Drove past a P38 4.6 HSE today

[Mick_Marsh]

It's for sale. Should I check it out?
If I do, what are the things I should be looking out for?

[RR P38]

In dash warnings/faults on the message center.
All the electrics work.
Has it got more than 1 key?
Anything unusual going on in the expansion bottle.
Clean trans fluid. How is it shifting?
EAS is it working ok? check the air springs for cracks not a big issue to those that own a 38 but its about $7-800 for 4 new ones if you do it your self.
Get some one to put a Hawkeye or Nano/test book on it for you.

[p38arover]

Does the HEVAC operate correctly, i.e., can you adjust the temp up and down on each side; does the distribution system work, do the fans work, does recirculate work. Is the chequebook (aka book) symbol displayed in the HEVAC panel? (Expensive)

Is the rear compartment loadspace cover still there (they get lost).

Is the rear mirror still reflecting or has the fluid leaked out? (Expensive)

Very hard upper radiator hose when hot or using water? (Very Expensive)

[justinc]

I think the important thing here Mick, is that you drove PAST.

KEEP on driving,( PAST IT) and no problems will ever rear their ugly head to drain your hard earned coin from your bank faster than dropping a box of change in a supermarket...

...and here endeth the lesson.


:D



JC

[Grumbles]

.

...and here endeth the lesson.


:D



JC

And lesson end it might well be but beware the false prophet. :p

[Mick_Marsh]

Don't hold back Justin. Tell us what you really think.
Dropping a box of change on the supermarket floor? Small fry.
I own two classic Mercedes. Try throwing stacks of fifties.........

I've seen the aftermath of P38's in action. The way they drive into puddles and are towed out, with all the electrics working .......... at the same time.

Just remember Justin, there are some people who are beyond saving. These people you should guide. Oh, and this forum is full of them.

[Hoges]

Was it manufactured pre or post 1999...there's a significant difference.
If you have a big shed with plentry of room to disassemble it and you're not relying on it for your daily drive and you can get it up to scratch...then be prepared for a fair bit of work...albeit satisfying work.

There's no cure for P38 addiction ..if there is ...I've yet to come across it ...but I am beginning to feel some attraction to the 110 for its (relative) simplicity...

Perhaps I'm just depressed that the new P38 axle seal I have replaced (twice in 3 days) with a LOT of care is leaking yet AGAIN... :mad:

[Keithy P38]

Dodgy seals I say! I used the britpart seals in mine and my garage floor is still spotless to this day. The genuine land rover ones on the other hand...

[justinc]

And lesson end it might well be but beware the false prophet. :p

:eek: its off to the soapbox for this one! may get locked though in superquick time....:D

jc

[justinc]

Don't hold back Justin. Tell us what you really think.
Dropping a box of change on the supermarket floor? Small fry.
I own two classic Mercedes. Try throwing stacks of fifties.........

I've seen the aftermath of P38's in action. The way they drive into puddles and are towed out, with all the electrics working .......... at the same time.

Just remember Justin, there are some people who are beyond saving. These people you should guide. Oh, and this forum is full of them.

Hey, it was merely an observation from years of P38a mechanicing. Haven't seen too many where they have been anywhere remotely approaching a good buy, except for their amazing driveability and class, which is a huge thing in their favour. Way before their time but now approaching a use by date for most I'm sorry to say.

I'd be more excited about seeing another classic Merc for sale:)

Just a 2.5c Observation

JC

[Mick_Marsh]

Hey, it was merely an observation from years of P38a mechanicing. Haven't seen too many where they have been anywhere remotely approaching a good buy, except for their amazing driveability and class, which is a huge thing in their favour. Way before their time but now approaching a use by date for most I'm sorry to say.

I'd be more excited about seeing another classic Merc for sale:)

Just a 2.5c Observation

JC
Mercedes-benz 300 SEL 6.3 (1971) 4D Sedan 3 SP Automatic (6.3L - Fuel Injected) | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mercedes-benz-300-SEL-6-3-1971-4D-Sedan-3-SP-Automatic-6-3L-Fuel-Injected-/290715068469?pt=AU_Cars&hash=item43aff7e835)


Mercedes Benz 300SEL 6.3 Litre | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mercedes-Benz-300SEL-6-3-Litre-/261030113870?pt=AU_Cars&hash=item3cc69b724e)

Bit more than 2.5c worth there.
What would you suggest I do, buy the P38 or buy the Benz? Both lead to rack and ruin. One may be a shorter journey than the other.

