Huge Thanks to the AULRO Community.

[Siska]

I have just finished reading for the third time Waggo's thread titled Hug Your Loved Ones. I would really like to thank the AULRO community, especially Wagoo and LandRoverWidow.

I don't really know where to start, and most here don't know me, so I'll start by telling you all a little about myself. I'm 33 years old, been married for 9 years to an awesome woman. We have a 15 month old son who I adore! He's absolutely perfect!! I'm quite a private person. I have quite a few friends, a couple of good mates, but no one that I have every shared everything with. Not even my wife. I've moved around a bit during my life, never really staying in one spot more than 5 years or so. Although I'm currently back in Melbourne for my third stint.
I come from a typical Kiwi Anglo family. Mum and Dad are still married, some 35 years now. I'm the youngest of three with an older brother and sister. Dad was as tough as old boots and very old school! He's mellowed a lot over the past ten years. He's hard working, still working 60+ hours a week even though he's passed retirement age. It wasn't until after I was married that I ever remember him telling me he loved me. I laughed at him and he's never said it again. Feelings, emotions, sickness have always been treated as weakness. Mum has always been a stay at home mum. She's had the odd job here and there when things were tight.

Although I've never had it diagnosed, I have been suffering from depression since I was about 16. It first reared it's head after my parents decided to move back to NZ from Melbourne. I got a job the second day I arrived in Matamata. Got my license, a car and everything seemed like it should be fine. But I wasn't! I just didn't want to exist. I became withdrawn. Wanted to be left alone. Didn't want to associate with anybody. I wanted to just snap out of it, get over it, harden up! But I couldn't! I had planned a place and a how to and given myself a time frame of how to end it all.
I think Mum picked up on it, but she never really said a lot about it. But I knew she was worried. I had a boat which I was restoring and I think working on that gave me a purpose, a goal. It allowed me to be alone, but also gave me something to work towards. Slowly the fog lifted and things didn't seem so bad and I pushed back the time frame. Then I forgot about the time frame and moved on, not thinking about this incident for a number of years.

There has been a few small incidents over the past 15 years where I felt the same, but nothing as bad as last year. As I said at the start of this post I have a pretty much perfect life. But last year I came extremely close again. In my mind ending my life was the best outcome for everyone. I would be doing my wife, my son, my family a favour. They would no longer have to put up with a sullen, moody, argumentative person. I would snap at small things and on some occasions verbally took things out on my wife. I was disinterested in my son. My wife would try cheer me up by showing me his new tricks, but I couldn't have cared less. They were better off without me!

Then something happened. LandRoverWidow posted about the tragic loss of her partner. The outpouring of emotion and support really did touch me. The loss and pain she experienced made me feel guilty. I had got to the stage where I had made my final preparations, but this made me sit back and think. It made me more determined to work my way out of this. I sent a message to Sarah, and until this day, she is the only one I have ever spoken to about my issues. I told myself I was going to see a doctor, but embarrasement and hard headedness has always put that off.

I managed to work through last years issues by taking on some small projects and spending time with my son. Taking him swimming each week has given me something to aim for and enjoy.

Then a couple of weeks ago things in my head started going bad again. I don't know what triggers these thoughts or emotions. I've tried to pinpoint certain things but cannot come up with an answer. Driving to work I was thinking about where and how. At night I'd sleep for a couple of hours and then wake up and become immediately annoyed at waking up. I never want to wake up. It would be so much easier if I just never woke up. I then wouldn't sleep again for the rest of the night.
Then browsing thru AULRO I came across Wagoo's thread. It once again drove home the loss felt by others when someone takes their own life. It's extraordinary to know that hurt and grief felt by such a wide section of people, some that your barely know.

I'd really sincerlely like to thank Wagoo and LandRoverWidow for their bravery for posting and sharing with us during these difficult times. They have both had a huge impact on me and really have saved my life. I've made an appointment to go and see a doctor, not sure if I will actually go, but at least I'm working towards living, not the other outcome.

[Barefoot Dave]

Mate, you are one hell of a Bloke.
It's people like You, Wagoo and Sarah that are making it more OK to talk about the subject of Depression and are LITERALLY saving lives!

It takes a concerted effort to see the beauty and goodness of this existence some days, I know. Hold onto the good stuff to see you through the foggy times. I am sure by Standing up like this, you are about to expand your support network like you wouldn't believe.
Find someone you trust, help them to see the signs and establish a strategy to get you through.
I understand when you start to slip, the last thing you want is somone 'fussing'or keeping you up. People in crisis often become self destructive as a means of exercising SOME control over the situation, no matter what the cost.

