Kicking Ideas Around - Series 1 Turbo

[101RRS]

Just throwing this out there for comment and discussion.

With the cost of small turbos being quite reasonable and the exhaust system on a series 1 2litre being very basic and easy to get at - how would a turboed 2 litre go?

With the exhaust manifold sticking straight out from the engine a turbo could easily be bolted on and the rest of the exhaust grafted on. Plumbing on the air side would not be difficult and even an intercooler included without too much trouble. Oil supply could be taken from the rear of the engine if it wasn't going to reduce flow to the head.

So would the old 2 litre be up to this - compression ratio is already conveniently low - what other mods to the engine might be needed?

This is one of these things we think of when day dreaming so not a plan - but a thought for discussion.

Cheers

Garry

[shorty943]

Hmmmm, how many main bearings does that engine have, and, is there room for custom 4 bolt rods?

[123rover50]

You talking two litre petrol or two litre diesel?

[Mick-Kelly]

I have a 2 litre petrol sitting here on an engine stand if you want any pictures.

[land864]

Garry

There was s a S1 2 litre diesel out back of a shed in Eltham here some time ago.

I approached a fella about buying it but he had promised it to another landy nut.

Point being , the guy I spoke to was the owners son and both he and dad were fitters and turners. They had made their own turbo some 30 years ago and had fitted it.

It may still be in Eltham at the new owners address that I also know.

If I could get some pics would you be interested?

[101RRS]

You talking two litre petrol or two litre diesel?


I was thinking petrol. Not sure of the exhaust arrangement on a diesel - if basically the same as the petrol - ie straight out the inner guard then why not a diesel as well :)

[ellard]

Hi there

I am not to sure if the engine would or could handle it - honestly I like the idea Keith has done with fitting the 200 TDI engine to a 80"

All the best

Wayne

[Blknight.aus]

the petrol would take a mild boost the problem would be jigging the carby to suit.

[rover-56]

Thought about this for my S3 2.6 a couple of times. Biggest prob would be plumbing the carb. (aircleaner/carb/compressor inlet/compressor outlet/back to inlet manifold.)
Bit of a plumbing nightmare.
I think the engine would take a mild boost ok though, mine did 100K miles with a Weber carb and 4 branch exhaust manifold.:twisted:
Terry

[tangus89]

I looked into it For my 2.6 also, but found that to run the 'draw through' (carb before compressor) setup the turbo would have to be mounted on the intake side to make much of an increase and reduce horrific turbolag.
The only major bonus i could see with this set up is you can use the standard carb.
but there are carbys out there and tutorials to Mod certain carbys to be setup as a 'Blow through'. This way you can run the turbo on a short exhaust manifold and run an intercooler etc. but is a pain in the ass to tune and get the fueling to match the boost. There are some systems that i found that were successfully done like this, but more work than it was worth to me so i stopped looking.

Cheers
Tangus

[101RRS]

Thought about this for my S3 2.6 a couple of times. Biggest prob would be plumbing the carb. (aircleaner/carb/compressor inlet/compressor outlet/back to inlet manifold.)
Bit of a plumbing nightmare.

Terry

I actually thought the plumbing would have been the easy bit.:)

[101RRS]

I looked into it For my 2.6 also, but found that to run the 'draw through' (carb before compressor) setup the turbo would have to be mounted on the intake side to make much of an increase and reduce horrific turbolag.


Thanks - this is the type of information I was looking for - so you think the distance between the turbo back to the carby would be too long and cause considerable turbo lag - I did not think of that.

Looking at the arrangement on my diesel Freelander - even taking the intercooler out of the equation, the intake plumbing is over twice as long as it would be in a series one petrol and it does not suffer much in turbo lag - just allround lack of power but it is a diesel (actually the L series diesel would be a good conversion for a series 1).

So what about the engine internals - are they up to a bit of a boost?

Cheers

Garry

[rover-56]

Well, as Tangus said, if you could set up a 'blow through' carb it would be easier plumbing, but pressurised carbs are a can of worms to make work.
Terry

[rover-56]

The S1 engine, being cross flow design responds quite well to improvements in breathing......

