master cylinder

[Natt]

Morning all
My clutch seems to be playing up of late, sometimes when pressed the clutch down to the floor the 130 still wants to move foward, most times it feels fine, What i did notice is a bit of oil on the mat inside the cab, Would it be safe to say its the master cylinder that has gone on me? I did have to top up the oil twice, no leaks in the engine department side of things, Is this a straight foward fix? Or is there something else i should be looking at?

also its a 2005 130 defender

Thanks
Natt

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Very very rarely will you see a master cylinder leak into the engine bay. 99.999% of the time it drips into the footwell.

If you have oil dripping down there then the oil seals have / are letting go and it will need fixing.

You have 3 options:
1. Get a repair kit and put new seals in your cylinder;
2. Get a 3rd party replacement cylinder
3. Get a genuine / OEM replacement

For me, having done all of the above over the years, I'd always go for an OEM unit now as all others fail prematurely. They are more expensive, but do a job once is now my thing. Older, wiser & can't be ar*ed doing it more than once if I don't have to!!

Of course, the fourth option is to keep topping it up with oil and practice changing gear without a clutch😄

Jon

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[Yorkshire_Jon]

Also, from memory the manual says you have to take the pedal box out, you don't - it will come out on its own, you may just swear a little more!

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[Natt]

Thanks for the quick reply Jon, so you would think the ones on Ebay is not worth getting?
Cheers
Natt

[lewy]

is there a brake booster in between the firewall and master cyl on the defender if so it may have filled the booster with fluid as well

[Yorkshire_Jon]

is there a brake booster in between the firewall and master cyl on the defender if so it may have filled the booster with fluid as well

Hi Lewy, how's tricks? Long time no speak!

No booster on defender. Just muscly legs!!!

Jon

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[Yorkshire_Jon]

Thanks for the quick reply Jon, so you would think the ones on Ebay is not worth getting?
Cheers
Natt

If they are specifically noted as original equipment then yes, otherwise (for me anyway) no.

Suggest you have a word with someone like British motor Imports (Sydney) for OE local prices and perhaps also checkout Lrdirect.com (UK), they list all the different manufacturers and give prices, they also tell you if they are OE or pattern parts.

HTH
J

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[rainman]

Also, from memory the manual says you have to take the pedal box out, you don't - it will come out on its own, you may just swear a little more!

Having done it both ways, I recommend leaving the box in and just removing the cylinder. A ratchet spanner helps - 7/16" from memory.

James.

[rainman]

No booster on defender. Just muscly legs!!!

Really Jon? Both my Tdi's have them.

If you do have one, and it's the master cylinder leaking, it's unlikely you'll have fluid in there. In my experience it just runs into the footwell.

James.

[harro]

Really Jon? Both my Tdi's have them.

If you do have one, and it's the master cylinder leaking, it's unlikely you'll have fluid in there. In my experience it just runs into the footwell.

James.


James, I have never seen a booster on a defender clutch but I believe there are aftermarket ones available.
You may be referring to the brake booster?

Edited; Sorry James, having reread the thread, the question was about the brake booster and I think Jon may be referring to the clutch.

Cheers,
Paul.

[rainman]

James, I have never seen a booster on a defender clutch but I believe there are aftermarket ones available.
You may be referring to the brake booster?

Cheers,
Paul.

Ah yeah! I'm an idiot. I really should concentrate on work and leave the forum for later :(.

Sorry!

[samuelclarke]

As others have said it does sound like the clutch master cylinder. A fairly easy fit, it just takes time and is fiddly. If it's been leaking I'd suggest removing the pedal box as well...brake fluid strips paint like nothing else...clean it up and give it a coat of paint. :)

[halfpenny]

Did the job not so long ago. Now have a special little tool that makes life much easier. Pat applied for sorry. Also suggest that on refit replace the nut nearest the firewall with a nut and spring washer instead of the nylon. Makes getting it off next time that much easier.
Have fun.

