why cyclists should never pay rego

[weeds]

“Pay yer rego!”
It's a cry I've heard many times while cycling, and it always confuses me.
For starters, I've already paid rego twice this year: for a car and a motor scooter. When I'm on my bike, these vehicles are at home, taking a break from clogging the road or burning fossil fuels (in fact, my car was getting so much rest, I got rid of it).
Secondly, there is no rego fee for a bicycle. So how am I supposed to pay it?
The idea that cyclists should pay registration is a perennial one for bike-bashers, and seems to revolve around two pet theories.
The first notion, that of “user pays”, falls down on a vast number of points, including:

1. Road construction is paid for out of general taxation. We all fund the roads, even those who only ever walk. Besides, rego revenue falls far short (http://www.cyclingpromotion.com.au/images/stories/factsheets/Issue_Sheet_5_Bicycles_belong_on_the_road.pdf)of the amount spent on roads, and is swallowed up by administration fees and third party insurance.
2. Local road repairs are paid for by councils – your rates are subsidising people who drive through your suburb (the bludgers!).
3. Cars are charged by weight and the damage they do. In NSW, a 1.51-tonne car costs $459 to register and a 950-kilogram vehicle, $243; on that sliding scale, what might the owner of a 10-kilogram bicycle pay?
The second theory regards registration plates being used for law enforcement: “I could report the number of a cyclist breaking the road rules, and they'd get a fine.”
This idea fails in so many areas it's hard to know where to start. Have you ever noted the number of a car that breaks the law, and phoned it in to the police? They will sigh and tell you there's nothing they can do.
If visible registration plates prevent traffic violations, then surely we should never see car drivers speeding, tailgating or texting while driving? Besides, cyclists who cause accidents are likely to do the most damage to themselves; in a car crash, the culpable driver has a good chance of escaping unharmed. Is a massive, costly logistical exercise, registering the 1 million bicycles sold in Australia every year, really worth it to maybe catch a few cyclists who treat red lights as give way signs?

Then there are the practical considerations. Would it be the cyclist or the bicycle that is registered? Does three bikes mean three regos? For a number plate to be visible to a red-light camera, it would have to be large and transversely mounted. Where and how would it attach? How many riders and pedestrians would be injured by those plate edges, not to mention car paint jobs scratched?
While we're at it, why not register pedestrians? As was pointed out in a hilarious column (http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/revealed-real-hazards-on-our-citys-roads-are-8230-20120610-2049q.html) on Monday, they're always jaywalking, demanding separate paths and getting themselves run over. Register the lot of 'em!
Wait … if boats have to pay registration, isn't it about time surfers paid too? And displayed registration, so we can film and fine them if they stray into swimming zones?
And it's about now that I should ask you, dear reader, with tears in my true-blue eyes:
What kind of an Australia do we want to live in?
Imagine renting a beachside holiday house, finding a couple of bicycles in the shed … then realising you don't have a bike licence, or forgot to bring it.
Imagine having to explain to foreigners that we are the only nation in the world where riding a bicycle - a global transport solution that is way older than the car - requires a licence.
It would be nanny-stateism gone bonkers. A redefinition of the concept of world's worst practice.

Why hinder a form of transport that has doubled in use in the Sydney CBD in the past year, and makes up an impressive 11 per cent of vehicles (http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/drop-speeds-ditch-helmets-cycling-experts-say-20120529-1zg64.html) in the Melbourne city centre?
Registering cycles would instantly cause use to plummet. Instead of filtering through side streets or using paths over major bridges, former cyclists would be putting more cars on the roads and more people on our struggling public transport networks.
Yes – motorists would suffer.
Happily, despite the mouthings of shock jocks, Shane Warne and people who should know better, there appear to be no official moves to bring in such a retrograde move.
And even though the NSW government is sending mixed messages on bike lanes (while doing nothing), and the Victorian government has cut funding for cycle infrastructure to a big fat zero, sparking protests, (https://www.bicyclenetwork.com.au/general/change-the-world/93685/) cycling participation continues to grow.
Healthier citizens, less pressure on public transport, a reduction in pollution, congestion and parking problems – who would want to put a price on that?
Can you think of any other reasons why bicycle registration is a bad idea?


:rocket::rocket:

[tomalophicon]

One thing the government(s) should do is ban those hideous lycra body suits. They're not helping anyone.

Seriously more people should ride. I walk because work is close and I don't own a bike.

[rainman]

:D What a bitter, bitter rant, but I couldn't have said it better myself.

James.

[weeds]

One thing the government(s) should do is ban those hideous lycra body suits. They're not helping anyone.

Seriously more people should ride. I walk because work is close and I don't own a bike.

i reckon the ladies look pretty good in Lycra.........

[PhilipA]

If all cyclists were law abiding citizens who considered others and did not block traffic on major roads in peak hour then all of the above would be sweetness and light.
Unfortunately the cyclists that I met and dealt with every day on Sydney roads were in the majority selfish people who considered nobody but themselves, wilfully obstructed traffic because it was "their right", ran stop signs, ran red lights , rode on footpaths scattering pedestrians, and gave the cops the "bird" when one tried to pull them over because there was no way of identifying them.( IMHO that is why the cops want number plates, not to tax)

IMHO the reason motorists dislike bikes is all of the above. I have seen a lone cyclist in low gear ride up Spit Hill with 5 fully loaded buses struggling to keep moving behind it. I used to ride a motorcycle in every day for 5 years and on numerous occasions two bikes abreast in the bus lane would just sit there and baulk me, because it was their "rights" .

If cyclists are so concerned with fitness why not get off the main roads and ride along the suburban streets that are often blocked off to cars, eg the roads along Mossman which start at Spit Hill and rejoin up near the bridge.A bit hillier but hey , isn't it all about fitness, or is being public nuisances more important to the majority.

Regards Philip A

[isuzutoo-eh]

No way I could attach a registration plate to my unicycle and if, like motorcycles only one plate is needed, i'd ride it backwards. I've ridden it on the road, on footpaths, along cycleways, through sports fields and taken it on the train on my daily uni commute a few years ago.

Road funding should be cut by 50% with 25% of it going to the rail system budget and the other 25% going to cycleways. It doesn't matter if the roads can't be maintained, it'll force more to bikes who'll then get fit, while us fatties all drive 4WDs anyway. Lock the centre diff when Parramatta Rd deteriorates further!

[EchiDna]

Some minor ammendments for ya ;-)


If all drivers were law abiding citizens who considered others and did not block traffic on major roads in peak hour then all of the above would be sweetness and light.
Unfortunately the drivers that I met and dealt with every day on Sydney roads were in the majority selfish people who considered nobody but themselves, wilfully obstructed traffic because it was "their right", speeding, tailgaiting, parking anywhere they please and gave everyone the "bird" because there was no way of identifying them.

IMHO the reason cyclists dislike drivers is all of the above. I have seen a lone car and caravan in low gear ride up Spit Hill with 5 fully loaded buses struggling to keep moving behind it. I used to ride a motorcycle in every day for 5 years and on numerous occasions busses in the bus lane would just sit there and baulk me, because it was their "rights" .