[justinc]

Mercedes-benz 300 SEL 6.3 (1971) 4D Sedan 3 SP Automatic (6.3L - Fuel Injected) | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mercedes-benz-300-SEL-6-3-1971-4D-Sedan-3-SP-Automatic-6-3L-Fuel-Injected-/290715068469?pt=AU_Cars&hash=item43aff7e835)


Mercedes Benz 300SEL 6.3 Litre | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mercedes-Benz-300SEL-6-3-Litre-/261030113870?pt=AU_Cars&hash=item3cc69b724e)

Bit more than 2.5c worth there.
What would you suggest I do, buy the P38 or buy the Benz? Both lead to rack and ruin. One may be a shorter journey than the other.

Forget the P38, Go the 1970 (second one) they are my favourite series, a few changes to later styling but keeps that early feel a plus is that glorious engine :cool: I don't care what anyone says compared to early european vehicles such as those Mercs the P38a will never reach that classic status.

JC

[Mick_Marsh]

The blue one reads well. Look excellent too. I'd like to have.

The grey looks very nice. I'd like to have.

Nowhere to put them though. They would need to be kept under cover.

Mine.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=33623&d=1298281580

[gavinwibrow]

Forget the P38, Go the 1970 (second one) they are my favourite series, a few changes to later styling but keeps that early feel a plus is that glorious engine :cool: I don't care what anyone says compared to early european vehicles such as those Mercs the P38a will never reach that classic status.

JC
I had one many years ago - the ex Warren Anderson car. Great for giving Falcon GT's a scare. Absolute beauty to cruise with.

[RR P38]

Dont listen to the Nay sayers.
But only if you dont mind doing some work your self.
Any efforts put into your 38 are well rewarded.
I bought an 01 TD5 Disco to replace my 38 two years ago it was a nightmare to work on and i had more faults with it in 6 months than i had with the 38 in 10 years!
The Disco was a better CAR but the 38 has got the X factor, a mate of mine says it has something to do with the thickness of the steering wheel???
P38 for the money cant be beat if you like to drive a lot they eat up the highway and are not too shabby off road either.

[Marshall]

Hi Mick,
I've had a '77 S3, Disco 2, Def 130 and now a P38. So far, the P38 has been the best of them all... It doesn't cost a shed load to keep up and going or even to repair. (unless you get "original" LR parts... I get my parts from fleabay UK at about 1/4 of the price here, but that's another thread!)
Things to look for are:
Service history. ALWAYS service history!
If you see a "Check book" symbol on the Hevac display, take it to a stealer to plug into diagnostics (someone here may even be able to help) as it may be a simple fix, but it may be a $1000 fix. Either way, get it checked.
If the roof lining is sagging, as they do, use this as a bargaining point. In all reality, with a couple hours of your time removing it taking it to a trim shop and putting it back, will cost under $300.
Try to get a post 99 model. These had the "Thor" motor Bosch electrics which are arguably better...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/893.jpg




Pop your hood. Do you see a rectangular plenum chamber with '4.0' or '4.6' embossed on the center of your engine? If so, you have a GEMS engine. BOSCH engines will have a collection of tubes in center and no such label. (Thor)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/892.jpg




Either way, they are great and absolutely in another class. Well worth it I say!

[33chinacars]

Go on you know you want to :wasntme::angel:

Gary

[Mick_Marsh]

Go on you know you want to :wasntme::angel:

Gary
Of course I want to. I want to buy just about every car I see for sale.
I would love to have a P38 but I don't want one resembling a yellow citrus fruit (and I'm not talking about grapefruit).

[Aussie]

JustinC speaketh the truth, Wonderful 4wd's but way past their expiry date.

[justinc]

JustinC speaketh the truth, Wonderful 4wd's but way past their expiry date.

Just so I don't get branded a 'naysayer' in the worst sense, I work on quite a few of these, and IF I WAS QUITE PREPARED TO, only a few of these could finance my children in private education , all the while causing the owners grief and anxiety. But I like to sleep at night. There are a few where the owners have wanted to spend a motsa, and are happy to do so even after going through it in fine detail, but in the end it was their informed choice to do so and they are happy with their decision, and I'm happy that they are happy:).

