D2 front recovery points???

[scarman]

Can any one tell me of different brands and where to get front recovery points for a D2. I have tryed to search this but no luck.

[gavinwibrow]

Can any one tell me of different brands and where to get front recovery points for a D2. I have tryed to search this but no luck.
There was a thread abot november last year extolling the virtue of swivel recovery points attached (higher) to the bumper/chassis - which made great sense, but I had already ordered under radiator ones from 4 x 4 Design (not cheap at about 200/pr ). I haven't yet followed up on the swivels, but they are still an objective.

[OffTrack]

Can any one tell me of different brands and where to get front recovery points for a D2. I have tryed to search this but no luck.

The reason you can't find anything is because they are surprisingly hard to find. The sources usually recommended in posts on the forum - Philco, Troutbeck, and 4x4 Intelligence are either simply not responding to email or are no longer trading.

I'm none the wiser about 4x4 Design and Engineering Pty Ltd as their website is broken: Index of / (http://www.4x4de.com.au)

The only people who I had any success contacting was:

Custom Fabrications - Outcast Offroad (http://www.outcastoffroad.com.au/customfabrications.htm)

They list D2 points for $75 a pair. I haven't gone any further than contacting them as I was trying to find points that work with the stock bumper, so I can't comment on quality etc.

cheers
Paul

[Pedro_The_Swift]

use the advanced search,
keywords = recovery points
select the D2 Forum
hit search.

there are hundreds,,,;):D

[OffTrack]

use the advanced search,
keywords = recovery points
select the D2 Forum
hit search.

there are hundreds,,,;):D

Of recommendations for sellers that no longer exist ;) It's a bit like all those "Good Oil" posts which are full of broken links. :angel:

[Pedro_The_Swift]

so you read them all??:o:p

and ANY time you want to step up and look after TGO,, be my guest.

seriously.

[Mundy]

Arguably, one of the other reasons they are hard to find is, I believe, that the suppliers aren't willing to take the risk. I was advised by a couple of places (whom I admit had a vested interest in selling me something more expensive) that the chassis connection isn't designed to take the shock load as is. I invested in an engineered recover point which included a beefing up of the connection point to the chassis. It was several hundred dollars if I recall.

When I got my D2, I had a ridiculous conversation with Land Rover whose response was don't get yourself into the problem in the first place! They then said run a strap under the car from the rear tow bar to recover from the front!

Why one markets a vehicle for off road adventure and doesn't provide recovery points is beyond me.

[OffTrack]

so you read them all??:o:p

and ANY time you want to step up and look after TGO,, be my guest.

seriously.

I don't begrudge you the good oil task at all Pedro. :D

That said I would contribute to a D2 FAQ if there was a way to set that up.

[alpick]

I now took the tip from here somewhere to use google search, prefix the search item with aulro then the key words you looking for.

i.e. aulro d2 recovery points.

seems to give you more specific results than the forum search engine and extends the search to other relevant forums like lroc's etc

[OffTrack]

The best way to limit a google search aulro only is to include:

site:aulro.com

This restricts the search results to the aulro.com domain.

The following link is to site limited results for a d2 recovery points:

search Google (http://www.google.com.au/#q=site:aulro.com+d2+recovery+points)

[simonl8353]

Back to the original question, to accurately help, need to know you have a bull bar fitted or do you have the original front plastic bumper? It makes a big difference in what you can fit as the aftermarket recovery brackets are too short to protrude below the original bumper. I have the std bumper, couldn't afford a bull bar so fitted a second tow point and run a bridle.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/05/62.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/610.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/05/63.jpg

:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)

[harry]

give outcast [grover69] or philco a pm, they are both still around.

if you have an original bumper you can neatly slot the plastic to have the recovery points visible and accessable to put a shackle into.

[harry]

Back to the original question, to accurately help, need to know you have a bull bar fitted or do you have the original front plastic bumper? It makes a big difference in what you can fit as the aftermarket recovery brackets are too short to protrude below the original bumper. I have the std bumper, couldn't afford a bull bar so fitted a second tow point and run a bridle.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/05/62.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/610.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/05/63.jpg

:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)

do you have a better picture of what the shackles attach to?