If drivers are so concerned with being law abiding why not start by looking in the mirror. but hey , isn't it all about me and my rights, or is being public nuisances more important to the majority.

Regards Philip A

[Drover]

Bikes should sooo have to be registered.

The argument that because I pay for my cars rego and wife cars rego etc etc, I shouldn't have to pay for my bike is ridiculous.

There are so many bikes getting around without brakes, bells, reflector and other defects that yearly checks should be put in place.

If you want to ride on the main roads and compete with other traffic you should be paying for it.

As for enforcement, just because you can’t catch them all doesn't mean you shouldn't catch any of them.....

[bee utey]

Bikes should sooo have to be registered.

The argument that because I pay for my cars rego and wife cars rego etc etc, I shouldn't have to pay for my bike is ridiculous.

There are so many bikes getting around without brakes, bells, reflector and other defects that yearly checks should be put in place.

If you want to ride on the main roads and compete with other traffic you should be paying for it.

As for enforcement, just because you can’t catch them all doesn't mean you shouldn't catch any of them.....

Using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Enabling police officers to do their job properly and patrol the streets to enforce all road rules would be a better scenario. Put the police on bicycles and let them ping pedestrians, cyclists, cars, whatever.

I could possibly support rego for cyclists if you could show conclusively that registration works at stopping all antisocial behavoiur of motorists and motor bikers. I would love so much to be able to fine every idiot who drifts across the lane lines into my path or shines their poorly adjusted lights into my eyes, to mention just a couple of common misdemeanors. I can't read their number plates at any distance anyway. How are these common morons in any way inhibited by registration?

Anyway, don't ask for something that you will regret, registering bicycles won't improve the traffic at all. It's just a wish for petty revenge.

In the fullness of time all people will be microchipped and road sensors will be able to monitor (and tax and fine) your every move. Will you be happy then?:):):)

As for yearly rego checks, how would that work? Put a bell on for the check, remove it once you get out the door. And the other 364 days? I don't get it.

[Tombie]

Using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Enabling police officers to do their job properly and patrol the streets to enforce all road rules would be a better scenario. Put the police on bicycles and let them ping pedestrians, cyclists, cars, whatever.

I could possibly support rego for cyclists if you could show conclusively that registration works at stopping all antisocial behavoiur of motorists and motor bikers. I would love so much to be able to fine every idiot who drifts across the lane lines into my path or shines their poorly adjusted lights into my eyes, to mention just a couple of common misdemeanors. I can't read their number plates at any distance anyway. How are these common morons in any way inhibited by registration?

Anyway, don't ask for something that you will regret, registering bicycles won't improve the traffic at all. It's just a wish for petty revenge.

In the fullness of time all people will be microchipped and road sensors will be able to monitor (and tax and fine) your every move. Will you be happy then?:):):)

As for yearly rego checks, how would that work? Put a bell on for the check, remove it once you get out the door. And the other 364 days? I don't get it.

On the highlighted part.... If they could embed my Paywave Visa and my drivers license, medicare etc information in my wrist I would have it done in a flash... :cool:

Save me carrying my bloody wallet everywhere :cool:

[richard4u2]

i dont think they should have to pay a fee but all major and semi miner roads should have a cycle lane so they dont get in the way of cars and then i think the attitude towards them would change

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I'm only going to make a one comment.

When I have to pay tens of dollars everytime I drive on Sydney Toll Roads why should cyclists be permitted to use what should be the breakdown lane for free.

There are plenty of non toll roads for them to use and be closer to the same speed as the motorised transport using them.

It's rediculous that the M7 in Sydney should have 4 cycle spaces (the same number as there are lanes for motorised traffic) the two dedicated cycleways have their own dedicated lighting and bridges and the cyclists are still allowed to use the dead lane inches away from trucks, buses and cars travelling at 100KPH

[TimNZ]

This should have been in the soap box..........

Rego or no rego cyclists need to be identifiable so they can be made accountable for the actions. I've had to call 000 twice now because of raging cyclists.

I still can't believe that cycling is legal, especially in the current enviroment of super safety rules. I know cyclists have the right to be on the roads, and as a driver I take care not to drive into them, but in some places either the cars or the bikes need to be excluded.

Cheers,

Tim

P.S. Cyclists, please don't use my car as a leaning post!!!

[Grimace]

I seriously can not beleive people in this very thread are all for registration of bikes... I am all for less registration.

Personally why should I have to pay $1000 a year to register each of my vehciles when I only use one at a time.

The cost of a license should be the main expense, not rego. If you can drive a car and would like the priviledge you pay for it on your license.

Its not like all my vehicles are on the road at once, ruining them and causing traffic jams... seriously.

I have said it numerous times, licensing should cost $600 a year, that covers your arse in a Third Party claim, then you pay a minor amount for each vehicle you own, it can still be GVM or cylinder based, but make it a lot less... like $200 max...

Then make it harder to optain a license and also make it more costly if caught driving without one.
That way I can own four (or more of course) cars that I will happily maintain and enjoy for many years to come.

The current QLD system is a joke, I could probably not register any of my cars and still be better off cost wise (fines v registration) if I got caught three times each year...

Getting off track with my rant....
More registration fees, on bikes!!!... FFS! someone shoot me in the face :angel:!

[mike 90 RR]

selfish people who considered nobody but themselves, wilfully obstructed traffic because it was "their right", ran stop signs, ran red lights , .... two bikes abreast in the ... lane would just sit there ..... because it was their "rights" .


On ya Phillip ... We have plenty of them in Perth .....
I love the way they shift from left to right on a road and THEN look behind to see traffic ....

Some riders are good .... and some are just pure tossers


Cheers
Mike

[Grimace]

I'm only going to make a one comment.

When I have to pay tens of dollars everytime I drive on Sydney Toll Roads why should cyclists be permitted to use what should be the breakdown lane for free.

There are plenty of non toll roads for them to use and be closer to the same speed as the motorised transport using them.

It's rediculous that the M7 in Sydney should have 4 cycle spaces (the same number as there are lanes for motorised traffic) the two dedicated cycleways have their own dedicated lighting and bridges and the cyclists are still allowed to use the dead lane inches away from trucks, buses and cars travelling at 100KPH

Your more then welcome to get a bike and take advantage of the free service ;)

The main prob with our country is the fact people are soo busy complaining about the minor things...
What is the saying 'if you don't like it leave'... The fact that I have considered it truly saddens me!

[isuzutoo-eh]

Some riders are good .... and some are just pure tossers


Cheers
Mike

Just like motorists ;)

[jc109]

Ahh, Weeds, nicely put. I agree completely. It's just a shame that there are so many ignorant and bigoted fools in this world.

[Grimace]

On ya Phillip ... We have plenty of them in Perth .....
I love the way they shift from left to right on a road and THEN look behind to see traffic ....

Some riders are good .... and some are just pure tossers


Cheers
Mike

But have you never seen a motor vehicle do stupid stuff on the road???

Obviously I am just in a rant mode, cause I generally wouldn't bother replying to these sorts of threads, but I just have to today :D

Try being on both sides of the fence...

