genuine is better. Seems to be the same part number for the D4 and RRS.
I am going to purchase one.....just in case.
Brett...

[Timj]

Hi All,

I have these errors coming up and have had the fuel gauge sender in the tank replaced and the fuel pump in the tank replaced due to hard errors on both of those. But the errors are still coming up. If the brake sender or brake lights are an issue will it happen even when not touching the brakes? Mine seems to always happen when putting the accelerator foot down, usually on slight rises and has even happened when the cruise control was on and accelerated for a rise. I have a Tekonsha P3 brake controller that usually stays in the car and connected but it has happened with and without a trailer, today it happened with the boat trailer which has override brakes so the controller is not being used.

Thanks,

TimJ.

[bbyer]

Yes, the problem exists even when one does not have ones foot on the brake, actually I think maybe it would not happen if one "rode" the brake.

If you find the stop lamp switch S215 on the pdf below, you will see that while the set of contacts that operates the actual brake light filaments is normally open, the second set of contacts is normally closed and allows signal to the ABS module D277. From there, like Sarah Island, there is no escape.

Also you will note how the Hill Decent relay R222 ties into the tail light circuit so that is why you end up with HDC error messages and Cruise Control not available.

DISCO3.CO.UK Photo Gallery - Brake Light Switch Replacement/Stop Light Lamp Circuit pdf (http://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?album=5082&pos=7)

This will never happen on a Series Rover or a recent Land Cruiser as neither has Hill Decent circuitry. As for Anti Lock brakes, it was never clear that the Series units really needed brakes; for current LC production, Antilock Brakes may still be on the "Available" list of options.

[jonesy63]

Is the switch another one of those pieces to add to the spares kit?

Yes - I am definitely getting one for the spares kit, for my upcoming trip to remote areas.

[~Rich~]

Heh Rob are you just going to buy one locally?
I'm after one too. ;)

[Nomad9]

Hi there,
Electric brake controller, I had no end of problems until I wired it into the trailer connection in the back left hand side of the vehicle, never had a problem since. Also shorted out the tranny module once when I washed the engine bay out, that was a steep learning curve.......... Thank goodness for Faultmate MSV2 I say.

[brad72]

I have had the gearbox fault, emergency park brake and suspension faults come up a few times in my D4 and the culprit was a badly adjusted brake pedal switch.

These same faults as other have said can be reproduced if you depress the brake pedal and accelerator at the same time, confusing the computer and bringing up errors.

[jonesy63]

Heh Rob are you just going to buy one locally?
I'm after one too. ;)

Hi Rich - yes, will ring around tomorrow.

Let me see... 8 pounds in UK... about $20 in USA... what do you reckon they will be here? I had better have one last drink -before I sell a kidney. :D

Cheers,
Rob

[discotwinturbo]

Hi Rich - yes, will ring around tomorrow.

Let me see... 8 pounds in UK... about $20 in USA... what do you reckon they will be here? I had better have one last drink -before I sell a kidney. :D

Cheers,
Rob

With postage from the uk it comes to about 35, or from the us 40 all up.
Brett...

[jonesy63]

Rich - just rang my local dealer (man!) and it is about $27 and they have them in stock. :cool:

[~Rich~]

Thx Rob, I'll contact my local mechanic then. ;)

[jacknnick]

Thanks everyone for your help, especially bbyer and 400HPonGas. Bought the new replacement brake light switch on Ebay Australia from landy_bits2010 part# XKB 500110 for $35 came within two days, took about 25 seconds to fit it, all the alarms have gone away. Thanks very much.:)

[Timj]

I haven't been so lucky, fitted a new switch yesterday and replaced the blown brake light that I didn't even realise was blown and today I got the errors more often than I ever have before. Previously it would pretty much fault once then be ok for a while, this time it went three times very quickly while on the Gateway motorway so I got off and headed back home and it still went another couple of times on the way home. Took the gear I had in the back out and into the Series 3 Game and off we went again, no faults in that one at least :).

Is there anything else that can cause these errors together, Transmission fault, HDC fault, Suspension fault? It is always in the same situation, hill or slight rise, put the foot down to get up it and everything dies and goes into limp mode. Pull over, turn the car off for a few seconds, start it up and off you go again until the next time.

Thanks,

TimJ.

[Graeme]

I haven't been so lucky, fitted a new switch yesterday and replaced the blown brake light that I didn't even realise was blown and today I got the errors more often than I ever have before.
You might want to have someone follow you to be sure that your brake lights aren't coming on of their own accord due to incorrect switch adjustment. You could also try using cruise control when possible to see if it cancels itself.

[bbyer]

Are you using LR supplied bulbs in both the signal lights and the brake/tail lights?

I almost think you are succeeding. If replacing one of the burned out rear bulbs effectively made the situation worse, then I think you are nearing a solution. Even if all the bulbs are Land Rover bulbs, consider changing all of them front and rear including those little W3W sidelight bulbs that I think you also have within the front and rear light assemblies, (in the NAS assemblies anyway).

The toughest rear signal light problem I ever had on a Chev was fixed by replacing a front signal light bulb that seemed OK. Either something internal was wrong with the bulb or just corrosion in the socket that replacement resolved, but all was well at the back after a front bulb was changed.

In the case of the 3, the computers monitor the signal light filaments, hence a signal light bulb can cause a fuss. Alternatively, pull all the bulbs out and go for a drive.

As I said, I think you are nearing a solution. By the way, did you pull the removed brake light switch apart? I bet there is back dust from deteriorating contacts within. In other words, the switch needed replacement, but you have more than one problem present.

[Timj]

Thanks Guys,

Just pulled the switch apart and yes, there is dust from one of the contacts. I can't get any new bulbs from Landrover till tomorrow so I will wait till then to try replacing them all. I don't know if the bulb used was a genuine Landrover one or not as I got it changed at an independent who has been doing the work on my car since it came out of warranty.

This car has been very reliable for me for 4 years so it is a real disappointment to have this kind of thing happening but I am hoping that it is as simple as changing bulbs, I will also make sure the switch is seated properly and see if the lights are coming on at the right time if I can.

Cheers,

TimJ.

[adzee]

So if you changed the bulb in the D3 what ones(LED version/part #) did you get? I thought if you changed to LED it would disrupt the computer checks or something and u couldn't do it? I am keen to swap them cause I have gone through 3 globes in 7 months...

I swear by having a spare brake light switch in the glove box! ;)

[bbyer]

I know some owners replace their P21/5 bulbs with some variation of a LED and resistor, but for me, that is like wishing for an unplanned walk in the noon day sun.

