Mining Firms told -- offer jobs to Aussies first

[bob10]

Courier Mail, june 10

" Mining companies will be forced to embrace an Aussie jobs first policy , posting vacancies online before using foreign labour.Today a new section of the Jobsearch website devoted to resource jobs goes live after Unions & Labour MP's raised concerns over Gina Rinehart winning GOV. approval to import 1700 foreign workers for her Roy Hill mining project.Mining recruiters will have to advertise vacancies on the website first before seeking to import foreign labour.. The site is free and employers can advertise vacancies and look for staff at no cost. Immigration Minister, Chris Bowen said ' Companies & Contractors recruiting overseas workers through Enterprise Agreements will be required to use the Jobs Board to demonstrate that suitably qualified Australians are given the first opportunity to apply for jobs.' Workplace Minister Bill Shorten said ' the Gov. understood mining companies concerns that not all of the jobs could be filled by local workers. We are determined to spread the benefits of the mining boom. ' ". I guess the punchline is "experienced workers " , remains to be seen if this is just window dressing. Bob

[tonic]

remains to be seen if this is just window dressing. Bob


Reckon it is Bob, my wife is a mariage celebrant, some years ago she married an aussie couple and the groom worked for BHP teaching Chinese miners how to work in Australia for BHP to set up a labour hire business.

I then asked the head of the the Queensland Chamber of Commerce and Industry how this would go with wages. The response was something like, even though they are from China they have to be paid at our minimum wages even if it is a Chinese labour hire company.

Here is the bit the bloke told me that was the kicker, the minimum wage might be say $60k but we are paying our people in the $100 plus plus K range to drive say dump trucks.

Just because you have to offer the job somewhere first does not mean they get first preference, just first go at applying, it's all in the wording. Sounds good for Labor and the Unions, look what we did, made them advertise here first:toilet:

[Disco44]

Without naming names,it's common knowledge who they are,I ask the question, " which part of these people are Australian" none it would seem as all they are interested in is making their stack of dollars grow.It appears,IMHO,the national interests of their countrymen come a sad last.

[richard4u2]

i live in perth and retired (age) i have a neice in victoria , i was over there a few years back and her 2 boys in thier 20's and single and on the dole so i had a chat with them about the big money the could make up north of wa , nope they would rather stay home on the dole so as far as i am concerned the mining companys can go over seas and employed who ever they wanted

[tonic]

i live in perth and retired (age) i have a neice in victoria , i was over there a few years back and her 2 boys in thier 20's and single and on the dole so i had a chat with them about the big money the could make up north of wa , nope they would rather stay home on the dole so as far as i am concerned the mining companys can go over seas and employed who ever they wanted

Or, go back to the old CES system where they found you a job and if you did not take it or quit you lost your benefits for 6 weeks.

I think the point is Richard that if we let them in then we will loose more than we gain.

There are still lots of people wanting to get in but cant get or afford the tickets due to the over the top OHS bull that these places have.

I am currently a driller and have been to a couple of places under these OHS systems and there is more bad than good.

I think they need to get back to reality of teaching people a job and letting them get on with. This would help a lot with filling the positions.

[Sprint]

biggest steaming load of crap ever, the mining companies are about profits first, everything else later....

[tonic]

biggest steaming load of crap ever, the mining companies are about profits first, everything else later....

You are 100% correct.

They have had enough of Australia in many ways. The Indian financial paper this week even advised not to invest in any new coal mines in Australia.

All our advice is that they are looking to ramp up more in South Africa and South America and pull back in Australai due to our red tape, greenie, OHS etc etc expensive compliance crap.

Like I said, making them advertise first in Australia is only a look good thing for Labor and the Unions, it does not mean our people will get first choice at the interview or whatever you call it stage.

[ramblingboy42]

well I'm starting to get a bit tired of hearing about guys who cant get a job in the mines for whatever reason they proffer. I have told many guys how to go about it, told them which companies are hiring for which type of job, I have sent names, contacts, shotcuts to a lot of guys .....and gals (one has done something and looks like getting a job as dumpy driver) and guess what? Not one person has followed up what I offered....except the forementioned girl.....y'know if you dont get off your arse and do something.....lots of somethings....then nothings going to happen. It's a job, not a holiday, requires a lot of input to reap the rewards. Once the hard yards are done, doors open.Ask anyone who is doing it.

[bob10]

well I'm starting to get a bit tired of hearing about guys who cant get a job in the mines for whatever reason they proffer. I have told many guys how to go about it, told them which companies are hiring for which type of job, I have sent names, contacts, shotcuts to a lot of guys .....and gals (one has done something and looks like getting a job as dumpy driver) and guess what? Not one person has followed up what I offered....except the forementioned girl.....y'know if you dont get off your arse and do something.....lots of somethings....then nothings going to happen. It's a job, not a holiday, requires a lot of input to reap the rewards. Once the hard yards are done, doors open.Ask anyone who is doing it.
The son of a mate of mine got on site with a catering company, in the west, he cleaned toilets, wiped tables, every ****ty job no-one wanted,did that for about 12 months, then was encouraged to apply for a better job , from there he progressed to a big money job. Sometimes I think young people today want to start at the top, and feel they are too good to do menial work, even if it may lead to better things. Just my thoughts. Bob

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

and when the Aussies go to interview they will be knocked back for any reason, who say's it's going to be fair

[Ralph1Malph]

