98 110 Steering box

[uninformed]

Hey all,

my 1998 110 has a leak around the steering box, Im pretty sure its getting worse. I have to 100% confirm it is the box and not a fitting.

Assuming it is the box, im thinking the best option for me is to buy a new one and just do a remove and replace. I think I should be able to do this myself :confused:

Any tips, especially safety, if I have to remove panhard and draglink....

[justinc]

dont have to remove panhard, just drag link. buy a new box with drop arm, you won't have to worry about a puller then.

not too difficult at all but easier with vehicles front suspension at full droop for clearance sake.


jc

[uninformed]

if I did need a puller, what type is it?

any reason RAVE says remove panhard....I was scratching my head on that one, but thought I better have a good look under there before commenting.

Anything else to replace as a matter of coarse along with the steering box?

[justinc]

if I did need a puller, what type is it?

any reason RAVE says remove panhard....I was scratching my head on that one, but thought I better have a good look under there before commenting.

Anything else to replace as a matter of coarse along with the steering box?

err, big puller:). and all we remove at the panhard rod area is the cross brace from the base of the steering box to the panhard rod stiffener/ bracket

nothing else to replace.

jc

[Blknight.aus]

with the chassis jacked with just the right shape and size hammer you can get a good swing onto the side of the drop arm if you turn the steering to almost full lock right, Some times thats enough to encourage it off.

it can be tetrised out with the arm in place but its about as much fun as flossing with an electric fence.

[malleefowl]

Have replaced mine .Just want to know if there is a market for used boxes.Was leaking but not too badly.Replaced for major trip.
Or is it just scrap?
Thanks,
Mary

[justinc]

Have replaced mine .Just want to know if there is a market for used boxes.Was leaking but not too badly.Replaced for major trip.
Or is it just scrap?
Thanks,
Mary

usually scrap, at least thats where i put them. might be worth offering it through the markets to someone who may want to try and save it?

the worm and ball race wears, the sector shaft looses its hardening at the lower needle roller bearing, and the piston bore gets scored but who knows on disassembly it might be economically viable if done yourself.

jc

[jplambs]

it can be tetrised out with the arm in place but its about as much fun as flossing with an electric fence.

Tell me about it, I took mine out of a 95 'fender without being able to disconnect the arm. The joys of not having a set of pullers. I did find that a fair bit of heat followed by some cold water was the the key to getting it off.

[Benz]

replaced my 4 bolt box last year.

the new one had a new piman arm in place so didn't have to worry about a puller (I don't have one anyway)

getting the old box out and the new one in with the pitman arm in place is a huge pain in the arse! but is doable

[uninformed]

thanks guys,

I had a bit more of a look at mine today. Plenty of PS fluid on it from the uni down. It has a couple of drips forming on the underside. Im guessing its leaking from around the top shaft if not both? Level is down about 1 inch from the top of the little white thingy (technical I know) in the PS resivour.

Are all PS fluids compatable?
what is a good brand/type?
Where is the best place to buy a new steering box?
Are they all made by Adwest, or is there some crap ones to avoid?

cheers,
Serg

[justinc]

thanks guys,

I had a bit more of a look at mine today. Plenty of PS fluid on it from the uni down. It has a couple of drips forming on the underside. Im guessing its leaking from around the top shaft if not both? Level is down about 1 inch from the top of the little white thingy (technical I know) in the PS resivour.

Are all PS fluids compatable?
what is a good brand/type?
Where is the best place to buy a new steering box?
Are they all made by Adwest, or is there some crap ones to avoid?

cheers,
Serg

British Four Wheel Drive - Land Rover Parts, Range Rover Parts, Discovery Parts, Freelander Parts, Defender Parts, Accessories & Spares Specialist (http://www.british4wd.com/) can supply them, genuine Adwest. You can try overseas BUT warranty can be a bit of a lottery.

JC

[uninformed]

yep delt with them before. It will be interesting to see if they are near the Ebay prices....

I have no idea why its leaking but could this lead to some vague steering? I know I have lost castor due to my lift, but isnt that mostly return to center?? Im talking about play in the steering wheel before it makes a input. I can move the wheel a good 5 degrees at 40km/h and get pretty much no steering....Id have to say its worse but as these things slowly happen its hard to know.

All links have new bushes except panhard.

