Update on Koni FSD Shocks

[TerryO]

Many of you would have read previously on here that I have had some issues with the Koni FSD shocks I had fitted late last year. Initially they were excellent and transformed the D3 into a exceptional handling vehicle for a 4x4.

Anyway after a telephone call to the importer of Koni they agreed to replace them under warranty. It took me a couple of months to take the D3 in so that is why the long delay in reporting back on the outcome.

What went wrong? One of the shocks had blown its seals and was leaking oil into the airbag so it wasn't obvious that the shock had blown looking at it while fitted to the vehicle. It felt like the other shocks had lost most of their dampening as well.

So how is the D3 handling with the new Koni shocks fitted? Well so far I can say its got its handling mojo back. ...:D

I will report back in as I click up the kilometers on how they are going. Big thanks to Koni for replacing the shocks without any hassle.

cheers,
Terry

[Graeme]

Did they tell you which corner had the blown seal and if so, can you now reconcile the vehicle's behaviour with a dud shock in that position?

[TerryO]

Hi Graeme,

the shock that leaked oil was the rear drivers side. The rest of the shocks felt like they had also lost much of their dampening compared to what they were like when they were good though. But the ride wasn't dangerous, that might have been a different case though if it had been a front shock. The fact that I was comfortable to wait nearly two months to take it in to have them replaced shows that I didn't feel to uncomfortable with them.

I was more concerned about an airleak that couldn't be found that had the vehicle dropping down by over half overnight. While they had all the shocks off they tested the bags with the shocks fitted and they believe they weren't leaking, so time will tell if that issue has been resolved as well or not. ...If I could be that lucky!

I also had the compressor replaced at the same time as that was nearly stuffed and very slow.

To be frank even with the Koni shocks not in good shape in general it didn't handle any worse then when the original old shocks were still fitted.

The workshop I bought them from in Canberra who did the work on replacing them said that Koni here had just received a new batch of shocks that had different internals. So it will be interesting to see what difference if any.

cheers,
Terry

[Redback]

No excuses now, even photo evidence won't save you this time:p

Baz.

[Graeme]

KONI shocks for D3/D4 are currently unavailable in Australia and there is no ETA for them. Development work is being undertaken by the Australian importers in conjunction with Koni for more suitable valving for Australian conditions.

[TerryO]

The Koni importer who I spoke with last week has decided not to import them until the factory can say for sure 100% why some have failed on D3/4's when they have no issue with other vehicles.

Seriously I can not fault the importers reaction to the various issues I have faced with these shocks as they have aged.

cheers,
Terry

[Epic pooh]

Really appreciate your updates wrt your adventures with the Koni's Terry.

Having had Koni's in various vehicles over the years they were my preference for the D3 (@125km, my shocks feel to be well past their use by date!), reading the saga makes me think that I may be best served with a fresh set of OEM Delphis ... any other comments or suggestions would be much appreciated !

Cheers,
Mick

[TerryO]

You can now buy brand new Delphi branded suspension including airbags, unbolt old, bolt in new for much less than what you could buy just airbags for even just a year ago.

Justin in Tassie I know fitted all four corners with these Delphi branded shocks a number of months ago, it would be good to know from him how they are going now.

cheers,
Terry

[Epic pooh]

Ta, that was on my mind as the least hassle option and as a route to avoiding airbag issues for (another 7 hopefully) years to come. From a labor & convenience point of view it makes a lot of sense and, as much as I would like the additional agility bestowed by a set of Konis (even the Mrs is a bit sad that they seem to be a no-go). I guess the OEM's have lasted and done pretty well all things considered (age/mileage/use).

I was going to scope out a few suppliers, Karcraft Sydney seem well regarded - any others you'd recommend ?

Cheers,
Mick

[Graeme]

@125km, my shocks feel to be well past their use by date!
My vehicle is now becoming dangerous at speed and very uncomfortable at any speed after only 60k kms so I'd like to fit shocks that last longer with my usage than standard D3 shocks.

[smwilk]

Hi all my Koni shocks are still like new after 7000km. I must say though that never felt like Terryo describes, just a bit firmer than OEM but without the pogo effect at speed. Note I imported mine as they wre half cost of local supplier.