I have considered replacing the P21/5 bulbs with the more common North American 1157 but so far have shied away from even that for fear of upsetting the monitoring systems. This is probably paranoia, and would solve the problem of the limited filament design life of the P21/5 bulb that is exaggerated by the fact the electrical system in the 3 runs at closer to 14 volts than 12 VDC.

The filament life of both the tail light and the brake light filaments in the P21/5 bulb is significantly less than the USA common 1157 dual filament bulb, (1000/250 vs 5000/1200 hours); brightness of the P21/5 is a bit more, (3/35 vs 3/32 candle power), but oddly, current consumption is less, (0.44/1.86 vs 0.59/2.10 amps).

It is the quest for efficiency vs maintenance trade off. It appears Land Rover regards your labour and expense to change bulbs as a worthwhile trade off in their quest for what they see as efficiency.

[DDdisco]

I got the faults mentioned, plus a couple more. After new battery, new ECU, and a couple of other things, it ended up being the high pressure fuel pump.

Cheers.

[gghaggis]

brightness of the P21/5 is a bit more, (3/35 vs 3/32 candle power), but oddly, current consumption is less, (0.44/1.86 vs 0.59/2.10 amps).


?? If I read that correctly, you're saying 3/35 is greater than 3/32? Surely it's the other way around?

Cheers,

Gordon

[bbyer]

Too much short form I guess;probably should have written (3cp/35cp) and (0.44a / 1.86a) where cp is candlepower and a is amps.

What I intended to convey is 3 candle power brightness for the tail light filaments on either bulb and for the P21/5, 35 candlepower for the stop light filament contrasted with 32 candlepower of brightness for the brake light filament within the 1157 bulb. In reality, both are about the same, the real difference is in the amp draw. Incidentally I can find bulb specs out there that have somewhat different amp, candlepower, and hours values for the same generic bulb number. That bothers me as it tends to argue for the factory part number bulbs given that it seems there are not only manufacturing variations, but specification differences to what a given bulb may yield.

Both filaments in the P21/5 bulb draw less power than each of the filaments in the 1157. I figure the additional current draw of the 1157 would not be a problem for the conductors, but I am still afraid, (my paranoia?), of the contacts in the brake light switch.

I am not convinced that the contacts in even the replacement brake light switch are that much better designed. I wonder if even an extra short term load of about half an amp total on the brake light contacts would not adversely affect those contacts, particularly when the load is always make and break rather than sort of continuous.

[NavyDiver]

I haven't been so lucky, fitted a new switch yesterday and replaced the blown brake light that I didn't even realise was blown and today I got the errors more often than I ever have before. Previously it would pretty much fault once then be ok for a while, this time it went three times very quickly while on the Gateway motorway so I got off and headed back home and it still went another couple of times on the way home. Took the gear I had in the back out and into the Series 3 Game and off we went again, no faults in that one at least :).

Is there anything else that can cause these errors together, Transmission fault, HDC fault, Suspension fault? It is always in the same situation, hill or slight rise, put the foot down to get up it and everything dies and goes into limp mode. Pull over, turn the car off for a few seconds, start it up and off you go again until the next time.

Thanks,

TimJ.

How old is your battery? Alternator &/or battery might be nect to check if it is not your brake lights.

[Timj]

Battery is pretty new so shouldn't be an issue. Charging seems ok but haven't really checked it properly. But today I changed all four of the brake/park lights for genuine Landrover ones that come in bags marked "Made in Slovakia" and are Osram. Two of the bulbs that were in there were Phillips and made in France and two were made in China with no brand. The one put in on Friday was one of the China ones and had a bit of corrosion so is very suspect. Took it for a drive and no errors so far, but it has done that before. Time will tell I suppose :).

TimJ.

[bbyer]

Slovakia/Osram seems to be supplier for all the small quality Land Rover bulbs, however the Philips from France may also be OEM as they supply the xenon HID headlight bulbs.

You might also want to see what in installed in the front for signal light bulbs and perhaps look at the backup light bulbs as well. Re the backup light bulbs, the only common element with the other bulbs is on the ground side, but it is on the ground side where I have had real problems when troubleshooting indicator light problems - corrosion and all.

If you now look thru the red plastic of the rear tail light assemblies, with the genuine bulbs, you should see that all the filaments are standing vertical - that is standing up and down. This is part of the design as the filaments are stronger when standing vertical. When the filaments fail, there is also less chance of the failed filament falling across the other filament and creating an odd sort of short circuit.

[Guppy]

Hi all,
I had the same turn of events and faults and even a complete power failure. Occured over 3 days - Checked and found a loose battery terminal.
All good for now

[NavyDiver]

Hi All,

I have these errors coming up and have had the fuel gauge sender in the tank replaced and the fuel pump in the tank replaced due to hard errors on both of those. But the errors are still coming up. If the brake sender or brake lights are an issue will it happen even when not touching the brakes? Mine seems to always happen when putting the accelerator foot down, usually on slight rises and has even happened when the cruise control was on and accelerated for a rise. I have a Tekonsha P3 brake controller that usually stays in the car and connected but it has happened with and without a trailer, today it happened with the boat trailer which has override brakes so the controller is not being used.

Thanks,

TimJ.
Tekonsha P3 brake controller on my D3 and a another car had the brake lights staying on Tekonsha agent has offered to replace both my units! Un plug it and I bet your problem goes away. It is intermitent so you might hang onto it like I have or seek a refund. Just do not leave it pluged in!

[NavyDiver]

So if you changed the bulb in the D3 what ones(LED version/part #) did you get? I thought if you changed to LED it would disrupt the computer checks or something and u couldn't do it? I am keen to swap them cause I have gone through 3 globes in 7 months...

I swear by having a spare brake light switch in the glove box! ;)

see my post (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/145750-d3-led-rear-lights-brake-tail-blinker.html)and the links other people kindly provided. My LED globe and other people who have them give me no problems. Love them and love that the issues which occured every 50k or so when a globe went such as DSC, Gear box, Suspension and just about every thing else that good be reported are a thing of the past for me now and only an issue for those of you who haven't replaced your globes with LED yet to chat about :cool:
Hint - Get the white LED globes do not bother with the red for LED stop or tail lights.

[Timj]

Tekonsha P3 brake controller on my D3 and a another car had the brake lights staying on Tekonsha agent has offered to replace both my units! Un plug it and I bet your problem goes away. It is intermitent so you might hang onto it like I have or seek a refund. Just do not leave it pluged in!