I love driving them, I love their concept and their world beating design, BUT all good things must come to an end. That is the ONLY reason I don't have one myself.

JC

[parasnoop67]

Justin, I have one of these terrible vehicles and love using it both on road and in the bush. No way would I own one if all repairs had to be done by others but much can be done by loving owners.
Five years and 110000k's hasn't caused me too much grief but I do practice preventative maintainance.
In the bush, and on club trips, it has always at least kept up with the others. You are probably correct about use by date, due to the complex electricals which can cause problems. The eas shouldn't be the hassle that it is, as mostly it is easily fixed, and problems there can at least be kept at bay with a manual air recovery system fitted. Hopefully mine keeps on for a while yet, its only done 270000. lol

John

[justinc]

Justin, I have one of these terrible vehicles and love using it both on road and in the bush. No way would I own one if all repairs had to be done by others but much can be done by loving owners.
Five years and 110000k's hasn't caused me too much grief but I do practice preventative maintainance.
In the bush, and on club trips, it has always at least kept up with the others. You are probably correct about use by date, due to the complex electricals which can cause problems. The eas shouldn't be the hassle that it is, as mostly it is easily fixed, and problems there can at least be kept at bay with a manual air recovery system fitted. Hopefully mine keeps on for a while yet, its only done 270000. lol

John

Hey John, hope you are going well, yes YOURS (and your young blokes one too,) are pretty good actually. I think you would agree though if you were to do NOTHING to your vehicle at all and pay me to do it all, the driveway would perhaps look a little empty by now:o

I think that owners like yourself are really embracing the vehicle and its capabilities, (which to anyone who hasn't driven one on and offroad, are amazing), and thats what makes the world go round.

Life is too short to not enjoy the vehicle you have, or we'd all be driving commodores or falcons:(

JC

[Mick_Marsh]

Hey John, hope you are going well, yes YOURS (and your young blokes one too,) are pretty good actually. I think you would agree though if you were to do NOTHING to your vehicle at all and pay me to do it all, the driveway would perhaps look a little empty by now:o

I think that owners like yourself are really embracing the vehicle and its capabilities, (which to anyone who hasn't driven one on and offroad, are amazing), and thats what makes the world go round.

Life is too short to not enjoy the vehicle you have, or we'd all be driving commodores or falcons:(

JC
So, is this the point I should confess. I do drive a Commodore. I think it is the best car I have ever had. It is 400,000km plus and still going strong but I am always on the lookout for it's replacement, hence, the questions on the P38.

[whisky_mac]

Just do it Mick, you know you want to. Like the rest of us, we did it and we are just whating to be hanged or shot by the stealers.

[DT-P38]

JustinC speaketh the truth, Wonderful 4wd's but way past their expiry date.

Wrong.

If that were the case, true enthusiasts would not gather here to share their experiences. There are plenty of p38's still going strong and consistently defying the expectations of both their owners and the drivers of lesser marques.

If it were true, they would all just boot off and buy jap crappers and dream about the day they got back into a P38a!

A bit like you hey Aussie!?!

[Aussie]

If it were true, they would all just boot off and buy jap crappers and dream about the day they got back into a P38a!

A bit like you hey Aussie!?!

LOL I've never had any dreams of owning a P38 again. As I said previously wonderful 4wd's but very unreliable and past their use by date. You still have my number Dave, call me if you need a recovery vehicle one day..lol my guess is it wont be long. I'll bring the triton out and you can bask in its back breaking ride home..hehe

[DT-P38]

You know deep down you still want one Aussie... that's why you keep hanging around here trying to kill our joy! I think it's some form of RR separation disorder you have... a common issue when one is tragically seperated from their dearly loved and cherished partners/friends/Rangies.

Anyway, FYI we just recently bought us another LR (County V8) to try and dispatch a piece of soul-less jap machinery (Mrs 105 series LC) from out of the driveway. Hoping for the third LR (101 FC) by the end of the year.

And thanks for the offer, if I need recovery I will take it from anyone... the thing is though, I just don't need it!!! And even if I do, there are always plenty of LR's on the tracks I travel and RACV top cover takes care of just about everything else I can think of outside of that.

I know where there's a nice clean low km's late model going cheap for you.