See the doc, even if you choose not to treat chemically, give some non-drug options like meditation or cognitive behavioural therapy a go.
Call Lifeline or your local confidential service a go.
Looks like you are already using the best medicine, though.
Quality time with your little miracle.
The BEST you can do for him is to share his life!
All the best for You all.
Dave.

[LandyAndy]

Hi Dannie.
VERY GOOD POST,please seek help when you are feeling so low,it would be so sad to loose yet another AULRO MATE.
Missing WA yet mate???
BE STRONG.
Andrew

[Ferret]

It wasn't until after I was married that I ever remember him telling me he loved me. I laughed at him and he's never said it again. Feelings, emotions, sickness have always been treated as weakness.

We have met each other out on the tracks through AULRO though I would not be surprised if you don't remember me specifically.

The last time I saw my father I gave him a hug as I was leaving. I don't know why - I had never done anything like that before - he was kind of remote. That was the last time I saw him, he died several months later. I look back and always remember how glad I was I did that.

Hope you do get round to see that doctor - something that I learnt in tough times was things are so much easier to handle when you don't have to face them alone.

[wardy1]

I've made an appointment to go and see a doctor, not sure if I will actually go
Siska, PLEASE make sure you go to that appointment! My wife (well now ex) has suffered depression for probably 30 years and has been successfully treated for it for about 20.
Depression is not something to trifle with. There is no way for the brain to process depression, it is a chemical imbalance. It is an illness and not something to be ashamed of.
You mentioned in your post that you have mood swings and sometimes lash out verbally against your wife. This will continue or could even get worse. The consequences of you not getting the help you need will inevitably lead you back to the dark thoughts and heaven forbid, you might just do it next time.
As someone who last year sat with a family who had experienced a loss by suicide I can tell you that they are not better off, and your family won't be either.
If you get the treatment you need the mood swings will reduce or become less severe, you'll begin to see things in a better light, you will cope with things when they don't go according to plan...... There is no 'downside' to getting treatment. There is plenty of downside if you don't.
It's true that some medications can make you feel like crap. It takes a while for your body to adjust and also for your doctor to find the right drugs and in the right dosage for you. Just persist and you'll get better.

Please mate, let's not have another thread on here about someone losing a loved one because of depression. You've made the appointment......JUST GO!

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

Siska I know exactly what your going through, it's the same with me.
Never be embarrassed to seek help.
I regularly see a psychiatrist and also a psychologist and am on a high dose of antidepressants. The side effects are sometimes I get too sedated.
I was close to suicide a couple of years ago so I rang one of my pain specialists and he got me into a head shrink very quickly. It was a long process of sorting out which meds would agree with me as some had side effect. Currently I take 6 tofranil each night, this seem a little better now, but once I didn't have a supply and it was hell for a couple of days without them, as I am now addicted to them.
It's a hard subject to talk to others about, but getting help is only a phone call away. If you can't discuss your feelings and problems with those close to you see a specialist. I call mine "renta friend", I can ventilate with her on things that I don't want to burden my wife and kids with.
I found that talking openly about my problem helps friends understand my mood swings, and flat days. When I go to the shrinks, I see lots of other people in the same boat, the waiting rooms are full. Realising that your not alone is a big plus. As I felt alienated from the rest of the public.
Shops I regularly go to also understand my condition, and some times I can have anxiety bouts which they are aware of and patiently will wait with understanding until I can compose myself.
The tremendous thing about this forum, is even though some times we have a difference of opinion or views, when some one is in need to help, it's nice to see that the forum community are there to listen. Knowing the people here care is a big plus.

[p38arover]

Having suffered from depression myself, it doesn't help when people around you (not my wife) tell you to snap out of it or to get a life. See a doctor, try counselling. It can all help.

Fortunately, I never had the "they'd be better off without me" thoughts.

[Land Rover Widow]

Hi Dannie
I still have the message you sent me, you sent it exactly five hours after I found Simon, to the minute...I was watching the clock at the time, I remember it. You told me he knew he was loved and asked me not to blame myself. It was one of the first private messages I had on here and I remember it well.
It wasn't the last one I had from members here mentioning they have felt the same as you. I would not be surprised if others reach out to you privately and share their stories with you.

