Ex Navy 1950 Restoration

[Lost Landy]

G,day all after owning my 1950 80" 06105221 for more years then i can remember i have been slowly pulling her apart to find a very solid vehicle.Now iam getting close to where i need to think about paint colour, so my delima is do i paint it in its factory colour DBG or the very light pale blue that she had while in the navy?

[extreme]

very light pale blue ;)

[incisor]

X2!

[Lost Landy]

If i do go the light pale blue i need to find out what colour the chassis would have been, so far under a thick layer of some kind of tar coating i can only find traces of DBG :eek:

[pop058]

blue will definitely make it unique. Not many ex-mil S1s around :)

[101RRS]

Were they light blue in the 50s??? Certainly were in the late 60s and 70s but were they before that.

I have posted this before - a colour clip with a 80 series 1 onboard TOBRUK in Korea - what is the colour - I do not know bit it looks darker than light blue :)

Royal Australian Navy Gun Plot (http://www.gunplot.net/korea/korea4.html)

Did you spot the Series 1?

Garry

[Lost Landy]

Were they light blue in the 50s??? Certainly were in the late 60s and 70s but were they before that.

I have posted this before - a colour clip with a 80 series 1 onboard TOBRUK in Korea - what is the colour - I do not know bit it looks darker than light blue :)

Royal Australian Navy Gun Plot (http://www.gunplot.net/korea/korea4.html)

Did you spot the Series 1?

Garry

What a great peice of footage thanks for showing, as for the shade of blue it is the light shade as i came across it while rubbing back the bonnet and firewall. So at least i have a colour match :D

[101RRS]

What a great peice of footage thanks for showing, as for the shade of blue it is the light shade as i came across it while rubbing back the bonnet and firewall. So at least i have a colour match :D

Look I do not know - however I suspect the early series 1s in Navy use may well have been the standard green that they came in at the time. I do now that the colour was different to the blue that came in in the 60s. All black and white pics I have seen of 50s landrovers on ships would indicate the colour was dark not light.

Does the delivery records for the Navy 80s that have been posted on AULRO somewhere actually give the colour.

Good luck with it.

Garry

[Walster]

From the photo below in 1958 the colour of the Navy Land Rovers would have appeared to have changed to a lighter colour (possibly blue) remember the ship’s hull colour has a grey/green tint to it.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/03/273.jpg

Picture taken of HMAS Voyager (II) on 27th January 1958 steamming up the Johore Strait onroute to Singapore.

Regards

Wal

[Sleepy]

Did you spot the Series 1?

How could you miss it? It is in standard land rover configuration - bonnet up! ;)


Nice vehicle - I vote for the darker blue - not that I know anything but I think it'd look good in dark blue. :angel:

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Does the delivery records for the Navy 80s that have been posted on AULRO somewhere actually give the colour.

Good lick with it.

GarryThe only records of colour in the Grenville records were a couple of RAN vehicles one SII "blue" and another later SIIa 88 "smoke grey", the colour of the 109's at the time.

A long time ago I had a friend with an ex-Government/mil 88 which was a navy blue color, the colour the Royal Navy vehicles of the time.

[Rick Fischer]

Bit late I know, but came to this looking to do mine as Sydney's or Vengeance's.

It will be either "Oxford" blue which is a dark "Navy" or the lighter blue which the ZNA-*** cars and trucks were done. S1s would have been C-****** cars. Ship's cars most likely were done in Oxford a la RN.

Oxford is the blue on Sycamore, Wessex and Iroquois helicopters, Macchi jet trainers, and Admiral's Barge.

Cheers

RF

[digger]

although this is is ex MOD Im unsure if this is of any help...

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/series-i-land-rover-enthusiasts-section/138355-interesting-s1-88-ex-mil.html

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Unfortunately the Grenville Motors allocations books don't show the colour code and in most cases don't show a colour change at all.


I suspect that the 80" were all standard deep bronze green of the era when supplied to the navy.
If you look at the REMLR list: "RAN48 88 6/10/1966 - Series 2A S2ARAN Series 2A, Royal Australian Navy 25257421H 24310698C - - Dept of Supply Navy.Dun RTM. Recolour Smoke Grey" "Smoke Grey" was the standard colour of 109" at the time, not usualy applied to 88", but would be similar to the grey of the ships.
Also on the REMLR list: "RAN70 109 3/03/1968 - Series 2A S2ARAN Series 2A, Royal Australian Navy 25239573H 25315393C - 7.50x16 Dept of Supply Navy. OlyAPL750. Recolour? C205664 could be rego? - -
RAN71 109 3/03/1968 - Series 2A S2ARAN Series 2A, Royal Australian Navy 25239489H 25315394C - 7.50x16 Dept of Supply Navy. OlyAPL750. Recolour? - - " it could be "Recolour blue" but what that means in 1968 I don't know.