[uninformed]

Sorry I had them confused with Britsih off road on the Sunny Coast.....I just checked them on Ebay and their feedback doesnt inspire much confidence :confused:

[justinc]

Sorry I had them confused with Britsih off road on the Sunny Coast.....I just checked them on Ebay and their feedback doesnt inspire much confidence :confused:

Ah, thats not something I have ever noticed before because they are local to me, never bought anything off their ebay store yet. A few customers of mine have bought good priced steering boxes off them, for me to fit. they were all pretty happy.

JC

[DT-P38]

Hi,

I recently replaced all the links and bushes on the front end of "The Count". At the same time I rebuilt the pitman (steering drop) arm ball joint with a $15 OME kit versus buying a new arm at $90.

To pull the arm, I used a Stanley brand Pitman Arm Puller from Supercheap ($40), which required some minor fiddling and encouragement to get on properly, but did the job well once lined up.

While there, I cleaned up the output shaft then replaced the outer oil seal (kit with 3 output seals and circlip was $28). That seems to have stopped the slow leak that was there prior. As it was pretty simple work, I am thinking I will put the rest of the seals on if the leak starts again...

Will add some photo's of relevant stuff later.

Cheers, Dave.

[uninformed]

still doing some research....pullers etc

any tips/tricks for doing the rebuild kit on the ball joint?

Any tips on fluid types. Should I flush the system or anything like that?

Any speacial tools used to do this task?

Any dos, donts for setting the steering when box refitted?

[uninformed]

bump...

also are there O Rings on the hyd fittings? If so, where to buy for replacement?

[rick130]

still doing some research....pullers etc

any tips/tricks for doing the rebuild kit on the ball joint?

Any tips on fluid types. Should I flush the system or anything like that?

Any speacial tools used to do this task?

Any dos, donts for setting the steering when box refitted?

Yes, I'd do a complete fluid flush before removing the old box.

I'll get back to you on fluid choice ;)

[uninformed]

thanks mate,

also What is the best/safe way to set truck up so front axle is in droop. I have both ramps and axle stands. Looking at the chassis there isnt any where really forward of the axle. Rear of it it has the arch up over the axle...is it ok to put them back where it starts to curve up? ....

[Blknight.aus]

3 choices
1. go onto the cross memeber under the bell housing
2, go under the outside of the front bar work.
3. go under the chassis points for the front hockey sticks

If you are not going under the front bar work I recommend adding some weight to the back end of the vehicle

[uninformed]

steering box is ordered and on its way....yes JC, it come with the pitman arm :D

are we to assumme the pitman arm is attached in the correct location on the steering box, or is there a method to check?

what is the best way to flush the system of the existing PS fluid?

Will I need any O Rings etc for the hyd fittings?

Any nuts etc that should be replaced during this procedure?

cheers
Serg

[justinc]

steering box is ordered and on its way....yes JC, it come with the pitman arm :D

are we to assumme the pitman arm is attached in the correct location on the steering box, or is there a method to check?

what is the best way to flush the system of the existing PS fluid?

Will I need any O Rings etc for the hyd fittings?

Any nuts etc that should be replaced during this procedure?

cheers
Serg


Hey serg,

The arm will be correct, there are 3 master splines and 2 of them make the arm face completely in the wrong direction:p

O rings are generally not a problem, make certain you tighten the clamp bolts on the column unis tightly.

JC

[uninformed]

any tricks to getting that column uni of the SB shaft? I see it just has a pinch bolt, but am thinking it may be on there good???

[justinc]

any tricks to getting that column uni of the SB shaft? I see it just has a pinch bolt, but am thinking it may be on there good???

remove the bolt completely, it is keyed to a flat on the shaft. soak in crc and may even have to spread it slightly with a small flat blade screwdriver.

jc

[uninformed]

I have picked up some Castrol Transmax Z for the powersteering fluid. I want to flush the system before removal and refitting of the new box. Do I have to use the Castrol or can I use something cheaper?

How much fluid does the system hold?

[DeanoH]

According to my Defender manual 2.90 litres for power steering box and reservoir. It also says steering box-manual 0.43 litres. So I guess this means the steering box itself holds .43 litres and all the rest of the power sterring paraphernalia holds 2.9 - 0.43 = 2.47 litres. :)

The book also says the fluid should be ATF M2C 33 F or G whatever the hell that might be or Dexron IID.

Castrol's got a chart showing all the recommended lubricants for all sorts of vehicles but it's too well hidden, can't find it.


Deano :)

[DeanoH]

Found it!

