300TDI auto won't change when cold!

[JohnE]

Thanks in advance for the advice.

I know this question has been asked before, i have researched the WWW about it.
Problem; when I start the disco off when cold it will not change from first gear sometimes has gone to nearly 4k in the rev range and it stays in first gear, i back off and then there is no gear, slow it down give it a rev and it goes back into first gear. Driving up the hill from my place it takes about a km to get it to change via a combination of stopping starting and driving slow, then it changes up and is fine after that. if I drive down the hil and let it idle along it changes up after about 1/2 a km, then is fine after that.
The kickdown wasn;t working too well actually not at all.
The past week sometimes I put it in gear and there is nothing forward or reverse. A bit of gear lever fiddling and it goes into gear.

Living near Lismore there are not a lot of transmission experts about so I went to one that I had spoken to before. I wanted to know if they knew ZF boxes, they told me they did.
This week had it booked it, as all the info I got seemed to point to the govenor having 'crap' in it the 'expert' said that cleaning it would work, Dropped it off and picked it up in the afternoon, still the same problem. Went back and The 'expert' told me all he did was move the kickdown cable to the highest setting and it changed fine for him. The plus side is he didn;t charge me for it. I again explained what it was doing and he then seemed unsure of what it could be and maybe needed a flush or the servo valve might be stuck ( filter and oil were changed about a month ago. And it was doing it before that) The first time I spoke to him he reckoned it was probably the govenor and it needed a clean.

Now i don;t know whether to take it back to them to get them to do what they first were going to do, my confidence in their ability is not too good.

Solution. At this stage have no idea.
has anyone, I know a few have, had the same problem and how did you get it fixed.
Does it mean another transmission?
According to most reports a new one will cost more than the NRMA has valued the car at.
A recoed one from the Ashcrofts is about 700 odd pounds plus freight.
Are there any good honest ZF/4wd experts anywhere south of brissy preferably the gold coast?


john

[Blknight.aus]

new filter + oil change....

if you want to bush hack it...

drop the ATF put diesel in it, warm it up with all 4 wheels off the ground)

flush the diesel out with new ATF.

[justinc]

John,

Sounds very like the Governor sticking and/or downshift cable sticking/ frayed in the outer. I am concerned they tried the downshift cable in its max position and reported OK :o, that is wrong. The governor is a pain to get at due to removing the transfer case first, and I would suggest that coupled with your experience with no gear selection at times at all I would be concerned the problem could be deeper still, trans overhaul imminent?:(

JC

[bigcarle]

i had a problem years ago with a B/W sticking in gear until warm, turned out to be a sticking kick-down cable from too many engine cleans, i would look there as a "quick" fix and also follow blknight suggestions, easier than doing the governor which can be done if all else fails

[Tank]

There is a Teflon based oil that you can use in Autos and it can be a temporary fix for the governor sticking, like yours is, this advice was given to me by a local Auto Trans repairer, not a cure but it will keep it going till you need to rebuild, can't think of the name, might be made by Wynns, about $30 a bottle 500ml, Regards Frank.

[JohnE]

many thanks for the replies so far, I keep thinking its something simple, and not major. it only started a couple of months ago and yes like big carle mine has been washed regularly under bonnet, after all they all leak!!
the govenor seems free enough even when you run it manually, doesn;t seem to be sticking, but I'l take that suggestion on board, i might even loosen it off because since thursday it has been rough shifting, might be too tight.

Not sure about the wynns product, but there is one out their that I discovered this morning called Lubeguard.its a yank product.
International Lubricants Inc. (ILI) - Makers of LUBEGARD (http://www.lubegard.com/home.aspx)

it reads well and the testimonial page seems ok there are even some comments from transmission repairers in OZ. I have the details of one on the north shore, so will call them on monday to see if their comments are true.

john

[JohnE]

one more for Dave, flush it with diesel?
ok so i drop the 5 litres from the pan put in 5 litres
of diesel run it in gear with the wheels of the ground till warm easy enough.
but how mnay flushes will get all the diesel out. It holds 9 litres all up.
a couple of flushes then change the filter??

thanks
john

[justinc]

many thanks for the replies so far, I keep thinking its something simple, and not major. it only started a couple of months ago and yes like big carle mine has been washed regularly under bonnet, after all they all leak!!
the govenor seems free enough even when you run it manually, doesn;t seem to be sticking, but I'l take that suggestion on board, i might even loosen it off because since thursday it has been rough shifting, might be too tight.