I just don't get it.:unsure:
I don't work for the mining or associated industries so have no bias, but why is the mining industry vilified for not sharing wealth when so many other companies do not either? As I said, I don't get it. We don't treat the supermarket duopoly or petroleum cartels or even the banking industry with as much hatred or suspicion. A previous post alluded to the fact that in a way, the mining industry is a product of our own greed. The ever green chase for higher wages, the incessent chase for improved conditions, the over the top OHS etc etc. Another thread mentioned that mines are now in the market for ANCAP rated cars, what other industry mandates that?
FWIW, I am contemplating leaving the Army and persuing mine work...why?...simply the cash:(. Get on or shut up I say:wasntme:.
I am sure that Gina, Clive, Twiggy etc do not need to work for the rest of thier lives. Would we prefer that they just closed the business (mines). I think not.
Oh, I am in rant territory, time to stop:D:D:D

Ralph

[ramblingboy42]

I agree Ralph, the mine wages have come about as result of the roundabout that takes place in ensueing or placing a position. A certain type of person is finding employment in the mines, different to your average Joe, someone who is teachable and will accept and enforce mining managers operational procedures.It is all about risk management at all levels and the blanket acceptance of policies and procedures designed to extract ore at the lowest price while maintaining the highest standards of personal and production safety methods. It is interesting with the workforce out here that there is never a raised voice in conflict or anger and everybody gets on no matter what level you are at. If you have the slightest glitch about anything someone is there to help you. Funny that In BMA's case they cannot resolve their industrial agreement...but thats another story.

[tonic]

I just don't get it.:unsure:
I don't work for the mining or associated industries so have no bias, but why is the mining industry vilified for not sharing wealth when so many other companies do not either? As I said, I don't get it. We don't treat the supermarket duopoly or petroleum cartels or even the banking industry with as much hatred or suspicion. A previous post alluded to the fact that in a way, the mining industry is a product of our own greed. The ever green chase for higher wages, the incessent chase for improved conditions, the over the top OHS etc etc. Another thread mentioned that mines are now in the market for ANCAP rated cars, what other industry mandates that?
FWIW, I am contemplating leaving the Army and persuing mine work...why?...simply the cash:(. Get on or shut up I say:wasntme:.
I am sure that Gina, Clive, Twiggy etc do not need to work for the rest of thier lives. Would we prefer that they just closed the business (mines). I think not.
Oh, I am in rant territory, time to stop:D:D:D

Ralph

That's right, which is why they are looking at taking investment overseas and out of Australia.

The OHS is forced on them and in turn they must pass it onto their contractors who want to work there.

EG, An engineering firm on the Gold Coast had to trade in 30 plus near new utes because the rules were changed and the utes did not have enough air bags. There are tones of examples like this.

A mate works for Orica as a shot firer. At one mine he was at they closed it down for 3 days because someone spilt milk on a smoko room floor, so everyone needed to do a course on the dangers of the spill before the mine could restart. Tell me what company would want to stay in Australia and have to lose 3 days production because of spilt milk.

Overseas workers complain less and cost less, what would you do.

[bob10]

[QUOTE=tonic;1700199. There are tones of examples like this.

A mate works for Orica as a shot firer. At one mine he was at they closed it down for 3 days because someone spilt milk on a smoko room floor, so everyone needed to do a course on the dangers of the spill before the mine could restart. Tell me what company would want to stay in Australia and have to lose 3 days production because of spilt milk.

Overseas workers complain less and cost less, what would you do.[/QUOTE]
OK, that is absolute bull****! just spoke to my inlaw who has worked in the mines for 25 years, and what he said I can not repeat. Bob

[DiscoMick]

Not sure what it means, but I applied for one mining job and was quite prepared to go off and work my bum off for a few years to fund my retirement, but didn't even get a chance because of lack of specific experience on that particular machinery, even though I'm sure I could have trained up for the job pretty quickly because I've done similar work elsewhere on different machinery.

[tonic]

OK, that is absolute bull****! just spoke to my inlaw who has worked in the mines for 25 years, and what he said I can not repeat. Bob


Whatever, my mates who work there must be xxxxhead liers then hey.

[jocky]

The son of a mate of mine got on site with a catering company, in the west, he cleaned toilets, wiped tables, every ****ty job no-one wanted,did that for about 12 months, then was encouraged to apply for a better job , from there he progressed to a big money job. Sometimes I think young people today want to start at the top, and feel they are too good to do menial work, even if it may lead to better things. Just my thoughts. Bob
Spot on Bob.

[Bigbjorn]

Or, go back to the old CES system where they found you a job and if you did not take it or quit you lost your benefits for 6 weeks.

.

Not quite right. An employer could list a vacancy with the CES. The vacancy had to meet certain criteria to be accepted as suitable employment. Fair award wage, reasonable hours, etc. As an example the CES would not list taxi driving jobs. The CES would sort out usually six clients who were likely to be acceptable and send them to the employer for interview. Then another six if none suitable.

If the employer offered the job to an applicant and the applicant refused the appointment then their benefit could be cancelled or suspended for a period of time determined by the number of any previous breaches. The CES client had appeal rights. Employers often speak with forked tongue as to wages, hours, conditions etc.

One regular listing was a job as toolsetter at a repetition engineering shop. The employer always told the CES the right things as to award wages etc. His idea of award wage was to pay day shift rates for night shift, expect the setter to stay on to hand over to the incoming shift and never paid overtime. Consequently there was a revolving door at the shop. I asked a CES employment officer why they continued to list the ongoing vacancy and was told that "he tells us all the right things so we have to accept the vacancy even though we know well what sort of a tightass he is".

[BMKal]

EG, An engineering firm on the Gold Coast had to trade in 30 plus near new utes because the rules were changed and the utes did not have enough air bags. There are tones of examples like this.