[simonl8353]

The shackles attach through a sling to two std tow points (one shown in 1st pic). Because of the 2nd attachment point (essential) you have sufficient for most reasonable recoveries. There will be plenty of debate here as their always is with recovery points. I use a 8mm Dynamica sling - the orange rope in pic below, rated 6.6 tonne (at splice) and I figure if 1 shackle (WLL 2T each) or tow point gives way then the sling will slip through the recovery strap and fail safe. No other shackles go into this recovery, and definitely not to join two recovery straps.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/05/61.jpg

Edited below to add more pics I just found.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/900.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/608.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/901.jpg

[scarman]

I have a ARB bar on the front, I just need a good recovery point to match it.

[simonmelb]

I installed the Philco ones as they match the ARB bar setup very well. Link here:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/verandah/113718-disco-2-arb-mounted-recovery-point.html

Cheers
Simon

[John W]

I am joining a group for a Simpson trip and "the group" decided that every one needs rated front recovery points directly attached to the chassis. To date I have relied on ARB doing their sums when they added the recovery points to the front of the Bull Bar but will bend to the wishes of the group. To that end I have just ordered a set from Outcast Offroad. I expect that they will reduce approach angle and will probably only leave them on for this trip but will post back if I like them enough to keep them.

[strangy]

The shackles attach through a sling to two std tow points (one shown in 1st pic). Because of the 2nd attachment point (essential) you have sufficient for most reasonable recoveries. There will be plenty of debate here as their always is with recovery points. I use a 8mm Dynamica sling - the orange rope in pic below, rated 6.6 tonne (at splice) and I figure if 1 shackle (WLL 2T each) or tow point gives way then the sling will slip through the recovery strap and fail safe. No other shackles go into this recovery, and definitely not to join two recovery straps.

Edited below to add more pics I just found.



As you say there will be some debate here, but for actual "off road" recovery, no way I'd hook up to your points.
Some light assistance..... maybe, depending on the circumstance.

LR make it very clear that these points are for "on road" recovery only i.e breakdown pull onto flat top.

Those points are not up to off road recovery and despite your efforts to have a failsafe, still have a strong potential for a shackle or tow point to injure or kill.

Cheers

[jwb]

I am joining a group for a Simpson trip and "the group" decided that every one needs rated front recovery points directly attached to the chassis. To date I have relied on ARB doing their sums when they added the recovery points to the front of the Bull Bar but will bend to the wishes of the group. To that end I have just ordered a set from Outcast Offroad. I expect that they will reduce approach angle and will probably only leave them on for this trip but will post back if I like them enough to keep them.

Given the ARB bull bar is directly bolted to the chassis and the tow points are integral with the bar, how will tow points on the chassis be any different? unless someone in your 'group' is going to do the engineering calcs. Also the recovery points on the market I've seen don't carry any formal ratings including the set I bought from ARB some years back.

I certainly wouldn't be anywhere near someone using the factory fitted tie down point - even doubled up - for recovery rather than towing.

[SiddersC]

Doesn't the ARB bar bolt on to crush cans?, I would have thought in a snatch recovery these would possibly stretch and deform.
I personally wouldn't use my bar for any recovery, and I fitted 4x4 intelligence recovery points to mine and am very happy with them

[clubagreenie]

Exactly right, I've always wondered about how one can engineer something to crush at a certain rate but not stretch under an opposing rate.

I have a custom winch cradle which fits behind the std bumper and outlets under the opening in the lower section. It's fixed directly to the chassis and recovery points, 2 x 8T eye bolts screwed into the winch cradle (10mm plate webbing on 230 x 75 parallel flange channel) and also a spread plate and nut behind. These were tested to breaking point, not torn out but the flange of the channel deformed and the eye bent at 20+T and were still in place at 30+T, after that we stopped. Any more the front of the disco is hitting someone in the head I think.

Nothing stuck out forward of the plastic, was attached to the chassis and also sat onto the steering guard bar that's across the front so it can't rotate if it moved at all.

In regard to "rating" I get everything I make for myself tested locally anyway. For example, I make my own receiver hitch points for rear recoveries. Manufactured from 4140 steel, chosen as it's used also as a high strength material used for tool holding and other structural applications I make a new pin as well to match. With a D1 bar scavenged from the wreckers, bolted to a test bed and a single line pull on a 6.5T shackle through the 4140 hitch & pin it actually deformed the bar slightly just before tearing the pin through the receiver at over 20T.

My new planned front points will be made a bit lighter, but I was thinking of having a secondary backup for the point as a smaller steel cable run from somewhere back that is attached to an independent point on the recovery point or maybe to attach to the line/sling/???? so in the event of failure it's still attached and not flying off. Opinions???