The RAN70 and RAN71 the comment could be confused with a line above. RAN and other Commonwealth vehicles were Duty Free, sometimes the vehicles came from the factory without the duty being paid, but others Grenville had to reclaim the bond from the Commonwealth. looking at the line above RAN70 is the word "Bond" which is immediately above a scrawl which could be either "blue" or "Due" making "recolour blue" or "recolour" "Due" RAN71 is on balance of probability "Recolour blue" rather that "Recolour" "Due" because there is no "Bond" immediately above it, only the one two lines above.

So while Garry's image shows either Navy Blue or Deep Bronze Green, we do know that the RAN had Landies in Smoke Grey in 1966.

[Rick Fischer]

It is obvious that none of the above has been in the Navy.

Wouldn't matter what the delivery colour was, if it wasn't the appropriate Pusser's "Blue" for the period, it very shortly would be. :) ........ and depending on the particulaqr user, if it was to be properly "tiddley" it would also have white wheels, with painted polished black wheel nuts and white canvas seat covers with dark blue "Navy" piping all scrubbed to within an inch of their life :)

Cheers

RF

[Lost Landy]

Have been slowly wet sanding a few panels and the blue is is quite a light shade of blue havnt had a chance to take a pic but I can if any one is interested.

[101RRS]

Is it light blue or the standard series 1 grey - my SW is grey bit the aged colour looks light blue.

I thought the sky blue/blue grey colour did not become a Navy colour for their Z plated landies until the mid 60s. I would have thought that in the 50s the "Navy" series 1s would have been Department of Supply vehicles rather than dedicated Navy vehicles and drawn out of a C plated Dept of Supply pool of vehicles for deployments. I have no idea what colour these would have been. The Tobruk vehicle was clearly a dark colour most likely green but other later pics show light colour vehicles on ships - maybe they took whatever colour vehicle they were given.

Taking Ricks point about dark blue - I don't think so, though RNZN and RN vehicles were this colour - also back in the 50s very early 60s the aircraft were not dark blue so this colour was not in use in the RAN at that time.

Cheers

Garry

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hi Garry

Actually the Grenville Motors allocations books do list quite a few vehicles as "Dept of Supply Navy" or sometimes just "Navy", just like they list Dept of Supply, Dept of Interior" or "Dept of Supply Prickly Pear" for the Prickly Pear Eradication program.

Later, most likely when Leyland Truck and Bus took over distribution the vehicles were ordered direct from local Land Rover dealers.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/series-i-land-rover-enthusiasts-section/81272d1406542252-ex-navy-1950-restoration-ran-70-71.jpg

[Lotz-A-Landies]

....
Taking Ricks point about dark blue - I don't think so, though RNZN and RN vehicles were this colour - also back in the 50s very early 60s the aircraft were not dark blue so this colour was not in use in the RAN at that time.

Cheers
GarryUnlike yourself, I'm not an expert on the RAN, but I seem to have a recollection of the Iroquois and Wessex helicopters in Navy blue with white tops.
Old Navy helicopter takes to the air | Navy Daily (http://news.navy.gov.au/en/Jul2013/Events/139/Old-Navy-helicopter-takes-to-the-air.htm#.U9be8El-_IU)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/07/92.jpg

http://www.navalofficer.com.au/ran-choppers/

[101RRS]

Yes - but in the later 60s not the 50s and early 60s when series 1s were being used. At the time series 1s were in use, aircraft tended to be silver or have uppers of a dark grey with sides and lower fuselage in a light grey/green colour.

When the Navy had some aircraft in the dark blue livery, the Navy was using the well known Series 2s in sky blue/grey with white roofs - these had Z plates.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I do remember the RAN Fairey Gannett at HMAS Albatross, from memory it was a light grey/green on the lower fuse and dark grey on the top. Same as the Sea Venom that used to sit atop a pole on the corner of Kinghorn Streets and Kalandar Street Nowra.

No idea of the dates but it would have been the late 1960s when Uncle Graham, was living in the married quarters at Nowra Hill (HMAS Albarrioss)

[101RRS]

The problem we have with series 1s used by the RAN is that it is so long ago. I can certainly remember the series 2s but nothing before that. Most people who would have personal experience from the late 50s are now in their 80s and probably don't frequent forums - either military or otherwise.

The pics that have come to light are generally in black and white and taken from considerable distance so it is hard to determine colour and other details. I did contact the historic section of Navy PR a couple of years back but they did not retain any records on vehicles - just ships and aircraft.

