What length front and rear shock

[Ausfender]

Hey guys,
I have a 3" flexi coil spring set going into my 110 bobtailed ute.
I am just wanting to know what length open and closed shocks to run.
I am running HD standard length front shock mounts
I have an eye to eye mounting kit on the rear also.
I am looking at running remote res shocks.
Again any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

[c.h.i.e.f]

im no guru on suspension slunnie,uninformed,bennyIIa,rick130 are the guys in the know but i think 80 series front shocks give an extra 2" travel so whatever that lenght is cross reference that over to the shock of your choice....as for rear i personally would go something with no less than 10" stroke if you have aftermarket components to allow more flex i would aim towards something with at least 12" as a minimum....then theres retaining,dislocation etc etc i am currently running 15.5" stroke front and rear but i extended the mounts up front and made adjustable rear mounts but as for front i would like to re-position the shock outside the spring... having said that i would prefer to run coils overs instead.

[Grimace]

Can you confirm that the shocks are 15.5" stroke? That's a lot on the front without extending the turrets a fair way!

Most rovers will cycle 10" shocks up front and 12" out back with minimal mods.

[c.h.i.e.f]

Can you confirm that the shocks are 15.5" stroke? That's a lot on the front without extending the turrets a fair way!

Most rovers will cycle 10" shocks up front and 12" out back with minimal mods.

Hey grimace
They are the largest adjustable ranchos available I extended the front turrets about 6" they max out just as the spring leaves its perch...I only got these for a make do thing until I get funds and time for coilovers..

[Ausfender]

Cheers for that c.h.i.e.f. I am running 2" extended rear trailing arms withmrose joints and custom A-frame set up on the rear. I do have a set of 2" extended HD shock turrets available in the shed but currently running the standard length.
I also have a set of 2" extended front radius arms using jonny box mounts instead of the rear bush which allow for more articulation. And rear dislocation cones and adjustable rear eye to eye mounts.

15.5 sounds rather reasonable and I should be able to get fox remote res shocks for the front of a GQ to fit on all four corners.

Ill give it a go and post what happens

[c.h.i.e.f]

I am very interested in seeing your plans!!! I noticed you live close to myself I wouldn't mind to meet up one day just to have a squiz at your setup if that don't bother you??
I am currently in the process of trying to figure out what to do with the rear end of my 110..when you made reference to 2" extended trailing arms are you just reffering to trailing arms to accommodate a 2" lift (cranked) or are they actually 2" longer ? Personally I would like to run longer rear arms or a triangulated rear and front (much discussion on this guys that know are uninformed and bush65) but doing this would mean cutting chassis etc etc
I was considering going rose jointed trailing arms but then it won't be road legal :( I have been investigating Johnny joints which should be ok but my greatest concern is being legal and not dangerous to others...

Any pics of your rear end :wasntme::angel: would be great ...

[Slunnie]

Unless someone has fitted them there are a lot of variables.

If you have the data on your current springs and shocks, you can probably calculate the shock length for the new springs by comparing spring free lengths and adjusting the shock open length by the difference if that makes sense. The arcs of the suspension are a variable, but I wouldn't get too excited about that and I'd aim to keep the spring captive by about 10-15mm or similar unless you plan on retaining. This keeps the spring in and unloads most of the energy out of the spring when full travel is reached to help preserve the shock. The closed length will be determined by the shock design and some are better at this than others. If you were looking at remote canisters then these are about as good as it gets when comparing open lengths to travel.

When you've done this you will need to compare the closed length of the new shocks to that of standard shocks and extend the bumpstops by the difference - this is to prevent damage from bottoming the shock.

If you plan on altering the shock turrets to suit and maintaining the bumpstops then you would use shocks that travel by the same amount or more than what the spring will allow the suspension to travel assuming that you can contact the bumptop (NB, you probably cant replicate full compression statically) and then extend the turret so that it again keeps the spring captive by about 10-15mm - you will also need to know the base measurements of your suspension to calculate this.