[bob10]

After talking to ARB Queensland I posted in general chat in "MR Auto recovery points " some of the ARB product specification on the design & development of rated & tested recovery points, ARB are the only company in Aust.that is developing engineered points. Might be of interest to some, Bob

[gavinwibrow]

Exactly right, I've always wondered about how one can engineer something to crush at a certain rate but not stretch under an opposing rate.

I have a custom winch cradle which fits behind the std bumper and outlets under the opening in the lower section. It's fixed directly to the chassis and recovery points, 2 x 8T eye bolts screwed into the winch cradle (10mm plate webbing on 230 x 75 parallel flange channel) and also a spread plate and nut behind. These were tested to breaking point, not torn out but the flange of the channel deformed and the eye bent at 20+T and were still in place at 30+T, after that we stopped. Any more the front of the disco is hitting someone in the head I think.

Nothing stuck out forward of the plastic, was attached to the chassis and also sat onto the steering guard bar that's across the front so it can't rotate if it moved at all.

In regard to "rating" I get everything I make for myself tested locally anyway. For example, I make my own receiver hitch points for rear recoveries. Manufactured from 4140 steel, chosen as it's used also as a high strength material used for tool holding and other structural applications I make a new pin as well to match. With a D1 bar scavenged from the wreckers, bolted to a test bed and a single line pull on a 6.5T shackle through the 4140 hitch & pin it actually deformed the bar slightly just before tearing the pin through the receiver at over 20T.

My new planned front points will be made a bit lighter, but I was thinking of having a secondary backup for the point as a smaller steel cable run from somewhere back that is attached to an independent point on the recovery point or maybe to attach to the line/sling/???? so in the event of failure it's still attached and not flying off. Opinions???
Sounds like an impressive system. Any chance of some pics?

[isolbar]

I have just installed recovery points from Philco. Not sure of the rating of these though. Have to get your own bolts. These can be obtained from uv4x4 in Brisbane. Costs about $150 after shipping to Vic.

4x4 Intelligence is now 4x4 Design and Engineering. Michael Samootin runs this and was one of the partners of 4x4 Intelligence. You can search for his contact details in this forum.

[clubagreenie]

This is it behind the tube bar I made, which is legal as it turns out as the original "deformable structure (steel backing of plastic bar) and crush cans are in place. The plastic bar needed the top corners of the lower opening cut square and then heat gunned to bend /curve back and smooth out the lines. You can see the eyebolts hopefully.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/06/1005.jpg

[clubagreenie]

Ordered new xrox bar today.

[bob10]

I have just installed recovery points from Philco. Not sure of the rating of these though. .

Currently there is no Australian Standard that relates to vehicle recovery points, nor an ADR requirement. There would be no rating on those recovery points, or any others, except the 5 recently developed by ARB for : Mazda BT50/ Ford Ranger
Toyota Landcruiser 70 series
Toyota hilux 2005 on
Nissan GU Patrol 3.0 l 2002 on
Bob

[MR LR]

Given the ARB bull bar is directly bolted to the chassis and the tow points are integral with the bar, how will tow points on the chassis be any different? unless someone in your 'group' is going to do the engineering calcs. Also the recovery points on the market I've seen don't carry any formal ratings including the set I bought from ARB some years back.

I certainly wouldn't be anywhere near someone using the factory fitted tie down point - even doubled up - for recovery rather than towing.
IMO the 'eyes' on the D2 ARB bullbar are nothing more than something to hook your winch hook to, i would sooner use the original Land Rover towing eye than them, the bar is bolted to the crush cans, these are designed to deform in an impact, and as such are unsuitable for a shock loading if you want them to stay in shape and your bar not to end up hanging off the car further forward and pointing in the direction your last recovery vehicle was positioned. As one fella mentioned discreet mount winch trays are mounted behind the crush cans, between the chassis rails, in my opiniona recovery point mounted on a bar between the chassis rails with adequte strength and reinforcement would make the best recovery point (like a towbar on the front, behind the crush cans). I like the recovery points made out of ~10mm plate that replace the factory ones, but i'll never be comfortable recovering a vehicle from just one chassis rail and i don't like the triangulaton rope set ups (think pigeon toed chassis), Thats why i always recover vehicles from the back through the towbar and winch them if they need to be pulled out forwards (as if my car was stuck i guess, i'd winch it forward). But i do encourage people to buy the ones made by the mentioned sellers of uprated recovery points, although i'll never have them myelf as i custom fabricate everything to my specs, which is basically beef and bracing.