Yes - BHP did the same in the Goldfields. End result was that the contractors told them to get stuffed and continued to work on the many other mines who did not bring in this rule. BHP ended up having to hire vehicles for the contractors that they needed to keep their plant running. There are still many contractors in the area that run vehicles without airbags who are making a good living working on other sites - they don't need BHP.

A mate works for Orica as a shot firer. At one mine he was at they closed it down for 3 days because someone spilt milk on a smoko room floor, so everyone needed to do a course on the dangers of the spill before the mine could restart. Tell me what company would want to stay in Australia and have to lose 3 days production because of spilt milk.

I've worked in the mining industry for way longer than I care to remember, and I'll agree with Bob's comment on this one. What a load of crap !!!

Anyone who believes that **** really will believe anything.
Overseas workers complain less and cost less, what would you do.

Don't know what it's like over east in the mines, but I suspect not that much different to here. Believe me, employing overseas workers really is a last resort. We've never had to do it at any of the mines and with any of the companies that I've worked with - and I hope I never see the day. But, for a whole range of reasons, it is rapidly getting harder to fill some positions in Australia. We usually don't have any difficulty finding operators - but I've been chasing an experienced Maintenance Supervisor / Planner for nearly three months now - and so far not a single suitable applicant. And it is definitely getting harder to find good Managers out there - we've seen some beauties come and go lately. Might have university degree - but have never even heard of the term "people skills".

[loanrangie]

Regardless of who gets the jobs, i'd like to know where they think they are going to house these workers ? There is not enough for the aussies that are already there let alone a bunch of scab labourers. Maybe the government should assist locals with housing then they might get some more takers.

[Bigbjorn]

Don't know what it's like over east in the mines, but I suspect not that much different to here. Believe me, employing overseas workers really is a last resort. We've never had to do it at any of the mines and with any of the companies that I've worked with - and I hope I never see the day. But, for a whole range of reasons, it is rapidly getting harder to fill some positions in Australia. We usually don't have any difficulty finding operators - but I've been chasing an experienced Maintenance Supervisor / Planner for nearly three months now - and so far not a single suitable applicant. And it is definitely getting harder to find good Managers out there - we've seen some beauties come and go lately. Might have university degree - but have never even heard of the term "people skills".

Over in the sunrise side of the nation the oft repeated complaint from people applying for jobs in the mining industry is that their application is rejected out of hand as they do not have "industry experience." Many of the applicants have obtained at their own expense, tickets, First Aid & OSHA certificates, etc. They need a start to gain the experience and it is up to the industry to do so.

Now someone has to employ an inexperienced worker so they can gain "industry experience". Likewise I believe the shortage of skilled workers is solely to be blamed on employers whose responsibility it clearly is and has long been to indenture apprentices, offer technicians traineeships, and University scholarships for future professionals. Don't train them? Well suck up the consequent shortage and pay big heaps to those still in the workforce.

[PAT303]

Regardless of who gets the jobs, i'd like to know where they think they are going to house these workers ? There is not enough for the aussies that are already there let alone a bunch of scab labourers. Maybe the government should assist locals with housing then they might get some more takers.

Sorry mate but ''scab workers''?,the only scab workers are the die hard union blokes we have to put up with.I'll have a bloke from oversea's anyday,at least he'll work hard at work,not work hard getting out of doing work. Pat

[uninformed]

good way to bring down a nation with one swipe of a brush Pat. I work in construction, mostly domestic, but have done my fair share of commerical and industrial. On one big commercial job I was on, the floor/wall tile contractor was employing Korens. The would arrive in a bus, brought from a unit they were staying in down the road, sleeping 6 to a room. They each had 1 meter cut out of a 8meter tape measure and I doubt one of them was a tradesman. Now saftey is ment to be #1, but how can there be any safety when they cant communicate basic english. The work was sub par but passes as per usual.

but hey, not matter the quality of life we have to subcome to,the work standards lowered to or the quality of product produced, as long as it puts money in the right pockets.

Ill ask you this, how many of these guys would have been on study visas? how many would have sent a majority of their income home?

how is this improving Australia as a whole?

yes their are Aussie bludgers, yes there are Aussies that are sub par at their jobs. I dont support them, but I certainly dont support the above mentioned either.

[uninformed]

well I'm starting to get a bit tired of hearing about guys who cant get a job in the mines for whatever reason they proffer. I have told many guys how to go about it, told them which companies are hiring for which type of job, I have sent names, contacts, shotcuts to a lot of guys .....and gals (one has done something and looks like getting a job as dumpy driver) and guess what? Not one person has followed up what I offered....except the forementioned girl.....y'know if you dont get off your arse and do something.....lots of somethings....then nothings going to happen. It's a job, not a holiday, requires a lot of input to reap the rewards. Once the hard yards are done, doors open.Ask anyone who is doing it.

please PM me details. I am a licensed carpenter/joiner. I would be interested in all most any job. I doubt I could go underground though.

cheers,
Serg

[Bigbjorn]

Sorry mate but ''scab workers''?,the only scab workers are the die hard union blokes we have to put up with.I'll have a bloke from oversea's anyday,at least he'll work hard at work,not work hard getting out of doing work. Pat

A scab is a non umion worker working alongside union members or taking the job that should be done by a member. If the cap fits wear it.

[BBC]

Over in the sunrise side of the nation the oft repeated complaint from people applying for jobs in the mining industry is that their application is rejected out of hand as they do not have "industry experience." Many of the applicants have obtained at their own expense, tickets, First Aid & OSHA certificates, etc. They need a start to gain the experience and it is up to the industry to do so.