According to Castrol's site Transmax Z is the all singing dancing fully synthetic Dexron III replacement.

My old favourite Transmax M the common or garden variety Dexron II equivalent has now been re named Castrol ATF Dex II

I've got no idea apart from a GM vs. Ford type thing what the difference is but my mechanic maintains they (Dexron II and Dexron III) are not interchangeable. Don't know if this counts for power steering though :confused:

I would have thought a Dexron II type fluid is what you needed ?

Deano:)

[uninformed]

Transmax Z was recommended to me by another Landy enthusiest with a 98 Defender. I trust his judgement ;).

My head says good practice would require the same brand/type fluid used in the flush as the refill, but my wallet wants a second opinion :D

[DeanoH]

I think you might be buggered. Not only are you changing Dexron II for Dexron III you're changing mineral for synthetic at the same time.

So what you're after is a Dexron III synthetic cheaper than Transmax Z for flushing purposes ? Now there's a challenge. ;)

Dexron VI ?

Deano:)

[uninformed]

Finally getting into it today. Going OKish so far. I have done a 4ltr flush and now pulling everything off. I just removed the tie bar that attaches to the front of the box and to the Panhard rod mount.

Should there be a bush of some sort in the Panhard rod mount??? The tie bar has a cast 13mm bolt that passes through a 23mm hole in the mount (WTF???) .............or is this "production line tollerence"???

Also, what spanners are you guys/gals using for the Hyd fittings on top of the steering box. I just have normal open end/ring combination and found them a bugger to fit in that area??? Are short open end the go?

opened up the knuckle of my thumb really good to, blood everywhere.....stupid hose clamps :mad:

[isuzurover]

No bush.

Yes I think short open enders is what I used.

[uninformed]

wow, thats a big hole for a little bolt :confused:

[uninformed]

The old box is out. Ill need to pick up the 2 O Rings for the Hyd fittings in the morning. The hardest parts were: Undoing the hyd fittings (which lead to the awesome cut on my thumb) Having to Modify the inner guard where its ment to have scallops around the steering box bolts, needless to say they didnt line up with no chance of getting a socket on those top 2 bolts. And getting the uni off the steering box input shaft....this should be done prior to trying to remove the box. Infact if you undo the pinch bolt on both the bottom unis, it allows you to slide the uni up the square section shaft. (I was following RAVE prior to figuring this out)....

Im not sure what is different about my rig, but getting the box out from bellow was easy as it fell straight out. I had the panhard and drag link completely removed. These 2 items are very easy to take out and by all accounts saying the box is a bugger to get out with the pitman arm on, Id say take these links out and it will fall in your lap.

[uninformed]

is there any preference for reassembling the TRE's in the Drag link etc? do you just make sure the Taper and fitting is nice and clean and dry? or do you lube the taper with something? Oil? Anti-seize?

[uninformed]

Does anyone know the correct size O Rings for the 98 4 bolt steering box?

I rang my LR mech and all he said was its not a part they can supply :confused: (I was just after the size............) I took the old ones into the bearing shop and got 6mmx2mm and 7mmx2mm. Bit hard to tell as the old ones are compressed out of shape.

[DeanoH]

..............................Should there be a bush of some sort in the Panhard rod mount??? The tie bar has a cast 13mm bolt that passes through a 23mm hole in the mount (WTF???) .............or is this "production line tollerence"???....................

Are you saying that the hole in the upper Panhard rod mount is 25mm on both sides ? Should be 13mm same as the HT bolt that goes through. On mine the HT bolt was worn and on the inside of the rearmost mounting flange there was a fair sized 'divot' worn into the casting by the obviously harder Panhard rod inner sleeve. Perhaps yours has worn all the way through :eek:. Or have I mis understood your question ?

Deano :)

[uninformed]

Nah Deano, not the Panhard rod itself (btw mine has M14 bolts so it wont be a 13mm hole :D)

The tie bar that attaches to the steering box and to the panhard rod mount has a theaded end as part of its casting, this is 13mm dia, the hole it passes through in the panhard rod mount is 23mm....The panhard rod mount is the big thick cast section that bolts to the outside of the front chassis rail. The bolts are top and bottom of rail. It hanges down and picks up the tie bar just above the panhard rod.

I have been informed by Ben, and another, this is factory LR, ie they just gave themselves a little tollerence for producition line fitting :eek: must be for when the tea runs out......

