Air Suspension playing up

[Robgw]

Any idea's on this?

When I bought the D2 6 months ago, now and then the passenger side rear would drop over 2-3 days to the bump stop. Never both sides.

When the system was inspected no leaks or faults were found. Last week I decided to have have it checked again and this time the LR specialist found a minor leak in the air spring which have been very slow. I have had a new bag fitted and they gave me the old back as a spare as at lease I know it would last me a few days if I had problems.

The Disco has been parked up for 2 days and yet again has started dropping on the passenger side. They said all the lines and the compressor is fine. New bag too, so why is this side slowly deflating again?:confused:

[trevor]

Doesn't seem right really. My advice would be to take it back to the fitter before you attempt anything as it may be possible to blame you for the fault and thus not have to fix without charge. I'm surprised both weren't replaced; they last about 10years roughly snd for the cost in replacing (provided its not supplied my LR) isn't too much for piece of mind. There isn't too much mechanics in the air setup so lines, bags, compressor are usually your main culprits (bags 99% of the time). Perhaps a faulty sensor and the computer reads that for some reason the passengers side is too high so it deflates it?? Did the LR specialist use a diagnostic tool to assist in finding the issue?
I'm not the expert in these things but have replaced and added spacers to my own for a 2"lift and hopefully someone will be able to provide some more insight.

[Robgw]

Thanks Trevor. I guess the right thing is to sent it back to the Specialist. They are very good and honest so I do trust them. Both bags were replaced about 3 years ago so they were also surprised there was a leak after 3 years.

Not sure if they used a Diagnostic tool. Sensor could be the next idea!

The compressor is fine. The right rear has stayed up and solid for 6 months

[trevor]

Also keep in mind if it turns out to be a costly fix you always have the option of ridding the air suspension altogether. I and many others prefer the air bags but it's personal preference really, the main argument people have for the change is the possibility of failure in remote areas though anything maintained is less likely to fail anyways. Just some food for thought but theres no reason to get worried just yet, perhaps the computer just needs a lesson :p, after +6 months maybe it's confused itself?

[dolphinberserk]

The D2 (1999 Td5) I just bought for my wife has very similar symptoms to yours Robgw. Receipts from the PO are for one new air spring but the sag seems to happen on both sides. (Could this be due to a clever passive compensatory mechanism between the airbags to prevent the truck sitting extremely lopsided if/when one air spring fails?) It pumps well but I have nothing to compare it to. A soapwater test in offroad mode (learned here at Aulro thank you :) ) left me none the wiser, not a bubble in sight, but there were areas I could not see as it was just snaking around under the unraised car. Could it be the lines? Where would we buy new lines and get a t-juction and valve for external compression intake (as suggested on another thread)?

[Panya]

I'd put money on the unchanged bag. Pump up bags to offroad mode leave overnight and see if the car sags. Sometimes the leak is in the upper fold of the bag. Changing where the fold lies (by increasing height) sometimes closes the leak...

[strangy]

Hi mate, was the bag genuine? Arnott bags were a popular replacement for a while until the realisation they were rubbish and leaked almost straight away.

Cheers

[rover-56]

The BCU tries to keep the car level, if it thinks there is a leak on one side it will keep lowering the other side. Like Panya said, have a close look at the other bag.
There is nothing wrong with Arnotts bags BTW, I have had a pair on for 170k Km, all ok and I carry 200Kg of tools everywhere.

Cheers,
Terry

[alpick]

Hey Rover,
Dont you mean there is nothing wrong with YOUR ARnotts bags!

The pair I bought were rubbish!

[Robgw]

Thanks all, I will check the other bag. The new bag is Dunlop.

The wife is going to go ape if this car cost $$$ again.. :-(

[alpick]

better buy some bananas

[Robgw]

Think I may be a step closer. Before it goes back to the shop I've checked all the hoses and bags again and again no leaks.

However, the outer Union screw (for left bag) on the Air Valve/Compressor is loose. It seems cross threaded as it wont tighten. Turn it to clockwise or anticlockwise 90 degree's air starts hissing out.

[stevo68]

Thanks all, I will check the other bag. The new bag is Dunlop.

The wife is going to go ape if this car cost $$$ again.. :-( Just follow my lead when it comes to the missus complaining about costs ( Smokey has cost me over $3k in the last 6 weeks). When she starts....stick fingers in ears.....and yell out blah blah blah followed by a raspberry and then a "whatever".....calmly turn on heel......................................and run :twisted:. She is then so ****ed off at the belligerance that she forgets about the $$$. 2 weeks on a not a peep ;)

Regards

Stevo

[strangy]

There is nothing wrong with Arnotts bags BTW, I have had a pair on for 170k Km, all ok and I carry 200Kg of tools everywhere.

