New Defender or old Defender?

[Gruntled]

Hi All,
I'm seriously considering a Defender. I have quite a few questions about the Defender, which I will outline below, and I'd love to hear your collective wisdom!

I have owned a 1989 Landcruiser Troopy and presently drive a 1977 Landcruiser FJ40. The Troopy was extremely reliable and took me all over the country. The FJ40 is an old heap of junk with too many issues to be considered to long trips. Nevertheless I drive her every day to work and back.

What I need is a reliable 4WD to take me out into the never-never and back again. This car will also be my daily driver. Landrovers have recently piqued my interest. What are the differences between the newer Defender models? It is worth buying a 2012 Defender (I understand they have a new engine?) or paying less for an older model that is tried and true. What are the better models and years, if any? And, contentiously, why should I get a Landrover over a Landcruiser?

Thanks in advance for your advice!
Scott

[Disco Muppet]

G'day, and welcome to the forum!

Early defenders had the 200tdi engine, which was by all counts an excellent engine. (AFAIK)
Next came the 300tdi, which many view as being one of the best engines, as they have cheap maintenance costs, can take a flogging and virtually run forever. Only issue with the 300tdi is the timing belt, which requires replacing ever 80k kms or so.
Next up was the Td5, which is what i have (Not in a defender mind you).
Excellent engine, the best IMHO, the Achilles heal that they suffer from is head gasket issue, which can be a pain but besides this they're bullet proof.
Most recent defenders have the Puma engines, which have a smaller capacity but i haven't heard of any major issues with them.
It all depends on what sort you want really. LWB, SWB, tray, cab, etc.
If it were me, i'd find a good 300tdi, 110 or 130, whatever floats your boat, and kit it out for touring.
If you can spend a bit more, find a good Td5 thats been well looked after, and keep it that way.
As i said, it all depends on what you want :D
This is all from my pretty limited understanding of Defenders, seeing as i drive a Discovery :D
Some of the more Deefer oriented members will no doubt riddle my argument with holes, but just my two bobs worth :D
Hope this helps
Cheers
Muppet


P.S oh and why SHOULDN'T you get a LandRover? :p
Do it, you won't regret it if you treat it right!;)

[Gruntled]

Thanks for the quick overview - most helpful! I will, of course, treat the vehicle well, insofar as maintenance goes at least! I want a LWB for long trips to remote locations. I've heard all the usual carry-on about Landrovers being unreliable, but I consider much of that talk unreliable in itself and can't find much evidence to support it. I've found both my Landcruisers very reliable, and I'd like to get something that will carry me on adventures for the next 15 years without much fuss! I appreciate the idea of better fuel economy, which is the main reason for considering a Defender over a Landcruiser at this stage.
Thanks again, I look forward to hearing more opinions.

[bcj]

test driver a defender or two to see if u fit, they are a "commercial" - personally my tdi's vynal seat's & rubber floors work well with gumboot's & and cow mud?
Myself , tdi no wizbang gadgetry. But an old car now if you listen to salesmen (my series3 only needs a battery!)- u just gotta find a good one. Easy to fix, simple and cheap.
For the money of a puma u could have a well sorted tdi, boat & dirtbike ;) ( all with no warranty), but if I bought a good lottery ticket this week I'll be getting a new 110 crewcab puma
Timing belt is normal service with tdi's, can be done at home. Only issue's I've had ,P gasket , clutch master :( and recently at 190k new fuel tank (my 110 did live near the sea)

Brett

110 300 tdi

[Gruntled]

Another question: can anyone explain what the "..MY" describes in the model name?

[bcj]

manufacture year

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

Another question: can anyone explain what the "..MY" describes in the model name?
Manufacture year.
ie: MY2001 is made in 2001

[Gruntled]

Thanks, Gentlemen! But then why can I see advertised a "2006 Defender 03MY"? Did it sit in someone's shed for 3 years? Doesn't an 03MY equate to a 2003 Defender?
For example at: http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/land-rover-defender-2006-12595254?base=1216&vertical=Car&eapi=2&Page=2&sort=Price&cr=25&__N=4294965541%204294964692%201216%201252%201282&silo=Stock&Range=Price:Min,Max~0.5

[goingbush]

Hey Gruntled ,

I used to be a Landrover Freak, Its all I used to eat , sleep & work for, then I had a realisation that I was spending more time working on them than driving them and never had any money, sold my pride & joy (worst think I ever did) and went 4wd-less for a few years, took up less expensive hobbies and survived by going bush on motorbikes.