One of the things I appreciate most about AULRO is that people here allow themselves to be vulnerable in an effort to help those around them. It's an amazing thing and one that shows such strength.

Dannie. Appointments are hard to go to. I made an appointment with a counsellor after Simon died and I did not want to go... I am the sort of person who likes everyone to think they're ok and don't like to create a fuss. For me it was very very confronting, I didn't want to be judged or questioned or made to feel like a fool. And a hundred other thoughts as well. They all turned out to be ridiculous worries, it was nothing like I imagined. It was really just unbiased conversation where the counsellor guided me to new perspectives on different issues. Not just about Simon, but about my life in general. It helped. And it was nice to just vent to someone who didn't have any opinions about me. I didn't feel analysed or stereotyped or...I don't know. It was useful and I am glad I did it now.

Keep safe.

Sarah

oh...and to add, Your little boy is the age Lucas was when his Dad passed, I know you already know it, but he's not better off with out you. He deserves to know YOU, not other people's recollections.

[dswatts]

You've made a great start by writing here, I really admire your honesty.
These things should be talked about and expressed, not bottled up.
Seek help where you can, and feel proud about doing so.
It takes a brave man to admit these things!
Make an appointment and speak to someone, even if your feeling stronger.


Good on you!

Dylan

[Disco Muppet]

To have the balls to be able to put this up is really something else.
Talking about this sort of thing can be hard, believe me i've been there.
Talk to someone. I've never been to a shrink or anything like that, but if you can find someone close to you, someone you trust who you can confide in, it makes the world of difference. For you, it seems like Land Rover Widow is yours, so thats a big step in the right direction.
Chin up, and never be afraid to ask for help
All the best mate.
Muppet

[Basil135]

Hi Dannie,

Depression is something that has become more out in the open in recent times. People like Jeff Kennett have made statements, and that seems to be breaking down the stigma attached.

As Wardy said, the first step is to realise that depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain. It is not something that you can control, nor is it something you can "snap out of" as some people assume you can. To put it another way, if you had a bad kidney, liver, heart etc, you would seek medial treatment.

Depression is no different. It needs to be treated. It may or may not include medication, but only a doctor can really make that call. If the chosen path, chosen by you AND the doctor, is medication, then it might take a little trial and error to find the right one. But, in the long run, it will be worth it.

I sometimes think that depression could be genetic. The women on both sides of my family have being diagnosed with it. This means that we keep an eye on the younger ones, to be aware of any signs.

Mate, if you have an appointment with a doctor, do yourself, your wife & your son a big favour, and keep it.

And dont EVER think that the world would be better without you. It wont. One final word of advice - if you are feeling low, go & sit with your son as he sleeps. The simple sound of his breathing can do wonders...

[poleonpom]

Hi Dannie,

I have clinical depression in the form of bi-polar disorder. I tell everyone I work with and meet and let them decide if their limitations stop them from continuing, so far no-one that matters has. I am on medication for life but I am not a zombie nor am I limited in my life or work.

When I was diagnosed I told everyone, including my clients, one of them said they thought I was bi-polar when they engaged me! Even my wife said she wasn't surprised - so my initial anxiety to see the doctor was only because I thought people would notice; they already knew!

As a condition, depression plays havoc with your mind, it is a disease and it will not allow you to think straight - your normal self would be engaged with your son and wife, your depressed self counters this yet there is no clear reason. Deep down you'll know this, so when you feel down, a trick I use is to say that I don't normally feel this way and it is the "disease" talking.

YOU MUST SEE your Doctor and tell them these thoughts. Your Doctor must give you a referral to a Clinical Psychologist (make sure it is a Clinical Psychologist) and get a prescription. You then MUST SEE the CP asap.

I've had the most amazing positive results and have learnt how to recognise the problems and manage them. I'm going to pm you my number and you can call me if you'd like support.

You can get on tip of it.

As Churchill, another great depressive, said: KBO, which means Keep Buggering On,

Jonathan

[superquag]

... Apart from some interesting and non-conventional (ie, drugs/medications) treatments from the 'Alternate' side of the tracks, I know that several of my friends use exercise to counter the worst of it. Not just a 10 minute amble for them but running or cycling., - One enters Iron-Man competitions and finishes with respectable times...

I've never believed that depression reduces your innate capacity to 'do' things, or function, but it erodes YOUR own opinion of your value, and performance. Does'nt make much of a differance to OTHER people... - as Jonathan mentioned, one client engaged his services, 'suspecting' he was bi-polar... Obviously did'nt think that would affect his value & performance.