Not sure about the wynns product, but there is one out their that I discovered this morning called Lubeguard.its a yank product.
International Lubricants Inc. (ILI) - Makers of LUBEGARD (http://www.lubegard.com/home.aspx)

it reads well and the testimonial page seems ok there are even some comments from transmission repairers in OZ. I have the details of one on the north shore, so will call them on monday to see if their comments are true.

john


Kickdown cable replacement in a ZF 4HP requires removal of the valvebody, so no quick fixes there I'm afraid , and you will need to have a surgically clean area to work in, and enjoy lying in a pool of ATF...:(

JC

[Blknight.aus]

one more for Dave, flush it with diesel?
ok so i drop the 5 litres from the pan put in 5 litres
of diesel run it in gear with the wheels of the ground till warm easy enough.
but how mnay flushes will get all the diesel out. It holds 9 litres all up.
a couple of flushes then change the filter??

thanks
john

20-30 liters.

[Tank]

many thanks for the replies so far, I keep thinking its something simple, and not major. it only started a couple of months ago and yes like big carle mine has been washed regularly under bonnet, after all they all leak!!
the govenor seems free enough even when you run it manually, doesn;t seem to be sticking, but I'l take that suggestion on board, i might even loosen it off because since thursday it has been rough shifting, might be too tight.

Not sure about the wynns product, but there is one out their that I discovered this morning called Lubeguard.its a yank product.
International Lubricants Inc. (ILI) - Makers of LUBEGARD (http://www.lubegard.com/home.aspx)

it reads well and the testimonial page seems ok there are even some comments from transmission repairers in OZ. I have the details of one on the north shore, so will call them on monday to see if their comments are true.

john
As I said it may be made by Wynns, I do know that it is a Teflon based Auto product that is designed to free up sticky valves and governors, mine does the same, it does it less here on the coast than it does up in Canberra so altitude may have a bearing as well, It only does it once then OK or the rest of the day, for $30 worth trying, regards Frank.

[JohnE]

Well i finally sourced some Lubeguard at the new Bursons store in Lismore, the protector stuff, that I think does the same as the Wynns stuff Frank was talking about. Put the bottle in, drove the car up and downt he round for it to circulate and parked the car.
Got in it to go to work this morning, it was a bit hesitant to pick a gear( it had been doing that for a couple of weeks. Went into gear, I drove off did a u-turn to head down the hill and felt a quick gear change, then nothing, got about a K down the round and nothing wouldn;t even go into 1st or reverse.
Seeing I live 1 m from town a bit of a prob, got onto the NRMA and eventually got it towed home,first I was going to get it towed to the transmission bloke, but lucky I rang him , he's flat out and wouldn;t be able to get to it till next week.
Gearbox dead not picking up a gear , a slight whirring coming from it when it was in gear, not sure what it is,tried it again this evening and nothing no gear at all.
Have no idea, selector come loose?? have no idea with auto boxes.
Popped in to see the transmission bloke when i eventually got into town, he couldn;t tell me what but reckoned it I needed another box I would be better of getting a new one direct from ZF as the price isn;t much different to a reco-ed one. Reckoned he put a tranmission into a TD5 recently and the bloke paid $1,900 or thereabouts for it from ZF.
I will call them tomorrow and find out.
Thanks for the hints and suggestions, maybe lubeguard is that good it makes faults appear quickly!
oh well who said Landrovers aren;t a challenge.


john

[Tank]

Might be a silly question but, does it have any oil in it, Regards Frank.

[JohnE]

thanks frank,
no I have been checking it and it has fluid in it. Well it did on monday arvo.
Rang ZF they do recos for 2900,but don;t have any in stock.
Can't do much ATM its out the front in the open and it has been raining all week, I can barely fit under it, will wait till the rain stops , get the tractor and drag it into the yard. So I can jack it up and get under it.
had a look under the other day and there seemed to be a lot of oil leaking where it wasn;t before. wonder if the auto dude had done something to it.
Anyway have to wait.
Had a look at the ashcrofts site and they charge 675 pds for a reco, not sure of what the case deposit is. Then freight.
Its frustrating, bloody weather.

The funny part is it just went, first gear a quick change and nothing, am wondering if the transfer case has popped into neutral, well its possible, haven;t checked it.


john

[Grumbles]

In December 2011 I asked Ashcroft a similar question for my 1994 LSE Classic Rangies BW transfer case and ZF auto.

