D4 Weight Measured

[BobD]

I weighed my 2010 Disco 4 TD V6 SE today as I am trying to see what goodies I can put in it for a trip in September to Cape York via the Great Central Road from Perth. I will be travelling with a few Patrols and Landcruisers.

My car has an ECB bullbar, Kaymar single tyre rear bar, Brown Davis longrange fuel tank, Mitch Hitch, Traxide dual battery with D34 Optima, Safari Snorkle and GOE compressor cover plus Llams and a GME radio.

The weight came to 2740 kg with the fuel gauge on half full and the long range tank empty.

On the trip I will have a Kimberly Mycube roof top tent, Feather Light Awning, Waeco CF 50DZ fridge, three people, swag plus camping gear, food and personal luggage etc and an extra spare on the Kaymar bar. I will be running GOE 18 inch alloy wheels with Continental Cross Contact AT tyres plus two GOE steel rims with the same tyres as spares.

I wanted to also get drawers and a water tank but this will add way too much weight to the car, which will already be over its GVM I think, especially if both fuel tanks are full.

We will need to be very weight conscious. I will try to remove the steel winch mounting from the alloy bull bar, possibly remove the Mitch Hitch, maybe remove the third row seats, keep the water to one 22 l jerry can and travel with the long range tank half full at max as an emergency source of fuel.

Bob

[discotwinturbo]

I weighed my 2010 Disco 4 TD V6 SE today as I am trying to see what goodies I can put in it for a trip in September to Cape York via the Great Central Road from Perth. I will be travelling with a few Patrols and Landcruisers.

My car has an ECB bullbar, Kaymar single tyre rear bar, Brown Davis longrange fuel tank, Mitch Hitch, Traxide dual battery with D34 Optima, Safari Snorkle and GOE compressor cover plus Llams and a GME radio.

The weight came to 2740 kg with the fuel gauge on half full and the long range tank empty.

On the trip I will have a Kimberly Mycube roof top tent, Feather Light Awning, Waeco CF 50DZ fridge, three people, swag plus camping gear, food and personal luggage etc and an extra spare on the Kaymar bar. I will be running GOE 18 inch alloy wheels with Continental Cross Contact AT tyres plus two GOE steel rims with the same tyres as spares.

I wanted to also get drawers and a water tank but this will add way too much weight to the car, which will already be over its GVM I think, especially if both fuel tanks are full.

We will need to be very weight conscious. I will try to remove the steel winch mounting from the alloy bull bar, possibly remove the Mitch Hitch, maybe remove the third row seats, keep the water to one 22 l jerry can and travel with the long range tank half full at max as an emergency source of fuel.

Bob

I think it's likely that just about every tourer setup for big trips like this will always be over the GVM...and well over. Its unavoidable. You can try to reduce where you can, but you may struggle to get close to the GVM.
Have a sensational trip.
Brett....

[Tombie]

It is avoidable... It's called a trailer.

SA Transport, and SA cops now pull 4wds into weigh stations and has mobile weighing stations too. I am led to believe they are doing it in NT and WA also

If an accident occurs in Sa/Wa/Nt they now impound the vehicle and weigh it including belongings.

Several vehicles in last 6 months done for over GVM from Pt Augusta and onwards.

The additional weight is what breaks things...

Putting it in an offroad trailer will avoid axle overloading, stress on the vehicle.


Skuilnaam

[Tombie]

Amazes me how no-one gives a hoot about overloading their 4wd, rendering it unsafe.:o

Yet everyone screams blue murder at "dickhead truck drivers" running overloaded...:twisted:

Best re-think things.;)

[minibloodhound]

Amazes me how no-one gives a hoot about overloading their 4wd, rendering it unsafe.:o

Yet everyone screams blue murder at "dickhead truck drivers" running overloaded...:twisted:

Best re-think things.;)

That's because if a 4wd is overloaded its only by a couple of hundred kilos........and not being driven by someone on amphetamines (or out killing prostitutes as mr clarkson would say.)

[discotwinturbo]

Some places trailers just can't be taken or not recommended.
I use a camper trailer so my weight is not an issue, but when you do the CSR you either carry what you need, or perish. Trailers can be taken up or down the CSR but I can assure you that you will stress your vehicle much more than over loading it by a couple of hundred kilos.
Brett...

[discotwinturbo]

It is avoidable... It's called a trailer.