Cheers
Will

[tomalophicon]

Currently there is no Australian Standard that relates to vehicle recovery points, nor an ADR requirement. There would be no rating on those recovery points, or any others, except the 5 recently developed by ARB for : Mazda BT50/ Ford Ranger
Toyota Landcruiser 70 series
Toyota hilux 2005 on
Nissan GU Patrol 3.0 l 2002 on
Bob

You can buy recovery hooks from everywhere that have 4.0t stamped on them.

[bob10]

You can buy recovery hooks from everywhere that have 4.0t stamped on them.
There are lots of generic tow hooks rated up to 10000 lbs or similar, but the design is not vehicle specific , and usually mounting of these is left up to the buyer, with no info on how or where to mount on the vehicle. This leaves the question of whether the surface they are mounted to can handle the load on the hook during a recovery. I am talking about recovery " points", not hooks, totally different animal. BTW., the hooks have been developed for the construction industry, no product testing has been done that is vehicle specific. Bob

[gusthedog]

i'll never be comfortable recovering a vehicle from just one chassis rail and i don't like the triangulaton rope set ups (think pigeon toed chassis)

My theory on this is that the longer the 'V' of equalisation strap, the less pull inwards (or pigeon toed if you like) on the chasis rails. This theory comes from rock climbing and I use it (read used to) all the time when setting up anchor points. On the other hand, the tow bar essentially uses right angles where it joins on the chasis. Thus by pulling off a towbar you are putting two right angles at stress rather than an extremely obtuse angle, essentially putting more stress on a chasis in a more confined area.

I always use winch extension strap instead of a tree protector to equalise the load on the front of my chasis when recovering. Also Im no expert but think that tow bars are not really designed for shock loads. It this correct?

[bob10]

Also Im no expert but think that tow bars are not really designed for shock loads. It this correct?
I'm certainly no expert either, but I questioned a couple of people in the industry who should know, and they say the tow bar, if fitted correctly, is in effect part of the chassis, and with the proper fitting [a solid bar with shackle fitted, slips into tow bar connection, using the same pin] it is safe to use, as long as safe procedures are followed.[ don't plant the foot & go like mad] They repeated the mantra " NEVER USE THE TOW BALL FOR RECOVERY"[ it cannot handle the shock loads] , they also said never use just the pin fitted through the strap. All of the experienced folk I talk to say it's best to exhaust other methods [ shovel, sand tracks, air bag,etc] before resorting to snatching, & when snatching, use only enough right foot to get the stuck vehicle on the move. So much to learn, and there is only a finite amount of Bundy :D Bob

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

I'm certainly no expert either, but I questioned a couple of people in the industry who should know, and they say the tow bar, if fitted correctly, is in effect part of the chassis, and with the proper fitting [a solid bar with shackle fitted, slips into tow bar connection, using the same pin] it is safe to use, as long as safe procedures are followed.[ don't plant the foot & go like mad] They repeated the mantra " NEVER USE THE TOW BALL FOR RECOVERY"[ it cannot handle the shock loads] , they also said never use just the pin fitted through the strap. All of the experienced folk I talk to say it's best to exhaust other methods [ shovel, sand tracks, air bag,etc] before resorting to snatching, & when snatching, use only enough right foot to get the stuck vehicle on the move. So much to learn, and there is only a finite amount of Bundy :D Bob

See you get different answers from different blokes, seen plenty of recovery demos where they use the hayman reese pin through the loop of the snatch strap and recken that's safe. Now more connfusion.
then there is the goose neck with a tow eye welded on that you slip in to replace the tow goose nech and ball, and attach your snap strap to it via a rated shackle

[bob10]

See you get different answers from different blokes, seen plenty of recovery demos where they use the hayman reese pin through the loop of the snatch strap and recken that's safe. Now more connfusion.
then there is the goose neck with a tow eye welded on that you slip in to replace the tow goose nech and ball, and attach your snap strap to it via a rated shackle
I could be wrong, but there doesn't seem to be a common standard for recovery instruction across Australia [ except in the military] Even watched a video " using kinetic straps with John Rich " supposedly a recovery guru, who attached the strap to the vehicle front tow points, connected to the vehicle by two small welds. I can understand getting conflicting advice from forum members who go on their own experience, but it sure gets confusing when the so called experts give conflicting advice. Above all else, I think safety is the common denominator, if you dont think it's safe, don't do it.Bob

[Rocky88]

Can someone post a pic of recovery points properly fitted on a d2 with ARB bar?