[justinc]

HI ALL,

the delphi units are still going well, had a recent mainland trip (canning stock route) with the only drama being the eas compressor finally died,:( after it got back here:) .

jc

[Steve223]

Hi Terry,

I'm looking at new shocks you still recommending the Koni's?

I also read that the D4 shocks are an alternative as they are supposedly better and a bit firmer then D3, has someone installed them and has feedback?

I will be carrying quite a bit of weight once I have the rear wheel carrier, the extended fuel tank and my drawer system in place and like to get the best possible shocks.


Cheers

Steve

[Graeme]

Today I refitted my original rear D4 shocks, having replaced them at 34K with D3 shocks because they were too firm but needed something to replace the now worn-out D3 shocks. I'll re-acquaint myself with the ride tomorrow before refitting the fronts later in the day. The D4s are also Delphi so may be available from sources other than LR.

Not directly related to shocks but I noticed that after almost 100K kms the rear airsprings have developed cracks right around their inner attachment point. I'll be fitting new air-springs with the next set of shocks.

[TerryO]

Hi Terry,

I'm looking at new shocks you still recommending the Koni's?


Cheers

Steve


Hi Steve,

Re the Koni's, they are no longer sold in Australia for D3/4's and won't be until Koni can sort out why they have had some issues here when they are fitted to D3/4's and not else where around the world.
Unfortunately I have had two sets fail and next week will have a set of the Delphi aftermarket shocks and airbags fitted, I am of the opinion that towing our off road van on rough roads and tracks more than likely dramatically shortened the shocks lifespan.

I must say the Koni importer here has gone out of his way to sort out any issues we have had which I truly appreciate.

And I will say if and when Koni get it sorted for D3/4's I would be more than happy to buy their shocks again as when they were new they were excellent.

cheers,
Terry

[Steve223]

Thanks Terry, will give that a miss then two failed shocks sounds more then a coincident, hope they will sort it out

[Graeme]

Terry, if its not too late can you try to get the D4 versions of the Delphi shocks for the firmer ride you prefer? I can provide the Delphi part numbers if it helps.

[TerryO]

Hi Graeme,

As the shocks and airbags are being replaced by Koni I am happy to accept the Delphi aftermarket D3 versions.

cheers,
Terry

[Graeme]

I wonder if the Delphi a/m ones are the same specs as the D3 or the D4 for that matter - they could be somewhere between the 2. Comparing Delphi part numbers could establish whether they are indeed D3 specs, although there were several revisions even for the various D3 models.

[TerryO]

Time will tell Graeme. ...:) or ...:(

cheers,
Terry

[Epic pooh]

Thanks guys that's all very helpful :)

It seems that the aftermarket Delphis come in two flavours - D3 & D4. No idea what the difference is, but from what you guys have been saying I assume that the D4's are firmer.

Seems that 4x complete assemblies are in the order of $1600 or thereabouts ... which isn't obnoxiously expensive ... still shopping around !

Cheers,
Mick

[Graeme]

Yesterday Rovacraft quoted me $600 each for D3 unbranded assumed Delphi shock c/w air-spring and only the fronts at that. As I seemed to have wrecked my D4 shocks by storing them on their sides for 2 years without moving them, I'll probably be after a complete set of D3 equivalents before too long.

[Mike_S]

Unless you're wedded to buying locally, I'd look to the UK for a set of Delphi's. Mine were $600 a pair direct from a LR main dealer.

[Graeme]

Was that price inclusive of freight to Oz?

[Mike_S]

No. As that cost seems to change with the wind it depends on when you get them. This may sound like a strange approach, but buying them in pairs from 2 different dealers worked out cheaper for me, yet no more hassle. I had a pair from Sturgess LR and a pair from DLS, albeit the pair from DLS came from his local main dealer & still had their delivery address on them. I was very clear that I only wanted oem complete struts.

[Graeme]

The Koni importers Top Performance today advised that a small shipment of D3/4 shocks valved for Oz conditions rather than autobans is in transit from Koni. They will be trialled for a while before deciding whether to release them for general sale.

My extra soft 40K old Dephis will have to last a bit longer.

[TerryO]

Yes correct Graeme, I spoke to the importer a week or so back after the previous thread on shocks and its likely I will be trialling one of the new revalved sets soon.

[Graeme]

After a drive to Goulbourn and back today I'll be trying to get hold of a set ASAP.

