Engine rattle and black smoke in Puma when warm?

[Tomo]

Hi All,

My 2009 Defender has developed an engine rattle, especially at operating temperature.

It will run fine with the odd cough when it is cold. After approx 15km on the highway and under load there will be an intermittent 'rattle', black smoke and loss of power!

I have checked the turbo and intercooler hoses, they seem ok, however it is hard to tell as the engine bay is so tight. I had a look at the fuel cooler and that seems ok as well. The car has had a very recent new fuel filter.

Car is approx 2 months out of warranty :(

Any ideas on what to do/check?

[TimNZ]

Sounds like it could be an EGR valve fault, for a simple test you could unplug it and go for a drive. However if you leave it unplugged the engine warning light will come on eventually.

Cheers,

Tim

[Tomo]

I should have also mentioned that there are no warning lights on the dash....

I will try and disconnect the egr valve, it sounds like it is working......
You can defiantly hear it when you turn off the engine
That is not to say that it is not working.......

[BilboBoggles]

Could be a delaminating or leaking turbo hose. I've seen these rub through on the steering pitman arm.

[Tomo]

Thanks Billoboggles,
I did check the turbo and intercooler lines and they seem ok.

I have taken it to the dealers and they took it for a test drive shortly after it was dropped off and the confirmed it was running rough.

On subsequent day they tested it and could not find any faults with it!
They conducted fault code scans on it and it has come up with no fault codes!

I have told it seems to run fine putting around town and told them that they need to hammer it down the hwy for 15 - 20km then the fault appears.

It starts with an engine rattle a few times, then it seems to go into a limp mode and will not go beyond 80km/h......

That other post from Lorryman? seems very useful, unfortunately my car is now in the hands of the dealers, otherwise I would have checked those things....

Will keep people posted on what it turns out to be.....

[robharvey]

Your injectors may need re-coding. Get the dealer to check.

[Lorryman100]

It does sound as if it is an injector issue though it would run like a bag of spanners at tickover as well as at high revs if the injectors where not learned by the ECU? Black smoke is indicative of over fuelling and the loss of power followed by limp mode would have me taking off the pressure limiting valve on the end of the fuel rail to see if that had operated. All it is basically is a ball bearing crimped into place that dislodges when a damaging operating fuel pressure of over 1800 BAR is reached (imagine the sound of a metal ball bearing rattling around inside a metal tube under pressure). This causes the fuel rail to dump pressure and reduces power causing the ECU to go into limp mode. As it is a one shot affair, if it has operated it will fall apart when you remove it so would need replacing. Other checks would include the Turbo actuator arm for seizing mainly to rule this out as the EMS would be regulating the fuel delivered against expected Boost pressure from EMS stored mapped points (engine load, revs, MAF/MAP data etc) and live data from the MAP/MAF/VCV etc sensors. If the bar was stiff or seizing then the boost would not be delivered to offset the amount of fuel being injected into the cylinders causing over fuelling (black smoke), and as the fuel/boost mix live data is not the same as stored EMS values for the given engine sensor conditions, the EMS enters limp mode to protect the engine? It could also be a faulty MAF or MAP sensor, dirty air filter or corroded injector solenoid plug. The good news is that the dealer will run a fast idle test on your defender with IDS which will at least tell them if it is a sensor issue.

There are numerous other causes........ but then it starts to get expensive :o

HTH Brian.

[Tomo]

Quick Update,

Car went to the dealers and it turns out it was the EGR at fault, again. The car is now on its 3nd EGR valve in 60,000km. Failure one happened at approx 25K on clock.....
Need a BAS remap which removes EGR valve now I am out of warranty.......

[Naks]

Car went to the dealers and it turns out it was the EGR at fault, again. The car is now on its 3nd EGR valve in 60,000km. Failure one happened at approx 25K on clock.....Need a BAS remap which removes EGR valve now I am out of warranty.......


flipping hell, 3 EGR valves? Are you using low-sulphur diesel?

Maybe start adding some 2SO to every 2nd tank to see if that makes a difference

[Tomo]

2SO? Is that 2 Stroke oil? mineral or synthetic? How much would you put in? What about the Cat converter?

Yeah, 2 valves have failed one at 20K and now the next at 60K.
The bill to fix it out of warranty was eye watering :(
Maybe the fuel quality in the NT is quite ordinary....

[Naks]

2SO? Is that 2 Stroke oil? mineral or synthetic? How much would you put in? What about the Cat converter?

Any brand of JASO-FC spec will do, do not use synthetic! No harm done to the cat (take that out when warranty expires)