I did a google search and most people seem to use these two bolts to mount the aftermarket recovery points. I thought they should be mounted behind the crush cans though... :confused:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

like this guy:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

I cant seem to find a definitive answer anywhere on the internet...

[gavinwibrow]

Can someone post a pic of recovery points properly fitted on a d2 with ARB bar?

I did a google search and most people seem to use these two bolts to mount the aftermarket recovery points. I thought they should be mounted behind the crush cans though... :confused:

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/8885/recoverypoints.png

like this guy:

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg695/scaled.php'server=695&filename=rp04b.png&res=landing

I cant seem to find a definitive answer anywhere on the internet...
rocky88 - your summation is spot on - it should be the two vertical bolts behind/rearward of the crush cans (I had to modify my steering guard cross member to suit). The location/fixing of the red ones is an invitation to disaster.
I can supply a photo later if no-one beats me to it.

[grover69]

[QUOTE=gavinwibrow;1718848]rocky88 - your summation is spot on - it should be the two vertical bolts behind/rearward of the crush cans (I had to modify my steering guard cross member to suit). The location/fixing of the red ones is an invitation to disaster.
I can supply a photo later if no-one beats me to it.[/QUOTE


Crush points on an airbag compliant ballbar are designed to crush not stretch , So can you please explain the invitation to desaster as it allways good to get an experts opinion on things.

[simonl8353]

Another view of the bolts behind the crush cans.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/900.jpg

[gavinwibrow]

[QUOTE=gavinwibrow;1718848]rocky88 - your summation is spot on - it should be the two vertical bolts behind/rearward of the crush cans (I had to modify my steering guard cross member to suit). The location/fixing of the red ones is an invitation to disaster.
I can supply a photo later if no-one beats me to it.[/QUOTE


Crush points on an airbag compliant ballbar are designed to crush not stretch , So can you please explain the invitation to desaster as it allways good to get an experts opinion on things.
I'm no expert, but there is no way I would be doing any significant pulling/jerking using anything attached forward of the crush cans and risking distorting them. Logically, the airbag compliant bull bars are attached in front of the cans.

Edit - correct bullbar location typo

[grover69]

[quote=grover69;1718905]
I'm no expert, but there is no way I would be doing any significant pulling/jerking using anything attached forward of the crush cans and risking distorting them. Logically, the airbag compliant bull bars are attached in front of the cans.

Edit - correct bullbar location typo


Well i think that explains everything.(pulling\jerking)

[Tombie]

Although the ARB crush can is capable of 15t before deformation...

Hence why ARB winch bars have the winch on the bar (in front of mount)

[gavinwibrow]

Although the ARB crush can is capable of 15t before deformation...

Hence why ARB winch bars have the winch on the bar (in front of mount)
I concur. I think we would also all agree there are potentially significant differences between pulling with a winch, and pulling or snatching with a vehicle (although a snatch strap should break well before 15 tonnes?)

[CJT]

This is how mine aremounted on the D2, direct to the chassis rails where the crush cans and bash plate mount to.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/02/1357.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/1030.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/831.jpg

[Tombie]

Mine are mounted through the blade of the ARB winch bar, in-line with the chassis using RUD swivel points...

15t is deformation point, an 8t snatch strap will break at 8-9t... :cool:

[gavinwibrow]

Mine are mounted through the blade of the ARB winch bar, in-line with the chassis using RUD swivel points...

15t is deformation point, an 8t snatch strap will break at 8-9t... :cool:
Picture would be nice if you have time - particularly interested in the swivels!

[Ferret]

Mine are mounted through the blade of the ARB winch bar, in-line with the chassis using RUD swivel points...

15t is deformation point, an 8t snatch strap will break at 8-9t... :cool:

Maybe the riggers around here can clarify but I always thought if there was a rating on a strap, say 8t, then the strap is rated to safely handle an 8 tonne load without failing. That 8t rating is referenced to a safety factor, 3:1 for instance. Therefore actual failure does not occur until a load of 24 tonnes is reached.

Of course this all about static loads. All bets are off with dynamic loads.

[jaffa]

Sounds like a lot of talk over nothing here they're just disco's if they get stuck just leave them there, they are a dime a dozen anyway.

[Tombie]

Maybe the riggers around here can clarify but I always thought if there was a rating on a strap, say 8t, then the strap is rated to safely handle an 8 tonne load without failing. That 8t rating is referenced to a safety factor, 3:1 for instance. Therefore actual failure does not occur until a load of 24 tonnes is reached.