They replied thus -

autobox £ 975 outright,
borg warner transfer case £ 775 outright,

carriage approx £ 300-350 to your airport or may be able to send by sea, for less,

[steve_a]

Not sure if it will help but have a look at Ashcroft Transmissions - 4HP22 FAQ's (http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=221) . Covers the first problem, and now your second problem mentioned (maybe?) - Broken pump?

[JohnE]

thanks grumbles and steve,
yep had already looked at the ashcroft site plus a stack of others, govenor dirt was the suggestion from nearly everyone, that part was easy, or so i thought. The pump failing ( well thats what it appears to have happened.
Just in case it happens to anyone else, check the atf level and you will find it is very high twice what it should be. do that with the engine off. Then start it put it in neutral and check it again, if the level does not change then the pump is not pumping, hence pump failure, no need for a pressure test as there will be none.
Popped in a spoke to a well known L/R mechanic at Nerang the other day, he could only suggest one person on the gold coast he would send anyone to with a ZF box problem.
Spoke to a reasonable mechanic in Lismore yesterday and his words were that there are only two blokes in the area he would let touch a zf landy box,one is in Lismore the other in Ballina and they are brothers. He wouldn't even rate the bloke i went to.
Will get in touch with them and see what they are like.
Ashcrofts will be the fall back, but on those prices its still cheaper than here.
john

[blitz]

John,

Sounds very like the Governor sticking and/or downshift cable sticking/ frayed in the outer. I am concerned they tried the downshift cable in its max position and reported OK :o, that is wrong. The governor is a pain to get at due to removing the transfer case first, and I would suggest that coupled with your experience with no gear selection at times at all I would be concerned the problem could be deeper still, trans overhaul imminent?:(

JC

I'm not a gambling man but I would put money on this being the problem

[blitz]

you can also fit a ZF4HP24EH with a compushift kit to make it go (even has paddle shift if you want)

[steve_a]

The pump failing ( well thats what it appears to have happened.
Just in case it happens to anyone else, check the atf level and you will find it is very high twice what it should be. do that with the engine off. Then start it put it in neutral and check it again, if the level does not change then the pump is not pumping, hence pump failure, no need for a pressure test as there will be none.

I can't see why this check wouldn't work, and if it does I'm impressed, that's a neat way to check it!

You can't replace the pump yourself? I've only ever been inside the auto on the D2 V8 to replace the filter, so haven't a clue but it feels like something that should be doable.
If you go the ashcroft route your box isn't going in return to them anyway is it? So it could be worth considering?


Edit:
Just wandering around and found this http://web.archive.org/web/20090126070013/http://cowdery.org.uk/zf.php which I think shows the pump is just behind the bell housing, so might be doable in the car?

[justinc]

I can't see why this check wouldn't work, and if it does I'm impressed, that's a neat way to check it!

You can't replace the pump yourself? I've only ever been inside the auto on the D2 V8 to replace the filter, so haven't a clue but it feels like something that should be doable.
If you go the ashcroft route your box isn't going in return to them anyway is it? So it could be worth considering?


Edit:
Just wandering around and found this Chris Cowdery Global Presence (http://web.archive.org/web/20090126070013/http://cowdery.org.uk/zf.php) which I think shows the pump is just behind the bell housing, so might be doable in the car?


nice thought, but i wouldn't be tempted to, i have just replaced a trans due to a similar issue and the metal particles go through everwhere...:(

jc

[JohnE]

thanks everyone for your input, i am sure others will benfit from the information everyone has contributed.
Just an update on what I have done so far;
this is a great site, people from all areas united for a common purpose ie the lunacy of owning a land rover!

On thursday I spoke to Warren who i met through this site, and happens to live in town. told him about my problem, he supplied me with a phone number of a Discovery expert down the coast, One phone call later i have a second hand tdi transmission that has done about 100k , for $1,000.
The torque converter with it is going to be reco'ed as part of the deal, because apparently they are the cause of some of the transmission problems. Will be ready mid week, so all I have to do is source a good mechanic to instal it.( I already have found one in Lismore )


john

[pdd1098]

I have a freshly reconditioned ZF done by Balina Auto's, the whole job cost $3500+ It has only done 200ish kms, and I'm only 45 minutes from you.
You can have all the receipts and they should honor the warranty(though I'm sure it will be fault free for many years) It's in the for sale section here, make me an offer.
Cheeers
Dave:)

Dohh...I diddn't read page 3! If that one falls through I have one here with only 200 kms on it!