[PeterOZ]

Any updates on this yet? My D3 has 192k on it and still on the original set of shocks and bags. I'm thinking the shocks are due to be replaced though MR said they seem ok at it's last service about 6 months ago.

Handling does not seem that flash though the tyres are about due to be replaced too.

How do you know if the bags are stuffed too?

cheers
Peter

[Graeme]

I haven't checked lately if the new versons have arrived at Top Performance yet.

The rear airsprings on my D4 had serious internal cracks at folds at around 90K so were replaced with complete assemblies at the shock change. I can't see how my vehicle's usage contributes to accelerated deterioration unless due to slightly higher summer temperatures than coastal areas. The suspension gets a fair amount of daily exercise but would expect that to reduce the time the folds are at the same spot and therefore less likely to crack.

[TerryO]

I'll check with the importer tomorrow Graeme, thanks for reminding me.

[Graeme]

TP wont sell any revalved versions until they've been tested on vehicles previously fitted with the original version.

[Graeme]

Not Konis for me this change - can't wait any longer. Trying genuine D4s again but with new part numbers since MY12. $1155 (Paypal conversion rates) ex UK incl air freight for shocks only. Shocks excl freight should be just below import tax exemption threshold but still a good price if not.

[mowog]

I have been thinking about new shocks so I dug up this old thread.

I see the Koni's are now listed on the site at Top Performance

http://findershop.koni.com/files/pdf/2100-4069-manual.pdf

Other than Koni's what have people been fitting?

[Redback]

I have been thinking about new shocks so I dug up this old thread.

I see the Koni's are now listed on the site at Top Performance

http://findershop.koni.com/files/pdf/2100-4069-manual.pdf

Other than Koni's what have people been fitting?

As far as I know, they have always been listed on the Koni site, I looked at this a while back, the issue is they don't last in the front, apparently the rears are OK, just not the fronts.

Baz.

[NomadicD3]

Hi All,
Just a quick note. I was contacted today regarding the Koni FSD shocks, by top Performance in Melbourne. It seems they have had a set of retuned ones on a D3 in Melbourne for a few months now and I guess they must be happy with the results thus far as they have enquired as to my interest in having a set fitted to my vehicle, as the set I had on the D3 failed inside warranty almost a year ago. I assume there will be a few people getting the call over the next week or so.
regards
Brian

[Redback]

Well nearly $1900 for a set of struts only sold as a set of 4, verses $1300 for a pair of the Front Strut Assembly (Inc. air spring):confused:

As the Koni's are sold as a set of 4, are they $1877 a pair or $1877 for 4??

http://www.climaxsuspension.com.au/#

[Tombie]

The Konis failed last time - leaked and failed - revalving wont sort a leak - thats more a design fault.


And then theres replacing only the strut and not the bellows around it...

By the time I've killed shocks enough to warrant replacement, the spring (coil) was always nearing end of life. Why would anyone think this to be any different?

I would much rather replace the lot and have another run with reliability than risk the aged rubber airbag failing...

[TerryO]

The Konis failed last time - leaked and failed - revalving wont sort a leak - thats more a design fault.


And then theres replacing only the strut and not the bellows around it...

By the time I've killed shocks enough to warrant replacement, the spring (coil) was always nearing end of life. Why would anyone think this to be any different?

I would much rather replace the lot and have another run with reliability than risk the aged rubber airbag failing...


You might be right or you could be wrong and only time will tell Tombie.

As for the actual airbags they are inside a rubber cover and don't see the elements. When mine were originally taken off at about 130k they still looked like new, had no cracking and felt soft and pliable like rubber should. Changing them I agree isn't a bad idea but who is to say with any known accuracy how long the original ones will last if their appearance is like new when the shocks are changed?

[Redback]

The Konis failed last time - leaked and failed - revalving wont sort a leak - thats more a design fault.


And then theres replacing only the strut and not the bellows around it...

By the time I've killed shocks enough to warrant replacement, the spring (coil) was always nearing end of life. Why would anyone think this to be any different?

I would much rather replace the lot and have another run with reliability than risk the aged rubber airbag failing...

So if the strut fails again, does the warranty include labour for replace and refit??