Still having the problems having changed all four bulbs for genuine ones and disconnecting the brake controller. There are a couple of errors being recorded that suggest there might be a problem with fuel pressure in the injectors or fuel rail. Being investigated at the moment, though why they would cause these three errors is unclear, they seem to be the catch all errors, if you can't be certain then give em every error you can. Would be funny except it isn't. :mad:

Cheers,

TimJ.

[Ashes]

I get this fault reported reasonably often, perhaps once a month or so and it does seem to be pretty random. I haven't bothered replacing lights or switches to try and clear it as reading on the subject seems to show it is general unexplained condition somewhere and the error codes don't pinpoint it. LR also seem to ignore the codes during services and I haven't pushed the point with them to try and fix it. I suspect a lot of sensors etc would be replaced and it will still occur so until I know exactly what causes it I won't replace stuff.

Whilst I can clear the fault by restarting the car and the warning lights goes off after several starts and stops during the day this is a worry.
What I fear most is that a "real" fault with the transmission will occur one day and it will be dismissed by the other half as the same thing occurring and some serious damage will be done.

A bit like the boy who cried wolf.

[bbyer]

I can understand you not wanting to start replacing parts willy nilly - chasing false error messages so to say.

For me, it was every winter when it got cold, I would start to get transmission, cruise control and HDC error messages. When the weather finally warmed up by June, the messages would cease for a couple of months or so until it again cooled down a bit.

In frustration, I finally changed out the brake light switch myself because it was easy and cheap to do. Now this winter and to date, no false messages any longer. The link below is to my gallery where I have some pictures and install instructions for the brake light switch. Regardless of where the steering wheel is, the switch will be near the brake pedal.

I might add that all my bulbs were genuine LR and that all lights were working fine so changing the switch really seemed like an act of faith or more correctly, nothing ventured, nothing gained. This time, I figure I won.

DISCO3.CO.UK Photo Gallery - Brake Light Switch Replacement (http://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=5082)

[Ashes]

Actually the switch is the one component I was thinking of changing. Might change that from thinking to actually doing in the near future.

[bbyer]

Regarding the brake light switch, I have a theory that while the switch appears to be working just fine, it is responsible for creating spurious signals that lead to the false error messages.

Within the switch, the set of contacts that is normally open operates the brake lights; the other set of contacts that is normally closed sends signals to the ABS module.

I theorize that dust from the deteriorating brake light set of contacts fouls the ABS contacts and leads to intermittent operation of the ABS contacts during normal driving particularily when one is not using the brakes. Since the ABS circuit communicates with the Hill Decent circuitry and that affects the transmission and engine controls, then anything is possible. For the most part, we are fortunate that all we get are false error messages and threatened system shut downs.

As to why other vehicles do not seem to suffer this malady, well no other vehicle, (except maybe some Jeeps just recently), has a Hill Decent system.

[Graeme]

As to why other vehicles do not seem to suffer this maladyLR seem to like to cross-check their mechanical switches. The D2 ABS modulator uses resistors across the contacts of 2 series switches so that the correct or otherwise operation of the switches can be detected. The D3/4 brake light switches are another example of cross-checking a mechanical switch. However its likely that when the contacts for operating the brake lights get corroded and worn with use due to switching the power to the globes, they don't make and break cleanly or with the same precision as the other set of contacts which stay in good condition because they have basically no load, as the ecu draws only a very low current. Hence the ecu gets mixed indicators as to whether the brake pedal has been pressed or not. If LR wasn't trying to be so perfect and only used the brake light power as the indicator then there would never be a problem, excepting that when the contacts corrode sufficiently then there would be no indication to the ecu that the pedal was pressed. I prefer the extra checking but there could be a better indication that the brake light switch must be faulty.

[bvs]

Transmission Fault, HDC not available, Park Brake fault, all whilst the dash lights up like a Christmas tree and the suspension lowers. Thank goodness for AULRO. After reading other's experiences, I felt great relief that I wasn't seeing something terminal.:)
I checked battery terminals and globes. Replacing the brake light switch has definitely fixed the problem.
Bought the switch off ebay from Landybits for $45.
Notably the old switch is numbered XKB 5000 30, whilst the new switch is numbered XKB 5001 10. Both switches are FoMoCo and look identical otherwise.

[jonesy63]

Bought the switch off ebay from Landybits for $45.

Or $28 if you can walk into a Land Rover dealership parts department.:angel::cool:

[Ashes]

Replaced my brake control switch today so hopefully will be error free for a while to confirm this. I used the guide provided by bbyer a few posts back and it is spot on.
Took longer to pull the old switch apart than replace it.
There was some black powder in the assembly and you could see where the internal contacts were rubbing. Obviously the old switch was still working but I guess it was possible it could fault ocassionally. Time will tell.

[Graeme]

Perhaps clean-up the old switch using contact cleaner to swap back when the new one starts to go.

[bbyer]

Cleaning the contacts has merit, particularily if somewhat distant from a LR dealer. An alternative to consider that just may be viable is to use the Ford part number for the switch which I presume would be available from or thru a Ford Australia dealer. The 2008 and 2009 Ford Fusions used the same switch as do our 3's, and I guess now the 4 as well.

There are two Ford Motorcraft part numbers for the switch as follows:

SW-6572 and 7E5Z-13480-A

[elsey]

Cleaning the contacts has merit, particularily if somewhat distant from a LR dealer. An alternative to consider that just may be viable is to use the Ford part number for the switch which I presume would be available from or thru a Ford Australia dealer. The 2008 and 2009 Ford Fusions used the same switch as do our 3's, and I guess now the 4 as well.

There are two Ford Motorcraft part numbers for the switch as follows:

SW-6572 and 7E5Z-13480-A

I recently bought a spare from my local dealer and when I took it out of the Land Rover box and had a look at it, it clearly had FoMoCo stamped on the back of it.

Lou...

[Ashes]

Got the faults again this morning with the new brake switch. Actually it repeated a couple of times before it cleared. New switch didn't fix the problem. If it actually occurs more frequently with a new switch probably means it is switch related. Will need to monitor for the next month or so.

[mcmanusd]

Multiple faults are also caused by a dirty MAP sensor -
see DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Engine System Fault (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic63478-45.html)
Symptoms will be loss of power, multiple fault messages (HDC, Park Brake, Transmission, Limited gears), lowered suspension etc.
May occur once or several times in short succession and then may be OK for a few days of weeks but will gradually become more frequent.
Easy to clean as described in the link above so worth doing to eliminate it as a cause of problems.