Now someone has to employ an inexperienced worker so they can gain "industry experience". Likewise I believe the shortage of skilled workers is solely to be blamed on employers whose responsibility it clearly is and has long been to indenture apprentices, offer technicians traineeships, and University scholarships for future professionals. Don't train them? Well suck up the consequent shortage and pay big heaps to those still in the workforce.

Very much agree Brian, they are so very insisting on 2-4yrs worth of mining experience....OK.....where do you get that?.....if you first need 2-4yrs worth of experience?

[boger]

Started applying for jobs 6 to 8 months ago only getting replays now the HR is a nightmare but keep going and you do get there, got a start ;) Bum up and head down for a couple of years or until the gravy train ends:)

[frantic]

I know ive said this before in another thread but it still stands. 457 visa workers are a race to the basic award with remote mines no longer needing to pay the current premium that our miners recieve.
Evidence you ask? There are still a limited number of oz regoed and "manned" ships in work. What happened at a Certain shipping Line and another joint venture by a big aussie and a tee chnical KAYanadian mob demonstrate the potential future for remote workers.
Basically ships got "new" owners promises no pay/condition reductions for hard working specialised self discharge boats crews but then 3 years later new award rolls around and only offering basic award wages, nothing extra for skills and duties real pay cut by 30k+. ...... End result majority of aussie crews moved on to easier ships or shore based jobs with similar pay and now the 457 award crews first languages are indian and ukrainian. Now,the discharge takes longer but the owners dont care as the laws state an Oz regoed ship gets priority over a flag of convenience vessel(foreign) So they still get work but pay less to their crews and get no aussies applying or when they do knocking back the job because of the basic pay.
Lets compare the similarities. both isolated jobs with long time away from home, both dirty hard work, both require specialised skills.
The main difference MUA greatly annoyed Johnny so this was a way to get back at them. but as you now have a precedent set with the shipping lines it is easier for gina, bhp, rio, fortescue etc to bring in 457 to man up.

[Ratel10mm]

Re Bob10's comment about starting at the top. Try getting most apprentices to carry the tools, tidy up or get the teas in. :rolleyes:

[rick130]

I just don't get it.:unsure:
I don't work for the mining or associated industries so have no bias, but why is the mining industry vilified for not sharing wealth when so many other companies do not either?
[snip]

Ralph

The big difference is that we, as in all Australians actually own the wealth beneath our feet and the State and Federal Govt's 'lease' it to the miners on our behalf.

That's why the miners pay 'royalties' to the states, and it's what the super profit resource rent tax is about.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

and just to go back a page -

these miners brought in from oversea's wont have to conform to our OH&S reforms?

[PAT303]

A scab is a non umion worker working alongside union members or taking the job that should be done by a member. If the cap fits wear it.

Good point,union members get the job first,nothing like looking after your own eh?.Sorry for taring everyone with the same brush but after two decades working with union workers I have no respect for them at all.The other point is Australian people don't want to work,if you want a job over here go through the labour hire companies not directly through the companies,LH put people in jobs and if you work out you will be employed. Pat

[PAT303]

The big difference is that we, as in all Australians actually own the wealth beneath our feet and the State and Federal Govt's 'lease' it to the miners on our behalf.

That's why the miners pay 'royalties' to the states, and it's what the super profit resource rent tax is about.

The thing people forget Rick is the companies do give us money for the minerals they dig up,the reason more people are travelling out here is because the country has been opened up by the miners,BHP puts alot into the local area's repairing roads etc,many tracks out here were a nightmare to travel on before the miners,I don't see the banks handing out money for upgrading thier area's or giving out grants for local pools,sporting clubs ect.I don't work for the miners but see the benefits everyday. Pat

[sashadidi]

Slightly off Topic but on the same theme,apparently Australian is hunting Foreign soldiers especially from New Zealand as well. If there are 500,00 unemployed why is there a problem, the pay is much better than the NZ army.

Australia offers NZ soldiers $250k to swap armies - Employment - NZ Herald News (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/employment/news/article.cfm?c_id=11&objectid=10812382)
Quote:

Kiwi soldiers are being head-hunted to join the Australian Army with $250,000 cash bonuses.

The hired guns are getting the lucrative sign-on fee, as well as fast-tracked citizenship, in a bid to boost Australia's military ranks.

[uninformed]

Pat just so we are clear, my comment was not union related. I am NOT a union member. While I feel the concepts for a Union can be sound, very few are well exicuted.....:(

[Piddler]

A scab is a non umion worker working alongside union members or taking the job that should be done by a member. If the cap fits wear it.

The true meaning of a scab is also someone who crosses the picket line to work when the union workers are on strike over an industrial matter.

[slug_burner]

I just don't get it.:unsure:
I don't work for the mining or associated industries so have no bias, but why is the mining industry vilified for not sharing wealth when so many other companies do not either? As I said, I don't get it. We don't treat the supermarket duopoly or petroleum cartels or even the banking industry with as much hatred or suspicion. A previous post alluded to the fact that in a way, the mining industry is a product of our own greed. The ever green chase for higher wages, the incessent chase for improved conditions, the over the top OHS etc etc. Another thread mentioned that mines are now in the market for ANCAP rated cars, what other industry mandates that?
FWIW, I am contemplating leaving the Army and persuing mine work...why?...simply the cash:(. Get on or shut up I say:wasntme:.
I am sure that Gina, Clive, Twiggy etc do not need to work for the rest of thier lives. Would we prefer that they just closed the business (mines). I think not.
Oh, I am in rant territory, time to stop:D:D:D

Ralph

Sharing wealth or just getting a reasonable return for the non renewable resources they are pulling out of the ground that belong to the whole of the nation?