Then I saw a sad BJ40 on the side of the road & had to buy it, followed soon by 3 more 40 series cruiser, then an 80 series and a 105 cruiser. The Toyotas
held up to their legendary reliability status but always something was missing, No Toyota I had was near as capable off road, well they may have been but I was too chicken to try the stuff I would not blink at in the past in a LandRover, What kept me smiling was I never had to work on them, but still something was missing - they were like white-goods, had no soul.

On a round Australia trip I had a Cam sieze on the 80 series & valves went thru a couple of pistons, Then it occurred to me that it was the first time (apart from a rollover in a Series 2) that I ever had to walk away from a 4wd, ( I later drove the Series 2 home after getting it winched back ), I bought the 105 in Broome to finish the trip with & the 80 Series went to the Broome wreckers.

I was so close to buying a new FJCruiser for work, I would have for sure if they came in Diesel / Manual and that would have been a very big mistake because I bought a used 2004 Td5 Defender 110 ( from someone here on AULRO) which suited my work needs better.

Even after a 20 year break from Landrovers I instantly felt at home in the Defender, it was like getting to know a long lost friend again, and we are inseperable now, True my tools have come out of retirement, but I don't mind working on it at all. Not that anything really needs to be done, I just keep fiddling. In fact the Landrover is so good both on and off road I that I found I didn't drive the Toyotas any more so sold them & don't regret it one bit.

After the 80 & 100 series the Defender dosent have much elbow room , the A/C and heater is rubbish & it gets dusty but if your used to a 40 -70 you will be fine. and the Td5, Fantastic, best engine I ever had , The only criticism I can find after being used to a Toyota is that 1st gear is not low enough for starting off on an incline when towing a van.

All I can say is go for a test drive and good luck with your decision.

I hope you don't become Dis-Gruntled

cheers Don link to my website (http://goingbush.com)

[33chinacars]

MY is model or manufacture year. Usually starts late in the year before. ie MY04 may have started November 03 etc

As for your Q about 2006 MY 03 noy sure about defenders bit I think in some other cases in no changes made a MY could go for a couple of years

Gary

[lambrover]

Ha mate welcome.

I reckon you would notice a fare bit of difference between an old cruiser and a defender. Comfort would be much better with coils all round.

As some have mentioned it depends on how you think about electronics,this will determine to a degree which vehicle you end up with.

I would not get a 200tdi, they are a good engine but getting hard to get parts for now.

the 300tdi would be good if you want no electronics.

td5 much better power but electronic.

the big difference between these models are the engines, the late model td5 have a smaller rear diff, so look for one with a salisbury diff, much stronger.

these vehicles are much better onn fuel than the cruiser as you have pointed out as well. they are great for touring and have a great pay load.

The MY= model year

[Gruntled]

You guys are very helpful! Thanks! So, would it be worth the expense to buy a new Defender (2011-12) or reducing outlay and buying something pre-2007 (pre-Puma) with a TD5? I must confess I don't have much time to fiddle with engines, although I don't mind doing the fluid changes etc. as required. While it's not always realistic, I'd prefer to have something that is "set-and-forget"; I want minimal maintenance for a few years at least.
One thing I should say is that I use my 4WD's in the correct fashion, i.e. I torture them offroad. And the only vehicle ever to tow me out of a bog in my Troopy was a 2002 (?) Defender XTreme, which did so with ease!

[Disco Muppet]

I'd go the Td5, but thats just me!
They'll get you wherever you want to go, but they require a bit in return.
If you make sure you keep it well maintained, find a good LR mechanic for services, and look out for the warning signs of the little issues they have and they'll go fine!
Go the Td5....you know you want to.... :D
Cheers
Muppet

[TimNZ]

Take them both for a drive and see what suits you best. There's plenty for and against for all types of Defenders.

Cheers,

[Marty110]

Hi and welcome. I have had both - cruisers and landrovers and currently have a puma defender. Previously I had a 300TDi and almost wish I had kept it!! I had it for 13 years and 300,000k with a lot of off road and as daily drive for work and play. Why I like the Defender over the Cruiser - firstly the comfort - for a fairly basic work truck for me they are very comfortable compared to a cruiser. I have a crook back and I just wouldn't still be able to drive a Cruiser. Second - the economy and third - reliability. Yep thats right reliability AND Landrover in the same sentence. The main problem with unreliable Defenders IMHO is lack of preventative maintenance. Do your research on the model you buy - they all have weaknesses - and spend the dollars to upgrade the suspect bits and make sure you do the maintenance. I have never been let down yet (he says touching his wooden head). They are cheaper to buy which means more to spend on equipping it to do what you need and/or want. Hope that helps, cheers and good luck!!