[c.h.i.e.f]

what slunnie said :D
i done the last option but without calculations i potted it almost on the mark on the front which will be fine for now...as slunnie and myself have discussed before about dislocation or retaining i am considering dislocating the rear and retaining the front there are some reasons 1.as previously mentioned shock is inside spring which makes mods a tad more difficult 2.retaining in my opinion will give a better feel and more controllable along with preserving shock life......there will be no point in me going coilovers without re-designing everything to accommodate the flex mainly the front end for that matter...once i get to this stage i think it will be safer and easier to just go stupid and make it a strictly offroad vehicle...

sorry if this has gone off track a tad but this section needs some more discussion:D

[Slunnie]

I forgot to mention the obvious.

If you cant calculate these for whatever reason (eg lack of data), then install the springs, lift the vehicle on the springs until the springs are only just compressed by 10-15mm and take a measurement. All manufacturers take the measurement from the centre of the eye, but this varies for the pins - check with the manufacturer of your choice there.

[Ausfender]

Thanks for that Slunnie. I'll have a go at doing what you outlined and see how I get on.
c.h.i.e.f I actually live in Singleton at the moment so not to far away. Wouldn't mind catching up at some stage to talk tech and let you look at the rear end of my defender.

The reason I wanted to run the remote res setup was for the extra that they allow.

Thanks to all for the input. Greatly appreciated

[LowRanger]

As Simon mentioned,the best way to work out your shock lengths is to cycle your suspension through its full range of motion,this can be difficult in a static state,but is achievable.You then need to measure the distances from your prfered type of mounting point,paying special attention to the closed length required.
You can have very long shocks,but the drawback to most of these is that they have a large closed length,and therefore inhibit UP travel,unless you alter the mounting points.And with the standard L/R suspension setup,you can maximise the available travel on the front with much less extreme length shocks.
I run 3" springs in my 110 and am able to maximise the available travel in the front end, by raising the front turrets 2" and running longer shocks.In the rear I have 3" longer springs and the same shocks as in the front,and modified upper shock mounts.I find this setup allows the vehicle to be very stable offroad whilst allowing all the wheel travel that I require,and I do tend to wheel hard.
I am a believer in having the springs retained F&R to maintain stability,so having huge length shocks on the rear is in my thoughts overkill with the standard Rover A frame and balljoint.But that is just my thought and everyone is entitled to their opinion on the matter,which has been discussed many times before.
If the vehicle is being built with these sort of specs,I am assuming that it is being used as a hardcore weekend wheeler,and not a tourer or fast overland racer.And with that in mind,I find the use of remote reservoir shocks to be overkill,as slow cycling of the shocks,isn't going to get the shocks critically hot enough to reap the benefits of the remote reservoir.
What you will also find is that most of the long remote reservoir shocks are fairly large in diameter and will foul when run inside the front springs on a Rover front end,requiring modification to external mounting,and although not a big mod,it is just another thing that requires modification,for minimal gain.
All of these thoughts are in regards to keeping the vehicle roadworthy,if not being used on the road,it comes down to how deep your pockets are.

[c.h.i.e.f]

Thanks for that Slunnie. I'll have a go at doing what you outlined and see how I get on.
c.h.i.e.f I actually live in Singleton at the moment so not to far away. Wouldn't mind catching up at some stage to talk tech and let you look at the rear end of my defender.

The reason I wanted to run the remote res setup was for the extra that they allow.

Thanks to all for the input. Greatly appreciated

wow even better i work up there so am up there almost everyday...cant say i have noticed you driving it around though!

sorry forgot to mention lowranger he loves suspension talk :D sorry lowranger haha

if you are willing to spend the money on remote resivors like i was about go ahead i personally love the bilstein 7100series but as already mentioned they benefit more in higher speed scenarios where shocks are prone to "fade" due to high cycling rates...i was going to buy some 7100's but then told myself i do not need them at the moment and keep steering towards coilovers :angel:

with the suspension design i am struggeling to come up with ideas/designs that will be road registerable :( bush65 posted up some good explinations to suspension design which helped me get my head around the reasoning behind everything...