Of course this all about static loads. All bets are off with dynamic loads.

Rigging gear yes... But this is not rigging gear...

4wd gear (straps) are rated to Max... No safety factor....

Shackles yes, have the factor - hence 3.7t shackles on 8t snatch straps :eek:


ALSO important - Dont use an over rated strap eg... a 15t snatch strap is no good to recover a 3t 4wd as they dont get the stretch up as easy and can do damage!

[Rocky88]

This is how mine aremounted on the D2, direct to the chassis rails where the crush cans and bash plate mount to.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/02/1357.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/1030.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/831.jpg

I've noticed you needed an aftermarket steering guard, because you can't put anything on top of the factory one



Although the ARB crush can is capable of 15t before deformation...

Hence why ARB winch bars have the winch on the bar (in front of mount)

Based on that the crush cans should be fine, considering average snach strap has a breaking point of 9T. Why does everyone say you should never use bullbar for recovery though?

[Ferret]

Rigging gear yes... But this is not rigging gear...

4wd gear (straps) are rated to Max... No safety factor....

Shackles yes, have the factor - hence 3.7t shackles on 8t snatch straps :eek:


ALSO important - Dont use an over rated strap eg... a 15t snatch strap is no good to recover a 3t 4wd as they dont get the stretch up as easy and can do damage!

Fair enough. Thinking about it, I think I'd want my strap to break first before whatever it's attached to breaks

[clubagreenie]

As I just got a new bar and had the same questions re the recover points and also the winch as it's mounted to the bar which is fixed to the cans (so has the same effect) They say that it is possible to engineer the cans to deform but not stretch and as such this is what happens in the event of an accident. Given the xrox stuff is pretty heavy duty anyway (as opposed to the shear pin system in the original cans) if or when it moves I'll take it up with them. Should be noticeable by the bar either being an inch or two forward or under the car.

[disco_thrasher]

Sounds like a lot of talk over nothing here they're just disco's if they get stuck just leave them there, they are a dime a dozen anyway.

D2 need as many recovery points as possible maybe put some on the door handles or roof rails for a side recovery:o

[ZippoParis]

This is how mine aremounted on the D2, direct to the chassis rails where the crush cans and bash plate mount to.



https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/1030.jpg



Are these homemade, or purchased?

Either way; how much?

Cheers.

[John W]

OK I have received a set of recovery points from Outcast Offroad. My opinion from just an eye ball calculation is that to bolt the points in front of the crush cans as per the photos is more questionable than using the suppled eyes on the ARB bar. The eyes are inline with the chassis and the bar is bolted to the cans with 8 bolts. Bolting the recovery points under the bull bar will put a rotational force on the bar during a tug as it is not a straight line pull on the chassis and would be more likely to distort the crush cans, I think. Also each recovery point will be attached with only 2 bolts so a total of 4 vs 8 for the bull bar. The bolts would only be through one side of the crash can assembly too so a single "skin".

Behind the crush cans there is a spot where you could drill the chassis rail and bolt through but sounds like work and I am not exactly happy about putting holes and potentially cracks in the chassis.

On the drivers side there are the bolts that hold the steering box to the chassis. Longer bolts and the recovery points would fit. Some concern I guess with a big pull of moving the box but it would have to be the sort of pull that would rip the metal of the chassis. On the passenger side there are a couple of bolt holes in the chassis. I would need to remove the lower plastic retainer for the inner mud guard and I would have to elongate one of the holes a few mm in the recovery point to line up but this would be manageable.

I've decided not to bother putting them on and will continue to rely on the supplied ARB points. But if anyone wants my set send me a PM:D

[CJT]

Are these homemade, or purchased?

Either way; how much?

Cheers.

I bought mine from 4x4 Intelligence a few years ago before they stopped the business.

I am not aware of any others that bolt to the same location at the moment.

I may be able to look at having a few sets plasma cut and powdercoated, not sure on what the cost would be though.

[Grumpy]

As I just got a new bar and had the same questions re the recover points and also the winch as it's mounted to the bar which is fixed to the cans (so has the same effect) They say that it is possible to engineer the cans to deform but not stretch and as such this is what happens in the event of an accident. Given the xrox stuff is pretty heavy duty anyway (as opposed to the shear pin system in the original cans) if or when it moves I'll take it up with them. Should be noticeable by the bar either being an inch or two forward or under the car.


