Ashcroft atb

[TD50WA]

Anyone got the Ashcroft atb diffs fitted to their D2. How does it go with TC. How does this setup compare to electric/air lockers?
Cheers
Kev
99td5

[justinc]

Anyone got the Ashcroft atb diffs fitted to their D2. How does it go with TC. How does this setup compare to electric/air lockers?
Cheers
Kev
99td5

Kev, Only can comment on twin trutracks fitted to a D2 with TC, unstoppable. The Ashcroft ATB operates in a similar fashion so same or better results will be had!

JC

[RedTD5]

Hi i have fitted the ATB to my rear diff, works amazing very tight the only time it soesn't work is if the wheel goes into the air nd the the t/c takes care of that and gets it moving both wheels again

[TD50WA]

Thanks for the replies guys, and at the risk of starting an argument, and I hope it doesn't, are you happy with the style of diffs, would you get full lockers given the choice, or are these just as good in your opinion.
If not, where do you think, or find that full lockers would be advantageous?

Sorry about all the questions, but I have driven mostly other brands, both with and without lockers, none with this style of diff, but this is my first D2 with TC.

Cheers
Kev

[justinc]

Kev, I think that a TC equipped vehicle really benefits from the ATB differential, more so than without TC as the application of the brake to the freespinning wheel turns the ATB into a virtual locker. It is also a lot kinder on axles and CV's, so IMO I would go ATB over airlocker etc.

Non TC equipped vehicle I would pick one or the other depending on your perceived use of the vehicle. Lockers (Which will usually require and axle upgrade too) for more extreme stuff, ATB (Which can be installed with no other mods or strengthening required) for allround duties, including extreme if used in conjunction with beadlocks, low pressures and crawler gears etc.

JC

[goingbush]

In a previous car (v8 90) I had vacuum operated Maxidrives front & rear,
in my current Td5 110 Defender with Traction Control I have installed Eaton (Detroit) TrueTrac front & rear ( rear is a Salisbury)

Dont confuse the TrueTracs with Detroit Locker they are in no way similar.

For the purposes of your topic Ashcroft ATB are the same as a TrueTrac, they are a Torsen style LSD ( Qualfe LSD is the same too) I am calling them TrueTrac

Alone TrueTracs are very good but combined with Traction Control they are brilliant.

If my opinion means anything (30+ years of Landrovering & (Toyota-erring) for my style of 4WDing the dual TrueTrac & Traction Control far outshines the selectable difflocks.

Now before the I thought the 110 with TC was good, actually better at climbing than the 90 was with difflocks, but when I go out to find a section that really tests the traction control like an open culvert that I drive across at 45 diagonal two opposing wheels leave the ground & the car sits balancing
the traction control would kick in & take a few seconds to realise the problem & 'grind' its way through the obstacle, & you could not reverse back
as the TC wont work in reverse.

Now with the TrueTracs installed I can park on the obstacle & go forwards & or backwards, The TC light dosent even come on.

The biggest test I found was a slippery clay hill with water running down the left side rut. Going up the TC light was on the whole way but I do not hear the ABS pump or the chattering like before, Going up in reverse was impossible before , But now If I gently hold my left foot on the brake to slow the spinning wheels in the rut the TrueTrac transfers torque to the other side & up she goes. ( thats the only time full diff locks will be better)

OK why else do I think the Truetrac are so good

1 they are gentle on axles, you do not have to get HD axles & CV's like with a diff lock
2 they are always ready to go & you dont have to think you might get stuck & conciously engage anything
3 much less back lash - infact apart from the .2 mm CW&P backlash there is no slop in the diff at all , which means less wear & tear on the center diff
4 Cheap & easy to install
5 Much stronger than rover diffs

I could go on but you get the idea.

If you set on Ashcroft ATB's fair enough but I got the TrueTracs from Great Basin Rovers in Utah, they have a great $60US priority postage deal going,
worth an enquiry, nobody knows Landrover diffs like Bill at GBR does

Also be aware the front & rear are diferent so dont mix them up, they look the same.

[TD50WA]

Once again thanks for the great replies.

I was looking at full diff locks, but in my research saw the atb. I then chanced upon another post with a comment about the good feedback of this style with the TC.

I will have to seriously consider this option I think.
Cheers


Oh, if anyone has a negative response, feel free to jump in.

Kev

[justinc]

Once again thanks for the great replies.

I was looking at full diff locks, but in my research saw the atb. I then chanced upon another post with a comment about the good feedback of this style with the TC.

I will have to seriously consider this option I think.
Cheers


Oh, if anyone has a negative response, feel free to jump in.

