Outlet valve

[Anders D]

I’ve been struggling with a problem for a while. Instruments are throwing the classic Three Amigos for some weeks now.
Hooking up my Ewo I read:
07-06 Right outlet valve short to internal….

I had wheel bearings changed two month ago on rear right side. Just fine for a while but now Three Amigos are permanent.

I’m I missing something here?

[Anders D]

Anyone? I'ts a Td5 2003 but thats obvious! :)

[OffTrack]

The fault code indicates it's a short in the modulator.

Check the wiring for the right rear and front outlet valve wiring valve back to the slabs ecu. You need to refer to RAVE/ Wiring Diagrams and Electrical Library for pin outs etc. If you are lucky it might be simply harness damage.

If it's not, you are most likely looking at a new modulator.

[Anders D]

Thanks Offtrac! :)

[clubagreenie]

There's a couple of quick fixes that are much cheaper than a new modulator, search for "option B". Option A is the (harder) alternative.Opt B is a bypass of the wiring on the underside of the modulator that shorts out when the modulator switch seals fail (the switch unit is pretty cheap and should also be replaced at this time).

[alpick]

Club,
R U sure that's right for Anders error code indication? Option B is for "intermittent shuttle valve faults" I thought.

Edited from falcon works website

More info on Disco 2 "three-amigos":* It literally means the ABS, Traction Control, and Hill Decent warning lights all come on at the same time, sometimes followed by the red "brake" light.* This only happens when a fault occurs which is common to all three systems.*

Problem could be.
Wet Shuttle Valve Switches are one of the most common causes.*

Or could be ( and most likely),
There is another tres-amigos cause to test for (or preemptively re-solder, as we do),
There is a circuit board, within the modulator between the shuttle valve switches themselves, and the main harness connector to the modulator.* If intermittent*through the modulator board, The poor connection is generally a cracked solder-joint on the board in the solenoid block, and it must be located and repaired.* (OPTION B)Alternatively*the whole block can be replaced (Land Rover SWO500040, per TSB LTB00060), as so many are doing these days, with their blinders on,*ignoring the obvious brake fluid leaks.* Find a very good explanation here, of how to repair or bypass the old part, noting that the solder joints at the other end of the SVS proboscus also fail ... and can also be repaired.* Wheel speed sensors are common to the amigos too.* Again, our kit will not repair the circuit board or speed sensors: it only addresses the normal and most common problem causing the three amber warning lights.


So a 3 amigos of "intermittent shuttle valve fault" could be either the solder of the circuit board or wet switches.

But Anders error is not indicating the above.


Let's follow the logic in Anders prob.

Right rear wheel bearings changed. Problem pops up! Check the bits that were fiddled with!

Offtrack is on the right track I reckon.

[OffTrack]

There's a couple of quick fixes that are much cheaper than a new modulator, search for "option B". Option A is the (harder) alternative.Opt B is a bypass of the wiring on the underside of the modulator that shorts out when the modulator switch seals fail (the switch unit is pretty cheap and should also be replaced at this time).

As Al say, the fault Anders is reporting has absolutely nothing to do with the SVS switch or the connection that Option B by passes.

47456

The section in the purple box is the SVS portion of the Modulator. Option B bypasses a faulty connector between these switches and the main wiring harness connector. The fault Anders is getting relates to the rear outlet solenoids which are shown in the red boxes. Each of the solenoids is directly controlled by the SLABS ECU, and has no direct interaction with the SVS.

If there was an issue with the SVS or the portion of the modulator block that is bypassed by Option B Anders would be seeing SVS related fault codes.

The modulator repair kit mentioned in the Falconworks page - SWO500040 - is described in LTB0060 as the ABS modulator solenoid pack, and appears to contain the internal wiring and solenoids for the inlet and outlet valves as well as the SVS connector. If the fault is shown not to be in the external harness, this would be a far more economical fix than replacing the entire modulator.

The falconworks comments re leaks from the seals is on the money. I've recently read codes for a member who has done the Option B mod, but is suffering the Amigos again. He mentioned that when he originally changed the SVS as part of the Option B job there was brake fluid on the switches. In this yet another case where Option B does nothing to solve the problem, but the fact that the faulty SVS module was replaced and (temporarily) solved the 3 Amigos is credited to the miraculous curative properties of Option B.

cheers
Paul

[clubagreenie]

Apologies all round.

I was merely working on the description, shuttle valve fault. Which is usually a seal leak with fluid getting under the bellows like rubbers and shorting the switches. Opt A is to fix the broken solder joint inside the switch, sometimes exacerbated by corrosion caused by the fluid. Opt B is to bypass the broken joint.

So looking at the work done, was the rear abs line unplugged? If so could contaminates give a similar fault by shorting (a long shot given the design of the plug) or interrupting the signal at the rear end? Otherwise from memory of the images I've seen if the internals (haven't had mine split that far apart) the solenoids should also have seals given they control fluid movement, so could it be a seal on a solenoid valve/piston?