[Graeme]

As for the actual airbags they are inside a rubber cover and don't see the elements. When mine were originally taken off at about 130k they still looked like new, had no cracking and felt soft and pliable like rubber should.Both my D4's original rears after 3 yrs and 95K were quite cracked on the inside of the top fold and replaced 5K later with a full set of shocks c/w air-springs. I thought the air-springs would not last the 60K the existing shocks lasted.

[LGM]

As I sit here reading through the posts on this subject I am left wondering just what life (subjective I know) I should expect from the shocker / airbag combo on my D4?
My vehicle, a 2011 D4 HSE has 145,000 on the clock and does mainly highway km's and from my perspective rides and handles well. I drove home from Perth yesterday, a 375km trip and was thinking to myself just what an amazing vehicle I have and how well it runs and drives!
Mind you deterioration over time (you get used to the way things are don't you) is hard to pick up unless there is some failure so I am just wondering what the signs of crook shocks might be?

[Redback]

As I sit here reading through the posts on this subject I am left wondering just what life (subjective I know) I should expect from the shocker / airbag combo on my D4?
My vehicle, a 2011 D4 HSE has 145,000 on the clock and does mainly highway km's and from my perspective rides and handles well. I drove home from Perth yesterday, a 375km trip and was thinking to myself just what an amazing vehicle I have and how well it runs and drives!
Mind you deterioration over time (you get used to the way things are don't you) is hard to pick up unless there is some failure so I am just wondering what the signs of crook shocks might be?

Wollowing, dives in corners, fronts normally go first, feels loose, more body roll than usual.

Your DSC will activate more than usual, which I think is starting to happen to our 2011 D4 with 130,000Ks, we do a lot of off road and towing though.

[Melbourne Park]

Both my D4's original rears after 3 yrs and 95K were quite cracked on the inside of the top fold and replaced 5K later with a full set of shocks c/w air-springs. I thought the air-springs would not last the 60K the existing shocks lasted.

As far as springs go ... they should not fatigue. But bad shockers may cause springs to crack which is I guess a failure.

IMO with OEM springs and shockers for 4WDs, I know that Toyota put in poor springs and shockers, which are designed to give a good ride in the 15 minute round the block test drive.

As far as worn shockers, one test is to push down on the vehicle and watch how it recovers. That works on a Prado but not sure how it works on a Disco ... I must try because mine has now only 24K on it (in less than a year), so I guess the shockers should be very good.

[Redback]

As far as springs go ... they should not fatigue. But bad shockers may cause springs to crack which is I guess a failure.

IMO with OEM springs and shockers for 4WDs, I know that Toyota put in poor springs and shockers, which are designed to give a good ride in the 15 minute round the block test drive.

As far as worn shockers, one test is to push down on the vehicle and watch how it recovers. That works on a Prado but not sure how it works on a Disco ... I must try because mine has now only 24K on it (in less than a year), so I guess the shockers should be very good.

Doesn't quite work as well with airbags, you notice it more when driving.

[Tombie]

As far as springs go ... they should not fatigue. But bad shockers may cause springs to crack which is I guess a failure.

IMO with OEM springs and shockers for 4WDs, I know that Toyota put in poor springs and shockers, which are designed to give a good ride in the 15 minute round the block test drive.

As far as worn shockers, one test is to push down on the vehicle and watch how it recovers. That works on a Prado but not sure how it works on a Disco ... I must try because mine has now only 24K on it (in less than a year), so I guess the shockers should be very good.

How do you figure that? Settling, dropping, etc are all signs of spring fatigue... A bellows type bag will also fatigue due to the rolling motion.

Toyota coils are very compliant, I know plenty of people running them in standard form offroad without issue. Many of our Mine vehicles are stock suspension.

Not so easy on a Bag suspended vehicle... And not completely indicative of modern multi stage valved dampers...

[NomadicD3]