[lambrover]

You guys are very helpful! Thanks! So, would it be worth the expense to buy a new Defender (2011-12) or reducing outlay and buying something pre-2007 (pre-Puma) with a TD5? I must confess I don't have much time to fiddle with engines, although I don't mind doing the fluid changes etc. as required. While it's not always realistic, I'd prefer to have something that is "set-and-forget"; I want minimal maintenance for a few years at least.
One thing I should say is that I use my 4WD's in the correct fashion, i.e. I torture them offroad. And the only vehicle ever to tow me out of a bog in my Troopy was a 2002 (?) Defender XTreme, which did so with ease!

With this I would go a early Puma or low km td5. Test drive both mate they are different.

If you like to punish them offroad upgraded axles are cheap and a good upgrade.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[Gruntled]

But then I read thread like this one and get all scared!
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/114709-puma-engine-problems.html

[jakeslouw]

Puma engine: "The engine, if I am correct has been used in 56 million transit vans and covered 56 billion kilometres."

The weak part on the Puma AFAIK is the gearbox and the diffs.

Get a low mileage, well sorted TD5 and you'll be happy as.

[Disco Muppet]

PUMA engines seem to be having some issues with fuel contamination, never had any issues with the Td5 i drive.
Take them for a drive, but prefer the Td5. Next choice would be 300tdi for me.
Best of luck
Cheers
Muppet

[Firefish]

Owned an FJ40 many years ago. Lots of fun but would try and kill me on a regular basis. Most interesting thing it would do was kill lights and ignition when I flicked high beam and spots on. Very interesting when coming up to a dark bend on a country road at night.

More recently owned an '04 Troopy for some years. Great truck and versatile for one person, but overtaking required some serious advance planning. Also Cruisers are everywhere up here - and no-one bothers waving.

Most recently acquired a 110 Puma and love it. Driving it back-to-back with the Troopy never realised how light the Toyota clutch and box was. Went for the new LR partly because of a lack of used options locally, but also to get a vehicle with a blank slate so to speak. Suspect that at least some problems people have are due to unsympathetic driver technique and questionable servicing history. A new Puma also seemed like great value when I looked at the price of a new Landcruiser.

[Disco Muppet]

never realised how light the Toyota clutch and box was..

I know exactly what you mean.
I hate the landcruiser clutches :mad:
Having been auto trained, I slowly got the hang of manuals when working with a mate's dad as a driller.
Spent most of my time driving a beat up Daihatsu POS with a 1000 litre tank on the back, bald tires, no working electrics and a gear box that was a lucky dip, and I found it preferable to the landcruiser I had to take into town...
So many stalls and bunny hops, lucky I didn't get pulled over :D
Even my dad's Navara with a fully loaded trailer went better :D
Cheers
Muppet

[frantic]

It all comes down to the dollars you want to spend. The td5 defender lost the stronger rear axle in 03 ( I have a 2002 with the Salisbury axle) . The problems I have had where the power steering box leaking ,which was cheaper to replace with a new uk import, A fuel pressure regulator which was sent from all fourx4 Newcastle and a slave cylinder for the clutch.
The other things are optional, Detroit rear locker, hy tuff rear axles, Gwynn Lewis suspension dobinsons springs ome shocks from a patrol(60070L) bighorn 255/85's. Next wants are Xbox and stronger cv's and front axles but being a def with TC you need the correct gear.
From what I've read about the puma it is good but you need to be carefull if you put a lift in as the front prop has issues sometimes. Also the rear diff is weaker but easily upgraded. It has a nicer interior and the engine is a ford so parts easily available.

[Judo]

If you have the money, a late TD5 or Puma is your options. If they seem pricey, a 300TDI is what you're looking at. In my opinion, any vehicle that's 1990's (300TDI's for Land Rovers), you need to expect some issues, purely because of age. For that reason, if you want reliability and have the budget, go a TD5 or Puma.

