What engine? Series III

[AAFitArm]

I've done some research on some available engines, and compiled a list. My question is, what is a good choice, cost isn't a huge issue, I realise I'm going to have to replace almost all of, if not the entire driveline. The SIII current has a Holden 186, which is in need of major repairs, and what seems to be the original trans.

Here is the list:

Nissan TD27
Toyota 3L
Toyota 5L
Hyundai D4BF
Isuzu 4JB1T
Nissan KA24E
Toyota 2H
Holden 186
Nissan YD25DDT
Isuzu 4BD1
Toyota 1KZTE
Nissan TD42
Nissan YD25DDTi Mid Power Commonrail
Nissan ZD30T
Toyota 1HD-T
Ford WEAT
Nissan V9X
Mazda SL
Mitsubishi 4D34T
Hyundai J3
Ford WLAT

I'm liking the Isuzu 4BD1 at the moment, also the TD42 and 1HD-T.

All input appreciated folks!

-Rowan

[Bigbjorn]

You missed the best petrol engine conversion of them all. A Chrysler Hemi 6.

[AAFitArm]

Am trying to stick to diesel engines.

[chazza]

So what is wrong with the Land Rover engines? ;)

[AAFitArm]

All bar one of the engines listed I can source immediately. I guess there's nothing wrong with the LR engines, do they produce the same power as the 4BD1 at least?

[Slunnie]

I would cull that list down by checking the following:

If the engine and radiator will fit under the bonnet
If the gearbox and transfer are short enough to fit in the space provided by the chassis Xmembers.
If the front and rear transfer case outputs are both on the drivers side.
If it is part time 4WD.

That will knock most of those on the list out.

Then, if you would be happy with that much power and those brakes and steering.

I don't think the 4BD1, TD42 or 1HZ will fit due to space constraints for the gearboxs and the engines for the latter 2. You can carve up the chassis, but where does it end, you can use a stage 1 chassis but then its a different vehicle.

[Bigbjorn]

Am trying to stick to diesel engines.

Ah, a Holden 186 diesel. That should sell well.

[jerryd]

Land Rover 200tdi or 300tdi will drop straight in (few mods) and connect to the original gearbox :)

[Slunnie]

Land Rover 200tdi or 300tdi will drop straight in (few mods) and connect to the original gearbox :)
I would be thinking along the same lines. If you're worried about the gearbox then look at Ashcrofts LT77 to Series transfer case kits.

[Series3 GT]

I reckon the Izuzu 4BD1 and 4BD1T would be an interesting conversion. How well do they go into a series

[isuzurover]

I reckon the Izuzu 4BD1 and 4BD1T would be an interesting conversion. How well do they go into a series

I have thought about fitting a 4BD1T to a series without fitting a Stage 1/ 110 front end.

If you are happy to chop the firewall the engine could be moved back a lot further than in a Stage 1 / 110. Which would also help weight distribution.

In a worst case scenario you would also need a rear-mounted radiator.

[JDNSW]

I reckon the Izuzu 4BD1 and 4BD1T would be an interesting conversion. How well do they go into a series

The 4BD1 was a standard option in late Series 3, and the answer to your question - very well. But that is using a LT95 box and full time 4wd. The Series box will certainly not stand up to it, although the T/C might.

John

[Lotz-A-Landies]

The 4BD1 was a standard option in late Series 3, and the answer to your question - very well. But that is using a LT95 box and full time 4wd. The Series box will certainly not stand up to it, although the T/C might.

JohnBut that was also by moving the front cross member forward, flattening the line of the front and modifying the transmission tunnel.

What I would also like to see with these comparative charts are: The overall length of the engine?
RPM range and peak torque of engine?
Position of the engine mountings?
External fittings that will obstruct original chassis/mountings?
External fittings that will obstruct front axle?
Position and direction of exhaust outlet.
Availability of aftermarket adapters?Then the chart will be useful and actually make sense.

It would also be useful if there were gearbox options and adapter availability included.

[AAFitArm]

The 4BD1 was a standard option in late Series 3, and the answer to your question - very well. But that is using a LT95 box and full time 4wd. The Series box will certainly not stand up to it, although the T/C might.

I figured the gearbox would be up for replacement. May as well replace the transfer case at the same time if I were to go down that road.


What I would also like to see with these comparative charts are:

The overall length of the engine?
RPM range and peak torque of engine?
Position of the engine mountings?
External fittings that will obstruct original chassis/mountings?
External fittings that will obstruct front axle?
Position and direction of exhaust outlet.
Availability of aftermarket adapters?