SA Transport, and SA cops now pull 4wds into weigh stations and has mobile weighing stations too. I am led to believe they are doing it in NT and WA also

If an accident occurs in Sa/Wa/Nt they now impound the vehicle and weigh it including belongings.

Several vehicles in last 6 months done for over GVM from Pt Augusta and onwards.

The additional weight is what breaks things...

Putting it in an offroad trailer will avoid axle overloading, stress on the vehicle.

Skuilnaam

I just spoke to a friend who is a mermaid, and they don't touch 4wds. They do on occasion pullover cars towing caravans up north. I am in WA.
Brett....

[BobD]

Looking at weights and GVMs of Patrols and Landcruisers last night I see that most of them would have significantly less capacity than my D4 if they had the same extras. There is no way that you could fit drawers and carry large amounts of water and fuel, although most of them have all the fruit plus steel bull bars etc when touring. At least with them you can get a GVM upgrade if you think of it when they are new.

My GQ Patrol with Chev V8 diesel would be really limited so I need to carefully watch what I put in it also.

I do not want to tow a trailer so I will be keeping the weight down and removing any heavy bits that I can before the trip. The Landrover's "balls" are very tempting items to remove!! My wife and I can also go on a diet and that will remove 30 kg straight away, ha ha. My 45 kg daughter is OK though.

I guess on an even more remote trip where large amounts of food, water and fuel are required a trailer would be the only option, which would create its own share of economy, safety and difficulty issues.

Bob

[Lotz-A-Landies]

It is rediculous. they've upped the brakes and beefed up everything else like sound proofing which has upped the tare. Why don't they just have an optional up on the GVM?

If you are a school run mum, you won't need the GVM up, if you want the D4 and the camping gear you up the GVM and have a an up on your drivers licence.

I can legally drive a rigid anything, if it has 4 wheels then its a GVM up to 12 tonnes, it's silly that I can only have 5 1/2 adults and picnic lunch as a load in the D4.

[discotwinturbo]

It is rediculous. they've upped the brakes and beefed up everything else like sound proofing which has upped the tare. Why don't they just have an optional up on the GVM?

If you are a school run mum, you won't need the GVM up, if you want the D4 and the camping gear you up the GVM and have a an up on your drivers licence.

I can legally drive a rigid anything, if it has 4 wheels then its a GVM up to 12 tonnes, it's silly that I can only have 5 1/2 adults and picnic lunch as a load in the D4.

Agreed. Just wondering if it's anything to do with rego or design rules....or maybe it's all too hard for them to do this for the few that use the car for its touring ability.
I am sure the G4 vehicles were all well and truly over their GVM.
And can guarantee just about all touring vehicles are well and truly over....not saying it's right, but sometimes you have the choice to go, or not to go...I know what I prefer.
Brett....

[Summiitt]

People also need to take a good look at what they are taking camping, generators,stoves, cooking equipment, etc. I like to keep it simple, done plenty of remote area extended trips and never gone over my gvm. Cargo drawers are handy but a set of draws could mean loosing 2drums of fuel or water, I know what I would rather have.maybe consider light weight camping gear?

[BobD]

People also need to take a good look at what they are taking camping, generators,stoves, cooking equipment, etc. I like to keep it simple, done plenty of remote area extended trips and never gone over my gvm. Cargo drawers are handy but a set of draws could mean loosing 2drums of fuel or water, I know what I would rather have.maybe consider light weight camping gear?

Summiitt, how do you know you haven't exceeded your GVM? Have you weighed the car?

At least the D4 can carry nearly 700 kg above its stock weight, which is more than GU Patrols and 200 Series Cruisers. However, I am left with about 500 kg payload because of my rear bar, fuel tank, bull bar etc. I already have the roof top tent that I want to use, which is one of the lightest available, but I have 200 kg of people and up to 100 kg of fuel plus an extra spare. Once you add all this and the fridge I already own with stuff in it, I am up for a trailer to legally carry any more as you point out.

The main reason I started this post was to answer people's questions as to the weight of the car with the common extras that mine has. I was actually pleasantly surprised that it wasn't more than 2740 kg. It is about the weight of a 200 series without all the goodies that mine has. Now I just have to figure out what I need to take on my trip and get things organised.

Has anyone got any ideas on what I can remove from the car to make it lighter, other than what I have already mentioned? How much do the third row seats weigh?