[LowRanger]

wow even better i work up there so am up there almost everyday...cant say i have noticed you driving it around though!

sorry forgot to mention lowranger he loves suspension talk :D sorry lowranger haha

if you are willing to spend the money on remote resivors like i was about go ahead i personally love the bilstein 7100series but as already mentioned they benefit more in higher speed scenarios where shocks are prone to "fade" due to high cycling rates...i was going to buy some 7100's but then told myself i do not need them at the moment and keep steering towards coilovers :angel:

with the suspension design i am struggeling to come up with ideas/designs that will be road registerable :( bush65 posted up some good explinations to suspension design which helped me get my head around the reasoning behind everything...
c.h.i.e.f The hardest part is settling on a solution that going to be road legal and still give good articulation.It is very difficult to make a multi purpose vehicle,that does everything very well.Because every time you make a compromise one way,it affects the vehicle in another.
I forgot to mention,if you are fitting bigger diameter wheels to a Defender,then it is quite easy for the tyres to hit the top of wheel wells,long before the axles hit the bumpstops,so this needs to be taken into account as well,when setting your suspension up.

[isuzutoo-eh]

Wayne are your bump stop extensions to stop your tyres hitting the wheel well or due to shock body length? The extensions are 1" longer than standard, correct?

[c.h.i.e.f]

Wayne are your bump stop extensions to stop your tyres hitting the wheel well or due to shock body length? The extensions are 1" longer than standard, correct?

God forbid if us Isuzu owners need to extend our bumpstops we may as well get rid of up travel all together :D

[LowRanger]

Wayne are your bump stop extensions to stop your tyres hitting the wheel well or due to shock body length? The extensions are 1" longer than standard, correct?

My rear bump stops are to allow maximum up travel with the modified rear mounts,and still just have clearance for my 35's under the rear wheel well


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[LowRanger]

Wayne are your bump stop extensions to stop your tyres hitting the wheel well or due to shock body length? The extensions are 1" longer than standard, correct?

And you more than most,would know how well my suspension works now


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[c.h.i.e.f]

And you more than most,would know how well my suspension works now


Sent from my Truck using Electrickery

Got any snap shots ??

[LowRanger]

Got any snap shots ??

Do you want shots of the suspension working,or of the suspension?
There are a heap of photos and videos in the NSW trip section of my vehicle working its suspension



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[isuzutoo-eh]

And you more than most,would know how well my suspension works now


Sent from my Truck using Electrickery

Yeah, I know it works, that's why i'm copying bits of it :p
Did you extend your front bump stops or just rears? As Chief implied, Isuzu owners already have extended front bump stops, I don't want to extend further as i'm going for a lower ride height to you. I reckon your shocks would work well for mine all the same. Unless they need extended front bumpstops of more than an inch...


I can't find much in the way of flexi pics of Wayne's truck, he never stops long enough to take poser shots ;)
But Wayne's set up does work very well.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/05/23.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/05/24.jpg

[LowRanger]

My front bump stops are standard height,their is just enough room to stuff my 35's into the front wheel well,and just have clearance with the top of the inner guard.
I still think you need a spring that is long enough in the front,so that it doesn't dislocate,and then pick the rate as required.
Unfortunately the big tyres fill the wheel arches so well that it gives the impression of not much travel


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[isuzutoo-eh]

My front bump stops are standard height,their is just enough room to stuff my 35's into the front wheel well,and just have clearance with the top of the inner guard.
I still think you need a spring that is long enough in the front,so that it doesn't dislocate,and then pick the rate as required.
Unfortunately the big tyres fill the wheel arches so well that it gives the impression of not much travel


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For the moment I am going to get shocks and fit the new mounts, then worry about springs further down the line once I've sorted the front end weights out. I usually lie to myself about these springs, they work reasonably well, it's the short shocks that are the biggest let down.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/05/21.jpg

[c.h.i.e.f]

Thats a nice jigger Wayne has there !!!
I wouldn't mind to see as many shots of outside and underneath as possible just to get the full jist of everything going on with the setup...