There are good and **** drivers/riders everywhere, Die hard pedestrians complain about everthing, die hard cyclist complain about cars, cars owners complain about cyclist...
Then there is people like me who understand that its not really an important aspect of my life to worry about such trivial crap... I find myself smiling more often, and can complain about cyclist, motorist & pedestrians if needed, but I do my best not to. I understand some people are not as clever as others.

eg. left lane unless over taking.... Australians are the worst road users ever. But I can't complain cause they just don't know any better.

[Drover]

.

Personally why should I have to pay $1000 a year to register each of my vehciles when I only use one at a time.

The cost of a license should be the main expense, not rego. If you can drive a car and would like the priviledge you pay for it on your license.

I haver said it numerous times, licensing should cost $600 a year, that covers your arse in a Third Party claim, then you pay a minor amount for each vehicle you own, it can still be GVM or cylinder based, but make it a lot less... like $200 max...



This is the best option by far...

A friend has an insurance policy for his motor bike just like that. He list all 3 of his bikes on the policy, all 3 are covered for theft but only the bike he is riding is covered for accidents.

His premium is equal to one of my bike policies.

[weeds]

are your guys serious..........or just good jurno's

i ride three to four days a week, a spread of commuting and social rides on the weekend

and guess what........i also drive the same roads you guys drive and i rarely, if ever see bike riders doing anything more wrong than those driving cars

may you happen to be in the right place at the right time......or just poor drivers

[EchiDna]

we all speed in our cars
we all break what we construe as "minor" laws while driving every day (i.e. not completely stopping at stop signs, not giving way when we should, not indicating sufficiently, not leaving enough space between ourselves and the car ahead)...
we are all in a rush, all the time.
Anything that impedes us in our normal drive is considered a pain in the preverbial... no matter if that is a truck with a long wide load, an underpowered caravan towing buzz box, a cyclist, a courier, delivery or taxi driver pulling over "randomly" to drop a package or pick up a passenger... so why the angst specifically against cyclists?

From what I've seen this angst rarely (if ever) extends beyond the urban fringe. Why is it ok for drivers to be patient to get around slower moving road users on country roads? i.e. tractors, caravans, cyclists... do you refuse to talk to them in the camp ground kitchen? I don't get it.

Is it because drivers wish they could choose to run a light? or maybe because the affliction that so troubles them to get past is back in front of them again? really?

The reality is that many cyclists who roll through red lights do so to try and get away from the traffic, to get a slice of clear road while they can, to give the drivers more time and space to move across a lane so that you can pass them in a safer manner. If traffic is heavy, then in all honesty there will always be some conflict between various road users. We all wish we could drive/ride at 60km/hr constantly to our destination, but traffic buildup is due to the total traffic density *duh*, of which cyclists represent a minority.

I know that when I ride solo I will run the odd red light when there is zero traffic about (I ride mainly pre-dawn from about 4am to 7:30am during the week when there is light traffic at most). When I ride at these times, I regularly see cars and delivery trucks doing the same thing (red light cameras are rare here) - but I wouldn't do the same in my car and I don't do the same if there is traffic to witness it. This would not change if I had a rego plate.

When I ride with my club, we do not roll through red lights, ever. Yes I am one of those lycra clad hooligans. No I am not middle aged and fat, unless you call 179cm and 71kg fat (among racing cyclists, that is relatively heavy!).

[sam_d]

I am a commuter cyclist and don't like to get tarred with the same brush as those cyclist who break the law any more than I (or anyone on this forum) likes to be lumped in with the same 4WD driving idiots who post videos of themselves tearing up tracks on Youtube.

Those idiots ripping up tracks are not *all* 4WD drivers - they're just the ones that get noticed, just as those cyclists running red lights aren't *all* cyclists - they're just the ones you have noticed.

[Ausfree]

Tell you what, there is NO WAY I would ride a treadly on a public road. As a heavy vehicle driver I see enough of idiots in cars who seem to be on a death wish. It's bad enough trying to dodge these people in a heavy vehicle, but I would be scared ****less on a pushbike.

As a treadly rider you really don't know if that person coming up behind you is drunk/drugged/texting/in a bad mood/just a maniac etc. If he/she hits a heavy vehicle they come off second best but if they hit you on a pushbike, you could very easily be just roadkill!!!

My 2 cents worth!!!:D

[tomalophicon]

Tell you what, there is NO WAY I would ride a treadly on a public road. As a heavy vehicle driver I see enough of idiots in cars who seem to be on a death wish. It's bad enough trying to dodge these people in a heavy vehicle, but I would be scared ****less on a pushbike.

As a treadly rider you really don't know if that person coming up behind you is drunk/drugged/texting/in a bad mood/just a maniac etc. If he/she hits a heavy vehicle they come off second best but if they hit you on a pushbike, you could very easily be just roadkill!!!

My 2 cents worth!!!:D

Good call.

They should just elevate bike tracks like the monorail and there'd be no more problems. Fund it by cyclists paying a buck a piece to use it.

[mike 90 RR]

Just like motorists ;)

Correct .....


But have you never seen a motor vehicle do stupid stuff on the road???

All the time .... WA has the best of the worst available, that this glorious country can offer :D




are your guys serious..........

Absolutely .... Early Sunday morning brings out mobs of them .... I've got groups of Lycra riders that venture between Guildford to Maylands ... The main pack is organised, it's the "twin pack" or solo rider that can do some mind boggling manoeuvres



BTW ... The road is for ALL users ... bikes n cars .... all need to consider the safety of each other, and my vote is for NO rego of cyclists

[MR LR]

Personally i can't see rego for cyclists ever happening, maybe it should, but how would they ever police it or manage it. BUT what i think they should have is some kind of a licence to ride on MAIN roadways, anything more than suburban streets, because quite frankly some of these people (mainly the ones that obviously don't have cars, due to how they ride) ride like absolute dick heads, its ridiculous, when i was on my L's i nearly killed 3 cyclists over that space of 12 months, ALL AT THEIR OWN FAULT, they never ever stop at stop signs or red lights (yes i know some of you have seen it, but this is my opinion and i haven't), cut in front of you without indicating, and generally do all this stupid stuff, now people in cars do the exact same things (cutting you off etc.) but they are all travelling at a speed around what you are, (if a car travelling at 60km/h cuts in front of you, when you are travelling in the next lane at 70km/h there is a 10km/h difference in speed, if a cyclist does that at 25km/h there is a whopping 45km/h difference in speed, they will be road kill), when cyclists are in the way they are going slow, there is too much difference in speed to be SAFE, if i didn't have a good enough idea fo defensive driving ALL those 3 cyclists would have been hit, no joke, one of them was extremely lucky when i missed a gear, had i grabbed it with the car on full boost he would have been flat. It is for their own safety that i think they should have licences and be AWARE of what happens around them instead of just plodding along with their stupid ipod's jammed in their ears with a row of traffic banked up, no wonder we get ****ed off.