Bob

[discotwinturbo]

Bob, I saw a post on this forum for the rear seats.....I am pretty sure someone mentioned about 75kgs.
But then again I have also read that legally they can't be removed.....better off with the lower weight, as a cop may not even know about that rule. Best breaking the rule that has the best result.
Brett...

[Tombie]

That's because if a 4wd is overloaded its only by a couple of hundred kilos........and not being driven by someone on amphetamines (or out killing prostitutes as mr clarkson would say.)

Must sadly disagree with you there.

Most 4wd are well over... Often 500+kg over.

Which is 25% sometimes!

Most overloaded trucks are barely 2 tonnes over (B double)
Which is ~5%

Most 4wdrives are exceeding wheel rating and max axle loads which is a design criteria and can be deadly.

[Tombie]

Bob, I saw a post on this forum for the rear seats.....I am pretty sure someone mentioned about 75kgs.
But then again I have also read that legally they can't be removed.....better off with the lower weight, as a cop may not even know about that rule. Best breaking the rule that has the best result.
Brett...

Can be legally removed as long as not permanent.

[discotwinturbo]

Can be legally removed as long as not permanent.

Might have to remove mine then....

Brett....

[AGRO]

Removing the 3rd row of seats "temporarily" and the centre 2nd row seat reduces weight significantly - about equivalent to a full long range tank.

When I travel I replace the 2nd row centre seat with one of those cheap bins from the local hardware for additional storage for less used items. I replace the seat mounting bolts with eye bolts 4x and use them to hold/strap the bin and other items down - this still leaves four seats.

[Summiitt]

Yep, I always weight the vehicle the day before a trip just to see where it's at,
I think this is a great thread because the amount of times I have pulled up to help someone out bush with a mechanical or structural failure/ issue in all types of 4wds, and asked, how heavy is it? Very rarely do they have any idea.
Don't worry I wasn't having a go at you:) it's good to get people to think about their gvms, overloaded vehicles will always cause issues particularly in an emergency situation, where vehicle handling is important.Have fun on your trip!

[discotwinturbo]

Removing the 3rd row of seats "temporarily" and the centre 2nd row seat reduces weight significantly - about equivalent to a full long range tank.

When I travel I replace the 2nd row centre seat with one of those cheap bins from the local hardware for additional storage for less used items. I replace the seat mounting bolts with eye bolts 4x and use them to hold/strap the bin and other items down - this still leaves four seats.

I just can't get the torx bolts undone. Crikey they are tight. Might need to pop into a shop that has something more powerful to undo the bolts that had the rear seats in.

Brett....

[BobD]

Brett,

When you get the seats out can you please confirm their weight to help with my planning?

Are you taking them out because you are going on a trip or just to generally reduce weight to improve econimy etc? It will also provide a bit more storage space I guess although the lack of a flat floor could be an issue.

Bob

[lrdef110]

In Queensland we are allowed to remove rear seats 'temporarily' as long as they are easily refitted. As they are bolt in - bolt out, the removal is temporary, but it probably is a good idea to advise your insurer that you have temporarily removed the seats. I have 'temporarily' removed my rear seats since purchase in Oct 2010, but have covered this space with a set of bolt in aluminium drawers. The drawers weigh significantly less than the seats that were taken out and the drawers allow access to the former seat space for spares etc. On longer trips I also 'temporarily' remove the centre seats. I have not weighed these but they would have to go close to 30kgs each so that almost makes up for my 109 litre long range tank, and there is so much useable space without the seats. Obviously BobD you can't remove your centre seats but removing the rear set will give you some extra kg's.

[~Rich~]

I got a Torx bit to fit an 3/8 adaptor so a normal socket handle does the trick.
Yes the two rows of seats weigh heaps!
I didn't weight mine, the rearmost set is the heaviest, next the centre rear followed by the other two.
I have just made a plywood box to put a 60 ltr water bladder in, bolted down to the seat bolt holes as the floor is not flat and also has some locating pins sticking up !

[discotwinturbo]

Brett,

When you get the seats out can you please confirm their weight to help with my planning?

Are you taking them out because you are going on a trip or just to generally reduce weight to improve econimy etc? It will also provide a bit more storage space I guess although the lack of a flat floor could be an issue.

Bob

To shed weight. I trip bush as much as I can, but last time I could not get the bolts undone.
Will let you know the weight.
Brett...