You'll find TD5 vs Puma an ongoing argument on the forums. A lot of opinion regarding personal choice (fair enough) in amongst the facts. These 2 describe a lot of the real differences, along with plenty of discussion on personal choice. ;)

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/71380-td5-vs-tdci-under-bonnet-differences.html
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/149519-td5-puma-perpetual-question.html

If you want variations in the TD5 years:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/150238-td5-defender-variations.html

Good luck! :)

[Gruntled]

Thanks for all the great info guys, it's very much appreciated! This is going to be a tough decision :o

[mqs]

Never thought, this is going to be my first post, but please let me know, what is this song in the video in your web site. Thank you advance!

LandRover series one.mp4 - YouTube




cheers Don link to my website (http://goingbush.com)

[goingbush]

Hi MQS, its Astral Projection from MusicShake, glad you like it,
Astral Projection - created by microdot12 (http://eng.musicshake.com/song?pn=50242#!/song?pn=50242)



Now that you posted the video it reminded me I have some still shots from that trip, there are a few with headlights behind the grille, I'll try & dig them out, wonder where all those Landys are now. Mine on that trip was my '54 86" the 49 model came a year later.

[Disco Muppet]

Now that you posted the video it reminded me I have some still shots from that trip, there are a few with headlights behind the grille, I'll try & dig them out, wonder where all those Landys are now. Mine on that trip was my '54 86" the 49 model came a year later.

My dad just dug up the photos he took from the LROC trips he went on in the 70s....lots of history in them! ill try and scan them, put some up
Cheers
Muppet

[blitz]

My choice would be an isuzu 3.9 110 never owned one but would sell my soul to get one

[centy]

I've just brought a 93 defender so in a few weeks ask me my first impression.
i have previously owned series 2a 6cy wagon and a 2a diesel ute.
i have driven f250 and triton utes and both feel so very wrong to drive and get in and out of.

i brought a 200 tdi for 2 reasons i would have trouble getting a td5 on my budget and 200tdi seems to have fewer issues then 300tdi.
no replacement of heads due to poor design.

Im wanting to keep it for, well till i die.
you cant do that with a cruiser.

[Gruntled]

Im wanting to keep it for, well till i die.
you cant do that with a cruiser.
You're making that comment to someone who daily drives at least 120 km in a 35 year-old Land Cruiser?! :eek:

I digress...

[centy]

When i had the wagon it was 40 and could do 90 mlles an hr while getting same fuel economy qs a new cruiser. Old rover dont die they get sold and abusd some more

[spudboy]

If there is a "Mrs Gruntled" involved in this at all, I'd reckon you'll end up with a PUMA. Mrs Spud will not drive our TD5 130 - way too agricultural apparentley. She will however drive the PUMA happily.

6 speed gearbox gives lower 1st and better cruising in 6th. No shouting at each other at 110Km/h. Aircon works and doesn't freeze your knees. Heating that works. They are almost civilized.

Strangely the fuel economy is not better in the newer motor.

Cheers
David

[redneb72]

Thanks for an honest description Spudboy and for not letting biases get in the way!

[Didge]

My choice would be an isuzu 3.9 110 never owned one but would sell my soul to get one


looks like you're going to heaven or hell hehehehehe! ...... there's one for sale in the markets section $9K!

[centy]

looks like you're going to heaven or hell hehehehehe! ...... there's one for sale in the markets section $9K!
one for sale on gumtree near rockhampton and 11 seater
$7900 but has been listed a while

[Didge]

Looks like blitz has no excuses now :)

[PAT303]

I've just come back from a 3K round trip from 80 mile beach and Broome and I'll have my TDCi anyday,I love the earlier models but the TDCi wins. Pat

[Didge]

yeah, I was just looking at a video on the latest Defs tonight on the net and despite having the 96 model 300Tdi, I'd swap it for a new one; quieter, faster, smoother, so much nicer inside, ooooh makes me drool but alas I've have to feed 4 other people (wife and kids) and that keeps me poor so I won't be getting one for a while :(

[Allan]

I love the Puma when we go away, loads of gear, boat in tow. It would be hard to beat. But I am very lucky, my other half is in love with the noisy TD5 ninety she has as her daily drive. She is in love with the thing. Very hard choice which is/was best, I still love my old 300TDI and series 1, 2 ,2a, but my Puma SVX is for keeps.:D:D:D:D

Allan

[Moon.dog62]

I just purchased a 93 200tdi tray back and I'm loving it especially the fuel economy. I have previously had land cruisers which were great but I'm really enjoying the coil sprung suspension over the leafs in the cruiser. Haven't had it off road yet but I think I might take it out for a run this weekend.