I shall try to add some of this info in the near future. Unfortunately I don't have anywhere near enough knowledge to fill it all. Perhaps others could chip in?

[isuzurover]

I figured the gearbox would be up for replacement. May as well replace the transfer case at the same time if I were to go down that road. ...

The series landrover bellhousing and gearbox are quite short. It can be difficult to find a replacement the right length - if not you either have to move the engine forward or put up with a gear stick in place of the centre seat.

[Slunnie]

The other factor is what motor did the Landy have from the factory. The 4cyl and the 6cyl were built with a different firewall and gearbox position.

The 6cyl has a recessed firewall so the 6 cylinder motor can fit under the bonnet and the gearbox I'm pretty sure sits further back - all in comparison to the 4 cyl. The Xmembers underneath will be positioned to suit.

This affects the room you have to work with. The Series Landy gearbox is about 700mm from the front of the bellhousing to the back of the handbrake + motor length with fan and radiator, but you will probably find that just about all of these engines have longer gearboxs with transfer cases than the rover so that may still limit the combination that you could put in.

Anyway, I've already posted what to look for.

[AAFitArm]

The series landrover bellhousing and gearbox are quite short. It can be difficult to find a replacement the right length - if not you either have to move the engine forward or put up with a gear stick in place of the centre seat.

What centre seat :p


The other factor is what motor did the Landy have from the factory. The 4cyl and the 6cyl were built with a different firewall and gearbox position

I believe it had the 4 cylinder, will have a look and see tomorrow after work. Would it be on the plates mounted on the firewall?



Also is the updated list for engine specs. Dimensions are proving difficult to find.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I figured the gearbox would be up for replacement. May as well replace the transfer case at the same time if I were to go down that road.



I shall try to add some of this info in the near future. Unfortunately I don't have anywhere near enough knowledge to fill it all. Perhaps others could chip in?Some of the info you need to have photos and lay the measuring stick on the engine. Other info like RPM bands and torque are available from the manufacturer.

Things to look for are the oil filter pointing forward and down at the bottom/front of the engine. Winged sumps. Injector pumps low down on the LHS of the engine or even the RHS. Exhaust manifolds that point down at the LHS chassis rail or RHS prop shaft.

If you can compile a good enough chart I'll make a sticky out of it.

Diana

[Series3 GT]

The 4BD1 is a fair sized engine. There's not many 4L ( close to) 4cyl diesels around. They seem to produce a fair amount of torque but I think the 4BD1T is the one to go for. Or even a 200TDI they just slip straight onto the series bellhousing.

[jakeslouw]

The Nissan TD27 Turbo (Terrano 1) is strong and reliable as a piece of granite.

Power is on par with the 300TDi.

mechanical fuel pump, reacts well to an IC and some pump tweaks etc.

It would be one of my first choices.

[Slunnie]

How much shorter is the 4BD1 to the V8? There cant be too much in it is there?

Here is a guide from my Series II ute. It was a 4cyl chassis with a V8 and Lt95 fitted from a Stage 1.

Body off conversion and LC60 axles into it at the same time.

The 1st and 4th Cross member need to be removed when using a Stage1 nose facia. Thats the big one at the very front and the first big one in the middle that you can see in the pic that had to come out. Thats because the gearbox in the 4 & 6 cyl series landies are so small, the chassis just isn't designed to fit the LT95 - you shift it back and Xmembers have to go. I fitted the gearbox into the standard Stage1 position, it wasn't set further rearward.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/06/1043.jpg


This is what you end up with, with the chassis.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/06/1044.jpg


When I replace the Lt95 with the ZF and LT230 I also took the opportunity to scallop the low crossmember to give the propshaft some clearance. If you have a Military chassis it may already have this done.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/06/1045.jpg

You will need to make engine mounts for it and the gearbox mounts will drill (and crush tube!) into the chassis well. Motor in, body on. You will have to carve up the firewall to make it fit, redo the linkages that pass through where you carve it up too. You will have to remanufacture a new tunnel and cut the floor back also. The transmission where it passes under the seatbox will also have to be cut back by a fair bit to fit the Lt95 - the ZF needed more.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/06/1046.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/06/1047.jpg


If you set the gearbox further rearward to make the 4BD1 fit behind a recessed facia then all of the cutting gets bigger and I suspect the resheeting mor complex, the Xmember under the front prop I think will also be interesting short of removing it too - not sure what will hold the chassis together after that though. I did remake another front Xmember though in the position of the Stage1 Xmember.