Cheers
Will

[Tank]

If all cyclists were law abiding citizens who considered others and did not block traffic on major roads in peak hour then all of the above would be sweetness and light.
Unfortunately the cyclists that I met and dealt with every day on Sydney roads were in the majority selfish people who considered nobody but themselves, wilfully obstructed traffic because it was "their right", ran stop signs, ran red lights , rode on footpaths scattering pedestrians, and gave the cops the "bird" when one tried to pull them over because there was no way of identifying them.( IMHO that is why the cops want number plates, not to tax)

IMHO the reason motorists dislike bikes is all of the above. I have seen a lone cyclist in low gear ride up Spit Hill with 5 fully loaded buses struggling to keep moving behind it. I used to ride a motorcycle in every day for 5 years and on numerous occasions two bikes abreast in the bus lane would just sit there and baulk me, because it was their "rights" .

If cyclists are so concerned with fitness why not get off the main roads and ride along the suburban streets that are often blocked off to cars, eg the roads along Mossman which start at Spit Hill and rejoin up near the bridge.A bit hillier but hey , isn't it all about fitness, or is being public nuisances more important to the majority.

Regards Philip A
3 cheers for PhilipA, he's hit the nail on the head, plates on bikes would give me great joy, Regards Frank.

[bee utey]

One thing the government(s) should do is ban those hideous lycra body suits. They're not helping anyone.



I love this. Why should cyclists have to wear the equivalent of a burka just so your delicate eyeballs aren't strained? Lycra is the uniform for cyclists for a very good reason, it works! The fact that you notice them is a positive benefit, you can avoid running them over as you cringe past!:p:p:p

I find builder's crack offensive, should builders be banned from wearing King Gee shorts???:eek:

I find stretched footie shorts offensive, should players be forced to wear baggy board shorts???:cool:

I find olympic athletes' cozzie offensive, should I look the other way and pray for my non-existent soul to be spared from peril???:D

Or grow some tolerance???:):):)

[bee utey]

3 cheers for PhilipA, he's hit the nail on the head, plates on bikes would give me great joy, Regards Frank.

Excellent! :) You can add their rego numbers to the list of countless thousands of motorists and motor bikers and bus drivers and truckies you already report to the traffic police every year...(and that the police act on???);)

[Marshall]

Holland. They have the cycle world well sorted.

More bikes than you can poke a stick at... Grandmothers, parents with two kids on special seats, students with two crates of beer, bikes that look like a flash wheelbarrow, pro riders they have it all.
There are bike lanes everywhere... except on major arterials like the A1 for example (our equivalant of the Hume Hwy or the M5) where it is illegal to cycle and I wouldn't have dared anyway... FWIW, I don't think people should be cycling on the "M" roads here. Speeds are higher, and death is a lot more likely for a cyclist involved in an accident. Add to which, there are plenty of back roads that will get you to where you are going...
On streets where there is a traffic light, there is also a traffic light for the bikes in the bike lane, this is mostly obeyed, but like anyone on the road, people will always walk / ride / drive through a red light, so what? a bike rider will generally do it a lot safer than a car because they know if they get hit, they are dead...
As for policing, Holland have a lot of police officers on bikes. If you are riding at night, without a light on the front and back, thats 50euros thanks. Quite often, they set up "traps" and ping a bucket load of cyclists at once. They then have a little stand where if you don't want to pay 50euros, you can buy a set of lights for 25euros. You also have to have a bell on your bike.
I had to do a driving test when I lived there, and bikes generally have right of way, they are more vulnerable, so you have to look out for them and you pay a lot more attention whilst driving...

It seems to me that they have grown up used to having bikes on the roads, so there is not a problem unlike here. The Dutch have it sorted, we could learn a lot from their system and their tolerance... :p

I have read a lot of posts on this forum where people whinge and whine about being charged for this and that and yet those same people seem to be all for putting a rego on bikes! oh the hypocrisy!
Bikes are here to stay, get over yourself and get used to it!


Add to this, they don't wear helmets!:eek: How do they survive?:o

[stealth]

Bicycle V Motor Vehicle rage/angst. One of the really really really big important social issues of the modern city/suburbia lifestyle. Spare me!!!!!

[ramblingboy42]

sounds like most of you need a good dose of "get out of the city" none of this **** happens outside of the city. change your culture, change your lifestyle, slow down, relax....GET OUT OF THE CITY!

[amtravic1]

Cyclists are (mostly) a pest on the roads. I work in the inner city suburbs and need a car for work. Every day I see stupid cyclists on the road who think they have more rights than anyone else. One minute they are riding on he footpath to take advantage of pedestrian rules and then think they can ride on the road and take up a full lane that I pay taxes to use. They can not be identified and rarely obey road laws.
Many Victorian roads have had the the traffic flow ruined by the previous government which put in bike lanes everywhere which then reduced good flowing roads to roads with just 1.5 traffic lanes. It does not work, and what for, just to please a very minority group of users.
As far as I am concerned I should get bonus points on my licence for driving the pests off the road.
Push bike riders should grow up and buy a proper bike, a motor bike.

[Tombie]

Cyclists are (mostly) a pest on the roads. I work in the inner city suburbs and need a car for work. Every day I see stupid cyclists on the road who think they have more rights than anyone else. One minute they are riding on he footpath to take advantage of pedestrian rules and then think they can ride on the road and take up a full lane that I pay taxes to use. They can not be identified and rarely obey road laws.
Many Victorian roads have had the the traffic flow ruined by the previous government which put in bike lanes everywhere which then reduced good flowing roads to roads with just 1.5 traffic lanes. It does not work, and what for, just to please a very minority group of users.
As far as I am concerned I should get bonus points on my licence for driving the pests off the road.
Push bike riders should grow up and buy a proper bike, a motor bike.

I believe the intention is to reduce each cities dependence on Motor vehicles and promote alternative transport methods...

Hence the ridiculous parking fee charges in Melbourne as well...

Lets face it, we could ALL benefit from a bit more exercise on a treadly etc...

And would save on Fuel and gymnasium costs :cool:

[MR LR]

Push bike riders should grow up and buy a proper bike, a motor bike.

HAHAHA i love this quote :D. I'm a dirtbike man, i also ride mountain bikes, but will never ever ride on a road any busier than a suburban road, there are too many people with no idea, so i don't get in their way (which cylcists do). I believe there is a place for cycling, but its not on the road with cars. :)

[PhilipA]

I just want to clarify.

I am not against all bikes , just those on major arterial roads in Sydney ( Brisbane /Melbourne -your city here) peak hour. The behaviour of the riders in these circumstances is generally poor and exacerbates the already bad humour of car drivers. Motorcycles also seem to cause bad humour but I don't curse all drivers, just the ones who try to kill me.

It is also partly the gummit's fault for not building cycleways like in Melbourne along the Yarra. Apparently the residents of Mosman would object to cycleways along the foreshore.It seems to me that where viable alternatives exist like along the quiet streets of Mosman and Cammeray, then cyclists should be compelled to leave the arterial and follow the quiet streets , many of which are blocked off to cars. In fact some bikes do ride up Parrawi Road ( and some ride up the footpath to Spit Junction-which helps traffic but not old ladies) which is forbidden to cars and this really helps traffic but many don't.
Unfortunately there are many bike "zealots" in the RMS ex RTA who put up posters and do ad campaigns about "sharing the road!!!" what bloody road?, and they will not even consider some direction of bikes off arterial roads.Or even one road side footpath for bikes and one for people like the Harbour Bridge.