"...As Churchill, another great depressive, said: KBO, which means Keep Buggering On..."

Got to admit, that I feel loads better for it. - When I do it ...:p

[newhue]

Dannie, I would think sharing this with your wife can only bring you closer. If you cant tell her perhaps pop here in front of your post.

Re your dad, I know when I said I love you to mine and gave him a huge he just de solved and lots it. I was not expecting that at all and I didn't know how to handle it really. I just kept hugging him but I haven't done it since, and that was several years ago now. We see each other a fair bit, get along well, but nothing much more or deeper.

So if you think you are not worth much, you just gave me idea, and i think two people will be better of because of you.

[SimonM]

Hi mate,

As others have said writing about your experience on here is a great thing to do, not just for you but for others.

I would really encourage you to seek out some form of help. As a psychologist and someone who has also seen a psychologist for depression and panic attacks many years ago I know that it can help. However, everyone is different so you need to source someone or soemthing that works for you. Do some research of the different treatment methods out there and pick one that sits well with you.

For me personally Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) and also practicing Buddhism was my way to live my life as best as I could, but you need to find your own path that works for you. What works for one wont work for all.

Many people talk about depression as a disease and chemical imbalance, maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Anti depressants work for some people, but they don't work for everyone, the research is out there. The drug companies have a vested interest in the medical model of depression. To me this leads to disempowerment and leads people to beleive that there is nothing they can do about it as they are sick, and they have "bad" thoughts and "bad" feelings which they must get rid of before they can get "better". People then spend a great deal of time and energy trying to get rid of these thoughts and feelings and therefore have difficulty focusing and doing what is important in their life.

Sorry mate for my rant i have more to say but perhaps we shoud start a depression treatment thread so that people are aware of the different options open to them.

Best of luck mate, remember to LIVE life, DO what is important and dont live life too much in your head. Life exists in what we DO not what we think we SHOULD do or SHOULD have done. Mind you I have just told you what you SHOULD do lol.

[sashadidi]

... Apart from some interesting and non-conventional (ie, drugs/medications) treatments from the 'Alternate' side of the tracks, I know that several of my friends use exercise to counter the worst of it. Not just a 10 minute amble for them but running or cycling., - One enters Iron-Man competitions and finishes with respectable times...

I've never believed that depression reduces your innate capacity to 'do' things, or function, but it erodes YOUR own opinion of your value, and performance. Does'nt make much of a differance to OTHER people... - as Jonathan mentioned, one client engaged his services, 'suspecting' he was bi-polar... Obviously did'nt think that would affect his value & performance.

"...As Churchill, another great depressive, said: KBO, which means Keep Buggering On..."

Got to admit, that I feel loads better for it. - When I do it ...:p

Great post Exercise certainly helps, being a kiwi you might relate to this about John Kirwan the All Black
John Kirwan's All Black's Don't Cry: A Story of Hope Book - Buy it at Mighty Ape NZ (http://www.mightyape.co.nz/product/Book/All-Blacks-Dont-Cry-A-Story-of-Hope/8096674/)

[Beckford]

Siska,

Posting on here is a massive step in the right direction.

My brother kept all of his problems to himself, until the unthinkable happened at age 23. Some people with the Black Dog are very good at hiding what is really going on.

The appointment with the doctor may seem awkward, but it gets much easier after that. It is your choice to see a Psychologist or a Clinical Psychologist (with drugs). Medicare covers 6 visits and a further 6 visits if you go back to GP again.

I have not suffered depression personally, so I can only imagine what the Black Dog is like. I have / do suffer from anxiety and are happy to share my experiences with anyone.

Please PM me if you want to talk about anything.

Beckford.

[isuzurover]

Dannie,

Hang in there mate. You are one of the best blokes I have met in the LR community over the years.

I agree with LandyAndy's (and other) comments - if the black dog descends - seek help rather than contemplating drastic actions.

Ben.

[Siska]

Thanks to everyone for their words of support. One of the reasons for posting this was so that I would have to tell my wife. I've never been good at communicating feelings and expressing what is going on personally. I'd written the opening message a couple of times over the past few months, but always deleted it before sending to her. So by posting it here it forced my hand to sit her down and show her. She was quite upset at first, but after a bit of time to digest what I had said we've had a good talk about things. I think this is definitely the closest we've been in years.

Thanks again everyone!