Anyway.... with the conversions with these motors selected, you don't just move things and drop them in. You need to have your information together before you start so you know what you're in for. This also didn't go into the details of all of the fiddly stuff like fuel tanks, pumps, coolers, radiator hoses, interference with other parts, making space for exhausts, mounting inlet systems and filters etc.

[mick88]

What do you intend doing with the vehicle?
What gearbox/transfer case do you intend using?
Are you going to make up adaptor plates for the motor you choose?

Cheers, Mick.


Nissan TD27
Toyota 3L
Toyota 5L
Hyundai D4BF
Isuzu 4JB1T
Nissan KA24E
Toyota 2H
Holden 186
Nissan YD25DDT
Isuzu 4BD1
Toyota 1KZTE
Nissan TD42
Nissan YD25DDTi Mid Power Commonrail
Nissan ZD30T
Toyota 1HD-T
Ford WEAT
Nissan V9X
Mazda SL
Mitsubishi 4D34T
Hyundai J3
Ford WLAT

[isuzurover]

How much shorter is the 4BD1 to the V8? There cant be too much in it is there?...

How long is the V8?

A quick measurement says a 4BD1/T is 700 mm from fan to back of head, and about 770 overall. In a 110 you could move the engine back 8" and still have about 2" between the head and the firewall.

Firewall to back of relay crossmember in a IIA is ~800 mm. So a 4BD1T could be squeezed in without chopping the chassis but with LOTS of firewall cutting...

That 110 that the haultech guys built (? and Andrew e now owns?) had/has about half the engine in the cab...

But I suspect you are right - The OP may not realise what he is getting himself into.

[Slunnie]

How long is the V8?

A quick measurement says a 4BD1/T is 700 mm from fan to back of head, and about 770 overall. In a 110 you could move the engine back 8" and still have about 2" between the head and the firewall.

Firewall to back of relay crossmember in a IIA is ~800 mm. So a 4BD1T could be squeezed in without chopping the chassis but with LOTS of firewall cutting...

That 110 that the haultech guys built (? and Andrew e now owns?) had/has about half the engine in the cab...

But I suspect you are right - The OP may not realise what he is getting himself into.
I'm not sure on the length. The old one I gave away and the bonnet has so much crap on it, its a bit of a job to look in there at the moment for the measurements. Sorry. That said, I would have thought the backs of the motors would be in similar spots due to the gearbox location. I think when I did the V8/LT95 to a shorty which had the motor further back that the V8 interfered with the plate that mounts the firewall to keep it vertical - not sure what Haultech did with it, though the 4BD1 wouldn't be such an issue.

Absolutely with the Haultech Defender. Access was quite poor though and the footwell was tiny - I don't think a manual would have worked! Andrew took me for a spin in it - scary where that thing will go and how strong it is!!!!!

Anyway, I don't think much said here that is key has been heard so I'm not going to worry too much.

[AAFitArm]

Thanks for the replies. I probably don't yet fully realise what I'm getting into, but that's okay. There's still plenty to be done before I get to the engine. I had a look at one of the 110's at work that run the non turbo 4BD1. There does seem to be a bit more there than is feasible to cram into the Series III. To make it even long enough, I'd have to move the front end out so there's no recess where the radiator sits. I have the whole weekend to do some work on it so I might take some measurements of the engine bay and trans tunnel.

[Series3 GT]

Thanks for the replies. I probably don't yet fully realise what I'm getting into, but that's okay. There's still plenty to be done before I get to the engine. I had a look at one of the 110's at work that run the non turbo 4BD1. There does seem to be a bit more there than is feasible to cram into the Series III. To make it even long enough, I'd have to move the front end out so there's no recess where the radiator sits. I have the whole weekend to do some work on it so I might take some measurements of the engine bay and trans tunnel.

You could move the grille foward and use a defender or Stage 1 bonnet

[jerryd]

I've seen two series land rovers for sale that had the 4BD1 fitted, both retained the original gearstick positions, both had the original front bodywork with no alterations done, and both needed new clutches :confused:

I'm not sure if they had series gearboxes or the nissan gearbox mated to the land rover transfer box.

I think if you move the grille forward and fit a defender bonnet, why not buy an Isuzu County and save yourself a lot of work.