[SBD4]

Just read the linked post in the disco3 forum. A couple of the guys talk about the benefits of adding 2So to their tanks when they fill up. what do you think? Any down sides to doing this?


...
This morning I checked the MAP sensor as a matter of routine servicing and again it was sqeeky clean. So yes 2sO works and helps the friendly D3 owner to prevent unloading unnecessary repair $,£, ZAR etc at the stealers.

Our vehicle had the dreaded HPFP/Injector collapse in Botswana last year at 130'000km and came back to Pretoria on a low-bed truck. I advised the previous owner at that time to start using 2sO and despite various trips to Botswana, Zim, Zambia etc with its notoriously bad (paraffin spiking!!) diesel, there has never been an issue again with lubricity related problems. An added benefit of using 2sO is the fantastic internal cleaning properties of 2sO (removal of carbon deposits)!!!

I am using the Sasol 2sO, as it is Jaso-FC graded and available at every Sasol station in the country. If I do longer overland trips I carry a supply of those bottles (200ml) with me. On the D3 I use 200ml per tank and on the 300Tdi 500ml per tank.

On the 300Tdi there is a marked increase in performance with a corresponding drop in smoke when running at a 1:200 ratio.
...

[Ashes]

More faults this evening that took a couple of goes to bypass. Seems problem is worse with a new brake switch. Does this mean the plug or some sort of feedback to the connector is a possible cause of the fault? Also seemed on a couple of times that the car didn't want to crank over. Stopped and started a few times after a 10 min drive and all good again.

or.... battery....

[~Rich~]

The guy that is leading my trip swears by it!
http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic79420.html
I have started using it, I have noticed less smoke when I plant my foot.
Only done 165k using the 2 stroke mixed with the diesel at 400ml per tank.
I use Castrol Activ 2 which is mineral based not synthetic.

[bbyer]

More faults this evening that took a couple of goes to bypass. Seems problem is worse with a new brake switch. Does this mean the plug or some sort of feedback to the connector is a possible cause of the fault? Also seemed on a couple of times that the car didn't want to crank over. Stopped and started a few times after a 10 min drive and all good again. or.... battery.... This is not good re the troubles continuing.

I doubt the new switch is defective, however you might remove it, unplug the electrical connector and just look at the pins to assure yourself that none are bent. I doubt it, however but since the problem is now worse, then I think the solution is somehow within the switch area. You might also with the vehicle parked and the engine idling, just try wiggling the harness right at the switch and see if any error messages pop up or the engine falters in some manner.

Also with the vehicle parked, if you still have the old switch, you could rotate it so that the contacts function, plug the harness in and manually press on the plunger to see if error messages reappear.

Before you do that however, you might back your 3 up near a store window somewhere so that you can check that all the brake lights including the one at the top of the upper hatch are working. Also I noted a comment in a previous post re cleaning the ground terminals at the rear for each of the two tail light assemblies. I have never done that as my tail lights are nice and bright. I do know that when I have had electrical problems with other vehicles, the problem has near always been ground side related, usually due to corrosion.

Just to confuse the issue, I presume the electro viscous fan attached to the radiator is sounding OK? I say "sounding" as about the only hint you might get of a problem with the fan clutch is a roaring noise at startup that does not soon stop and continues on for some time. I had a problem where the clutch would not disengage and that affected engine operation and starting - thought it was the battery or the key operated engine immobilizer and any number of other problems, but it was the intermittent electro viscous fan clutch compounded by a starter motor that was near the end of its useful life. It took me about a year to sort it out, but I never did have to walk.

[rangy]

Hi, I have recently joined and i am blown away at the amount of great content and technical advise.
My RRS 07 also lit up with HDC fault, Transmission fault, Suspension lowered & park brake). Took it to a Non dealer but a Land Rover specialist in Perth who loaded a software upgrade one of the modules. Drove off but it all came up again wih 10 mins. Went back and they suggested replacing the battery and i would of went with that except they did not have the 950cca battery in stock.
After reading the posts i purchased a brake switch, followed the post on how to and 10 mins later walla! No more faults coming up.
Great forums and thanks to all who contributes.
Cheers

[Ashes]

Got the car serviced last week, faults codes checked and cleared. No problems for a week now. Will keep monitoring..

[Timj]

Well it seems like my issues have finally been sorted, but probably need a bit more driving to be really confident. Turned out to be the high pressure fuel pump on the engine. Ended up buying one off ebay from Latvia of all places but quite a bit cheaper than here and arrived just fine. Got the car back this morning and everything seems to be running well. Still a bit reluctant to put the foot down or anything like that as I find I am just waiting for the faults but time will tell. So I had definite issues with the brake switch and bulbs but they weren't the real reason for the ongoing faults.

Cheers,

TimJ.

[bbyer]

Multiple faults - there often is more than one problem present when one goes to fix whatever. The minor faults do not really seem to be a problem until something else goes and then the minor ones confuse the troubleshooting attempts to find the primary problem.

It seems one then slowly discovers and resolves the minor problems and thinks the fix was the solution only to have the real problem continue until eventually one stumbles onto the primary cause.

I hope the pump is the solution and appreciate you keeping us up to date as that is how we all learn as most certainly we will be next.

[Ashes]

Got all the usual faults again last night so switch the ignition off to clear it. Turned the ignition back on and car wouldn't turn over at all.
Took the keys out again, waited a few seconds and then started it again fine.
SWMBO tried starting it this morning, got the fault lights again and she was unable to get the car to turn over after that even after 4 or 5 attempts. I've never had a problem starting the car when there are no fault lights but have had a problem starting it now 4 or 5 times after I get the fault lights. I'll have a look at it tonight and I'll bet it starts fine which doesn't help the troubleshooting:(

Is there something being registered by these faults that will prevent or "protect" the engine from being started?
Also had a couple of park brake faults over the last couple of weeks as well.

[bbyer]

Do you recall hearing the engine fan more than usual? By that I mean, the fan remains coupled to the engine rather than reverting to a sort of free wheeling state during normal operation.

I ask that as when I was having starting problems, (no real display of trouble lights or nasty messages, just clicking sounds and no start), part of the fix was to replace the electro viscous fan. (The main problem was eventually resolved by replacing the starting motor that did not yield any specific error codes.)

The electric clutch within the viscous fan takes its instructions from the engine computer rather than just sensing engine heat of the lack of it, was not alway de-clutching - at least that was what some of the dealer error codes suggested and also my ears. The reason I mention this is that there is an argument that says the engine computer will disallow an engine start if it thinks the engine cooling system will not work.