LOL I've never had any dreams of owning a P38 again. As I said previously wonderful 4wd's but very unreliable and past their use by date. You still have my number Dave, call me if you need a recovery vehicle one day..lol my guess is it wont be long. I'll bring the triton out and you can bask in its back breaking ride home..hehe

[Aussie]

LOL Thanks but no thanks on the Pdirtydate, I would consider a L322 thou :p

[Mick_Marsh]

Stopped and looked at a really nice looking P30 last night.
It was a 1998 with a 4.0 motor and velour interior that looked in really nice condition.
The bum looked as if it was sagging though.
Should I be looking for a 4.0 or a 4.6 and why?

[Hoges]

The 4.0 is generally the "S" model while the 4.6 is the HSE and has "all the fruit" and somewhat more torque/power.

If you can find a good example post mid-1999 however, known as the "Bosch upgrade" -or Thor engine (VIN from XA410482 onwards) try and get that in preference: it gained Bosch motronic EFI and electrics, an upgraded gearbox (ZF4HP24), 4-pins diffs, improved WABCO Brake modulator, 150 AMP Bosch alternator,improved ignition coil setup, improved Crankshaft position sensor design/reliability, and sundry other changes...
cheers

EDIT: It's just an impression I have BUT: the Disco 2 with the V8 option (4.0 litre) is in many ways identical to the P38a in its running gear wrt engine and transmission... yet does not seem to attract the same criticism re. reliability... just an impression as I said .... which raises the issue as to whether the P38 is indeed inherently more unreliable as its reputation implies...or its relability is no worse! I'd welcome some informed comment!!

[parasnoop67]

Quote:
Originally Posted by parasnoop67 View Post
Justin, I have one of these terrible vehicles and love using it both on road and in the bush. No way would I own one if all repairs had to be done by others but much can be done by loving owners.
Five years and 110000k's hasn't caused me too much grief but I do practice preventative maintainance.
In the bush, and on club trips, it has always at least kept up with the others. You are probably correct about use by date, due to the complex electricals which can cause problems. The eas shouldn't be the hassle that it is, as mostly it is easily fixed, and problems there can at least be kept at bay with a manual air recovery system fitted. Hopefully mine keeps on for a while yet, its only done 270000. lol

QUOTE from Justinc
John
Hey John, hope you are going well, yes YOURS (and your young blokes one too,) are pretty good actually. I think you would agree though if you were to do NOTHING to your vehicle at all and pay me to do it all, the driveway would perhaps look a little empty by now
I think that owners like yourself are really embracing the vehicle and its capabilities, (which to anyone who hasn't driven one on and offroad, are amazing), and thats what makes the world go round.



I was on a club trip a couple of weeks ago with all sorts of trucks, 5 Patrols, 2 80series Cruisers a Hi lux, a Jeep and the Rangie.Another Hilux broke a cv and didnt make the start and a GQ Patrol had fuel probs and didn't make it either. First recovery was the Hilux stuck in a hole then both Cruisers slid off a steep hill and had to be recovered by Patrols. Later the Hilux wouldn't go up a slippery patch and needed a tow. The Rangie cruised easily all day and didn't look like getting stuck. That's why I like the vehicle so much, but they need maintainance just like any other brand. But it helps to keep abreast of things and this site really helps with that. Most problems are overcome without too much trouble but the most important part of the dash is the temperature guage.:eek:

[Keithy P38]

Agree totally snoop! They are the quiet achievers.

My story is much the same as yours, patrols, cruisers, etc, all needing snatches or spare cv's on trips, Rangie just needs over 12v and petrol!

Keithy

[FANTOM P38]

Go for it mick, you sound like you've already made up your mind!
By the way that was a deep PUDDLE. Didn't see anyone else try it!
Thats why chicken tracks were created, for all those toyos & MISSans.
Apart from the fact tyhe Rangies are quiet achievers the are soft on old bones!!!

[justinc]

hey just for the record, you won't hear me complain about their capabilities! they would have to be still a world class offroad ride imo.

jc

[Keithy P38]

I totally agree with that! My d-max on road does not compare to my P38 on the dirt in terms of ride quality...

[Robsrod 58]

Yep, had my 2001 for one year now, apart from the odd "alarm fault" or "airbag fault" appearing on the message centre, easy fix, the car has been brilliant. I'm that confident, its coming with me over "big red" next year for a 4week trip, can't wait.
I must agree with the knowledge bank out there, maintenance, maintenance, maintenance and for something different more maintenance. Not expensive, just a bit constant and well worth it as reliability issues become irrelevant.

Rob