Puma Air Box Seal - Advice Pls

[chook73]

When working on the car today I noticed that I can see the rubber outer edge of the air filter through the outside of the box (its the orange slit in the photo below), i.e. the box doesn't appear to seal completely.

This is the very drivers side of the box when viewed through the wing hatch.

This seems very wrong to me.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/05/888.jpg

[russ55]

Looks like the lids in the wrong rotation or it's the wrong lid.

[TimNZ]

Hi Chook,

My one looks exactly the same. I've pulled the air filter cover off and the residual marking on the orange rubber seal shows that the cover is fitting and sealing correctly. I'd just check the filter cover is down correctly all around the filter box. (By the way, the cover is a pig to refit!).

Cheers,

Tim

[chook73]

Definitely the right way around, as Tim says its a pig to fit and will only go on one way.

Tim thanks for that, I did remove it and check that a bit hadn't broken off, it just seems really odd that it would not seal externally.

Cheers
Iain

[LowRanger]

:eek:Don't think I would be driving through any water with that!!

[TimNZ]

:eek:Don't think I would be driving through any water with that!!

The air box is completly sealed with the lid in that position, (apart from the drains in the bottom of the box!). The orange part showing is the rubber seal part of the filter and is in complete contact with the air box and the lid.

[LowRanger]

The only problem is that the rubber used in air filters has a habit of degrading quickly when exposed to a harsh environment,and the breaking apart


Sent from my Truck using Electrickery

[cal415]

I think the stock airbox in the puma is rubbish... i have planned to scrap mine eventually in favour of a custom airbox/filter arrangement. I removed mine when installing the snorkell now i cant get it to mount back in its original bottom mounts, they are about an inch or so over from where they should be! good ol defender manafacturing tolerances i guess.

I also noticed it doesnt seem to seal very well, the top and bottom sections dont match up very well and now mine doesnt sit back in its original mounts it fowls on the gaurd.

[spudfan]

There should be a metal clip on each side that pulls the lid tight and seals it up. These seem to be missing from yours. Your dealer should have some instock as they can warp out of shape during refitting.You will know if the air filter lid is on correctly and sealed, as if not the engine sounds completely different. If you need pictures of the clips I'll take a photo and put it up unless someone beats me to it.

[chook73]

There should be a metal clip on each side that pulls the lid tight and seals it up. These seem to be missing from yours. Your dealer should have some instock as they can warp out of shape during refitting.You will know if the air filter lid is on correctly and sealed, as if not the engine sounds completely different. If you need pictures of the clips I'll take a photo and put it up unless someone beats me to it.

If you could take a picture of that side for me I would appreciate it thanks

[spudfan]

Nearest to front of engine bay
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/05/736.jpg
Side nearest cab
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/05/737.jpg
If you are missing clips, remove the top of the airfilter box, refit it correctly then put a loop of Duck Tape around the whole box and that will do as good as the clips.
The original idea was to use screws to close the box but as the screw hole in the top of the box does not align with the hole below it, that idea had to be scrapped.The top hole is clearly visible by the clip in the top photo.

[chook73]

Nearest to front of engine bay
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/05/736.jpg
Side nearest cab
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/05/737.jpg
If you are missing clips, remove the top of the airfilter box, refit it correctly then put a loop of Duck Tape around the whole box and that will do as good as the clips.
The original idea was to use screws to close the box but as the screw hole in the top of the box does not align with the hole below it, that idea had to be scrapped.The top hole is clearly visible by the clip in the top photo.

Thanks Spud however the bit I am talking about can only be viewed by removing the wing cover plate and looking in, imaging that your looking into the front quarter panel directly above the wheel from the drivers side, I have the clips as per your photos.

[SloMoBro]

Chook,that doesnt look real good even though the lid is seated correctly. I'll be checking mine soon as its not something easily noticed unless looking through the guard vent as you have or removing the airbox completely. You would expect that the filter would not be visible at all. I've read of people adding strips of self adhesive foam to the inside of the lid to help with sealing.

[Drover]

Just checked mine, it is exactly the same.

Small section of the orange seal showing in that corner.

No clips on that section either.

[chook73]

Just checked mine, it is exactly the same.

Small section of the orange seal showing in that corner.

No clips on that section either.

Thanks Grant, I might give allisport a call tonight and see if they do a replacement box as I am not too comfortable with it.