Cheers,
Terry

Good to hear you are happy with them.
You will never convince me otherwise.
Six brand new bags (3 sets) for me from Arnott and all leaked immediately, from useless assembly process and matching quality control. The 3rd and 4th sets had apparently been personally checked and tested by the "Manager".
The 4th set sent to me were never fitted and went in the bin, friends likewise.
Mates Navara helper bags the same. Many others here with the same story and some with catastrophic failure.

I will never touch their stuff again.

cheers

[strangy]

Think I may be a step closer. Before it goes back to the shop I've checked all the hoses and bags again and again no leaks.

However, the outer Union screw (for left bag) on the Air Valve/Compressor is loose. It seems cross threaded as it wont tighten. Turn it to clockwise or anticlockwise 90 degree's air starts hissing out.

Sounds like you found the problem.

cheers

[Robgw]

Now what to use to seal the thread?.. PTFE tape like a gas engineer would use or some threadlock?

[rover-56]

"Dont you mean there is nothing wrong with YOUR ARnotts bags!"

OK, fair enough.
Maybe they have quality control problems.

There were very specific installation instructions for the bags, something about lowering the car before pressurising, I think it was.

Maybe I got lucky.

Terry

[trevor]

I've had arnotts on since sep 2011 and haven't had any issues (knock on wood). I followed the instructions to the letter as they were pretty specific. They've had about 20k on them but not any 4wding. I like the look of them compared to oem; I don't know something about the weaves on the LR ones put me off. After I changed them I saw some horror storied about them and was fairly worried; they do offer lifetime guaranties which sold me. Anyways long story short I am also happy with mine to date :)

[strangy]

Now what to use to seal the thread?.. PTFE tape like a gas engineer would use or some threadlock?

These fittings seal using an "olive" compression type fitting. This means the thread is retaining / compression mechanism rather than the sealing mechanism (as in some general plumbing fittings). This means that any attempt to repair without replacing the threaded fitting will likely fail. I would be trying the mechanic first to cover the damage.

Cheers

[Robgw]

Hi Strangy,

Thanks for that tip. Not sure I can go after the mechanic. I strongly suspect this was overtightened last time the repair was done in 2009. The mechanic said that the leak tested the valve at the compressor and it was OK.

They deflated using the computer and removed the bag at the one end only they even gave me the old valve nut back with the old bag. I have sprayed the nut and no bubbles. Lunchtime I unscrewed it totally and let all the air out, cleaned the valve and thread and carefully screwed it back in. It went back in nice and straight and tightened up OK until it stopped. No bubbles or hissing when it pumped back up.

Started her up and she raised up OK. Did the School run/shops and back. Still up now at 10:30pm. Fingers crossed and let's see what it's doing when I awake tomorrow!.

[strangy]

Great. Hope you have had a win.

Cheers

[Robgw]

Not such a win... Went out this morning, half way down again!

Second car for the family so have to rely on my Nissan X-Trail in the week.!

Called the LR Guys today, (Aryes Auto Brookvale) and they do sound really dissapointed it's not working. One think i noticed today is that the Valve Block on the compressor is making a quiet ticking noise...The saga continues,,,

[northiam]

Replace the air bags with coil springs, end of story...:o

[Robgw]

Whats the ride like on coils?

In never towing..

[rover-56]

One think i noticed today is that the Valve Block on the compressor is making a quiet ticking noise...The saga continues,,,

My valve block has always made that ticking noise, I think it is normal....

Terry

[alpick]

The valve block on my compressor also makes that quiet ticking noise-all the time.

No one on here could explain it.

To back other comments already made.

Advice here is to fit new bags as a pair as the second one leaking won't be far behind the first.

The last leak I had in my SLS was after fitting new dunlops there was a super slow leak at one of the line inputs on the bag.

So slow I had to sit and wait for over 2 minutes to see the bubble slowly form.

But it was still enough to see the car on it's haunches in the morning.

Look very very hard at the line into the replaced bag, put the car in off road mode and load it up with stuff, jack it up even and let the bags hyper extend to expose the folds. 99.9% of leaks are bag problems.

[Robgw]

Thanks guys. The LR guys are saying a new Compressor which is $1220 fitted!

Last night I went out and the Valve block was silent. I stood on the rear step of the car and went back to the Valve block to find it ticking. LR guys think it needs replacing as whole unit.

However, if you guys are saying its normal? It must be the line then? I will check the line when I can. They did say that they had checked it but it's still just as dusty, so i thought it would be clean where they tested with water?

On the other hand my family are really fed up with me spending so much cash on it and want me to sell it! :-(

Is it fair to say with a 2001 Disco it's only a matter of time before something else just goes??

[northiam]

$300 abouts will buy a coil spring conversion kit. Pull the fuse on the sls compressor done. The ride with coils is no different. If you are doing a lot of heavy towing maybe stick with the sls.