All your codes suggest a brake light circuit problem however you have installed a new switch and generally a switch problem does not inhibit engine starting - just maybe the air suspension or high speed vehicle operation.

Hence I bring up the matter of the engine cooling fan and if it sounds odd.

[Ashes]

I haven't noticed any other fan noises. I don't think it is a fuse as it doesn't happen every time although this latest time it could be terminal. I'll find out tonight when I get hoem.

I am however suspecting battery as it could explain all the symptoms and especially intermittent faults that seem to be occurring more frequently. It was also cold last night and quite cold here this morning when the fault occurs which leads me to battery again...(not Canada cold though:eek:). It may be occurring more frequently in the code weather.

I'll check the battery voltages tonight as the car has been sitting all day.

[Nomad9]

Hi Ashes,
I had something similar, didn't involve the fan thankfully. I had a few flashing lights and the engine was a bit sluggish to turn over. I got a new battery and everything has been fine since. One thing to watch though, the book tells you I think 750 amp hours, which is what I duly got.
When at the local LR agent last week they told me that the battery should really be a 900 amp hr especially 2006 2007 models apparently. Who am I to argue.... he had nothing to gain by telling me I wasn't going to buy another one. Not yet anyway, also I'm in the process of installing a dual battery system. We're going to a bit of a tootle around next year I'll put a 900 amp hr in before I go.
Something to bare in mind when and iff ypou buy a new battery.

[Ashes]

900 amp hours, that would be a big battery:D. Think you mean 900 CCA.
Car turned over tonight and started after resting during the day. Wouldn't start a 2nd time and very sluggish and all the faults came up. 99% certain it's a battery problem so will take it in LR to get the battery and charging system checked. Current battery has been in the car just over 2 years so would have expected a bit more from it. I have a dual battery so wondering if the 2nd battery has been helping it for a little while.
The battery in my digi multi meter is flat so couldn't measure it.

[bbyer]

The Interstate MTP-H8 series starting battery that I have in my 3 is rated by Interstate at 720 CCA and/or 900 CA. The reserve capacity is 176.

Below is my understanding of CCA and CA as well as RC.

The definition of the Cold-Cranking Amperage (CCA) of an automotive battery is the amount of current a given battery can deliver for 30 seconds at zero (0) degrees F, (-17.8C), without dropping below a specified cutoff voltage (manufacturer-specific, but usually 10.5 volts).

Marine Cranking Amps or Cranking Amps is a rating used to describe the discharge load in amperes which a new, fully charged battery at thirty two (32) degrees F, (0C), can continuously deliver for 30 seconds and maintain a terminal voltage equal or greater than 1.2 volts per cell.

Reserve Capacity, (RC) is a battery industry rating, defining a battery's ability to power a vehicle with no supplemental power. The rating is the number of minutes a battery at eighty (80) degrees F, (26.7C), can be discharged at 25 amps and maintain a voltage of 10.5 volts for a 12 volt battery. The higher the reserve rating, the longer your vehicle can operate should your alternator fail.

In summary my Interstate H8 sized battery is the LR spec battery. The RC of 176 suggests it is what would be regarded as a big battery for a car.

[Ashes]

Looks like the hdc faults etc. for me were symptoms of a problem about to occur. They were definately increasing before I got to the point where I was unable to start the car.
Measured the voltage on the batteries when the car was asleep and found the cranking battery at 12.1v and my 2nd battery at 12.3v. I also have a traxide SC40 that was flashing green. I would have thought 12.1v is enough to start the car though. It just gives that pathetic unable to turn the starter motor over sound.
Tried jumping it from the 2nd battery and got the same result. Have put it on the charger for a few hours and have 12.8v but wont start. Will leave it on overnight to give it a full charge but not hopeful. Starting to think it is a solenoid or starter motor problem now. Not sure how to tackle that.

I'll be interested to see if sorting out this starting/battery problem also fixes the faults (will get it looked at properly on Saturday if I can get the car started).

[bbyer]

While I did not get all the error messages, and never did I have to walk, first start in the morning was always a question mark. I would often get the growl and weak partial engine turnover and then silence on first try. Subsequently I would get a fairly loud click with each key rotation. After maybe ten attempts and clicks, the starter would grab and the engine start.

I eventually decided the click noise was the starter solenoid. I also think the problem which was resolved by replacing the starter motor complete was probably a defective starter solenoid rather than the actual motor.

To further complement the problem, each night I started putting the starter battery on my CTEK charger. Usually in the morning the prestart battery voltage would be 12.4 VDC and engine start on first attempt was almost a sure thing.

If I did not put the CTEK on, the battery voltage was closer to 12.1 VDC and I would often get the clicking. For the most part of the day, subsequent engine starts were routine. That is why I tended to discount the starter as being the problem but assumed it was some wiring or ignition key problem.

I also have the Traxide Dual setup but my green light was always solid green, not flashing, and that was with no external battery charge.

The bottom line was my alternator was OK, both batteries were OK; much to my surprise, the problem was resolved by installing a new starter motor. I say surprise as the problem seemed to be everything but the starter motor. I think that is because with the 3, there are so many systems that can be wrong, the simple fix, is the last considered.

My independent was able to replace the starter motor by removing a small heat shield accessible sort of at the rear of the right front wheel well, and without removing the wheel well plastic liner, (removed tyre/wheel of course). He also worked from underneath, a combination of the two access points.

[Ashes]

It's never as obvious as it might seem....
Got RACV out this morning to diagnose the fault as best they could and see if they could get the car started. They got the car going by cycling the locks a few times..imobiliser related problem. Battery, alternator and starter motor seemed fine.
This might be another clue for these HDC fault problems.

Got the car into LR after it was started as there was no guarantee I'd be able to start it again. Once there the car started ok but came up with the faults 3 out of the 4 times I restarted it. So definately something increasing.
LR found a few random fault codes including crank angle sensor which they know isn't the reason. They are looking to replace a ground cable with a new version as feedback/interference in the ground cable has been the cause of a number of these faults in other vehicles. Hopefully this is the fix for at least my car, possibly others with these random faults. Will let you know when I get it back.

[bbyer]

My petrol 4.4L V8 LR3 has two ground cables, the short one you see from the battery negative post to the bolt on the fender right near the battery and a second longer ground cable somewhere under the engine between the frame and going to the starter motor.