[bcl]

Yep, I always weight the vehicle the day before a trip just to see where it's at,
I think this is a great thread because the amount of times I have pulled up to help someone out bush with a mechanical or structural failure/ issue in all types of 4wds, and asked, how heavy is it? Very rarely do they have any idea.
Don't worry I wasn't having a go at you:) it's good to get people to think about their gvms, overloaded vehicles will always cause issues particularly in an emergency situation, where vehicle handling is important.Have fun on your trip!

How do you weigh the vehicle. Do you take it to a weigh bridge each time.

[Summiitt]

Yep, I know it's tare weight Inc accesories, and the vehicles gvm, minus the 2 and you get your payload, Inc passengers.

[BobD]

I didn't make it clear but I weighed my vehicle on the Forrestfield public weighbridge at the great cost of $25 so that I would accurately know my tare weight with all the extras that have been added.

Summiitt, why do you need to know your payload if you weigh it fully loaded on a weighbridge as you stated? You just need to know that the measured weight is less than 3240 kg if it is a D4 or a bit less if it is a RRS. Strictly speaking you would also need to measure each axle to make sure the maximum axle loads specified by LR are not exceeded as well but that is getting way to pedantic for any practical situation.

Bob

[Plane Fixer]

Do not forget the Land Rover tare weight is with a full fuel tank and driver; after that it is then the load up to the specified gross.
Cheers, Graeme (another one)

[TerryO]

Are you sure Plane Fixer about LR allowing for the full tank of fuel and the driver?

I think I remember reading some where about LR allowing 75 kg for a driver but not sure about a full tank of fuel.

cheers,
Terry

[Didge]

I just spoke to a friend who is a mermaid, and they don't touch 4wds. They do on occasion pullover cars towing caravans up north. I am in WA.
Brett....

Haha - I was just told of that term "mermaid" last Saturday on an AULRO trip up at Lithgow. We all roared with laughter.

[discotwinturbo]

Haha - I was just told of that term "mermaid" last Saturday on an AULRO trip up at Lithgow. We all roared with laughter.

The truckees made this name up. They refer to them as ladies with scales.
Brett

[Didge]

So I heard but it wasn't ladies. Sounded like runts with scales, if you get my drift :)

[Plane Fixer]

Terry O
It appears the LR site specs have now been changed. The weight is now specified from xxxx.
The EEC weight includes tools, spare, fluids, and 75kg driver; sorry I read that as a full tank of fuel. As for a 75kg driver I am over that but SWMBO certainly fits that with plenty to spare:D:D:D.

[gghaggis]

It's been a while since I've checked the LR Australia site, but if they still quote tare as EEC kerb weight, that includes 75kg for the driver plus a full tank of fuel.

Cheers

Gordon

PS actually it's calculated as 90% fuel load

[discotwinturbo]

So I heard but it wasn't ladies. Sounded like runts with scales, if you get my drift :)

I put it politely.
Brett...

[Didge]

I disappoint myself when I'm so slow om the uptake :(

[stray dingo]

Terry O
The EEC weight includes tools, spare, fluids, and 75kg driver; sorry I read that as a full tank of fuel. .

the term 'Fluids' means fuel tank also.
Its a shame is only half a driver tho :D

[Duke4]

I was on a tag along tour last year and in our group there was a guy with a 200 cruiser with bull bar, winch, rear wheel carrier (dual), long range tank roof rack and awning, rear draws.
There was a discussion about vehicle weights at the camp fire and he mentioned that all this put the vehicle over the original GVM, he said it was very easy to do on the 200, he mentioned that he had an engineering place recertify the GVM?

Is this possible? It did have a lift kit, springs and shock upgrade

Regards

Paul

[discotwinturbo]

I was on a tag along tour last year and in our group there was a guy with a 200 cruiser with bull bar, winch, rear wheel carrier (dual), long range tank roof rack and awning, rear draws.
There was a discussion about vehicle weights at the camp fire and he mentioned that all this put the vehicle over the original GVM, he said it was very easy to do on the 200, he mentioned that he had an engineering place recertify the GVM?

Is this possible? It did have a lift kit, springs and shock upgrade

Regards

Paul

GVM upgrades are available for the 200. Not sure what it consists of, but I do know the springs are changed. Ultimate 4wd in WA do it, so I suppose it's available all over OZ.

Brett.....