[BMKal]

Over in the sunrise side of the nation the oft repeated complaint from people applying for jobs in the mining industry is that their application is rejected out of hand as they do not have "industry experience." Many of the applicants have obtained at their own expense, tickets, First Aid & OSHA certificates, etc. They need a start to gain the experience and it is up to the industry to do so.

Now someone has to employ an inexperienced worker so they can gain "industry experience". Likewise I believe the shortage of skilled workers is solely to be blamed on employers whose responsibility it clearly is and has long been to indenture apprentices, offer technicians traineeships, and University scholarships for future professionals. Don't train them? Well suck up the consequent shortage and pay big heaps to those still in the workforce.

The other side of the coin is - you can only take on so many trainees or inexperienced people - otherwise the job simply will not run. Yes - I agree that the consequence of not training new people into the job are that you have to pay increasingly more for the few experienced who are left in the market.

The minesite that I'm working with at the moment recruits plenty of inexperienced people - in the area that I am responsible for, about 50% of the current workforce have never worked in the industry before, and come from quite a broad range of backgrounds, from farmers to a male psych nurse. We only insist on experience in critical roles, such as supervisors and the maintenance planner role that we are trying to fill at the moment. But we also have to make sure that at least half of the people on each crew are experienced operators - otherwise you will end up with some pretty serious accidents. I also won't employ anyone who can't read and understand english, at least sufficiently to be able to read and understand procedures and safety warnings / instructions. If that's discrimination - stiff.

Rio Tinto currently has a massive advertising campaign going looking for 6,000 new workers for their Pilbara operations. They certainly aren't specifying past mining industry experience, except for in certain roles where you really can't get away without it. This campaign has been advertised on the TV, Radio, in the papers and on the internet. has been going for well over a month now. I was recently at a bar-b-que where I met the wife of one of the blokes from our office - she works in Rio's HR department in a pretty senior position. I asked her what was the response to their advertising campaign so far (and had a friendly dig about them trying to poach workers from us in smaller companies), She told me that more than 75% of the responses received so far were from people already employed in the industry in WA (some were even already Rio employees) - having a sniff to see what was on offer, or to see if the grass is greener so to speak. The response from the eastern states so far ........... very poor was all that she would say.

You can lead a horse to water ....................

[Ratel10mm]

I just had a look. In my case, I really don't know where they'll find a dual tradie with A class sparks & enough Refrig. knowledge to run the Universe. I mean, in refrigeration they're asking for a top line bloke from 4 or 5 different parts of the industry rolled into one.

In vehicle speak it's like asking for a mechanic with several years experience each on cars, buses, HGV's, mine trucks, military vehicles of all sorts including tanks, helicopters & Jets! Then they want you to be a ship's engineer as well!!
I doubt even Blknight.aus could qualify! ;)

I'll ring them anyway, you never know they might take a mere mortal & thank you for the heads up.
:)

[richard4u2]

15 boats in 15 days they would all be looking for work ??

[bushrover]

For those looking for work in the mining industry there are a few things you need to think about-

Your cover letter needs to get the 22 year old HR grad interested enough to read your resume. Just remember they know everything and the fact you have been working longer than they have been alive won't get you past this point.

We attempt to employ the 'right type of person' before considering skill, experience etc, so find out what type of person they are after before you apply. Phone HR, find out who is responsible for filling the position. Get their name and give them yours. After you have applied, phone them to ask if they have your application, ask HR who will ultimately make the employment decision and find a way to phone them. Ask what type of person they are looking for? What skills are required? Finish with a statement like ' Fantastic, that sounds exactly like what I have been looking for, even though I don't have mining experience I certainly have the skills and it sounds like my experience does relate to the position. Thank them for their time. Don't **** in their pocket, be professional, but make sure they know who you are when they start checking resume's.

Safety, safety, safety, safety is number one two three four and five. Do your research and know how to respond to safety related questions.

Your resume needs to focus on getting you an interview not the actual job. The interview will get you the job.

If you get an interview it will probably be over the phone in the first instance so prepare answers for every possible question that could be asked. Write down your answers so you at least have something to refer to when under pressure and taking a little bit of time to respond makes the interviewer think you are presenting a considered answer.

Always, always, always thank them for the opportunity to have a phone interview and let them know you would appreciate the opportunity to answer any questions or concerns they may have that have arisen from the phone interview. If they phone back to ask more questions you are 75% of the way there.

If you get to this stage make yourself available - don't miss the bloody plane if you are flying to a site interview. Most mining companies are very flexible when it comes to arranging site visits, so don't stuff it up. If you get a site visit you know your resume, interview, etc went well. If you don't get the job ask specifically what it was that the successful person had that you didn't.

A couple of facts and figures -

90% of applications are binned because they are crap!!!!!

You have to do the leg work. Don't whine because you haven't received a reply. Annoy the HR person - you already have their name - every week until you get an interview. Get off your arse, do something different, because you are the reason you are not getting the job.

We have 5% unemployment 10% of the population eligible for employment
is unemployable, so we have already employed 5% of the unemployable population. So stop this crap whining about successful people trying to create wealth for this country. When the big players go overseas for employees it is because lazy aussies won't get off their arses and take the menial jobs and work their way up. Or as some here have already pointed out, the dole is their preference.

Worse thing this country has ever done is force kids who don't want to be at school to continue to year twelve and beyond. They either end up being know it alls, or lazy smart arses that only know their rights. Give me a 15 year old apprentice any day over a kid that has been ruined by being at school to long.