I have owned several bikes and tried to ride up until my fractured coccyx just hurt too much.

I don't think the reactions of bike riders in reversals about drivers are very helpful, and really just cement existing driver's attitudes. And yes there may be an element of jealousy by drivers when riders get away with illegal stuff in front of cops because they cannot be identified.
Regards Philip A

[bob10]

I'm a cyclist, and try to do as much as I can for fitness [ and to get my doctor off my case] but I have to say those lycra clad wannabes really **** me off . They seem to think they have a God given right to take over the road, the one thing I wish to say is, never seen a professional rider out our way, just those on the tour de suburbs. Middle age lycra clad cycists? get over the crisis, people. Bob

[EchiDna]

I've seen many of these arguements used in the case for banning 4x4's in the city - they clog up the roads, move too slowly, danger to other road users etc etc... Quite simply, more people in our cities means more traffic - do you really, honestly think that cyclists being 100% off the roads would solve the traffic flow issues that come with a continuously expanding population in the major cities, which means more cars on a non-expanding road network?

[PhilipA]

No but it would help as would a range of small changes, such as
bus stops moved into side streets or indented on all arteries,
contra flows on major arteries,
delays on lights on side streets( I can never understand why people let people out of side streets without a wait ) ,
clearways on all major roads,
filtering of traffic onto expressways,
time of day tolling,
and the biggie- removal of all tax incentives for company passenger cars.

The RMS in Sydney does not MANAGE traffic as such. I can recall on several occasions ringing their number and telling them that there was a 1Km tailback on Burnt Bridge, and seeing lots of cars rat running down the Wakehurst Parkway. They expressed thanks and then rephased the lights several times, and I thought to myself "what are they doing with all their TV cameras?"
I even discussed this with senior RTA people at some Premier's forums I attended. All they do is count the cars and phase the lights. They don't say "hey where did these cars come from. Are they rat runners? They could have much freer traffic flow if they made concious decisions to give the major road much more priority.
Another one I remember completely was during the big bushfires about 10 years ago. I was driving along Windsor Road, which at the time was the ONLY road North open out of Sydney. Lo and behold there is a Stop Go man stopping traffic so his contractor could work on the side of the road. with about 3-4Kms of traffic banked up.
I rang the RTA and spoke to the only engineer on duty who was at the F3 , trying to reopen it as the fires crossed it, and couldn't come.
I got to the stop go man and said words to the effect that I had called the RTA and he should clear the road and to ring the RTA, to be abused by the flagman.
LUNACY!!!!
Regards Philip A

[HUE166]

I believe the intention is to reduce each cities dependence on Motor vehicles and promote alternative transport methods...

Hence the ridiculous parking fee charges in Melbourne as well...

Lets face it, we could ALL benefit from a bit more exercise on a treadly etc...

And would save on Fuel and gymnasium costs :cool:

Actually, many of us would not. I have far too greater distances to cover and would be severely disadvantaged if I had to ride a push bike to work. I am another anti cyclist lobbier. They really do create a great deal of angst, safety concern, and disruption to our road network. They should be made to pay rego or get off the road.

There are a great deal of cyclists that believe it's a good idea to ride along my road where the speed limit is 100kph. There are many blind corners and crests and they insist on riding two and three abreast. I have very nearly cleaned a few up at such points in the road and have received angry hand and arm gestures as if I were at fault.

I'm sorry, I have no time for them or their idiotic culture.

[Blknight.aus]

There are a great deal of cyclists that believe it's a good idea to ride along my road where the speed limit is 100kph. There are many blind corners and crests and they insist on riding two and three abreast. I have very nearly cleaned a few up at such points in the road and have received angry hand and arm gestures as if I were at fault.

I'm sorry, I have no time for them or their idiotic culture.[/SIZE][/FONT]

as is their right, one vehicle one lane and its a vehicle.

by the letter of the law you were at fault.

and with an attitude like yours I fell compelled to state "its the law, sucks to be you."

[Blknight.aus]

Correct .....



All the time .... WA has the best of the worst available, that this glorious country can offer :D







They also have the best bike circuits and public transport. I've raced cars from warwick to freemantle and beaten the cars and for lest cost than the cars fuel and that was when fuel was <70c/l

[HUE166]

as is their right, one vehicle one lane and its a vehicle.

by the letter of the law you were at fault.

and with an attitude like yours I fell compelled to state "its the law, sucks to be you."

So do you really think it is reasonable to expect a cyclist, travelling at cycle speed, to have the right to block a lane within a 100kph zone over a blind crest or around a blind corner, and not expect to be placing themselves in danger of being very quickly caught up by traffic approaching from behind? This is clearly a fundamentally dangerous presumption.

I refuse to get caught up with comments regarding others' attitudes.

Cyclists are involved in many accidents that occur daily on our roads. It is time that our policy makers showed some responsibility and legislated against such stupidity.

[tomalophicon]

I love this. Why should cyclists have to wear the equivalent of a burka just so your delicate eyeballs aren't strained? Lycra is the uniform for cyclists for a very good reason, it works! The fact that you notice them is a positive benefit, you can avoid running them over as you cringe past!:p:p:p

I find builder's crack offensive, should builders be banned from wearing King Gee shorts???:eek:

I find stretched footie shorts offensive, should players be forced to wear baggy board shorts???:cool:

I find olympic athletes' cozzie offensive, should I look the other way and pray for my non-existent soul to be spared from peril???:D

Or grow some tolerance???:):):)

What do I eat to grow this tolerance?

[bob10]

as is their right, one vehicle one lane and its a vehicle.

by the letter of the law you were at fault

Good try, read the law Bob

[Grimace]

Cyclists are (mostly) a pest on the roads. I work in the inner city suburbs and need a car for work. Every day I see stupid cyclists on the road who think they have more rights than anyone else. One minute they are riding on he footpath to take advantage of pedestrian rules and then think they can ride on the road and take up a full lane that I pay taxes to use. They can not be identified and rarely obey road laws.
Many Victorian roads have had the the traffic flow ruined by the previous government which put in bike lanes everywhere which then reduced good flowing roads to roads with just 1.5 traffic lanes. It does not work, and what for, just to please a very minority group of users.
As far as I am concerned I should get bonus points on my licence for driving the pests off the road.
Push bike riders should grow up and buy a proper bike, a motor bike.

Wow, your typing skills are well advanced for a primary school student!

[QLDMIKE]

If a cyclist causes an accident and people get injured. Whose insurnce covers this? The cyclist had no third party insurance.

[uninformed]

I have riden many times from a young age untill now. Not a cyclist but just to get from A to B for what ever. From a drivers perspective I dont say pay rego I say FOLLOW THE BLOODY ROAD RULES. If all cyclists did there would be far less agro.

So many guys riding big $$$$$ bikes on the GC all in the name of coffee....such a ****.

If im turning left and im in front of you, dont expect me to give way just beacue you are now moving faster than traffic and are coming up my inside..........just one of many examples.

ooh and red lights apply to cyclists also....

[HUE166]

Using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Enabling police officers to do their job properly and patrol the streets to enforce all road rules would be a better scenario. Put the police on bicycles and let them ping pedestrians, cyclists, cars, whatever.