[Drover]

Sounds good, Andrew does very nice work, I have one of his intercoolers.

A group buy of a least two might be in order...

Or someone with skill, like Wayne (Nugge t) might like to build some.

[chook73]

I have just got of the phone with Andrew and until now they had never seen a need to make a replacement air box for the puma.

Having seen my photo he has added to his development list but if there is a talented individual on here willing to build some I would definitely be up for one especially if it came before I leave at the end of june.

[chook73]

Ok so have been around to a mates place tonight I mentioned the air box seal and he pointed out that the snorkel seal is only to the panel work and not all the way to the air box.

Having had a small knock on that panel (a guy who tried to change lanes into my lane thought his mirror looked good imprinted into my paint work) he pointed out that my snorkel is no longer sealed.

So bugger me I am leaving in 5 weeks for a trip which will take me across the gulf country amongst other places and I am getting the feeling that a river crossing will be like pointing a hose into the air intake.

I am thinking I might find someone that can make up an alloy air box and feeder pipe from the snorkel. Just wondering if anyone else has done this or has a contact for a good (and preferably cost effective) alloy fabricator?

[Drover]

Iain,

I previously removed all of the factory ducting from the air box to the guard.

I replaced it with a section of 90mm marine exhaust tube (wire reinforced rubber pipe).

With a piece of rubber mat and lots of sika-flex I glued the marine exhaust tube to rubber piece and then to the snorkel. Perfect seal :D

The air box end I cut off the original fitting to air box and sika-flexed it the other end of the marine tube, some more Silastic and into the air box.

The snorkel still mounts to the guard the same way. Easy job takes a couple of days for the sika-flex to dry.

This was 100% water proof until you found the defect in the air box lid :(

[cal415]

N ugget on here is working on doing some kind of kit to replace the factory ducting i beleive? that could be worth a look, but it doesnt include the factory airbox. But in my experience with some deep water crossings recently i made very sure the pipework was well sealed and the air box seemed to seal up well enough when i blocked the top of the snorkel with my hand nearly eating my hand.

[SloMoBro]

Cal415, is the filter visible on your air box as in the photo at the start of this thread?

[MTB]

Some time ago I sealed all the piping on my Puma, every joint and every air vent (the original install was completely useless). I also glued some double lip seals on the lid of the airbox.
If I cover up the snorkel the engine certainly starts to labour, but does not stall as I would have expected, so it must still be getting air from somewhere :confused:

Frank

[chook73]

N ugget on here is working on doing some kind of kit to replace the factory ducting i beleive? that could be worth a look, but it doesnt include the factory airbox. But in my experience with some deep water crossings recently i made very sure the pipework was well sealed and the air box seemed to seal up well enough when i blocked the top of the snorkel with my hand nearly eating my hand.

That's great news, I will see if I have time over the weekend to pull it apart. Having a look on the net last night there seems to be two versions of the safari snorkel, the older type which seals to the panel and the current model which attaches directly to the existing air intake.

[Drover]

Wayne (Nugge t) is working on a replacement ducting set up from the guard to the air box and his work is first rate. It includes an alloy replacement for the small air box on the inside of the guard. It will still rely on the snorkel sealing against the guard thou.

I have also used a foam based sealing tape on the inside of the air box lid, I put a plastic bag over the snorkel the engine labours but still runs. A friend tried it on his pootrol and the engine stalled. - So yes it is still getting somewhere - Air box lid is my guess.

[Drover]

the older type which seals to the panel and the current model which attaches directly to the existing air intake.
I think the older type you refer to is actually the newer type and has already been discontinued.

6 months ago a followed up on it and spoke directly to Safari.

You can tell the difference as the new discontinued version has the bolts/ holes exposed to the outside of the guard.

[ATH]

I've just had this exact same thing with the Puma I've just bought. I saw the filter seal showing so I removed the filter and it was wet from a recent downpour so I bought a new one and complained to the stealer who'd done the last service.
They immediately gave me another new filter and checked for dust in the inlet (there was none as I'd checked before them) and gave the vehicle a general check over.
I found the way to fit these so there's no seal showing anywhere is to take the pipe off the filter leaving just the lid free. Then slide the filter box top and filter in at an angle towards you and under the fender, the end of the filter will hit the far edge of the box but you then push the filter paper in and it just slips down completely into the box.
The 2 clips are the latched on and the thing is completely sealed with no seal showing.