[John W]

Not much more than $300 will get you a new pump and valve block delivered to your door from the UK. Very easy to fit yourself. That said, it is not your pump. Symptoms of a stuffed pump are; slow or impossible to raise to off road height, not a slow settling down. It could be a dodgy valve block. You should be able to detect air leaking from the valve block. In the situation I find myself without a functional pump, I have a couple of truck tyre valve stems that I can attach to the air lines in place of the pump and do a manual inflation. At least bypassing the pump would tell you if it is the bags or pump end.

[Robgw]

Im now leaning towards coils! I can keep the SLS kit and if i want switch back. Plus i guess peace of mind when in the bush!

I've just had all the breaks done. New Head and Valley Gasket's. Car is tip top no leaks and only 80k on the clock. Hopefully with more reliable suspension, i can get on with some trouble free motoring...

Shame to have just spent $420 on a new bag...

So you recon no more than $500 - $600 'fitted' to Convert?

[northiam]

Theres not many cheap fix short cuts we get with a D2, sls to coils is certainly one. Phone around for fitting costs plenty places in Sydney.

My airbags were removed but all the sls gear remains on the car and can be reinstated if required.

[lewy]

its not your pump but i fitted a new pump last week from england for this delivered to darwin.comes as a complete unit including new valves.20 minute job.last year i fitted two new air springs from the same mob.currant cost is $186 for 2.total $646 for new compressor and 2 airbags and 2 hours ish work in the carport.the bits i replaced looked as if they had been there from new [03 model].horses for courses i do a bit of towing so like the airbags and the self levelling.

1 x Air Suspension Pump RQG100041 (RQG100041) = £225.00
Sub-Total: £225.00
Shipping Charge 60.00 applied: £60.00
Worldwide Shipping (As per quotation): £0.00
Total: £285.00 =$460 au

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Bloody coil philisteins!
secure axel AND body heights,
release both lines from pump and bags, run new external lines to bags, inflate bags as per instructions.
go to sleep.
all will be revealed in the morning.

cost?
maybe $20,,,

[alpick]

Hey pedro, who is
Axel:D

[Pedro_The_Swift]

http://koriokennels.com/dogs/Axel2006web.jpg

[Robgw]

I went back at the garage today to challenge them, as they said on their invoice "all repaired and no leaks, 12 month warranty on parts and labour".

I said, so now your telling me 5 days later a compressor for $1200? why did you not tell me Bag and Compressor last week? Faced with a bill for $1600+ I would have got my Dad (mechanic) to post me the stuff from Birmingham (Land Rovers Home) .....or go to coils.

They said fair enough they should have been more careful.

They have offered to refund the part cost and labour and I can pay the difference to go to coils for $200. Or if I get them a cheaper compressor they will fit it free. I need the car next week for holiday!

Im going to go down the coils route and dad can bring me over a compressor/bags and some lines from England cheap next year .....if I want to go back to SLS.

Hopefully get the wife of my back on repair bills too..

My dad and I did the following back in March

Head Gaskets - (leak was from actually from the Valley Gasket on close inspection. Heads were ok but we had gone that far already and dad had the bolts and gaskets in his suitcase!)

Valley Gasket

New Air Mass Meter

Throttle Body Bypass

New Plugs and leads

Rad Flush

Brakes all pads and rotors

Headlining (no sunroofs)

Tyres - BF Goodrich AT

Serpentine Belt no ACE

Only 80k on the clock and it's a very tidy car. Im really hoping I can just drive it around and face no more bills! Else it's curtains for the Disco! I really love my Landy, but the family don't like the money it's cost..

Really hoping for plain sailing now..

Thanks for all your advice guys!

[Robgw]

Been on the medium duty coils with one inch lift for a few weeks now including a trip fully loaded to the Southern Highland NSW.

Car feels no different so far and handled superb down the Swallow Tail Pass 4x4 track...:)

[turps]

I realise you have changed to coils. But another idea would be to disconnect the LR air system and just put a shrader valve on a short bit of air line. Fill up to required pressure. That would atleast isolate the valve block and any other non-return valve.

[discoberry]

its not your pump but i fitted a new pump last week from england for this delivered to darwin.comes as a complete unit including new valves.20 minute job.last year i fitted two new air springs from the same mob.currant cost is $186 for 2.total $646 for new compressor and 2 airbags and 2 hours ish work in the carport.the bits i replaced looked as if they had been there from new [03 model].horses for courses i do a bit of towing so like the airbags and the self levelling.

1 x Air Suspension Pump RQG100041 (RQG100041) = £225.00
Sub-Total: £225.00
Shipping Charge 60.00 applied: £60.00
Worldwide Shipping (As per quotation): £0.00
Total: £285.00 =$460 au

Hey Lewy, who do you deal with in UK for those parts please?

[lewy]

Air Suspension Parts - Island 4x4 - Specialists in Land Rover and Range Rover Parts and accessories for all models. UK and worldwide mail order. (http://www.island-4x4.co.uk/suspension-suspension-parts-c-18_71_2577.html)