[stray dingo]

GVM upgrades are available for the 200. Not sure what it consists of, but I do know the springs are changed. Ultimate 4wd in WA do it, so I suppose it's available all over OZ.

Brett.....

for me it was a toss up between a LC200 or D4. The only reason I looked at the LC200 was because of the upgrade.
ARB does one with Old Man Emu kit, and theres another couple too, but a mental blank who.
Basically, they are just a suspension upgrade, usually with a 40-50mm lift. Arb was about $2500 for another 300kg, and one of the others $3300 for about 400kg (IIRC). No change to rims, axles, brakes etc. No change to CVM.
Prices are for installation before first registration. If getting done afterwards, it suddenly gets a lot harder with engineering tests and potentially huge cost (even with the same components).

[camel_landy]

Those who read my posts will know that I regularly bang on about travelling light!!! If you read the Tom Shepherd book "Vehicle Dependant Expedition Guide" will also see how he also bangs on about it... ;)

I'm right behind you with looking at this weight thing seriously, the D4 is a very heavy vehicle to begin with!! Shed as much weight as you can and pack light... Remove the 2nd & 3rd row seats and if you have a winch & bar, ditch those too (use a hand winch).

M

[BobD]

My post was on the wrong topic. Now moved.

[TerryO]

Those who read my posts will know that I regularly bang on about travelling light!!! If you read the Tom Shepherd book "Vehicle Dependant Expedition Guide" will also see how he also bangs on about it... ;)

I'm right behind you with looking at this weight thing seriously, the D4 is a very heavy vehicle to begin with!! Shed as much weight as you can and pack light... Remove the 2nd & 3rd row seats and if you have a winch & bar, ditch those too (use a hand winch).

M


I'm all for travelling lite as well, but as for getting rid of an electric winch and bull bar and getting a hand winch well you can tell Tom the expert who wrote the book to jam the suggestion where the sun don't shine.

This is Australia not the UK, there are big gritters here in their millions that love jumping in front of you when your travelling at speed and they make a mess of your vehicle, sometimes even with a bull bar fitted.

And while everyone agrees that exercise is a good thing personally I have no intention of using a hand winch as heart attacks aren't high on my list of things I want to experience while four wheel driving.

D3/4's weigh well over 2.5 ton with just one person and fuel on board so they aren't lite to start off with, taking away or advising people not to fit proven and in this country often used safety features to try and keep the vehicle lite I don't believe is very good advice.

If you really want a lite 4x4 buy a Suzuki Sierra.

cheers,
Terry

[101RRS]

The best way Terry can travel light is to get rid of Terry :o

:D

Garry

[TerryO]

The best way Terry can travel light is to get rid of Terry :o

:D

Garry


Unfortunately I resemble that remark ...:p

cheers,
Terry

[Redback]

Unfortunately I resemble that remark ...:p

cheers,
Terry

And some:p

[101RRS]

And some:p

I was talking about how tall he is ;) - what are you talking about :)

[Redback]

I was talking about how tall he is ;) - what are you talking about :)

Same:angel:

[TerryO]

OK ok! ...can we now get back on topic about discussing the D3/4s weight rather than mine!

cheers,
Terry

[camel_landy]

I'm all for travelling lite as well, but as for getting rid of an electric winch and bull bar and getting a hand winch well you can tell Tom the expert who wrote the book to jam the suggestion where the sun don't shine.

This is Australia not the UK, there are big gritters here in their millions that love jumping in front of you when your travelling at speed and they make a mess of your vehicle, sometimes even with a bull bar fitted.

I know, I've travelled quite a bit across Oz too. :cool:

Swapping it out could give you another 70-100kg of payload and a manual winch, not only would get you fit but probably teach you how to drive. :p

It all adds up.

Mind you, if you're 1up in a Disco, you should be no where near the limits. If it was me, I'd even probably board out the inside & kip in it too.

M

PS... There's a difference between travelling light and driving a light car. ;)

[TerryO]

I know, I've travelled quite a bit across Oz too. :cool:

Swapping it out could give you another 70-100kg of payload and a manual winch, not only would get you fit but probably teach you how to drive. :p

It all adds up.

Mind you, if you're 1up in a Disco, you should be no where near the limits. If it was me, I'd even probably board out the inside & kip in it too.

M

PS... There's a difference between travelling light and driving a light car. ;)

Hello Camel Landy,

You are choosing to ignore the point about bull bars in Australia basically being a added driver safety device.