I could possibly support rego for cyclists if you could show conclusively that registration works at stopping all antisocial behavoiur of motorists and motor bikers. I would love so much to be able to fine every idiot who drifts across the lane lines into my path or shines their poorly adjusted lights into my eyes, to mention just a couple of common misdemeanors. I can't read their number plates at any distance anyway. How are these common morons in any way inhibited by registration?

Anyway, don't ask for something that you will regret, registering bicycles won't improve the traffic at all. It's just a wish for petty revenge.

In the fullness of time all people will be microchipped and road sensors will be able to monitor (and tax and fine) your every move. Will you be happy then?:):):)

As for yearly rego checks, how would that work? Put a bell on for the check, remove it once you get out the door. And the other 364 days? I don't get it.

Poorly adjusted lights?? how about flashing strobes on idiot bikes that are installed without any professional adjustment at all.

If I want to put another vehicle on the road, apart from those that I have already registered, I know that I will have to register the extra vehicle.

Show me a unified standard with the the road worthiness, rider knowledge, limitations, or at least where such is benchmarked and observed legally by all cyclists, and I will then graciously concede that registration of cycles and licensing of riders is not necessary. Until then I am quite satisfied that, under the current status quo, push bikes and their riders need regulatory control.

It is, if not for greater efficiency on our roads, in the best interest of the safety of those on the pushbikes and those with whom they share the roads.

[uninformed]

as is their right, one vehicle one lane and its a vehicle.

by the letter of the law you were at fault.

and with an attitude like yours I fell compelled to state "its the law, sucks to be you."

its also illeagal to go slower than the speed limit by a certain %......

but im sure your word/web smith will prove some obscure exception that proves the rule

[Grimace]

p.s. I am calling Inc in on this one, I am pretty sure he closed the does god exist thread and stated that any thread like it would not be tolerated...
This thread is exactly like the complete rubbish that was once contained in the above mentioned, now closed thread.

Pointless dribble from a minority of upset muppets, cause they had to wait 1.6 more seconds for a cyclist while ignoring the 25minute wait that about 200 other road users caused around them...:angel:

Obviously I have had a bad day, I am opting out of this thread as its simply not worth my time.

I now agree to BAN cyclist to prevent threads like this from reapearing in the future.
I am also going to start a charity that goes around and removes all childrens bicycles from their possesion, and take them to the scrap yard free of charge. Then use the cash to buy more beer, and pay my already ridiculous rego fees.

[HUE166]

p.s. I am calling Inc in on this one, I am pretty sure he closed the does god exist thread and stated that any thread like it would not be tolerated...
This thread is exactly like the complete rubbish that was once contained in the above mentioned, now closed thread.

Pointless dribble from a minority of upset muppets, cause they had to wait 1.6 more seconds for a cyclist while ignoring the 25minute wait that about 200 other road users caused around them...:angel:

Obviously I have had a bad day, I am opting out of this thread as its simply not worth my time.

I now agree to BAN cyclist to prevent threads like this from reapearing in the future.
I am also going to start a charity that goes around and removes all childrens bicycles from their possesion, and take them to the scrap yard free of charge. Then use the cash to buy more beer, and pay my already ridiculous rego fees.

Grimace,

There is a great deal more wrong with pushbikes on the road than drivers waiting an extra second or two. I have had so many close calls on my home road with cyclists that it is a real concern of mine that more people are going to die "because they have the legal right to". Two have already been killed on pushbikes on the same road over the last ten years.

There are real reasons why push bikes are dangerous on many roads. Why do you think there are restrictions for pushbikes on freeways? Why are other main thoroughfares any different?

There have been many valid points raised within this thread alone that add enormous weight to the argument against pushbikes remaining unregulated.

There's no need to remove pushbikes from children, just don't let them ride on public roads. Simple.

Those wanting to push the argument in favour of pushbikes are just asking for more injuries and deaths to occur. I don't fear so much for my own safety. It is that of the pushbike rider that I may, one day, have a collision with and then have to live with that memory for ever more. It's just not worth it.

There's nothing wrong with this thread. It is just that the argument, as you see it, is not progressing well due to the sheer weight of logical argument against your cause. This is not a theological debate at all. It concerns hard, physical science and is made more serious by the facet of social science that injects the potential of random outcomes. Those random outcomes do occur.

It's not a trendy thing to "hate" pushbike riders. It's a healthy thing to argue against them. I know it's hard to argue against that. That's why it is a pertinant truth.

[Ausfree]

The God Thread has gone!!!:eek: Crikey I never noticed!!:o (fumbles around trying to find it) Hey, that Thread was full of um.....ah....... cripes, I won't sleep now!!:wasntme:

[Ratel10mm]

"Imagine having to explain to foreigners that we are the only nation in the world where riding a bicycle - a global transport solution that is way older than the car - requires a licence."

We aren't. I remember my parents paying rego for our deadly treadlys in South Africa. The licence plate was a medallion about an inch across iirc, made of brass or bronze &, via a hole cast in the licence disk, was bolted to the front axle.


And yes, cyclists can & often are BLOODY DANGEROUS. At least in London. Riding on pavements, over pedestrian crossings with kids still crossing, etc. Ignoring red lights is a favourite. How more of them aren't killed I don't know.
I rode a bike everywhere as a youngster, including around Oxford where it was often faster than driving. But I wouldn't ride in London.

[uninformed]

hey Grimace, make sure you leave your bat and ball behind mate....

[Grimace]

Grimace,

There is a great deal more wrong with pushbikes on the road than drivers waiting an extra second or two. I have had so many close calls on my home road with cyclists that it is a real concern of mine that more people are going to die "because they have the legal right to". Two have already been killed on pushbikes on the same road over the last ten years.

There are real reasons why push bikes are dangerous on many roads. Why do you think there are restrictions for pushbikes on freeways? Why are other main thoroughfares any different?

There have been many valid points raised within this thread alone that add enormous weight to the argument against pushbikes remaining unregulated.

There's no need to remove pushbikes from children, just don't let them ride on public roads. Simple.

Those wanting to push the argument in favour of pushbikes are just asking for more injuries and deaths to occur. I don't fear so much for my own safety. It is that of the pushbike rider that I may, one day, have a collision with and then have to live with that memory for ever more. It's just not worth it.

There's nothing wrong with this thread. It is just that the argument, as you see it, is not progressing well due to the sheer weight of logical argument against your cause. This is not a theological debate at all. It concerns hard, physical science and is made more serious by the facet of social science that injects the potential of random outcomes. Those random outcomes do occur.

It's not a trendy thing to "hate" pushbike riders. It's a healthy thing to argue against them. I know it's hard to argue against that. That's why it is a pertinant truth.

Ok I get it...



































BAN cars too... :D

May aswell ban roads... everyone can walk!

[uninformed]

Ok I get it...



































BAN cars too... :D

May aswell ban roads... everyone can walk!

as long as YOU rickshaw my trailer to work

[Grimace]

as long as YOU rickshaw my trailer to work

Sorry Trailers are also banned. :D

[HUE166]

Sorry Trailers are also banned. :D

Why? Mine are all registered and paid in full.