[superquag]

Dear Mrs Siska,

On behalf of your husband, all of us blokes would like to apologise,,,... 'cos we're pretty useless when it comes to emoshins, um 'emow-shuns', er...emooshends... ahhh, those 'weird touchy-feely thingy feeelings'.
Sorry.,

- But we know heaps about Land Rovers... and opening lids on jars and squishing monster spiders lurking in the dunny.

Cheers,

James.

[poleonpom]

as Jonathan mentioned, one client engaged his services, 'suspecting' he was bi-polar... Obviously did'nt think that would affect his value & performance.

On the contrary, when I told him that after the treatment I'd be "normal" he said that if he wanted "normal" he could get any idiot off of the street - what he wanted is the way I think, he said my 'illness' gives me an edge on everyone else!

[wagoo]

Hi Dannie, Sorry, I have taken a few days off from the internet to try to sort out some inter family issues and only just caught this thread.



Although we may not have met,I am extremely concerned with the problems you are experiencing and can only reiterate what others have advised, and that is to go see that doctor and get help ASAP. Hopefully he/she can find some medication that will keep your condition under control or can refer you for psychological counceling.
One thing I can guarantee you is no matter how you feel inside, your friends and family will certainly not be better off with you gone. Aside from the immense grief of finding a loved spouse,son/daughter, brother/sister, mother/father or dear friend who has taken their own life, there are the every day matters that family left behind have to contend with during and after the grieving process.My wife may have thought that she planned things well in advance, but the reality is that she has left one hell of mess to sort out.
I mentioned the EACH 'day to day' living group in my thread, and that despite my wifes loss, I cannot praise them highly enough for their empathy, support and dedication to helping people with psychological problems. I will be joining the mutual support group on their activities on Tues and Thurs next week,and also to talk with their Chaplain (non denominational) about a few emotional issues, and if you don't mind I would like to print out your first post and show it to the staff and ask if they can offer you some councelling at one of their branches that is handy to where you live.
At this time unfortunately I do not have too many answers, but if I can be of any help to you please don't hesitate to ask. Furthermore, if you are not already a LROCV member and would like a bit of company with some of the LandRover family, or a one on one chat, I would like to invite you to my property in Dixons Creek next weekend. We are having one of our 2 monthly trials events on Sunday 3rd June. Depending on the weather, some members also camp over on the Saturday. If you prefer to remain Incognito, that's fine too, as non member mates of mine occasionally turn up for the day.
The 'Trials Family' are a friendly, close knit faction within the club that have given me enormous support these past couple of weeks, for which I will always be gratefull.
Sincerest regards, Bill.

[justinc]

Hi Siska. Sorry I have taken a few days off from the internet to try to sort out some inter family issues and only just caught this thread.



Although we may not have met,I am extremely concerned with the problems you are experiencing and can only reiterate what others have advised, and that is to go see that doctor and get help ASAP. Hopefully he/she can find some medication that will keep your condition under control or can refer you for psychological counceling.
One thing I can guarantee you is no matter how you feel inside, your friends and family will certainly not be better off with you gone. Aside from the immense grief of finding a loved spouse,son/daughter, brother/sister, mother/father or dear friend who has taken their own life, there are the every day matters that family left behind have to contend with during and after the grieving process.My wife may have thought that she planned things well in advance, but the reality is that she has left one hell of mess to sort out.
I mentioned the EACH 'day to day' living group in my thread, and that despite my wifes loss, I cannot praise them highly enough for their empathy, support and dedication to helping people with psychological problems. I will be joining the mutual support group on their activities on Tues and Thurs next week,and also to talk with their Chaplain (non denominational) about a few emotional issues, and if you don't mind I would like to print out your first post and show it to the staff and ask if they can offer you some councelling at one of their branches that is handy to where you live.
At this time unfortunately I do not have too many answers, but if I can be of any help to you please don't hesitate to ask. Furthermore, if you are not already a LROCV member and would like a bit of company with some of the LandRover family, or a one on one chat, I would like to invite you to my property in Dixons Creek next weekend. We are having one of our 2 monthly trials events on Sunday 3rd June. Depending on the weather, some members also camp over on the Saturday. If you prefer to remain Incognito, that's fine too, as occasionally non member mates of mine occasionally turn up for the day.
The 'Trials Family' are a friendly, close knit faction within the club that have given me enormous support these past couple of weeks, for which I will always be gratefull.
Sincerest regards, Bill.

You are a one of a kind Bill, hat off to you:)

JC