That should stir a few people and I am starting to feel better now.....................

Rick

[bob10]

For those looking for work in the mining industry there are a few things you need to think about


Rick
Thanks for that Rick, your post should be studied by any forum member wishing to apply for work in the mining industry. Sound advice, from someone who knows. Bob [ and no I don't want a job, :D]

[Bigbjorn]

The other side of the coin is - you can only take on so many trainees or inexperienced people - otherwise the job simply will not run. Yes - I agree that the consequence of not training new people into the job are that you have to pay increasingly more for the few experienced who are left in the market.

The minesite that I'm working with at the moment recruits plenty of inexperienced people - in the area that I am responsible for, about 50% of the current workforce have never worked in the industry before, and come from quite a broad range of backgrounds, from farmers to a male psych nurse. We only insist on experience in critical roles, such as supervisors and the maintenance planner role that we are trying to fill at the moment. But we also have to make sure that at least half of the people on each crew are experienced operators - otherwise you will end up with some pretty serious accidents. I also won't employ anyone who can't read and understand english, at least sufficiently to be able to read and understand procedures and safety warnings / instructions. If that's discrimination - stiff.

Rio Tinto currently has a massive advertising campaign going looking for 6,000 new workers for their Pilbara operations. They certainly aren't specifying past mining industry experience, except for in certain roles where you really can't get away without it. This campaign has been advertised on the TV, Radio, in the papers and on the internet. has been going for well over a month now. I was recently at a bar-b-que where I met the wife of one of the blokes from our office - she works in Rio's HR department in a pretty senior position. I asked her what was the response to their advertising campaign so far (and had a friendly dig about them trying to poach workers from us in smaller companies), She told me that more than 75% of the responses received so far were from people already employed in the industry in WA (some were even already Rio employees) - having a sniff to see what was on offer, or to see if the grass is greener so to speak. The response from the eastern states so far ........... very poor was all that she would say.

You can lead a horse to water ....................

This item appeared in today's Sunday Mail under the heading of "No jobs in la-la-land".

Mining chief Mike Young says workers wanting to cash in on the mining boom are living in la-la land if they think they can land a lucrative job without experience.

The BC Iron boss, whose company is worth about $260 million, said he was always meeting people who thought they could fly into a mine site with no trade or experience.

In backing the move to fill the skills shortage by bringing in workers from overseas, he said: "People think mining is just this brutish industry where they give you a pick and shovel and off you go"

"People don't quite understand how many skills there are. They don't get it."

So obviously BC Iron has no intention of meeting their obligations to train staff and give them experience.

There are only so many skilled and experienced workers. People retire and die or get fed up with living and working in the icehole of Australia and move on to easier work in better conditions. The pool of experienced workers will reduce and the shortage get greater as time goes on if the industry does not lift its game, assume its responsibilities and train and employ new inexperienced staff.

If this reflects the general industry attitude, then no wonder Rio Tinto is not getting applications from their campaign. The willing applicants have already had their patience and optimism undermined by rejections.

We are going to end up with the scenario from one of Banjo Paterson's poems-

"There were four and twenty chinamen shearing in a row"

[BMKal]

Brian, you're completely missing the point of what Mike Young has said. His main point was "if they think they can land a lucrative job without experience".

Too many people think that they will just be able to walk into a job paying the big bucks when they do not have the relevant experience. The fact is, if you have the knowledge and experience, you get paid the going rate. If you don't have the experience, you have to be prepared to start at the bottom and work your way up the ladder. There are way too many people who want it all handed to them on a silver platter and are not prepared to go through the hard yards to get there.

I didn't read anything in Mike Young's statement that said that "BC Iron has no intention of meeting their obligations to train staff and give them experience" as you have implied. In fact, I can tell you the opposite with a very high degree of certainty. The positions / training / inexperienced workers that I have referred to in previous posts in this thread are ALL on BC Iron's minesite.

There's a huge difference between knowing what you're talking about and just making some assumptions based on a couple of reports in a newspaper. It really cracks me up when Eastern States capital city based "experts" profess to know all about what is going on in the mining industry on the opposite side of the country, when they've never been there and seen the reality of the situation for themselves.

[BMKal]

For those looking for work in the mining industry there are a few things you need to think about-

Your cover letter needs to get the 22 year old HR grad interested enough to read your resume. Just remember they know everything and the fact you have been working longer than they have been alive won't get you past this point.



Ain't that the truth. :thumbsup:

Very accurate post Rick ............. you've covered all the bases perfectly.

[Tombie]

biggest steaming load of crap ever, the mining companies are about profits first, everything else later....

News just in....

ALL Businesses are about profits..... :D Who would have thought!!!!!

My Father and I owned a company for well over two decades - we did our job very well...
Excellent service, great products etc...

When we had made enough 'profits' - the old boy retired...

With a public company - profits = increased share value = better Superannuation for people like yourself (where do you think your Super Funds invest?)

[wrinklearthur]

Your cover letter needs to get the 22 year old HR grad interested enough to read your resume. Just remember they know everything and the fact you have been working longer than they have been alive won't get you past this point.
Rick

Ok, I am sitting at home here in Southern Tasmania and now am going to bare my soul. All of my family lives within a half hour drive from me and they do like to keep in touch by visiting us.
I was forced to stop working for myself three years ago at the age of 57, due to doing more than the Lumbar 5 could stand, I ruptured this part of my back by doing what I thought was the correct thing to do and that was by working hard and long hours (A diligent but misguided work ethic?) .