You talk about being able to carry another 100 kg in gear by getting rid of the Bull bar and winch then say you would look at boarding the vehicle out to sleep in it.

I guess that also means you also wouldn't have a cargo barrier? ...unless, that is, your very short :o

That's getting rid off another important safety item especially when your carrying camping gear. These are all your choices which is fine by me but personally I would rather have both a bull bar (with winch) and cargo barrier when going bush. I struggle to see how keeping a vehicle lite is more impotant then keeping its occupants safe and on the road.

cheers,
Terry

[gghaggis]

To my mind, the stripped-down versus safety issues will pan out differently depending on the expedition.

If I'm doing something like the CSR, I want to travel as light as possible (save fuel and not digging the vehicle out of the sand). I don't travel at night, so I don't feel the need for a bull-bar, nor a winch as I'm not travelling alone. I sleep in the car, but don't use a cargo barrier as everything is either tied down or stored under the false floor.

If I was night or dusk-travelling on sealed or unsealed roads, I would want the bull-bar, although with modern bull-bars mounted on crush cans only a few cm ahead of the front of the car, I'd still expect damage. So I'd probably go with an alloy bar to save weight.

If I was travelling alone, I wouldn't go without a winch - either a _good_ hand winch or an electric. Either one weighs roughly the same anyway, so not much to choose from in terms of weight-saving (my Tirfor + cable weighs 54kg).

Cheers,

Gordon

[TerryO]

Re the "the stripped-down versus safety issues will pan out differently depending on the expedition"

That is fine but it is highly unlikely an individual if they have have a bull bar, winch, rear wheel carrier etc fitted will take them off to make their vehicle lighter so they can take a trip across the CSR etc.

I come back to my original comment that a D3/4 is over a 2.5 ton vehicle on its own depending on what spec vehicle it is, add in a driver, bedding, water, food, cooking gear, fuel and maybe extra fuel for those long distance desert trips and chances are your Disco will be up around nearly 3 ton.
My HSE D3 with a full tank of fuel, dual battery system and me in it is 2.7 ton so getting up to 3 ton would be real easy.

If you add in a bull bar, winch, rear wheel carrier and long range tank then you will be up around the maximum legal weight of 3.2 ton. But you will be carrying the fuel safely, have the spare wheel in an easily accessible spot and have the safety and convenience of a winch Bull bar.

My point is what is a couple of hundred kilo's of weight when you are already driving a vehicle that when loaded lightly plus a full fuel tank for camping is already around 3 ton? We are are talking a difference of less than 10%.



cheers,
Terry

[gghaggis]

Re the "the stripped-down versus safety issues will pan out differently depending on the expedition"

That is fine but it is highly unlikely an individual if they have have a bull bar, winch, rear wheel carrier etc fitted will take them off to make their vehicle lighter so they can take a trip across the CSR etc.

Why not - I used to do it all the time? For comp work etc, I'd remove the bullbar, for touring I'd put it back on. It's not hard ........




My point is what is a couple of hundred kilo's of weight when you are already driving a vehicle that when loaded lightly plus a full fuel tank for camping is already around 3 ton? We are are talking a difference of less than 10%.

cheers,
Terry
It can make a difference to fuel range - which was _my_ point. Similar engined vehicles across the CSR on our trip showed a difference of around 1.5 l/100km between bullbar + winch + rear bar and cars without. There might have been other (lesser) contributing factors, but I think the weight difference was the main one.

Also of course, some people are quite particular about staying under the GVM, for legal and insurance reasons.

Cheers,

Gordon

[BobD]

Easy to take the bull bar off but not so easy to get all the plastic and steel that it replaces from the tip and put it back on!

Bob

[gghaggis]

Easy to take the bull bar off but not so easy to get all the plastic and steel that it replaces from the tip and put it back on!

Bob
True - forgot that I had modified the ARB bracket a little so that either the bullbar, or the plastic front bumper could be fitted relatively quickly. You can just see the extended recovery eyelets sticking out of the plastic bumper in this pic

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/05/67.jpg

Cheers,

Gordon

[TerryO]

It can make a difference to fuel range - which was _my_ point. Similar engined vehicles across the CSR on our trip showed a difference of around 1.5 l/100km between bullbar + winch + rear bar and cars without. There might have been other (lesser) contributing factors, but I think the weight difference was the main one.