I did replace the short one between the battery and the fender, but to no avail as the problem was the starter. I just wondered which ground cable the dealer was referring to assuming the diesel units also have more than one ground cable.

[Ashes]

Based on the cost it sounds like the longer one.

[bbyer]

I do not know if one can compare prices across the oceans, and LH vs RH drive but the short one between the negative battery post and the fender was about sixty dollars plus tax from my LR dealer.

The part number was YTB500300 but that is for a left hand drive vehicle where the starting battery is located on the right side of the vehicle.

[Ashes]

The cable part number that I had replaced was LR026050 (EARTH LEAD 4.0 V6). Picked the car up today and have started it around 10 times with no faults being reported. So looks like this fixed the immediate problem. Time will tell if this fixes the random faults for good.

[bbyer]

Replacing that under the engine ground cable may be the solution - it is obscure enough so it sounds about right. Maybe it is common with all these new vehicles, but why a fix for some of these problems has to be so indirect, it really is a concern.

This is why with my starting problem, everything but the starter was looked at and the starter motor, while not forgotten, was last on the list of possible problem areas.

Hopefully in a few weeks you will beable to say that it looks like replacing the longer hidden under the engine ground cable that no one knows even exists was the fix for a starting problem.

Well done and good luck.

[Ashes]

Thought I'd report back 3 weeks after replacing the ground cable.

Faults completely dissapeared for a couple of weeks I thought..SWMBO forgot to tell me that they were still occurring. Happened again within a week of installing the cable, probably 3 or so time last week and today, occurred on 3 separate occassions. I think there is also a EPB fault as SWMBO reports there was screeching noise when shutting the car off today several times but can't quite describe it (EPB would be applied about the same time)
I've reported EPB concerns the last couple of visits but LR recon it checks out OK. I suspect this is part of the fault.

[brad72]

Just as a side note I have had the gearbox fault come up a few times if the engine did not start fully, for example by accidentally lifting my foot off the brake before full ignition was achieved. When the engine is started properly immediately afterward the gearbox fault appears and I then need to shut the engine down, restart, and the fault is cleared.

This again leads to a brake switch and software problem where the computer is getting it knickers in a twist.

[Ashes]

6 days now and no faults. Pretty much a record for the last few months.
Had the crank angle sensor replaced and fingers crossed....seems to have stopped the frequent faults. This sensor had been showing up on the fault codes but this is one that can give false readings.
According to the dealer, method of attack for the earlier D3 4.0 petrols with these problems (in this order) are battery, earth cables, crank angle sensor (if its showing faults) and then starter motor and one of these will usually fix it.
The other common reported fixes of globes, brake switch, steering angle sensor are not as applicable to the petrol compared to the diesels.
Hope this is the answer.

[Ashes]

Faults are back again after nearly 2 weeks of clear running
This is really @#$$ing me off. I could also barely start the car. Seemed to be a immobiliser problem as it took several locks and unlocks before i could get it to turnover. Just what you want day 1 of a 2 week touring holiday. I'm sure this is going ti leave us stranded somewhere!!!!

[Ashes]

Faults are actually a little different now. Getting just a HDC fault on a semi regular basis. Eg every 3rd or 4th start. This fault then seems to clear straight away as I can then turn HDC on without any probs. Posted in another thread about rear fogs turning on by themself. Not sure if this is related. Had no further probs starting the car. Also thought my passenger side rear parker was blown as it wasnt indicating when hitting the left indicator or locking/unlocking the car. But mysteriously is working again. I also will have to do a hard reset as I've lost the radio display when I had the starting problem earlier in the week. Didnt want to do the reset away from civilisation. Must be a few clues here as to what is going on?

[Ashes]

Faults are actually a little different now. Getting just a HDC fault on a semi regular basis. Eg every 3rd or 4th start. This fault then seems to clear straight away as I can then turn HDC on without any probs. Posted in another thread about rear fogs turning on by themself. Not sure if this is related. Had no further probs starting the car. Also thought my passenger side rear parker was blown as it wasnt indicating when hitting the left indicator or locking/unlocking the car. But mysteriously is working again. I also will have to do a hard reset as I've lost the radio display when I had the starting problem earlier in the week. Didnt want to do the reset away from civilisation. Must be a few clues here as to what is going on?

[Graeme]

G'day Ashes,
It sounds suspiciously like a faulty earth triggering a brake system fault that's then causing the bcu to inhibit starting. I'd be checking the earth post connections for the left rear light cluster (inside the cubby hole) and the globes' connections in the cluster itself. I'd also disconnect the DBS controller for a while to exclude it as a candidate just to be sure.

[bbyer]

I agree that the problem is starting to sound like corrosion and grounding concerns. I note that you changed the brake light switch but was unclear re the tail light bulbs, in particular the signal and brake light bulbs.

The business of the one rear signal light fixing itself is probably ground and corrosion related, however a filament could be near broken. If so, it may be generating out of norms resistance signals that are being picked up by the monitoring circuits and hence triggering faults.

I would certainly be replacing that one bulb and perhaps all the rear bulbs, but with genuine LR sourced bulbs rather than chain store bulbs due to quality control issues. I figure the LR bulbs go thru some sort of quality control test and the chain stores get the rejects.

I find a low battery/hard start situation can sometimes cause the radio display to disappear or display oddly. Usually for me, the display returns after a few normal engine restarts however on occasion, I have had to do the hard reset thing. Most recently, I recall having to do the hard reset just after the alternator was replaced but do not know why, just needed it.

The business of the rear fogs going on suggests corrosion. I have a theory that with each the rear light assembly grounds being sort of common, that if the ground was faulty, that power would flow "backwards" into many of the filaments. The backup lights are a case in particular and perhaps also the rear fogs as well, but I have never thought much about them.

Overall, it sounds like you are resolving the problems. I think that as is often the norm, there is more than one problem and hence that is what makes resolution so difficult.

[Ashes]

Rear earth point on the LH side is a possibility. I've had abrake controller wiring installed ther. We are camped here for 4 days so can disconnect the brake controller and check the wiring.

[Ashes]

Rear left indicator blew and has not been replaced.
Still getting just the HDC fault which clears straight away so possibly a trigger. May look at replacing all rear globes with genuine globes which I have not done yet. No further problems with not starting or the wider range of faults.

[bbyer]

It sounds like the rear indicator bulb or bulbs may be part of the problem. When you remove the burned out bulb, perhaps put an ohm meter across the contacts and see if any strange readings occur. The signal light filament should now show infinity. Maybe the numbers will now show nothing unusual but it would be interesting to check.