The consequences of this abrupt end to my working life was a lot of pain and made the financial burden very hard for my wife, but we scrapped by until I got a bee in my bonnet and started going to Uni to lean a new work skill.
Our finances went down hill very quick due to the travelling and I will admit to trying to get help from Centrelink to help me fund my travelling to and from Uni, no good as my wife's income was now above the cutoff point ( which she increased to support both of us by working longer hours ). Forced to postpone my studies, I was now a APITA to all those around me.

As I have now learnt to manage my back pain, the amount of discomfort has diminished to the point I am now looking at doing a job that is not too physically demanding and that would let the wife could ease back her hours as well as she isn't 21 x 2 anymore :angel: .

What to do?
I see this thread about labour issues in the mining areas and wonder how I could go about joining their workforce.
Here I am, now with a poor health record, very little qualifications and on the other side of sixty to top it off.

Qualifications in servicing video tape recorders ( they are nearly all on the tip now), Farm book keeping ( Taught by failed farmers, what hope did I have? ) Artificial insemination of cattle ( Are there any dairy cows in the Pilbara? ), don't really set me up for a job in the mining industry.

Some positives are that, I could treat the getting of a job as another working holiday, of which I have already completed the big lap as a twenty odd year old in my S2A in the early 70's after Gough got in I got out, (was in R.A.E. in Townsville at the time) .
I have a bag full of experience in diary and broad acre farming, electronic repairs and installation of; radio, television, satellite and VSAT broadband.
So driving, animal husbandry, being able to weld, solder, braze, carpentry, concreting, two way radio, electronic fault finding and repairs are all in that bag of skills.

Or is that a bag of chaff ? what good is that bag to the 22 year old HR grad?

Love to go and give another try to being part of the workforce, but it does look like with the amount of youngsters already heading from here, heading west, I am doomed to sit at home being APITA.
.

[BMKal]

Have a bloke with surprisingly similar past work history to yours Arthur (and about the same age too) working as a crusher operator with us at the moment. He's one of the most valuable employees we have - his past experiences and general knowledge enable him to keep things running that many others would just give up on (they just weren't taught what he knows in school / uni or wherever they were educated - and you don't get that sort of experience living in a city all your life).

Don't worry - I'm not far behind you in the age race, and there are plenty of us in the industry who still appreciate the benefits of age and life experience. You might be surprised to know how many people working in the processing side of the mining industry come from a farming background. At least 50% of the crew I work with at the moment have at some time or other been in the farming or related industries. I'm 57 and they call me the old fella on site - but I'm not by any means the oldest there. Quite a few on site who are older than me, some by a good few years too. None of us has been with the company for years - it's a new mine & we're a new company - we've all been employed within only the last 18 months or so. Both of my bosses are many years younger than me.

Unfortunately it's the back problem that will be your biggest issue - and that's not just in the mining industry - it's just about everywhere. Insurance policies these days make it almost impossible to employ people with certain past medical histories - with back injuries being high on the list of nasties. It's no wonder many of us don't entirely tell the truth when we go for a medical. I have to do another medical next week to go up to a job, and I know that there's no way that I'll be telling them everything about my past medical history - and when they ask who my GP is, I always respond that I don't have one - just go to whoever is available when the need arises.

Fortunately in some of the newer and smaller companies (like the one I work for) - we don't always rely on the HR Department to do our recruiting for us. Yes - we have the 20 something HR graduates too - we just get them to place the advertisements and forward all applications to us for review. When we have made a selection we get HR to process them and get them on site. If we were forced to rely on HR for recruiting / selection - we wouldn't have half the good crew that we have now. ;)

Another few years and I'll be down your way - already have the house on the outskirts of Hobart - have all the camping and fishing gear that I'll need - now just to find me a nice little boat .......... :D

[uninformed]

what types of mining is there in QLD?
what are the entry level type jobs?
would my trade as a carpenter be of any use?

cheers,
Serg

[bushrover]

.
Artificial insemination of cattle ( Are there any dairy cows in the Pilbara? ),

Million acre plus properties up here everywhere. Maybe you could convince a Station manager he doesn't need the stud bulls and you can look after the girls for him.

Or is that a bag of chaff ? what good is that bag to the 22 year old HR grad?

Don't right off your incredibly varied experience. Use it to your advantage, how many applicants will have solved the many and varied problems you will have encountered during your working life.

For every skill required in a position description, match them to a skill you have and give an example that will demonstrate your experience. Sometimes it is difficult to recognise what we are really capable of, so make a list of the skills required by the employer and ask your family to give you examples of when you have used those skills. You may be surprised what they come up with.

.

BMKal covered things well. Bugger about the back injury.

[Bigbjorn]

what types of mining is there in QLD?
what are the entry level type jobs?
would my trade as a carpenter be of any use?

cheers,
Serg

There are numerous enormous coal mines and new ones opening regularly, from the Darling Downs to south of the Townsville- Mt. Isa rail line.

Coal seam gas on the Downs and Warrego- Maranoa. Big business and expanding.

Huge bauxite mines in the Cape country and new ones planned.

The MT. Isa-Cloncurry minerals province.

Numerous gold mines.

Manganese on Groote Eylandt.

No doubt a lot that I can't remember.

[Utemad]

what types of mining is there in QLD?
what are the entry level type jobs?
would my trade as a carpenter be of any use?

cheers,
Serg

Find out who is hiring to build the 50 gazillion dongers that are being trucked west through Dalby every day.

[uninformed]

Find out who is hiring to build the 50 gazillion dongers that are being trucked west through Dalby every day.

A mate does this on at Utala, South of Brisbane...he is on average Hr rate, and its common for him to only do 4 days a week as they catch up.