[Grimace]

Why? Mine are all registered and paid in full.

Because I once seen a trailer run over a pedestrians foot.


Ahh I must say, I am having a much better time this evening then I had today. :)

[uninformed]

Sorry Trailers are also banned. :D

Sick! means I cant work....but I can still surf.

If roads are banned does that mean open house for LR to go 4x4 anywhere.....

I know make a comp track completely out of pushies and cyclists.....good traction

[Grimace]

Sick! means I cant work....but I can still surf.

If roads are banned does that mean open house for LR to go 4x4 anywhere.....

I know make a comp track completely out of pushies and cyclists.....good traction


I dont know, I think surfing should also be banned. so you can only swim in the ocean... actually swimming in the ocean is Banned now.

[uninformed]

I just banned banning....so its all on again.

[MR LR]

I just banned banning....so its all on again.
Legend, so since banning is now banned, can we just walk round with RPG's eliminating people that block our lanes?

[Ratel10mm]

Oh please, oh please!!! :D

I once asked the boss for a large APC as my co. van. Figured the incompetents of all persuasions would keep out the way of one of them.
Oddly enough, he thought I was joking.

[bee utey]

What do I eat to grow this tolerance?

Tofu?:D:D:D

Seriously, growing up helps grow tolerance, for some people. And anyway, who are you to deny the rights of women (and homos) from lusting after some lycra-tight male ass?:)

[tomalophicon]

Well I'm growing up as fast as Jesus designed. ;)

The male version of the lycra suit is called 'Mantyhose'! :D

[bee utey]

Poorly adjusted lights?? how about flashing strobes on idiot bikes that are installed without any professional adjustment at all.

If I want to put another vehicle on the road, apart from those that I have already registered, I know that I will have to register the extra vehicle.

Show me a unified standard with the the road worthiness, rider knowledge, limitations, or at least where such is benchmarked and observed legally by all cyclists, and I will then graciously concede that registration of cycles and licensing of riders is not necessary. Until then I am quite satisfied that, under the current status quo, push bikes and their riders need regulatory control.

It is, if not for greater efficiency on our roads, in the best interest of the safety of those on the pushbikes and those with whom they share the roads.

The Australian Road Rules deal quite well with bicycle rules of use and maintenance. The fact is, cyclists like motorists have a minority who don't like obeying rules and will suffer if caught out.

As for bike registration, how does that help you to improve safety on the road? It's not your job to report every cyclist who misbehaves, and certainly it appears if you tried the police would take no notice. It's the job of the police to patrol the traffic, and if a cyclist is caught and doesn't have any identifying document they should be able to hold him until he can provide it.

FYI I am an occasional cyclist (twice a week on average) and I hate main roads because of a minority of motorists who think they own the road due to paying rego for it (and arrogantly proclaim it). These motorists are a danger to all road users with their stupidity and should be re-educated. I for one try not to get in their way as I am unlikely to win an argument with two tons of tin. So don't worry about me adding 5 seconds to your commute or getting stuck in your muddy treads.

[HUE166]

The Australian Road Rules deal quite well with bicycle rules of use and maintenance. The fact is, cyclists like motorists have a minority who don't like obeying rules and will suffer if caught out.

As for bike registration, how does that help you to improve safety on the road? It's not your job to report every cyclist who misbehaves, and certainly it appears if you tried the police would take no notice. It's the job of the police to patrol the traffic, and if a cyclist is caught and doesn't have any identifying document they should be able to hold him until he can provide it.

FYI I am an occasional cyclist (twice a week on average) and I hate main roads because of a minority of motorists who think they own the road due to paying rego for it (and arrogantly proclaim it). These motorists are a danger to all road users with their stupidity and should be re-educated. I for one try not to get in their way as I am unlikely to win an argument with two tons of tin. So don't worry about me adding 5 seconds to your commute or getting stuck in your muddy treads.

I fully understand that not all on pushbikes are rule-breakers and dangerous. I can also relate to that feeling of road ownership because I have paid the duty in order to drive my vehicles on public roads.

It's not just an issue of pushbike registration. Rider licensing should also be an issue. There is no training, no proficiency checking, no age restrictions, no quality assurance at all. I fail to see how an argument is being expressed (even as poorly as the pro-pushbike one here) without any substance to back it up.

Without any quality assurance, there is no benchmark of safety.

What about the insurance issue that was raised earlier? I haven't heard a reply to that, much less one with any substance. I can't possibly see how there could be.

Independently of this thread, this issue is gaining substantial momentum and is bound to come to a head soon.

[bee utey]

I fully understand that not all on pushbikes are rule-breakers and dangerous. I can also relate to that feeling of road ownership because I have paid the duty in order to drive my vehicles on public roads.

It's not just an issue of pushbike registration. Rider licensing should also be an issue. There is no training, no proficiency checking, no age restrictions, no quality assurance at all. I fail to see how an argument is being expressed (even as poorly as the pro-pushbike one here) without any substance to back it up.

Without any quality assurance, there is no benchmark of safety.

What about the insurance issue that was raised earlier? I haven't heard a reply to that, much less one with any substance. I can't possibly see how there could be.

Independently of this thread, this issue is gaining substantial momentum and is bound to come to a head soon.

Governments should set up better training for ALL road users during school years and afterwards. That this is sorely lacking should be very clear. As it should also be apparent, granting a drivers licence doesn't automatically make a driver behave responsibly. How would licensing cyclists work any better? Adult cyclists mostly have drivers licences as well, and should by rights be fully aware of the rules. The fact that many cyclists flout rules indicates they are probably poor drivers too...

As for insurance, many cyclists are covered by insurance, as they wouldn't want to be sued for all they are worth. I'm not talking about unemployed bogans here, I am talking about the lycra clad carbon bike warriors who dare traffic for the adrenalin trip. Many of them have insurance through cycling organisations, some have off-property insurance that covers them for public liability. And if the motorist who comes to grief (due to a cyclist) has comprehensive insurance, it's the insurance company's job to seek damages from the cyclist. If you don't carry comp insurance you're just as much at risk of financial loss from being hit by an unlicenced driver in an unroadworthy and unregistered car and probably over the limit. In fact I would think this risk far outweighs the risk from cyclist impact.

I hope this issue does indeed make it into the political sphere, I can't wait to see how it will tie in with the carbon emission reduction goals of the government. Will the Australian government again become the laughing stock of the western world? Wait and see....

[Blknight.aus]

So do you really think it is reasonable to expect a cyclist, travelling at cycle speed, to have the right to block a lane within a 100kph zone over a blind crest or around a blind corner, and not expect to be placing themselves in danger of being very quickly caught up by traffic approaching from behind? This is clearly a fundamentally dangerous presumption.

I refuse to get caught up with comments regarding others' attitudes.

Cyclists are involved in many accidents that occur daily on our roads. It is time that our policy makers showed some responsibility and legislated against such stupidity.


Nope and I never said that... If you have an accident where you hit another vehicle from behind or the side, (be they there by right or by wrong) the basic version is you are at fault.

Many accidents also involve buildings, trees, drains, mountains barriers, pedestrians, camels, cows, roos, emus, trucks, fourwheel drives and trains. Some also involve planes ships and boats.