Also of course, some people are quite particular about staying under the GVM, for legal and insurance reasons.

Cheers,

Gordon


Sounds to me if one has to take all the accepted and quite commonly purchased and bolted on off road extra's like bars/winches etc to do one of these trips legally and with decent fuel range then the D3/4 is possibly the wrong vehicle for the job.

Very few people I would guess would be prepared to take off all of their expensive off road bolt ons so they can then legally go and do a long trip into remote areas. Afterall most people actually bought the off road gear to actually one day go to those remote areas.

It would be interesting to see if you would need to strip down a similar bull bar/winch etc fitted out Defender or a diesel Patrol to be legal or get good fuel mileage.

cheers,
Terry

[BobD]

No amount of stripping a Patrol would give it good fuel mileage!

My son in law just weighed is stock GU with 4.2 turbo diesel with ARB bullbar and aluminium side steps and it came to 2500 kg. My D4 with all the fruit was 2740 kg and the D4 has a higher GVM I think. The only other mod he has is 5 Mickey Thomson 33 inch tyres on stock steel wheels replacing the stock tyres.

Come to think of it, I will also need to weigh my GOE 18 inch wheels and Conti Cross Contact AT 255/60/18 tyres to see how much they will add to the weight when I put them on for the trip, if anything.

Bob

[gghaggis]

Sounds to me if one has to take all the accepted and quite commonly purchased and bolted on off road extra's like bars/winches etc to do one of these trips legally and with decent fuel range then the D3/4 is possibly the wrong vehicle for the job.

Very few people I would guess would be prepared to take off all of their expensive off road bolt ons so they can then legally go and do a long trip into remote areas. Afterall most people actually bought the off road gear to actually one day go to those remote areas.

It would be interesting to see if you would need to strip down a similar bull bar/winch etc fitted out Defender or a diesel Patrol to be legal or get good fuel mileage.

cheers,
Terry

I doubt that many vehicles set up for touring and fully loaded would actually be legal. I see countless overloaded cars of all types when touring. But I take your point that most others wouldn't go to the trouble of fitting/removing on a trip-by-trip basis.

Personally I don't feel the need for a bullbar - as I said, I don't travel at dusk or night. I don't need a rear wheel carrier - it really isn't that hard to remove the spare from under the car if you pre-prepare access to the winch bolt in the cargo area. The second spare goes on the roof. I wouldn't lambaste people for suggesting you don't need these items - I've done plenty of remote trips without them and have never felt compromised.

If you feel your circumstances mean you need them, then that's fine too.

Cheers,

Gordon

[Fatso]

In january 1968 i drove a 1964 Mini Miner 850 from Sydney to Dampier in WA , the Nulabour was mostly sand and dirt , the road from carnavon to dampier was a nightmare of bulldust -bedrock - corrgations and flooded sections .The only off road eq i had was 2 spare wheels and a water bag & tools etc. Made it with a few minor hicups and drove to conditions ,which i believe is the secret to bush driving as opposed to fitting a lot of stuff to wiegh ones vehicle down . Just sayin .:cool:

[Redback]

I toured around on a motorbike for 10 to 15 years and didn't have an issue, doesn't mean it won't happen, just sayin;)

Baz.

[Tombie]

I toured around on a motorbike for 10 to 15 years and didn't have an issue, doesn't mean it won't happen, just sayin;)

Baz.

And I hadn't seen a Kangaroo (alive) on any outback road in the last 6 months.

Last week I hit 3...:o

[TerryO]

In january 1968 i drove a 1964 Mini Miner 850 from Sydney to Dampier in WA , the Nulabour was mostly sand and dirt , the road from carnavon to dampier was a nightmare of bulldust -bedrock - corrgations and flooded sections .The only off road eq i had was 2 spare wheels and a water bag & tools etc. Made it with a few minor hicups and drove to conditions ,which i believe is the secret to bush driving as opposed to fitting a lot of stuff to wiegh ones vehicle down . Just sayin .:cool:


Bugger I knew I should have bought a Mini Minor for outback touring instead of the Disco. ...;)

cheers,
Terry

[TerryO]

I toured around on a motorbike for 10 to 15 years and didn't have an issue, doesn't mean it won't happen, just sayin;)

Baz.