Im sure there are others.

[DiscoMick]

Yatala?

[wrinklearthur]

Is there any way that work for the mining companies could be done remotely and demographic balance how important is it?

As an example, I see that there is prefabricated housing being transported into some of these areas.
Then there need not be a situation where a labour force and raw materials, to build that housing, needs to be moved from area's where the builder's family homes are, if a sensible approach to transport logistics is managed.

There is a downside of keeping the money / taxes paid to the government, kept in the area's that happened to be flush with economic activity at the time. This means that ultimately there has got to be a huge demographic change to the Australian culture, with older retired population staying in the established but economically quiet communities and with the young workers away from their families in remote locations.

Fly in and fly out, is one way that is being used at the moment to satisfy some of the labour requirements for the mining sites. But this FIFO then causes a financial and social strain, on the pre existing population in the community where this mining activity is local to.

So should prefabrication of hardware and remote operation of these mining sites, be a step towards maintaining a more balanced demography?
.

[DiscoMick]

I see some mining companies are experimenting with remote-controlled trains and trucks, like the US drones I guess, so we could end up with very few people on mining sites.

[Bigbjorn]

The miners refuse to train or employ Australians but now wish to import coolies.

We already have Polynesians in the orchards and vineyards.

What next? The kanakas back in the canefields?

[bushrover]

Is there any way that work for the mining companies could be done remotely and demographic balance how important is it?

As an example, I see that there is prefabricated housing being transported into some of these areas.
Then there need not be a situation where a labour force and raw materials, to build that housing, needs to be moved from area's where the builder's family homes are, if a sensible approach to transport logistics is managed.
99% of houses and camps turn up on trucks now. 3 days and they are assembled. All in ground work is done beforehand all that is left is to hook everything up and landscaping.
There is a downside of keeping the money / taxes paid to the government, kept in the area's that happened to be flush with economic activity at the time. Doesn't happen WA is already paying to keep NSW, VIC, SA, TAS afloatThis means that ultimately there has got to be a huge demographic change to the Australian culture, with older retired population staying in the established but economically quiet communities and with the young workers away from their families in remote locations.

Fly in and fly out, is one way that is being used at the moment to satisfy some of the labour requirements for the mining sites. 60% are fly in fly out. None, zero, zilch, nada of that money stays in the mining towns, unless they walk to a servo for cigarettesBut this FIFO then causes a financial and social strain, on the pre existing population in the community where this mining activity is local to.Not really. That's another furfy. If mining companies were forced to create new or larger towns there would not have been a new mine start up in the last 20 years.

So should prefabrication of hardware and remote operation of these mining sites, Everything is pre-fabricated and transported to site from all over the country.be a step towards maintaining a more balanced demography?
.

Arthur, the rest is not a reply to your post -
With the new RRT coming in to play I would love to see every mining company stop spending any money in the communities they operate in and force all levels of government to take on the responsibility that is really theirs. Maybe a few people would then wake up to how much mining companies actually contribute to their communities.

Had an interesting conversation with a group of colleagues today - general consensus was - at least boat people and refugees are willing to work, not like the average aussie who demands everything and gives bugger all.

I did write a novel, but deleted 90% after letting it stew for a while.

Rick

[BMKal]

Is there any way that work for the mining companies could be done remotely and demographic balance how important is it?

As an example, I see that there is prefabricated housing being transported into some of these areas.
Then there need not be a situation where a labour force and raw materials, to build that housing, needs to be moved from area's where the builder's family homes are, if a sensible approach to transport logistics is managed.

There is a downside of keeping the money / taxes paid to the government, kept in the area's that happened to be flush with economic activity at the time. This means that ultimately there has got to be a huge demographic change to the Australian culture, with older retired population staying in the established but economically quiet communities and with the young workers away from their families in remote locations.

Fly in and fly out, is one way that is being used at the moment to satisfy some of the labour requirements for the mining sites. But this FIFO then causes a financial and social strain, on the pre existing population in the community where this mining activity is local to.

So should prefabrication of hardware and remote operation of these mining sites, be a step towards maintaining a more balanced demography?
.


I see some mining companies are experimenting with remote-controlled trains and trucks, like the US drones I guess, so we could end up with very few people on mining sites.

All this has been going on for years, and is no longer really in the "experimentation" stage.

BHP had the ability to operate trains without drivers when I was working at Yandi in the late 90's. Driver-less trains have never been allowed out on the main line for safety reasons, but it has been common practice on some Rio Tinto sites for the trains to pass through the load-out tunnel during loading operations without any crew on the train. These trains are actually controlled by an operator in a room at Perth Airport.

Similarly, Rio Tinto has two sites now where they run dump trucks with no drivers. The trucks are computer / GPS controlled, overseen by an operator in that same building at Perth Airport.

Rio Tinto has at least one crushing plant at which there are no operators - again the plant is fully computer controlled and overseen by a control operator in that building at Perth Airport. The only people on site are a maintenance crew, with occasional contractors for clean-up. I actually worked on commissioning this plant in my last job - basically from the time the dirt falls out of the excavator / shovel bucket into the back of a truck in the pit, until the train leaves the site, there are no "on-site" operators involved. Everything is done from that building at Perth Airport.

Rio Tinto is looking at implementing this technology across as many of their sites as they can (it will probably not be possible on some of the older sites). BHP is now looking at implementing the same or similar technology.

[wrinklearthur]

Another few years and I'll be down your way - already have the house on the outskirts of Hobart - have all the camping and fishing gear that I'll need - now just to find me a nice little boat .......... :D
What sort of boat do you need to while away your leisure hours?
.