Hi All,
I thought I would bump this old thread up again.
As most people are aware, the original release Koni FSD's had some issues and were removed from the market. Understandably there were a number of negative posts regarding the Fsd's, I think it's only fair that Koni are given some support whilst they continue to test and develop the FSD's. With that in mind, after some protracted negotiations with Top Performance in Melbourne, I have opted to fit the retuned FSD's into the original air springs on the D3.
Having just completed a touch over 4000k's since being fitted last week, I would have to say the performance of the new version of FSD is absolutely sublime!!!!! Whilst the ride would be rated at firm to very firm, the on road handling and control of the vehicle is in another league all together, when compared to the OE air strut assembly. It should be noted that the OE air strut assembly that was replaced, was only 15 months and 30 000k's old. Offroad they are also exceptional, again the vehicle stability and directional control has never been as good as it is now. Naturally, given they are a very firm shock the ride is a little rough, as you would expect but not as harsh as I had anticipated.
All up I would consider the shockie performance as "typically Koni", far superior to anything else I have ever had on the vehicle.
However, as many are aware, the handling characteristics of the original version was never in question, it will just be a matter of endurance and longevity, especially when considering changing out just shocks can cost between $750-$1000 or a number of hours if you were able to do it yourself. NB-changing out just the shocks is not all that difficult. To that end, I am planning a few trips in the coming months and should be able to put around 20000 k's on them by mid year over some reasonably rough terrain. I shall endeavor to update this thread at various times along the way.
regards
Brian

[PeterOZ]

I'm needing new airstrut assemblies on my MY 08 D3 in the very near future, they are original still and the D3 has just clocked 208,000km of 99.99999% road use.


Now wallows like a Northsea fishing boat so time they were replaced. Needs tyres too.


Leaning towards OM at this stage. :cool:

[Narangga]

I'm needing new airstrut assemblies on my MY 08 D3 in the very near future, they are original still and the D3 has just clocked 208,000km of 99.99999% road use.


Now wallows like a Northsea fishing boat so time they were replaced. Needs tyres too.


Leaning towards OM at this stage. :cool:

Shouldn't the nautical analogy be 'listing'? :angel:

However I would say that in the next 24 months I'll be making the same consideration Peter so would like to hear what you decide.

[~Rich~]

Hi All,
I am planning a few trips in the coming months and should be able to put around 20000 k's on them by mid year over some reasonably rough terrain. I shall endeavor to update this thread at various times along the way.
regards
Brian

How are you getting on with them Brian?

[NomadicD3]

Hi All,
It's been a hectic few months hence the delay in getting back to this topic. The Koni's now have over 12000k's including the recent trip through the Gibb river and Kimberley etc. and they are still performing flawlessly. I was surprised how well they have handled the corrugations etc. There is more road feel and feedback through the steering wheel than the OE set up but by no means is it difficult to tolerate and the stability of the vehicle is as good now as it was the day the Koni's went on. The minimization of the body roll makes control of the vehicle through heavy mud and slippery conditions very comfortable and feels very safe.
All in all I am still extremely impressed with the Koni's it will just be a matter of endurance.
I have a few more months on the road and will update when I can.
regards
Brian

[NomadicD3]

HI All, just another quick update on the Koni FSD shocks. At just over 20,000k's on the Koni's now and having covered the GRR,Karajini, Gunbarrell H'way, Kakadu, Donohue and Plenty H'ways, they are still performing as consistently now as they did the day they were installed. Vehicle stabilty and control still far exceeding the OE set up that was on the vehicle previously albeit on a much firmer ride, as previouly mentioned. Whilst it has only been four months I think most people would agree, considering the roads and conditions they have been subjected to, the Koni's are truly starting to prove their reliabilty given that they have already been subjected to more difficult conditions in 20000k's than most shocks would possibly endure in their working life. If you are comfortable with a firm ride shock then you should be impressed with the Koni's both on and offroad.
Happy travels all

[~Rich~]

Glad to hear they are holding up well.
I inquired about 4 weeks ago now with TopPerformance and also recontacted them again & again.
They were speaking to the manufacturer regarding these shocks but have still not got back to me.
I was hoping to fit them before my July trip, looks like that will not be happening.

[rar110]

I enquired with the Australian Koni distributor a couple of mths ago about L322 shocks. They decided to no longer supply them as due to conditions here there were too many failures.

[vee8auto]

So..... can anyone advise if the Koni's are still available for a Disco 3?

I believe the Koni part No FSD 2100-4069 was for a set of 4 shock absorbers.

The back end of our Disco 3 is telling me the right rear shock is shot, so they all need overhauling. I have to order something pronto.

I'm in WA so if anyone can relate their recent shockie replacement experience that would be great. thanks.