[Series3 GT]

I think if you move the grille forward and fit a defender bonnet, why not buy an Isuzu County and save yourself a lot of work.[/QUOTE]

It would lose some of it's series-ness but it's a good point but also getting hold of a 4BD1 County can be difficult compared to getting a series.

[jakeslouw]

I think that if you fit a nice 2.5L to 3.0L Jap turbo-diesel then you won't need to fiddle with the radiator panel. They are probably close to the same length as the Leyland/LR 2.25.

Some of the Jap 4x4's also had offset rear diff centers, so you could even use the gearbox and transfer box from something like a Nissan Safari (early 160 MQ/MK Patrol) and the Nissan TD27 fits the SD33 and L28 bellhousing bolt pattern.

[Slunnie]

I think that if you fit a nice 2.5L to 3.0L Jap turbo-diesel then you won't need to fiddle with the radiator panel. They are probably close to the same length as the Leyland/LR 2.25.

Some of the Jap 4x4's also had offset rear diff centers, so you could even use the gearbox and transfer box from something like a Nissan Safari (early 160 MQ/MK Patrol) and the Nissan TD27 fits the SD33 and L28 bellhousing bolt pattern.

Even though 4 cyl engines are reasonably similar in size, I'd imagine that has quite a long transmission in comparison, especially due to the divorsed transfer setup that the MQ/MK use, and that would be interesting with the propshafts, in particular with clearance.

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

I was given this list of diesel motors for a Series III Land Rovers from a mechanic who had a Land Rover repair business, it might be of some help...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
G'day Lionel,

The best replacement for a Land Rover diesel is a Land Rover diesel! It truly is that simple. Here is a list of options,

2.25lt diesel will bolt straight in but hard to find and a little on the slow side, can be turboed but really needs to be the five bearing block in order to get the longevity out of it.

Isuzu
1. 4BB1, good conversion but hard to find.
2. 4BD1, good conversion but hard to find.
3. 4BD1-T, turbo version, good conversion but hard to find.

Land Rover
200Tdi, bolt straight in, hard to find but you get a turbo
300Tdi, fiddly to fit but will, easy to find and you get a turbo

Nissan
ED23, not easy to fit but will, shouldn’t be too difficult to find

Toyota
L-Series, not easy to fit but will, shouldn’t be too difficult to find, turbo and non-turbo versions available
Toyota B-Series, not easy to fit but will, unsure of availability

Nissan SD33, run away, run quickly, scream loudly!

Regards Jack

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh and my second Land Rover I bought has a Nissan SD 33 in it and the first Land Rover I bought was off Jack, who is the bloke who provided me with this list. No I did not have this list of alternatives before I bought my second ute!

I hope this list is of some help and does not add further to your dilemma

Kind Regards
Lionel

[isuzurover]

Hello All,

I was given this list of diesel motors for a Series III Land Rovers from a mechanic who had a Land Rover repair business, it might be of some help...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
G'day Lionel,

The best replacement for a Land Rover diesel is a Land Rover diesel! It truly is that simple. Here is a list of options,

2.25lt diesel will bolt straight in but hard to find and a little on the slow side, can be turboed but really needs to be the five bearing block in order to get the longevity out of it.

Isuzu
1. 4BB1, good conversion but hard to find.
2. 4BD1, good conversion but hard to find.
3. 4BD1-T, turbo version, good conversion but hard to find.

Land Rover
200Tdi, bolt straight in, hard to find but you get a turbo
300Tdi, fiddly to fit but will, easy to find and you get a turbo

Nissan
ED23, not easy to fit but will, shouldn’t be too difficult to find

Toyota
L-Series, not easy to fit but will, shouldn’t be too difficult to find, turbo and non-turbo versions available
Toyota B-Series, not easy to fit but will, unsure of availability

Nissan SD33, run away, run quickly, scream loudly!

Regards Jack

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh and my second Land Rover I bought has a Nissan SD 33 in it and the first Land Rover I bought was off Jack, who is the bloke who provided me with this list. No I did not have this list of alternatives before I bought my second ute!

I hope this list is of some help and does not add further to your dilemma

Kind Regards
Lionel

No mention there of the 4JB1T and 4JG2T. Both easy to find and easy to fit using adaptor kits from the UK.

And to correct your statement, there are much better and more reliable replacement options than LR diesels. The Td5 is the strongest diesel engine LR have made, and it has also been missed out from the above list.