Per the links below, when Toyota has a brake light switch concern, you do do walk at the transmission interlock circuit can be affected.

Since we are now well conditioned to tolerate most of the LR nuisance warning lights and nasty messages, I guess this time, it is not as much of a nuisance as it could be. It also sounds like your problems are slowly getting resolved as solutions appear. Thanks for the updates.

Toyota Recalls Nearly 700,000 Vehicles for Potential Brake Light and Air-Bag Failures - NYTimes.com (http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/09/toyota-recalls-nearly-700000-vehicles-for-potential-brake-light-and-air-bag-failures/)

Toyota recalling 680,000 vehicles - Mar. 7, 2012 (http://money.cnn.com/2012/03/07/autos/toyota-recall/index.htm)

[Ashes]

Thanks.
Now back to getting multiple faults and car not turning over at times.

- car is not starting every time. Doesn't turn over at all. I suspect this could be a gear position sensor as I can put it in Neutral and it starts every time but in Park it does not reliably start.

- when I replaced the rear left indicator bulb the HDC fault dissapeared but a day later got all the regular faults occurring again but at least the indicator works.

I have noticed that in my bullbar I have a LED indicator light that isn't working. Not sure if in anyway this could be related but should get this fixed as a priority to eliminate that as a cause.

My brakes (pads/rotors) are also getting low so not sure if there is something there that could trigger faults the worse it gets.

Will look to replace all rear tail light globes next as this is relatively cheap and quick to do compared with what LR will charge to look at the problem.

The HDC faults I can live with, the starting problems are not so good.

[bbyer]

Consider disconnecting both front LED's. I do not know how a LED illuminates but it must be more complicated than a toaster element, basically what a filament bulb is.

A LED even when OK, inserted in the rear cluster can do strange things; but in the front and as supplemental signalling and when it is in good condition may not be seen by the monitoring systems. If however one of those LED's is defective, who knows what kind of signals it may be sending out.

You are making progress - yes probably the starting problem is related to the interlock - how one is supposed to figure out all these problems is beyond me.

Toyota had a similar problem that led to a recall of over two hundred thousand vehicles in the States - in this case, something about the brake light switch not telling the shift interlock it was OK for the engine to start.

[Ashes]

Bought a set of rear bulbs today from LR. Thought I'd take the time and test each one.
Firstly, managed to recreate the faults and failure to start very easily and regularly. Moved the car into the garage as it started to rain and repeated tests. Still faulting and failing to start regularly.
Removed the RH side rear light cluster and the first tail/brake globe I check is a non genuine REPCO globe. Replaced it with a genuine globe and car starts perfectly at least 10 times and I haven't seen any faults. Stopped at replacing this globe only. Very early to tell but positive that I only changed 1 thing and the car hasn't faulted since.

[bbyer]

I presume the Repco bulb appeared to be working fine. As such, if you can, with an ohm meter, perhaps take a reading of the resistance of each of two filaments and then compare the readings to those of your other new genuine bulbs.

I have a theory that while the non genuine bulbs appear to illuminate OK, that the filaments have a significantly different resistance, (perhaps only when illuminated however), than genuine; the difference is enough to cause problems.

I see it as a quality control thing; the off spec probably come from the same plant as the genuine but the off spec are not crushed, they are sold as "or equal".

[Graeme]

Do the faults return if the globe is refitted? If not then its likely poor contact from weathering/corrosion has been the cause. Don't discount the possibility that wiring was moved which may turn out to be a poor earth to the body.

[Ashes]

Graeme,
absolutely agree about retesting again and I have kept and labeled the suspect globe. I didn't want to repeat the test last night as I had started the car a dozen times in a short period. I'll see how it performs for the next few days and on the weekend will test the old globe again.

Bbyer,
I'll see if I can get some OHM measurements. Not sure if my meter does this though

[Ashes]

Just had a message from the home front, car didn't start first time but did on the 2nd attempt.
Wonder if the car sitting overnight and possibly the battery draining slightly is having an impact? Despite having the battery checked a couple of times it is something that definately degrades over time and in my mind something which could cause a increasingly frequent problem. I also have a Traxide dual battery setup so possibly the 2nd battery is helping to keep the car going or affecting it.

[bbyer]

When I was having my starting problems, every night I put my starting battery on the CTEK; also I have the Traxide system as well.

There is an argument for disconnecting the hot wire between the two batteries as the Traxide kind of kicks in and helps a weak starting battery and hence can mask a main battery problem. In your case, I do not think there is a main battery problem but there still could be a starter motor problem.

Ultimately my starting problem ended up being the solved by replacing the starter motor. I think the actual fault was with the starter solenoid rather than the motor portion. The distinction would be academic but I mention it as that was why the problem never showed what I call normal starter motor trouble characteristics - spinning of the Bendix etc or the click - well I did get the click now that I think of it but never when the battery was full up.

I also did not get any HDC messages - well I did on occasion until I replaced the brake light switch. I always use OEM bulbs - always did so in my Chev's and the like previously as aftermarket bulbs are to me, always in question.

I think you are getting close to resolving the problem.

[Ashes]

Yep, good point. I may have solved the HDC problems (time will tell) but still have an outstanding starting problem which could be completely unrelated. Having two different problems at once always confuses issues if you are conviced they are related.

[Ashes]

Took some readings with the OHM meter.

On the 200 setting on the meeter
Repco globe reads 2.8 and 0.9 on the bottom contacts
Genuine LR globe reads 4.2 and 0.9 on the bottom contacts.

Looks like the LR globe has higher resistance on one of the contacts. Not sure if resistance is altered though with age and use as the Repco globe must have been in a while and the LR globe is new.

[Graeme]

2.8 ohms equates to 51W at 12V and 4.2 ohms equates to 35W at 12V, both a long way from a nominal 18W with 51W equating to double the expected current draw if the meter is correct. What globe is in the left side?

Edit: The readings are crazy as 0.9 ohms equates to 160W!

[bbyer]

Took some readings with the OHM meter.

On the 200 setting on the meter
Repco globe reads 2.8 and 0.9 on the bottom contacts.
Genuine LR globe reads 4.2 and 0.9 on the bottom contacts.

Looks like the LR globe has higher resistance on one of the contacts. Not sure if resistance is altered though with age and use as the Repco globe must have been in a while and the LR globe is new. I just measured two new unused genuine tail / brake light bulbs from my stock, both LR part number 264590, on two different ohm meters at the 200 setting.