[gromit]

Another option is to fit a master cylinder that has already been stainless steel sleeved.
Source a cheapy (you will have to keep your pushrod because the cheap replacements are always from trailer brakes). Send it away to get sleeved with stainless steel. Fit & hopefully forget.

Did my 300Tdi on my own without removing the pedal box. Would have been helpful if someone was in the footwell holding a spanner on the nut halfpenny mentioned.

Someone told me years ago....
Series - remove the pedal box, it's easy.
Defender - do it in situ because the sound deadening mats etc are a pain to remove & refit.

Fred Smith Automotive in Bayswater, VIC keeps the master cylinder in stock already sleeved (03) 9720 4999


Colin

[loanrangie]

Another option is to fit a master cylinder that has already been stainless steel sleeved.
Source a cheapy (you will have to keep your pushrod because the cheap replacements are always from trailer brakes). Send it away to get sleeved with stainless steel. Fit & hopefully forget.

Did my 300Tdi on my own without removing the pedal box. Would have been helpful if someone was in the footwell holding a spanner on the nut halfpenny mentioned.

Someone told me years ago....
Series - remove the pedal box, it's easy.
Defender - do it in situ because the sound deadening mats etc are a pain to remove & refit.

Fred Smith Automotive in Bayswater, VIC keeps the master cylinder in stock already sleeved (03) 9720 4999


Colin


Re sleeve and a seal kit is the way to go unless you price one from the UK and can wait for it.

[lewy]

woops my bad,must learn to read.

[Natt]

Thank you all for the advice, Not in a great deal of hurry ATM so will spend some time on sourceing one out

Cheers
Natt

[DEFENDERZOOK]

I did mine beginning of the year........I found it easier to undo the whole pedal box and pull it all out as one unit......pedal and all......
Then replace the master whilst the whole assembly is on the bench......





And if you take the top cover off the pedal box......I think you can get a hand in there with a spanner to hold the bolt whilst you undo the other side with a ratchet......
I did the job on my own.....so I must have managed to hold it somehow......and I couldn't reach around to the footwell from under the bonnet........

[Natt]

Hi all, Picked the new clutch master cylinder up today as the defender seems to be getting worse ;) anyone heard of TRW brand? should i get this S/S sleeved?
cheers
Natt

[gromit]

It might be these guys :-
History | TRW Automotive (http://trw.com/who_we_are/history)

Problem is do they actually make it or do they outsource the manufacture ?
If it's an aluminium body I'd be getting it stainless steel sleeved, do the job once.....


Colin

[grnrvrs]

The local sleeving place recommends bronze v stainless. Is he full of crap? Is one better than the other for resistance to pitting?

[gromit]

The local sleeving place recommends bronze v stainless. Is he full of crap? Is one better than the other for resistance to pitting?

I've only heard of stainless steel sleeving and my brake man, the father-in-law, is somewhere in the outback at the moment.

I guess if you can get thinwall bronze tube in the right size it may be kinder to the piston ?

A quick search on the net throws up lots of hits for lining with brass/bronze.


Colin

[harro]

The local sleeving place recommends bronze v stainless. Is he full of crap? Is one better than the other for resistance to pitting?


Stainless is a lot harder than brass/bronze, so if and when the seal fails and the piston runs off and starts to score the bore a stainless sleeve would IMO be more likely to simply need a kit.
The brass or bronze sleeve may need to be replaced. (Or honed if possible?).
And I know which is cheaper;).

Cheers,
Paul.

[Natt]

Hi AULRO, Well had the chance to change the clutch master cylinder, bit of a pain in the bum:o for me it took 3 hrs to complete, I also found it to be quicker to take the whole brake pedel box out, only 6 bolts:D had to ajust the nuts on the master cylinder rod bit as it was shorter than the OE. there was too much slack in the pedel, all is good now and thanks for all the advice
Cheers
Natt