[LandyAndy]

NomadicD3 (Brian) did his work in Perth before leaving for a trip.Try a PM,he hasnt got internet all the time.
Andrew

[vee8auto]

NomadicD3 (Brian) did his work in Perth before leaving for a trip.Try a PM,he hasnt got internet all the time.
Andrew
Ok, thanks, but if anyone else has used the Koni shocks in Australia in the last year or so I would be interested to know how it went.

[NomadicD3]

Hi All, just a quick note. There's little point in continuing this thread as it seems it will be unlikely that the FSD's that are on my vehicle Will ever come to market to the general public as there appears to be insufficient market value for Koni to produce them. There are currently only 4 sets of the retuned FSD's in Aus including the set on my vehicle and as far as I am aware, mine is the only set fitted to a vehicle. The others are being held for other test vehicles depending on how the set on my vehicle go.
Regards
Brian

[~Rich~]

Hi All, just a quick note. There's little point in continuing this thread as it seems it will be unlikely that the FSD's that are on my vehicle Will ever come to market to the general public as there appears to be insufficient market value for Koni to produce them. There are currently only 4 sets of the retuned FSD's in Aus including the set on my vehicle and as far as I am aware, mine is the only set fitted to a vehicle. The others are being held for other test vehicles depending on how the set on my vehicle go.
Regards
Brian

Yes this is the reply I got from Top Performance:
Hi Richard,

Due to declining global demand KONI has had to rationalise their product range and FSD kit 2100-4069 is being deleted from their catalogue. Regrettably we cannot supply you the very limited stock on hand as we have had several customers? orders waiting for these products and unfortunately many of these orders were ahead of your enquiry.

Thank you for your patience on this matter, should you have any further KONI enquiries please do not hesitate to contact our office.

Regards Dean

So that's the end of that!

[jonesy63]

Is that an "Australia only" statement? Just wondering if they're available from an overseas source?

Edit - 2 seconds on Google and yes, they're available from eBay and other vendors.

[crawal]

Plenty on Ebay UK ad the US site . are these the sames spec as to what is i Australia ?

Koni FSD Shock Absorber / Damper Suspension Kit - 2100-4069 | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Koni-FSD-Shock-Absorber-Damper-Suspension-Kit-2100-4069-/301431584103)

[~Rich~]

I don't like your warranty chances if you buy OS

[Russrobe]

Has anybody tried the Arnott Industries complete air strut replacement with Bilstein shocks? Loved my last set of Bilsteins so i'm keen on these... Would need LR OE rears though...

Three Point Classic at 1300-811 978 are the distributers.

https://www.arnottindustries.com/part_LAND_ROVER_yid4_pid217.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VQ2kbIKgEw

[Graeme]

Bilstein and LR will provide different ride and handling characteristics which if mixed may feel awkward and unbalanced when cornering.

[Geedublya]

Bilstein and LR will provide different ride and handling characteristics which if mixed may feel awkward and unbalanced when cornering.

On my D3 I had Bilstein rears and LR fronts and it was OK. Of course it could be different the other way around or other people may have found fault where I didn't.

I would be checking for experiences from American forums before purchasing though as I went through two sets of Bilstein struts before giving up on them. Mine lasted less than 10K before losing all dampening.

These Bilsteins may be a different strut design though as they are made specifically for the Arnott airbag.

[Graeme]

Firmer rears than fronts should increase stability whereas at opposite ends more likelihood of an over-steer tendency. However for a couple of days I mixed new rears with old fronts which showed-up how bad the fronts were, causing the front to dip and weave over the uneven surface of rutted gravel roads.

[crawal]

I have the problem with the back being wishy washy , 120k running 20k old AT3

Any ideas ?

[Graeme]

Worn-out shocks?

[LandyAndy]

Tyre pressure too high????
Andrew

[~Rich~]

Full long range tank plus rear wheel carrier plus water, fridge camping gear will do it too ;)

[Graeme]

Tyre pressure too high????
Too low rather than too high could cause the rear-end to wander.

[de7158]

So....do we have an update on how the new Koni FSD are performing, and will they become available to the public.

Peter

[~Rich~]

So....do we have an update on how the new Koni FSD are performing, and will they become available to the public.

Peter

Will never be sold publicly again.
Bummer eh.

[Tombie]

Will never be sold publicly again.

Bummer eh.



Not really.... [emoji6]

Last vehicle with Konis on it we removed and threw in the bin....

I've given the factory units a flogging and they're still going well at 95k. And the ride.. sublime....