[Anders D]

Thanks guys!
Previous I’ve done the option B with an ongoing Three Amigos but without good result. :wallbash:
Then I left my Disco to a shop and they discovered worn bearing. Got the Disco back and drove for a good three weeks and then those hated Three Amigos were back. :woot:
I assume that the easiest way and where to start is to clean those ABS connectors. The wheel connection first and then the connection inside the modulator.
I'll be back!

[alpick]

Lycka till!

[Anders D]

Lycka till!

I need that!! :D

Tack!!

[OffTrack]

Thanks guys!
Previous I’ve done the option B with an ongoing Three Amigos but without good result. :wallbash:
Then I left my Disco to a shop and they discovered worn bearing. Got the Disco back and drove for a good three weeks and then those hated Three Amigos were back. :woot:
I assume that the easiest way and where to start is to clean those ABS connectors. The wheel connection first and then the connection inside the modulator.
I'll be back!

Best wait until a full moon, and make sure you wave a chickens foot over each sensor once you complete the ritual cleansing. You could also try burying your diagnostic tool in a cows horn filled with manure for a month. You'll get far better results that way. :p

Seriously - just check wiring from Modulator to SLABS ECU. You need to check the wiring on the pins relating to the outlet solenoids. Forget about the ABS sensors unless you are getting codes specifically relating to them.

[Anders D]

Best wait until a full moon, and make sure you wave a chickens foot over each sensor once you complete the ritual cleansing. You could also try burying your diagnostic tool in a cows horn filled with manure for a month. You'll get far better results that way. :p


Never turn down a good advice :D

Cheers :twobeers:

[chosenview]

Hi all. New to the party but with the same problems.

My investigations lead me to believe that my problem is in the ABS solenoid pack.

Al - you wrote the below (in bold). before I buy a replacement can you post the details of the solder fix. May as well try that first.

Paul - that ABS .jpg looks like it might be useful but I can't get it big enough to read. can you PM it?

Also does anyone know what the voltage used by the SLABS ecu output to solenoid is. It manages to energise enough to pull back the plunger so can't be that small??? thought I might be able to mimic it and hear the plunger??

Regards

Steve





Or could be ( and most likely),
There is another tres-amigos cause to test for (or preemptively re-solder, as we do),
There is a circuit board, within the modulator between the shuttle valve switches themselves, and the main harness connector to the modulator.* If intermittent*through the modulator board, The poor connection is generally a cracked solder-joint on the board in the solenoid block, and it must be located and repaired.* (OPTION :cool:Alternatively*the whole block can be replaced (Land Rover SWO500040, per TSB LTB00060), as so many are doing these days, with their blinders on,*ignoring the obvious brake fluid leaks.* Find a very good explanation here, of how to repair or bypass the old part, noting that the solder joints at the other end of the SVS proboscus also fail ... and can also be repaired.* Wheel speed sensors are common to the amigos too.* Again, our kit will not repair the circuit board or speed sensors: it only addresses the normal and most common problem causing the three amber warning lights.

[OffTrack]

You need to get yourself a copy of RAVE. The image is taken from the ABS Description and Operation section which is probably the best reference for the D2 abs system.

You can also find good information covering the WABCO Type-D abs system from which the SLABS ECU is developed on the WABCO web site.

Cheers
Paul

[alpick]

Chosen view,

The text of mine you quoted is from the falcon works website tech info on the Abs problems.

They go on to refer readers to the virgin islands website which is probably the reference site for the problems and fixes. Take note of the problems encountered in trying to fix the cracked solder problem by re soldering.

http://www.landroverclubvi.com/abs-mod.html


Check it out, great pics and answers.

[chosenview]

Ahh. I misunderstood. I have already done Option B. I thought the text refered to a circuit board inside the modulator block.

I'm still looking for a way to test the operation of the relays, my skills are not good enough to work it out. Should a continuity test work? it does not seem to

Steve

[OffTrack]

Ahh. I misunderstood. I have already done Option B. I thought the text refered to a circuit board inside the modulator block.

I'm still looking for a way to test the operation of the relays, my skills are not good enough to work it out. Should a continuity test work? it does not seem to

Steve


Option B bypasses a cracked solder joint on a circuit board which is part of the modulator block. This is what the quoted text is talking about.

RAVE has a pin out and wiring diagrams for the braking system. If can't manage to find yourself a copy, you can always support the forum and buy one from here (http://www.davesitshop.com/davesitshop/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=164)

As I suggested previously there is some information in the WABCO documentation.
Try the last page of this pdf:
www.meritorwabco.com/MeritorWABCO_document/mm29.pdf

[Anders D]

Hi all!

Thought that I should report back with the result!!
Changed the modulator: Still the hated Amigos grining at me :(
Changed the rear left bearing: Problem solved :BigThumb:

Cheers!!