Kev

only negatives i have heard (and experienced) is when they are fitted to the front, a bit of the loud pedal will steer you during a corner:eek:, and the use of left to right side uneven tyre diameters and / or different pressures will cause handling problems.

jc

[goingbush]

only negatives i have heard (and experienced) is when they are fitted to the front, a bit of the loud pedal will steer you during a corner:eek:, and the use of left to right side uneven tyre diameters and / or different pressures will cause handling problems.

jc

Yes I forgot about that, I found it a bit wierd at first but you get used to it after a day or so, power will help pull you out of a corner on the tarmac .
You can turn that into a plus because if one of your front tyres has a slow leak it will start pulling to that side after a differance of about 2psi, And then you know you have to fix that tyre before it becomes a problem.

[TD50WA]

only negatives i have heard (and experienced) is when they are fitted to the front, a bit of the loud pedal will steer you during a corner:eek:, and the use of left to right side uneven tyre diameters and / or different pressures will cause handling problems.

jc

Yep, had that issue of no turnee when needed!

As for the uneven tyres......not a wise move in any case let alone an all wheel drive (on road) ......

[gavinwibrow]

Kev, Only can comment on twin trutracks fitted to a D2 with TC, unstoppable. The Ashcroft ATB operates in a similar fashion so same or better results will be had!

JC
Hi Justin - do you concur the tru-trac (and presumably the Ashcroft ABT) system does not require any additional HD parts (D2a TD5 auto)?
I note Ashcrofts are out of stock at the moment and I have emailed Utah for indicative costs.

[goingbush]

Gavin,

While your at it get that TT price including a new set of Carrier Bearings, you will need them, they will be cheaper from GBR than anywhere in Aust & wont add to the postage. You will also need to specify 10 spline (pre 93) or 24 spline. Front or rear.

here is a clip from some email correspondence from Utah, I'm sure Bill wont mind me pasting it here

Truetracs are nice because they react faster than traction control so traction control comes on a lot less. As you noted there are some situations that traction control can be counterproductive such as situations that required momentum such as sand. Nothing like putting on the brakes in the middle of momentum!

In my opinion, upgraded axle shafts/CV joints are strictly optional when running Truetracs. First Land Rover axles and CV joints are not as bad as many people think. Second, since a TT is a limited slip they do not stress out axle shafts nearly as much as fully locking differentials and they bias torque in a very smooth and controlled manner unlike a hard ratcheting type of system. CV joints don't like shock loads so if you are a finesse driver and run TT's you won't have much problem with them. Another advantage of TT's especially in 2 pinion Rover diffs is they are massively more durable. The lifespan of a Rover diff with traction control engaged is between 30 minutes and 1 hour! The pulsing literally starts to dissolve the two spider gears. If you have used traction control a lot and want to do a quick check on the condition of your diff is to drain the gear oil and pay attention to the color when it first comes out. If it is silver as I describe it, this is your spider gears returning to their elemental state!

pic of Eaton TrueTrac vs rover from the front of my 04 td5 110

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[gavinwibrow]

Gavin,

While your at it get that TT price including a new set of Carrier Bearings, you will need them, they will be cheaper from GBR than anywhere in Aust & wont add to the postage. You will also need to specify 10 spline (pre 93) or 24 spline. Front or rear.

here is a clip from some email correspondence from Utah, I'm sure Bill wont mind me pasting it here


pic of Eaton TrueTrac vs rover from the front of my 04 td5 110

http://goingbush.com/landy/diff4.jpg
Many thanks. Given I'm a complete novice with the intricacies of LR transmissions what is the go with QUOTE 10 spline (pre 93) or 24 spline. Front or rear? UNQUOTE
I'm hoping to fit front and rear TT to my 04 D2a TD5 auto, but have no idea what my standard OE spline details are, or at this stage, even if they are relevant and/or how to find out. I would assume the splines have to mesh with the carriers, but after that I'm lost.
I saw the recommendation for new carrier bearings when I went to their site, so yes your re-inforcement was timely and appreciated.

[OffTrack]

Many thanks. Given I'm a complete novice with the intricacies of LR transmissions what is the go with QUOTE 10 spline (pre 93) or 24 spline. Front or rear? UNQUOTE
I'm hoping to fit front and rear TT to my 04 D2a TD5 auto, but have no idea what my standard OE spline details are, or at this stage, even if they are relevant and/or how to find out. I would assume the splines have to mesh with the carriers, but after that I'm lost.
I saw the recommendation for new carrier bearings when I went to their site, so yes your re-inforcement was timely and appreciated.

All D2's have 24 spline diffs. As goingbush said 10 spline are pre-1993 only.

The splines mesh with the inner ends of the driveshafts.

cheers
Paul

[biggin]

FYI
Truetrac front: TT912A407
Truetrac rear: TT912A383
Try Lucky8 in US also.

[dswatts]

Quite interested in the Tru-Trac's.
What are their negative points?
Thanks
Dylan

[Monkiefone]

Hi guys. I've got truetrac's front and rear. Not had the opportunity to test them yet but off to the lake districts here in the uk at the weekend. So should get a good testing there! One thing. I would suggest a rear prop shaft conversion to get rid of the rubber donut. Have the rear diff built with a 4 bolt flange and fit a 200tdi rear prop.