I think that the detective work that people have done is about the best that is realistically achievable. It woud seem that colours may have varied - vehicles were allocated to the Dept of Supply for the Navy rather than allocated direct to the Dept of Navy so probably in some sort of pool arrangement.

The place to look is in the individual museums that the Navy still runs - most establishments have at least a library, places like Albatross and Creswell have their own museums and there is the large one at Spectacle Is and that is the one that probably has the answers.

Garry

[Rick Fischer]

Oxford Blue - Some RAN Sea Furies were painted Oxford blue, as were Sycamores. QEII and HRH inspected the troops in HMS Albion using an Oxford Blue S1. :)

That is not to say that S1s were not operated in other colours. Ground equipment "Yellow" at Nowra and JB for instance, or the light blue ZNA-*** sixties colour.

However, S1s operated as "ship's boats" * :) would be like the "barges" with ship's badges etc. and all tiddley. The Jimmy (1st Lieut) and the Buffer (Chief Bosun's Mate) would not have it otherwise, it simply would not be allowed on their deck!

* one needs to be ex-Navy to understand the rationale, goes with decks, deck-heads bulkheads etc when in a building ashore :) :)

Cheers

RF

[Lost Landy]

Well guys I have been doing some serious thinking (scary I know:D) I have owned this 80" since 1991 and in that time have only restored the chassis and rebuilt all 4 leaf springs & have got to thinking that I just don't think I have the time or the money to do the full concourse restoration in the correct Navy specs to this unique Landy so deserves.
I am possibly thinking of selling it. It is 100% rust free very good panels matching numbers, long nose diffs the free-wheel gearbox has been reconditioned have receipts
It has had quite a colour full live and I know its history since it was auctioned off from the navy,.

[TGMBC]

Do you have any pics?

[crackers]

You may be restricting yourself by focusing on "the full concourse restoration in the correct Navy specs to this unique Landy so deserves".

I'm not suggesting you're wrong, but there is an alternative which is to take the base you've already built, and reconstruct a running and useable Landy. As long as you don't do anything that will prevent that full restoration and document everything (to facilitate a full resto), you may find that just getting her working and enjoying her, even if it's only on the occasional vintage run, may be all you need to keep her in the family. Certainly a complete, running vehicle that is used periodically will last longer.

Outside of that, there's no way of pricing what you have because history only has value to the beholder. Maybe contact your local vintage car club (here in Adelaide, I'd direct you to the Sporting Car Club) ie, a multi marque club, because they're most likely to understand these things. Contact the local Land Rover club as well. There are probably historic military vehicle clubs too, you see enough historic military vehicles at parades and the like.

Whatever route you take, I applaud you for trying to preserve a piece of history. Hope it works out for you.

[Mick_Marsh]

Hey, Lost Landy, you can post your "What's it worth" here:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/what-worth/

Oh, and remember, when it comes time to sell, pop it in the "Markets" section.

[digger]

Lost Landy,,

did you happen to see this thread and more importantly the photos?

this is an ex RN s1 that was sold near here before I really knew what it was!

maybe this colour may be familiar?

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/series-i-land-rover-enthusiasts-section/138355-interesting-s1-88-ex-mil.html


**edit having probs with FLICKR try this one for photos! https://www.flickr.com/search/'text=%22mt%20mary%20s1%2088%22

cheers
Digger

[Rick Fischer]

Though the S1 is "tiddly" it is not dark enough to be the "formal" Oxford blue of a "barge", and Voyager at the taking of the photo was not a flotilla leader with a four ringer - No "leader" markings on the stack.

Given that the original light blue has been found that is the one I would use. The chassis will have been Bronze Green. All the 80" were.

Looking at the Flikkr photos of the 88 would confirm the pusser's lighter blue for the Voyager "boat" :)

Cheers

Rick F

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Though the S1 is "tiddly" it is not dark enough to be the "formal" Oxford blue of a "barge", and Voyager at the taking of the photo was not a flotilla leader with a four ringer - No "leader" markings on the stack.

Given that the original light blue has been found that is the one I would use. The chassis will have been Bronze Green. All the 80" were.

Looking at the Flikkr photos of the 88 would confirm the pusser's lighter blue for the Voyager "boat" :)

Cheers

Rick FSorry for being a pedant, however the statement is incorrect. Some of the pre-production 80" had galvanised chassis,
the 1948 #86**** and early 1949 *866**** with the light green body colour had silver painted chassis.
80" factory fire engines had red or black chassis,
and some fleet contract 80" had fleet colours like the RACQ 80"

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/1078.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/1079.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/1080.jpg

[wollomi1962]

Reckon the current patina tells the full story...get it safe and drive it. Cheers.