[chook73]

Wayne (Nugge t) is working on a replacement ducting set up from the guard to the air box and his work is first rate. It includes an alloy replacement for the small air box on the inside of the guard. It will still rely on the snorkel sealing against the guard thou.

I have also used a foam based sealing tape on the inside of the air box lid, I put a plastic bag over the snorkel the engine labours but still runs. A friend tried it on his pootrol and the engine stalled. - So yes it is still getting somewhere - Air box lid is my guess.

May I ask what purpose the small air box serves?

So grant are you saying that the newer type is the one that seals to the panel and that one has been discontinued?

[Drover]

Other way around.
The type that seals to the guard is the current and only type available.

They had a new style, but was found to be defective ???, and was discontinued.

The discontinued version looks better and that is why I was chasing it.

The purpose of the small air box on the inside of the guard is to catch and disperse any water that finds its way down the snorkel - I think.

Mine has been removed for 2 years without an issue or water in the air box.

I read your post on Nugge t build thread. Being able to attach the pipe directly to the snorkel is the best solution bar none.

[chook73]

I will let you know how I go when I talk to Daniel tomorrow, fingers crossed.

With the Sy-Klone, a properly welded snorkel and Nuggets (fingers crossed) air box it should actually be a waterproof system.

Here is a link to the silicone hoses ARE Cooling (Aluminium Radiators & Engineering P/L) (http://www.are.com.au/products/Silicon%20Hoses.htm#__SFS_-_premium)

They may be an option as well although it would be more joins with the bend fittings.

[TimNZ]

Don't forget to put hose clamps on the crankcase/rocker cover breather hose where it connects to the air inlet before the turbo.

Cheers,

[nugge t]

ARE are around the corner from me so I am going to drop in today and have a look.

Have done the re-design work after putting the system back together...again!!....and am still quitely confident of getting a larger hose through.


I will let you know how I go when I talk to Daniel tomorrow, fingers crossed.

With the Sy-Klone, a properly welded snorkel and Nuggets (fingers crossed) air box it should actually be a waterproof system.

Here is a link to the silicone hoses ARE Cooling (Aluminium Radiators & Engineering P/L) (http://www.are.com.au/products/Silicon%20Hoses.htm#__SFS_-_premium)

They may be an option as well although it would be more joins with the bend fittings.

[Bundalene]

The biggest problem with the Puma air filter is that the position was an afterthought. Who in their right mind would position it in an un-servicable position. These filters were notorious for leaking air past the filter in earlier Defenders and D2s, when you could actually see what you were doing when replacing it.

As mentioned previously, the original filter ducting is a piece of rubbish. being quite restrictive and not possible to seal as sikaflex products don't adhere to the type of plastic well.

I spent a lot of effort and lowered the airbox by about 40mm to allow slightly better access, still not ideal. The area is so cluttered that it is difficult to re-position or install a different filter. Also installed a larger flexible line to the air intake position

There is a bit of a write-up on how we lowered the filter - a huge undertaking, including replacing the plastic composite inner guard with a metal inner guard etc etc.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/115591-bundalenes-puma-project-19.html

More on earlier and later pages as well




Erich

[nugge t]

Had a chat with ARE and looked at some straight silicon tube but it is not at all flexible which woud mean using lots of elbows, joiners and clamps..not for me.:D

[chook73]

Had a chat with ARE and looked at some straight silicon tube but it is not at all flexible which woud mean using lots of elbows, joiners and clamps..not for me.:D

That was my concern, I would rather minimise the joins.

[Equalizer]

I brought a mantec snorkel a while back not realizing how it sealed onto the guard. Not being happy with it I went to my local plastic welding guy and he welded a plate and section of pipe at just the right angle to clear the abs on my td5 defender. It was a little mucking round but the end result was a very solid and water tight system that has just survived four weeks in cape york last year. I was a bit unsure of the plastic welding but with a boiler making back ground once i saw the process i was very confident it would work. Having said this I would still prefer the genuine safari snorkel over the mantec i believe the 8v option has the ducted plumbing not sure if i clears the ABS though. First time poster.

[Drover]

Did a similar thing with my Safari. Made an alloy plate, with a section of alloy pipe welded on. Then with SikaFle and rivets attached it to the snorkel....