I find mine tracks better on the road as the diff is always wanting to drive straight. It has returned some of the return to centre ha I lost after the lift, 32's and updated steering damper.

[Gullible]

Quite interested in the Tru-Trac's.
What are their negative points?
Thanks
Dylan

As mentioned above, under-steer during hard acceleration around tight corners.

But it should be noted that this is the same under-steer you experience in front wheel drive vehicles. It takes about 10 min to get used to, if you switch between front and rear wheel drive vehicles regularly you'd probably notice it more.

[goingbush]

Quite interested in the Tru-Trac's.
What are their negative points?
Thanks
Dylan

Negative Points,

1 You will forever on cop a lot of flack from People that have fitted AirLockers , they need to justify that they needed to spend 3X the money & will let you know why theirs is better.

2 You dont have fancy "Air Locker" switches mounted in a prominent place so that people that see them can go ooo & ahhh , I also miss the cool sound the Maxidrive switches make when you engage their lockers

[TD50WA]

You could always stick a couple switches in your dash:D........if you miss them that much:p

[justinc]

You could always stick a couple switches in your dash:D........if you miss them that much:p

AND one of these to simulate the lock/ unlock of the airlocker:p

Akamoto – Fake Dump Valve – Dummy Blow Off Valve (http://www.akamoto.co.uk/dump-valve.asp)

:D:D:D:D:D:D

JC

[goingbush]

Fair Go :eek: I could get one of those for my wifes Holden Combo. :o

Like when I was in primary school and used to put the flappers on my bike spokes to make it sound like a motorbike

[TD50WA]

Now that's showing your age!!!!.....the problem is I remember doing that as well:p:p:p

[gavinwibrow]

Well thanks to advice from Samo, the Ashcroft ATB "lockers" are now back in stock. The landed price for ATB and Trutracs are not that far apart - SO (putting aside the cost) WHICH IS THE BETTER PRODUCT FOR MY D2a TD5 auto?

[beanie_205]

Interested in the topic, and wondering how difficult an installation of the trutracs would be? Obviously the prop shafts would come off, would the hubs and axles need to be removed as well? They sound great.

[biggin]

Interested in the topic, and wondering how difficult an installation of the trutracs would be? Obviously the prop shafts would come off, would the hubs and axles need to be removed as well? They sound great.

They're not too difficult to install with the correct instructions and a dial gauge.
The hubs/axles need to be withdrawn an inch or two.

[discoberry]

Just wanted to add to this thread that i'm in the process of ordering the Ashcroft ATB's front and back for my '99 V8 D2.
I have the CDL selector fitted.
Also changing to 4.12 R&P at the same time.
And I think that R&P is a little "under driven" with my 265/75/16's
But this car is only for play/touring, not a daily driver.
So hopefully, it should go very well.

[clubagreenie]

You won't need gears, I'm running same and its fine.

Fitted my ATB on Friday and after today, totally transformed the car. With the traction control effectively controlling it its the thinking persons locker. You can concentrate on the driving and not worry about if it should be on or off or if the axles & CV's will survive. Ordering a front one as soon as possible.

[TD50WA]

It's really good to see the results of the people brave enough to not get "real lockers".......:p

The TC seems to be the advantage with the atb. I think I'll be getting these too.

Thanks for the input guys....and keep us updated on your progress and opinions those who have, or are getting the atbs.

Cheers
Kev

[rosco114]

Another happy twin trutrack vehicle owner here. D2a with CDL trutracks and traction control. Front is only recently fitted - rear has been in a few months and tested. Rear is so good with TC I went ahead with the front.

[clubagreenie]

I'm also happy with the fitting service I used. Craft Diffs at Peel Street, Holroyd Sydney. $275- for strip and rebuild with new carrier bearings, reset pinion preload (bearings fine), replace doughnut flange with 4-bolt type and make spacer, lap and set backlash, fit new seal.

In their opinion the Ashcroft unit is the best made locker they have come across. Stronger they say than a Detroit (6 vs 4 gears), better finish on machining. He asked for their details as he wants to know if they'll do some custom on off work. I also asked about what oil they'd recommend. They always use Penrite 85-140 LSD oil, despite not requiring it, they run it in all types of diffs, open, soft, auto, mechanical, clutch & selectable. Stops issues with people using the wrong oil in the workshop and storing quantities of different stuff but primarily it copes better with higher temps & higher pressures.

After Sunday's outing, I'd agree it's quieter (as you can rtell under a V8 Disco. No clunking at all and can't tell when it's working or not. Apart from the TC light flashes far less and only momentarily when it activates and you start to move more with traction.

One happy camper.