I was told when I bought mine that they must be behind the concertina points on the bull bar (ARB type).

Tony :wheelchair:

[CJT]

Are these homemade, or purchased?

Either way; how much?

Cheers.

Just had a bit of a search, you can still get the recovery points I have through 4x4 Design and Engineering.

4x4 Design and Engineering - Landrover Discovery 2 (http://www.4x4de.com.au/landrover-discovery-2#two)

[clubagreenie]

In the instructions they detail two holes on each side that match the bolt pattern of those terrible hooks. Also on the front outside the winch hawse hole there are two holes detailed for recovery eyes. I checked on saturday with them and they can be opened up for larger sized eye bolts.

[Gullible]

Any more info on what recovery points us poor mortals that have a standard front bar can use?

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I had the chance to inspect a TJM bar for a brand new BT50 4wd,,,
bolted directly to the crush cans with twin eyelets in a direct line forward.
There is a sticker that says a bridle MUST be used.

[onebob]

Any more info on what recovery points us poor mortals that have a standard front bar can use?

The ones that CJT found at 4X4 Design and Engineering will fit with a standard front bar and they bolt to the same holes as the steering protector bar. For access to the recovery points you need to trim (i mean cut off) the bottom of the plastic bumper along the lower mould line. This was a common mod so i expect that there are photo's and a "how to" already posted on this forum.

Onebob

[schuy1]

I agree with John W in regard to the mountings on most of these recovery eyes in that the rotational forces applied in a tug of any size will do damage.
I have always been taught that pulls MUST be as straight line as possible, and that would apply to inline of the chassis also. As an experiment hook a winch to the top of your bullbar and see how much in will turn as opposed to attaching to the bumper section! As Pedro said also use of a bridle will spread the forces dramatically.
Just my thoughts as a broken mounting embedded in a pull car is thought provoking to say the least! :O

[Gullible]

The ones that CJT found at 4X4 Design and Engineering will fit with a standard front bar and they bolt to the same holes as the steering protector bar. For access to the recovery points you need to trim (i mean cut off) the bottom of the plastic bumper along the lower mould line. This was a common mod so i expect that there are photo's and a "how to" already posted on this forum.

Onebob

I'd like to see how much is 'trimmed'. Has anyone done this and have photos.

I'm sceptical as the 4x4de sight shows the recovery points fitted to a vehicle that has a bull bar and steering protector plate fitted not the standard bumper and wombat bar.

I have the 4x4de steering protector and Troutbeck recovery points that were fitted to my D1. Although the bolt holes may be in the same place the front of a D2 is by no means the same. I'd have to hack the front bumper quite a bit for any recovery as the shackles would sit low and far back. :(

Unlike the D1 where you could take off the lower skirt and trim the side bumper corners along a mould line that matched up with the metal bumper, the D2 is a one peace moulding. :(

[OffTrack]

I'd like to see how much is 'trimmed'. Has anyone done this and have photos.

I'm sceptical as the 4x4de sight shows the recovery points fitted to a vehicle that has a bull bar and steering protector plate fitted not the standard bumper and wombat bar.

I have the 4x4de steering protector and Troutbeck recovery points that were fitted to my D1. Although the bolt holes may be in the same place the front of a D2 is by no means the same. I'd have to hack the front bumper quite a bit for any recovery as the shackles would sit low and far back. :(

Unlike the D1 where you could take off the lower skirt and trim the side bumper corners along a mould line that matched up with the metal bumper, the D2 is a one peace moulding. :(

I have the same dilemmas with wanting to keep the stock bumper, and not really having much luck finding a recovery point that plays nicely. The ideal point needs to be accessible via the existing hatch - I have plans to cut a similar hatch on the other over-rider if I manage to find something suitable.

I've been tempted to get a couple of points modelled on the stock point made up, using 6mm side plates and the hoop and bottom replaced with 10 or 12mm plate. My main concern is if the welding will be adequately strong.

cheers
Paul

[Gullible]

I have seen something similar to your idea where they attach a rated hook to the bottom plate. I'll see if I can find the thread.

Here it is:

http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/showthread.php't=34369

[OffTrack]

you mean this?

http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=34139&d=1242205768

Similar idea, but what I was thinking was uprated but functionally identical to the stock point in that you would attach a shackles and bridle directly to the points via the cut out in the same way as shown in this earlier post: http://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2/151629-d2-front-recovery-points-2.html#post1693004

I was planning on a single 10 or 12 mm bottom plate with a cutout for attaching a shackle. The side plates would be about half this thickness - because you have two plates resisting lateral forces in what is effectively a box section this should be at least as resistant to bending forces as a single 12mm plate hook.

cheers
Paul

[Gullible]

I think there are +s and -s for both methods.