[jakeslouw]

No mention there of the 4JB1T and 4JG2T. Both easy to find and easy to fit using adaptor kits from the UK.



CORRECT. Both are cheap, easy to find, and have nice simple mechanical injector pumps with boost compensators.

The UK adapter kits are around BP350 if I recall correctly.

Very high on my list for my Defender diesel conversion.

[Lionelgee]

No mention there of the 4JB1T and 4JG2T. Both easy to find and easy to fit using adaptor kits from the UK.

And to correct your statement, there are much better and more reliable replacement options than LR diesels. The Td5 is the strongest diesel engine LR have made, and it has also been missed out from the above list.

G'day Isuzurover,

It was a list given to me by a person who knows a lot more about Land Rovers than I do (which is not much) and the list was given as the mechanic's own opinion. It is not exhaustive but could and did add suggestions into the mix.

It is something which you have now contributed to as well. All the bits can be added up and will provide a more thorough picture.

There are also options like the Mercedes Diesel that the American engineer has pioneered and there is a long thread about on the internet. Until the bloke had enough of arm chair experts and he pulled the pin on contributing. He still makes the conversion.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Lionelgee]

Hello All

I found the link I had to the conversion of a 6 cylinder petrol into a Mercedes OM617 that was done by Robert Davis A.K.A. posts by (rdavisinva). The thread is pages long and took me hours to read. Then at the last message just as the conversion was about to be finished Mr Davis - quite rightly pulled the pin as the thread descended into personal attacks. Despite the untimely end to this thread it still has lots of step by step information about the conversion and it was completed into a final product which is available - in the US of A that is. I revisited the site and found the original thread still works ... http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php't=852955&highlight=om617+land+rover (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php't=852955&highlight=om617+land+rover) The contributions by rdavisinva start on page 5 of 23. The vehicles featured are Series III 109 and some Discos.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Series3 GT]

No mention there of the 4JB1T and 4JG2T. Both easy to find and easy to fit using adaptor kits from the UK.

What were the 4JB1T and 4JG2T, what were they fitted to and what capacity are they?

[Lionelgee]

What were the 4JB1T and 4JG2T, what were they fitted to and what capacity are they?

Hello Series 3 GT,

I did a quick internet search and found some mentions of the two engines - this is not an exhaustive search ...

The 4JH1 is a 3.0 L direct injection engine; turbo intercooled which replaced the 4JB1T in the Faster/Rodeo pickups. This vehicle was sold as the Holden Rodeo in New Zealand and Australia. Accessed Wednesday, June 13, 2012 from Wikipedia under a the search of List of Isuzu engines.

The 4JG2T is from the Holden Jackaroo/Isuzu Moo 4JG2T Accessed Wednesday, June 13, 2012 from Holden Jackaroo/Isuzu Moo 4JG2T (94UT) IHI VICD - Turbochargers OEM, Holden - MTQ Sonic - Sonic Performance (http://www.sonicperformance.com.au/VD430024/Holden-Jackaroo_or_Isuzu-Moo-4JG2T-(94UT)-IHI-VICD/pd.php)

These engines are also fitted to other vehicles in Australia - not sure of the capacity of the 4JG2T - I found one mention of 3.1 Litres (?). I have no connections to any company or reference referred to in this thread either.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[isuzurover]

What were the 4JB1T and 4JG2T, what were they fitted to and what capacity are they?

2.8L and 3.1L

Fitted to holden jackaroos and rodeos, (so millions of them around) as well as isuzu trucks and 2nd hand imports like MUs.

[AAFitArm]

Great replies guys, cheers.

Short of emailing the manufacturers, I can't seem to find much more information on the mounting templates and engine sizes.

Also Lionel, what's with the referencing of the webpages. I don't think I've EVER seen that on a forum!

Will keep looking and trying to find answers.

[Lionelgee]

Great replies guys, cheers.

Short of emailing the manufacturers, I can't seem to find much more information on the mounting templates and engine sizes.

Also Lionel, what's with the referencing of the webpages. I don't think I've EVER seen that on a forum!

Will keep looking and trying to find answers.

Hello AAFitArm,

I can't help it as it is an occupational hazard - I am a researcher. :)

Kind Regards
Lionel

[AAFitArm]

Fair enough, that explains it!

[Series3 GT]

Thanks for clearing that up about the two izuzu engines. I had a sneaking suspicion it would be from the Rodeo and Jackaroo when it said they were common engines and easy to get a hold of.