The engine was popular for amateur racing pre war.

Anyone who has driven a S1 would probably have trouble with that concept. :p
Terry

[tangus89]

so you think the distance between the turbo back to the carby would be too long and cause considerable turbo lag - I did not think of that.

Looking at the arrangement on my diesel Freelander - even taking the intercooler out of the equation, the intake plumbing is over twice as long as it would be in a series one petrol and it does not suffer much in turbo lag

Garry

Hey Garry

The S1 2L is similar to the 6 in design as far as i am aware??
intake-over exhaust-side valve? slanted head? I have never worked on one so I'm not sure.

Through my research, with the 'draw through' system you either have the turbo mounted on the exhaust manifold, or intake for a cross flow head.
Both positions have different sources of lag.

Mounted on the exhaust with the carby attached to the turbo, so the fuel/air mix has to travel through the turbo, (which i read somewhere can separate the mixture :eek: , not sure how true that is) then all the way to the intake manifold. Then only after it has started burning the turbo starts to spool up. so you get a moment where the fuelling is too rich and have all kinds of problems. I didnt see one turbo mounted that way, just people discussing it.

Turbo mounted on the intake manifold and the carb attached to it. That solves the fuel getting to the cylinders lag, but then you have a fairly large distance from exhaust mani to turbo (depending how you plumb it), which is another source of lag. Although nowhere near as bad as the exhaust mount :cool:

I hope that is of some help. Try doing a google search on it, there is lots out there.

Cheers
Tangus

[chazza]

Garry,
Get yourself a copy of "Turbocharging & Supercharging" by Alan Allard; ISBN 0-85059-494-4

The book was written in 1982 and contains everything you should wish to know, bearing in mind that modern turbochargers and their accoutrements have come a long way since 1982.

I found a copy on the internet for $10.

Use this search engine Duncan Grinnell-Milne: books by Duncan Grinnell-Milne @ BookFinder.com (http://www.bookfinder.com/author/duncan-grinnell-milne/)

Cheers Charlie

[andy_d110]

One of the members on lrsoc.com has supercharged his 1949 80"


What I are mostly been doin' today..... (http://www.lrsoc.com/forum/index.php'topic=12249)

There is a video to check out on YouTube.

[101RRS]

Now that is a great looking setup.

[Seriestwo]

The first thing you must do is to be realistic, the reason you are turbo charging this engine is not to get huge horse power gains, its just to give it a bit more stick up the hills. If you put too much boost into it then it will destroy the engine and the drive line, so you need to work out what you want and go from there.

So if you decide to turbo charge a vehicle it can be done, but basically it comes down to money and knowledge. If someone has done it before and you can learn from their mistakes then it would be alot easier, but if you are the pioneer then it will take ALOT of time and money, becuase you will be "flying blind".

The best setup IMO would be the blow through the carby, as this is a basic setup of most turbo carby cars. There are issues with the fuel "pre-igniting" and fuel seperating as the turbo heats up and the air flows through it. So to get around this, tuners and carby manufacturers designed a carby that can be postitivly forced and therefore there are many flow through carbys out there and I am sure there would one suitable to adapt to a land rover setup (maybe even a side draft setup to help reduce the space).

Turbo lag will only become an issue if you choose the wrong turbo, turbos these days can spool up very quickly. Something like this Products | Turbochargers (http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/turbocharger) would be ok, but anytihng bigger would have way too much lag. You would need to run an Intercooler as cool air is much better for turbo vehicles, and a "blowoff" valve would definatly be needed to keep the turbo spinning.

But I think the main issue would be spark and timing, not so much the actual plumbing and of the system. You will need a rather large spark and the timing spot on to prevent detonation and other turbo related issues.

Then finally you will need to take it somewhere to get tuned as most average Joes dont know what they are doing, and its best to check the AFRs while tuning as you dont want it leaning out at higher RPMs.

So I hope this gives you somthing to think about.

Chris