[LowRanger]

For the moment I am going to get shocks and fit the new mounts, then worry about springs further down the line once I've sorted the front end weights out. I usually lie to myself about these springs, they work reasonably well, it's the short shocks that are the biggest let down.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/05/21.jpg

Well as you have the same mounts as me,to fit,you know my thoughts on the shocks.You just don't want the front springs to dislocate,as this will lead to instability,particularly going down hill,if the front wheel drops into a hole


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[LowRanger]

Thats a nice jigger Wayne has there !!!
I wouldn't mind to see as many shots of outside and underneath as possible just to get the full jist of everything going on with the setup...

I will see if I can find any shots of the suspension working.I don't have any of underneath in its current guise .I think one of the best things I did,was to replace the Dobinsons flexi coils.
As far as the truck goes,it is just an old 200tdi with a lot of good mods done to it.My wife says it is just like me,old and a bit rough,but still going strong.


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[Ausfender]

Cheers for all the tech on the suspension LowRanger.

Out of curiosity what type of rear shock mounts are you running?
I have retained the springs at the front, however in the rear I am running dislocation cones which run a hook on the bottom to catch the last coil of the spring so that it doesn't completely leave the cone when articulating.

I have looked at ways to mount the front shock outside of the spring but have not really come up with something that I like so far. Any ideas would be appreciated.

c.h.i.e.f my ute is currently in my shed with the motor out of it. I am putting a new crank in the 300tdi and while it's out making a custom tuned length steam pipe manifold with t2 flange and a new t25 turbo. Just to get the pulse right and tuned.

Tried to convince the old man to let me have the Isuzu motor out of the 130 in the shed but he has a pipe dream of getting it going again after he destroyed the gear box.. Hmmm I'll work on him :angel:

[isuzutoo-eh]

Ausfender you have the same relocation cones as Wayne uses and I have but haven't installed. Clever kit. The upper shock mounts are Gwyn's 3 position +2" pin mounts.

[LowRanger]

As Mark mentioned,I have the Gwyn Lewis rear mounts and dislocation cones,I also have Gwyns front towers,but no need to retain the front,as my springs are long enough to not dislocate,even at maximum extension.
There used to be a few companies making different front shock locator kits,but most are no longer around.
My towers are offset,so that my shocks don't rub on the spring anywhere during the front suspension cycling.And the suspension has had a hard time,with no signs of rubbing.

[c.h.i.e.f]

Cheers for all the tech on the suspension LowRanger.

Out of curiosity what type of rear shock mounts are you running?
I have retained the springs at the front, however in the rear I am running dislocation cones which run a hook on the bottom to catch the last coil of the spring so that it doesn't completely leave the cone when articulating.

I have looked at ways to mount the front shock outside of the spring but have not really come up with something that I like so far. Any ideas would be appreciated.

c.h.i.e.f my ute is currently in my shed with the motor out of it. I am putting a new crank in the 300tdi and while it's out making a custom tuned length steam pipe manifold with t2 flange and a new t25 turbo. Just to get the pulse right and tuned.

Tried to convince the old man to let me have the Isuzu motor out of the 130 in the shed but he has a pipe dream of getting it going again after he destroyed the gear box.. Hmmm I'll work on him :angel:
Sounds good....I highly reccomend trying to get hold of the Isuzu and spending the time and money on it such as turbo etc etc it will be awesome to have a 110 ute with Isuzu close to where I live :) it also takes much less to get twice as much power as the 300tdi have I convinced you yet ? :D

Lowranger max points for your call in regards to yourself/car hahaha