[uninformed]

ok, I know you have all said this at some point, but someone at Sollihul needs a belting! :mad: How painful is it re-fitting the first (14mm) hyd line. This is the metal hard line that attaches closest to the front of vehicle. With its proximity to the factory fitted hard line and the fact that the pipe itself must line up true and square in all directions is a joke. Given the easy last fitting is rubber hose right up to the fitting.........my hard line needed so much twisting to in 2 directions I had to clamp some vice grips to it, which I HATE doing. And then with the force of holding it and the fiddliness, there was no way I had any "feel" for the union nut threading in. It would have been very easy to bugger this up and cross thread it. Its already a hard enough spot to get good feel. I can only hope I have it fitted properly and it wont leak..

Im going to do a bit of a search around and customise a couple of spanners for this area. I wont use them much but when I need to they will be there.

I cleaned all my bolts on a bench grinder wire wheel, along with the TRE in the drag link (swivel end)

I drilled,tapped and fitted a grease nipple to the TRE that comes fitted to the pitman arm.

[uninformed]

well im really ****ed now. I just filled the resevior up and started the engine. Topped it up as the level dropped. When it settled I started to look around. Straight away I found my first leak. I thought it was the 14mm hyd feed line to the steering box (at the steering box) as I had trouble getting it nice and true when fitting. But NO, its the return line leaking, and not from the fitting but from where the metal pipe is press fitted into the rubber hose......:mad:

So now I have to remove that line and get something made, which means I loose my fluid $$$

[uninformed]

loosing my sense of humor at an alarming rate........

[uninformed]

Anothe inner guard modified! The return Hyd line only took about 1.5hrs to get out. Removing it at the steering box = easy, removing the chassis cross member clamps = easy, figuring out there is one more chassis clamp, finding it, cleaning 15 years of gunk off to get at it, realising that the nut is 10mm and the bolt head is 8mm, actually being able to get at it since it is under the turbo bottom hose and cast fitting into the intercooler = a huge pain in the............neck!!! :mad: clearly this is one of those things where they, in the factory, they paint the chassis, then install the steering hyd return line, then build the rest of the vehicle ontop of/around it.

Im going to a hyd shop tomorrow to see what they can do for me. This hose/pipe set up doesnt look real field servicable.

I made my 2 hyd pipe spanners:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/90-110-130-defender-county/49334d1343209941-98-110-steering-box-custom-14-16mm-pipe-spanners.jpg

[rovercare]

I'd stay of the tools if I was you, your vehicle seems to end up worse off:eek:

[uninformed]

yeah im sure im the first person to have a problem with the hi quality LR hyd return line....15 years old and moving it 5 inches out the way made it leak....

[uninformed]

So anyway, since the return line was leaking from the steering box end, where the small 90 degree metal pipe is press fitted inside a length of rubber hose. The fitting/joint had failed. I took it to a hyd shop and had them look at it. It was recommened that I cut the fittings off and use hose clamps. Since it is only low pressure I figured it was ok. (would not be able to do this on the pressure/feed line) The hose at the resivour end is 12mm ID and the hose at the steering box end is 10mm. I picked up some new hose and clamps. See pics. I fitted it all up, still an absolute bugger to get it bolted to the chassis bracket. I also used some 10mm fuel line cut and split to put around both metal lines where they are clamped to the front crossmember. Filled the resevior up AGAIN and did the bleed.

How much air/bubbles should come out? I did it in 4 stages.
#1 ran the engine for 3 mins making sure the resevior wasnt dropping any more, then cracked the bleed nipple, wheels straight ahead.
#2 turned the steering to right full lock and cracked bleed nipple.
#3 turned the steering to left full lock and cracked bleed nipple.
#4 straight ahead crack bleed nipple.

each time fluid came out straight away and I didnt notice any bubbles. Its a bit hard to though with a socket over it...

Took it for a quick drive and all seems ok. Definitly stiffer feel with no noticable play.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/90-110-130-defender-county/49368d1343300972-98-110-steering-box-removing-old-pressed-hyd-fitting-rs.jpg

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/90-110-130-defender-county/49369d1343300995-98-110-steering-box-hyd-return-line-barb-ends-rs.jpg

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/90-110-130-defender-county/49370d1343301020-98-110-steering-box-new-hose-fitted-rs.jpg

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/90-110-130-defender-county/49371d1343301040-98-110-steering-box-finished-return-line-rs.jpg