I got similar numbers on both meters for both bulbs and close to Ashes numbers, that is 3.4 / 1.3 and 3.4 / 1.5 The 1.3 and 1.5 numbers were from the two different ohm meters so they were reading differently; each ohm meter showed similar numbers for each bulb.

I think that tungsten filament resistance is higher when hot and that is why the ohm numbers look low. Nominal filament current readings for a P21/5 bulb are supposed to be about 1.86 and 0.44 amps. That suggests hot resistances of about 6.5 and 27 ohms. The low resistance at cold start up is why I think filaments seem to burn out, (pop), right at start up. Bulbs do not seem to quit when operating, just when they first start.

The significant point however is that Ashes shows the Repco bulb as having a much different and lower number on one of the filaments; that suggests a quality control issue verses the LR bulbs that even across oceans seem to show similar numbers. I think this matters to the 3's monitoring systems.

[Graeme]

Edit: I think that tungsten filament resistance is higher when hot and that is why the ohm numbers look low.
I'd forgotten to consider that, thinking of normal resisters instead.

A 70% increase in initial current is quite significant but if its only 1 globe then its only 35%, although still quite detectable by the electronics.

[Ashes]

I forgot to mention that across the probes I had a 0.4 resistance so I guess this should be subtracted from my first numbers which would get them closer to Bbyers reading. Definately quite a difference between the two globes though.

[Graeme]

I wouldn't rely on any of the results if the meter is reading 0.4 ohms across the probes.

Edit: If its an analogue meter then it likely has a needle zero position adjustment screw.

[Ashes]

Took the car into LR on Monday and they adjusted the gear position indicator which they said was well out of normal range. No problems starting the car for the last 5 days.
I've had the HDC faults come up twice since then. Probably done around 30-40 starts without any faults though. I can live with the occasional fault but will continue replacing bulbs if the HDC faults get more regular.

[Graeme]

Do you know what led them to check the gear position indicator?

[Ashes]

Probably some of the info that I provided that the car would usually start if I shifted from park to neutral. I was convinced it was a starter solenoid problem but hopefully this fixes the starting problem for good. If it fixes the start problem I can then start again on the HDC faults again.

[Ashes]

Car got to the point where it would not start. Just a clunk. It did this while being serviced and it was confirmed that it was a starter problem.
Replaced the starter motor on the 21st Nov and no starting problems or warnings since then. I'll report back in a month or so if no further problems or earlier if they return. I have the old starter so might have a look at the solenoid out of curiosity and if stuffed, get the solenoid replacement kit so I have a working spare.

[Timj]

I thought I would come back to this thread and give a final report on what has been happening with mine. From earlier posts you would know that mine had all the dreaded errors and it wasn't caused by brake bulbs or the brake switch though these were replaced. The whole story is as follows, could be a bit long -

The fuel gauge started to play up back before Easter this year, I was not sure when I had last filled up or if my wife or daughter had filled it but it didn't seem to be dropping as fast as it should. Then one time when I got in it was showing full and again I thought that someone else must have filled it. On my way home the next night I pulled onto the freeway only to have it error and drop to the bump stops at the top of the onramp. A number of attempts to restart it did not get far. Towed off the freeway, checked by RACQ, more attempts to restart and then the next day towed to the mechanic.

I am sure he also tried to start it many times and eventually he worked out that there was no petrol in the main tank despite the gauge showing full. He pumped petrol across from the auxilliary tank and it started again. So out with the tank and replace the rear sender as it was showing errors, front seemed ok and is impossible to change anyway. Car still came up with errors, going into limp mode on me regularly and in fact being quite dangerous to drive. Errors now were showing low fuel pressure in the low pressure side and this was confirmed with physical tests so the pump in the tank was replaced and the fuel filter was replaced.

Still no go, went fine for the mechanic but as soon as I tried to drive it errors and limp mode. Once the mechanic had driven it around for two days including a trip to the other side of Brisbane with no errors, I hopped in and it faulted on the way out of his driveway. After reading about brake bulbs on here these and the switch were all replaced with no result. The faults were now showing low fuel pressure in the high pressure rail and tests indicated that the pressure regulator was faulty. Of course this can't be replaced by itself, it is part of the high pressure pump. I ended up sourcing one off ebay in Latvia for about $900 delivered and fortunately it was the right part and the service was great.

However after this was replaced there were still errors coming up in the fuel system and the same limp mode. The mechanic tried one last thing which was to replace the fuel rail but that still did not clear it. The last ditch attempt was to reflash the ECU. After this was done the car has been running perfectly for a couple of months now.

The one thing that still hasn't been working properly is the fuel gauge, I really don't want to pay for a new tank just to get the gauge working, I have the aux tank and have been resetting the odometer when refilling and then refilling from the aux after about 600k and then filling up again before too long. This worked fine until a recent trip where I must have had an airlock or something and though I thought I had filled the main tank I obviously hadn't and at about 300k we went down the the bumpstops again and all the errors came up. This time I thought about it after trying to restart once and pumped fuel in from the aux. After a couple of tries and some priming away we went with no more issues. And again it has been fine since.

So my conclusions are that due to the many initial attempts to restart with no fuel in the tank that the pumps were probably damaged by running them completely dry. I can only assume that the constant errors thrown in with inconsistent readings from the fuel gauge caused a glitch in the ECU that required the reflash to fix it. This stupid set of errors comes up for so many situations that it is pretty much impossible to know what is the root cause without access to a fault reader and knowledge of the fault codes. It is also possible that I didn't need to replace anything, that a reflash straight away may have solved the problems but I don't believe so since physical tests were backing up issues with fuel pressure.

And a last thing, has anyone actually replaced the sender at the front of the tank? Apparently it is possible if you have extremely long, extremely thin arms but I have not found anyone who has actually done it.

So at the moment it is running well, apart from the gauge, but I spent probably 5 months unable to trust it to take us on a trip which was very frustrating. But for some reason I still love the car.

With any luck that story may help someone else with issues :).

Cheers,


TimJ.

[Ashes]

Two very different problems. Mine always occurred on startup. Seems yours are while in motion. Very similar warnings though. Good luck, hope yours is fixed now.

[Grappler]

The other main culprit for this message is a dying battery. It'll still start the car but the voltage is isn't great, so it chucks up these faults. New battery and all is well again.

Thanks Mike,

I was getting the same fault message "HDC not available" after starting overnight. The message would not show after susequent starts during the day.

Lashed out on a new battery and no faults after a cold start.

[Ashes]

Over 4 weeks now with no faults being reported.