So I'm guessing Barry you must have reasoned when you recently fitted a winch bar, Dual rear wheel carrier, long range tank, roof rack, Cargo Barrier, rear draws and sliders to the D4 that you had used up all your luck back then so you needed all the protection you could get now? ...:angel:

cheers,
Terry

[Stuart02]

I don't need a rear wheel carrier - it really isn't that hard to remove the spare from under the car if you pre-prepare access to the winch bolt in the cargo area.

Gordon

How do you do that, Gordon, out of interest? It's the single worst feature of these and maybe any 4WD I've driven, and really worries me if I were to be caught loaded with a flat.
Thanks

[Stuart02]

I think the earlier point about suspension upgrades is key, too - a lot of ppl leave it til last, maybe understandably cos its the final empty weight isnt known, but to put all the other stuff on and then head off down the CSR would surely just be asking for trouble - LC200 or Mini!
Now if someone would just make heavy duty airbags and shockies (keep up the shockie testing Terry!) for D4....

[Redback]

So I'm guessing Barry you must have reasoned when you recently fitted a winch bar, Dual rear wheel carrier, long range tank, roof rack, Cargo Barrier, rear draws and sliders to the D4 that you had used up all your luck back then so you needed all the protection you could get now? ...:angel:

cheers,
Terry

No, I just like being prepared for the worst, I've been in a car when we have hit a Kangaroo, my fathers old Ford Prefect, roo 1, Prefect 0, even had a Kangaroo hop into the side of my old Triumph(car) between Wilcannia and Broken Hill, I've seen the damage they can do.

Also, not interested in carrying jerry cans, they leak they are smelly, dirty and they are heavy, wheel carriers are because rim and tyres are heavy, did the whole wheel on the roof thing, pain in the arse, I'm not 25 anymore, besides all our carrying of gear is in the camper, we carry minimal gear in the car now, the heaviest thing is the 40lt fridge, the camper ball weight is around 65kg, so not heavy at all compared to most.

Baz.

[gghaggis]

How do you do that, Gordon, out of interest? It's the single worst feature of these and maybe any 4WD I've driven, and really worries me if I were to be caught loaded with a flat.
Thanks
There's been a couple of write-ups about it. Cut a small hole in the boot floor, secure a socket + handle to the winch nut, that protrudes through the floor and pack your luggage around it. The small additional effort of deploying from the standard location, over the rear wheel carrier is, IMHO more than compensated by not having to unlock the damn carrier every time you want to get into the back (which is a _lot_ more often than needing the spare tyre) and consequent issues with the rear parking sensors.

If you need to fit a long-range fuel tank, then obviously the rear wheel carrier becomes a much greater priority.

Cheers,

Gordon

[BobD]

Yes, unlocking the rear wheel carrier each time you open the boot is a definite PITA but you learn to live with it. Now that weight is such an issue in my car I kind of wish I didn't have the rear bar and long range fuel tank. I can hardly use the tank anyway due to the 75 plus kg the fuel adds to the weight! However, it is nice to have the extra range when on long trips for those times when you are travelling light or towing.

Bob

[elsey]

I recently had a Long Range Automotive aux fuel tank and a Outback Accessories RWC fitted to my D4 by Opposite Lock Newcastle. Since it has been fitted the RWC it has not caused any interference at all with the rear parking sensors. IMO it might be a bit of an inconvenience to open and close the RWC each time you need to access the rear but I would not say that it is APITA. For everything that you do or every decision that you make in life there is some sort of trade off or compromise associated with it.

The aux fuel tank allowed me to travel from Newcastle to the Sunshine Coast towing my Bushtracker before having to refuel. A top-up at Rockhampton then allowed me to continue to north Qld without having to continually look for fuel stops and plan ahead as in the past. Every time the primary tank becomes a bit low I only have to hit the switch to transfer more fuel from the aux tank.

Elsey...

[BobD]

Elsey,

My bar is such a PITA that I have just bought another wheel carrier so I now have 2 to open when touring! Obviously a bit tongue in cheek. However, I do take the second wheel carrier off for around the city use to reduce weight and make it quicker to open the tailgate. I also leave the extra tank empty around the city to save weight. Refuelling is not a problem when you have a wife to do it!

We made it all the way across the Nullabor without refuelling so the long range tank saved us money in not having to buy fuel at massive prices. Also reduced the number of stops. However, there is also no doubt that all that extra weight limits the carrying capacity of the car.

Bob