If you go with a cut-out you will need enough metal in front of the hole to take the forces exerted during a recovery. Is will required the shackle being further inside the bumper.

If you bolt a rated hook to the bottom plate the tip of the hook can be at the end or even slightly protrude in front of the plate.

I'm still doing some thinking about this and have not settled one way or the other. :)

[OffTrack]

If you use a bridle of reasonable length it isn't going to be a big issue. We are talking about the leading edge of the cut out being 20 mm behind the bumper.

[Tombie]

Davis makes a rated version of the stock tow point...

Might suit your needs

[OffTrack]

Davis makes a rated version of the stock tow point...

Might suit your needs

Thanks Tombie,

After being frightened by Ritter quoting $275 per point for rated recovery points, I spoke to Adam at Davis Performance Landy and discovered the reinforced points are $135 each but you need to send them your original recovery hook as an exchange.

Apparently the points have been tested and the chassis broke before the point gave way.

Looks like I'll be following the path of least resistance.

[Gullible]

Yep that sounds like the way to go.

[clubagreenie]

I have a winch mount designed to go behind the std bumper, also behind the line of the crush cans and has been drilled for taking two eye bolts. I have used this prevously with a tigers 12000lb winch snatch block and bridle and no issues.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/%3Ca%20href=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/35/imag0233u.jpg/%20target=_blank%3E[img]https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/08/532.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/08/532.jpg

[Gullible]

That is a very tidy set up.

I think I'm just going to go for replacing the original until my situation changes and I can get out 4X4ing more often.

[Gullible]

Thanks Tombie,

After being frightened by Ritter quoting $275 per point for rated recovery points, I spoke to Adam at Davis Performance Landy and discovered the reinforced points are $135 each but you need to send them your original recovery hook as an exchange.

Apparently the points have been tested and the chassis broke before the point gave way.

Looks like I'll be following the path of least resistance.

Well I just fitted the Davis Performance Landy recovery points. They are a serious peace of kit.

There is small but thick plate that needs to be welded to the chassis which has 2 threaded holes as the recovery point requires 4 bolts to secure it.

I took the bumper off and drove to the local engineering workshop who then welded the plate on, painted it and then bolted the recovery point on. All for $50. How happy am I. :D:D:D

[clubagreenie]

We'd be happy with pics...

[Gullible]

I did not manage to take any photos of the installation as I was a bit rushed and unsure how long the job would take.

Here are some photos of the recovery point out of the bag.

http://imageshack.us/a/img96/9403/img2808dl.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/96/img2808dl.jpg/)


Side shot showing the thickness and the side of the plate that needs welding on to the chassis

http://imageshack.us/a/img802/7443/img2809e.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/802/img2809e.jpg/)


And a bottom shot showing the 2 bolts that attach the recovery point to the plate.

http://imageshack.us/a/img411/8607/img2812x.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/411/img2812x.jpg/)

[Gullible]

From the front

http://imageshack.us/a/img577/2374/img2831g.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/577/img2831g.jpg/)


The welded plate and two extra bolts

http://imageshack.us/a/img201/2514/img2832xy.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/201/img2832xy.jpg/)


As best I can from the rear

http://imageshack.us/a/img580/7724/img2833x.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/580/img2833x.jpg/)

[blindin]

Hi, I believe that any recovery point, or hook you can buy will be rated, but that is just the actual point, as someone has already mentioned, the way that point is mounted to the vehicle is the important part, there is no one who will be able to put a rating on that, unless you can get a engineer to personally test it. Even if you get points specific to your vehicle, it will still only be the point itself which is rated. the bolts used to mount it would need to be h/t and even over time, the mounting points can wear.
Having said all that, I am keen to know what has been done for front recovery points, as I am looking for ideas at the moment. I personally would not like using just the 2 bolts at the front of the chassis, and the recovery points which curve down, I am not a big fan of, I am looking at making some thing which will stick straight out from the chassis, and possibly welding additional lugs along the chassis legs. I currently have a d1 with 2 rated points on the front, but I would never use them other than a very light tow, even though they are rated at 10000lbs each. No matter how stuck your vehicle is, it is not worth having some one injured or killed by poor mounted recovery points.

[Gullible]

The above recovery point IS RATED.