Show me a unified standard with the the road worthiness, rider knowledge, limitations, or at least where such is benchmarked and observed legally by all cyclists, and I will then graciously concede that registration of cycles and licensing of riders is not necessary. Until then I am quite satisfied that, under the current status quo, push bikes and their riders need regulatory control.
[/SIZE][/FONT]

I can show you that for motor vehicles, can you demonstrate a "populous complete" legal compliance to those acts? There are already some rules that apply to cyclists in regards to the condition of a bike to be ridden on a public thorough fare. Belive it or not in perth there was a small section of the police that worked the swan/kings park and the senic riding tracks out towards where the casino is. They also took care of the pushbike couriers and other dangerous low key offenders


its also illeagal to go slower than the speed limit by a certain %......

but im sure your word/web smith will prove some obscure exception that proves the rule

No need, you are quite correct.

Now, in the blue corner its legal to ride a pushbike on most roads. In the red corner its illegal to go more than a certain % under the speed limit on some roads. Gentlemen lets have a clean fight, no hitting below the belt no grappling, Touch gloves and come out swinging.


In the event of a pushbike causing an accident or damage and being identified as solely liable the operator of the vehicle is responsible for the costs. Ask a push bike courier whose not real good at road rules/riding and has been dragged into the courts, especially if hes a sub contract courier.

[HUE166]

Nope and I never said that... If you have an accident where you hit another vehicle from behind or the side, (be they there by right or by wrong) the basic version is you are at fault.

Many accidents also involve buildings, trees, drains, mountains barriers, pedestrians, camels, cows, roos, emus, trucks, fourwheel drives and trains. Some also involve planes ships and boats.



I can show you that for motor vehicles, can you demonstrate a "populous complete" legal compliance to those acts? There are already some rules that apply to cyclists in regards to the condition of a bike to be ridden on a public thorough fare. Belive it or not in perth there was a small section of the police that worked the swan/kings park and the senic riding tracks out towards where the casino is. They also took care of the pushbike couriers and other dangerous low key offenders



No need, you are quite correct.

Now, in the blue corner its legal to ride a pushbike on most roads. In the red corner its illegal to go more than a certain % under the speed limit on some roads. Gentlemen lets have a clean fight, no hitting below the belt no grappling, Touch gloves and come out swinging.


In the event of a pushbike causing an accident or damage and being identified as solely liable the operator of the vehicle is responsible for the costs. Ask a push bike courier whose not real good at road rules/riding and has been dragged into the courts, especially if hes a sub contract courier.

I'm not arguing that all licensed drivers and riders adhere to the rules of the road. I am referencing the fact that there is no compulsion for pushbike riders to demonstrate their knowledge, dexterity, and competence with a vehicle on the road. This is regardless of whether "most" pushbike riders hold a driver's license or otherwise.

There is still no requirement to demonstrate a minimum standard, no compulsion to learn the rules of the road, and no common thread by which a pushbike rider's conduct may be benchmarked. Licensing and registration are the obvious means by which such could be achieved. That is why we recognise these requirements to operate other road vehicles, and by payment of which, we make our fair contribution to the maintenance of the roads on which we travel.

Again, I don't "hate" pushbike riders, they just annoy the hell out of me. :D

[Bushie]

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxjm4n4umw1rn1xxfo1_400.gif

[Blknight.aus]

https://www.productsafety.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/973482
Motor Vehicles, Trailers & Bicycles (http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/motor/index.aspx)
Pedal bicycles-safety requirements (http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/614114)
http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/stock/smiley-character0052.gif

[amtravic1]

Wow, your typing skills are well advanced for a primary school student!

You clearly do not have to deal with the idiots whilst driving all day around a major city. I guess you ride a bike and are offended by the truth.

A while back I witnessed an incident when though no fault of her own, a driver was forced into a bike lane to avoid a collision. No one was hurt however the driver suffered a barage of abuse from a couple of riders. When those riders decided to venture in to my car lane a bit further up the road to avoid having to wait for a left hand turning car I politely explained they should not do that and was threatened by them as well. Lets just say they decided it was not wise to deal with a now very angry builder and rode off.

[Blknight.aus]

This is about the best accident I've witnessed that I can quote in defence of cyclists. (I have personally written off a volvo using a push bike.)

The guy on the bike was crossing the joining road at a T intersection. He'd been riding on a cycle path and the path dropped out onto the main road into a dedicated cycle lane to go across the intersection along side a pedestrian crossing to join back onto the cycle path on the other side of the joining road. All nicely marked, labled and stenciled.

The car 2 in front of the one I was in was intending to turn left into the joining road, slowed down and stopped fairly quickly, A car in the oncoming lane was waiting to turn right into the same road. I dont know if the car 2 in front had indicated or just braked but as it was perth most likely not. They were waiting on pedestrians to clear the zebra crossing.

A cyclist came through on the path, dipped onto the cycle lane and proceeded as per normal. The car turning right into the oncoming lane began to proceed through the turn (essentialy cutting off the car 2 in front of the vehicle I was in) then stopped when he saw the cyclist in his lane.

The car one in front of us decided that he wasnt waiting for this and hooked out into the blocked oncoming lane and speared into the front left corner of the car that was trying to turn across the road.

The cyclist stopped after he'd gotten clear of the road left his bike on the side of the cycle path walked back for whatever reason (presumably to give details, render assistance If it was me In hindsite Id have done it just to watch the ensuing maelstrom) and according to the driver that crashed into the oncoming car...

"Its all that cyclists fault"

[bee utey]

Every motorist has a set of favourite anecdotes "proving" the arrogance and stupidity of all or most cyclists based on the behaviour of those they meet in the traffic stream. They would like some kind of licencing to get them to behave or go away. But how would it work? Neither of those character flaws seems to be an impediment to getting a car licence! Plenty of arrogant and stupid car drivers out there.:mad:

How about mandatory testing for annual licence renewal for every road user? And an arrogance test based on the police being allowed to troll all your forum correspondence and personal mail for antisocial behaviour? This would really clear the roads, leaving lots of room for the remaining few road users to politely wave each other through...:eek:

[isuzutoo-eh]

As a member of a state cycling organisation, I and many others DO have third party insurance, covered up to $20 mil in damages to person or property. Also have coverage for my own property and self.

So you can null that argument...

[460cixy]

Don't start me on these tools. A couple of years ago I had an accident in the bush the police were the first to arrive and made the call to take me to meet the ambulance . So here we are lights sirens the works only to come up on two packs of Wally's exercising there (rights) and very reluctantly moveing off the road for us. The two officers were rather ****ed off to say the least but thanks to them I'm still here and kicking and no thanks to the tools in Lycra

[MR LR]

It seems that everyone thinks we only get annoyed at cyclists going slow and blocking lanes!!!
Anyone going unnecessarily slow (as in their vehicle and conditions are capable of doing the speed limit, if they can't what the hell are they on the road for) annoys most motorists, you can tell by the way people go around them when they get a chance :) , seriously the only reason people single out the cycling community is because they are the most obvious 'offenders', goes along with the bloody Volvo drivers and Camry driver stereotypes.
If cyclists didn't **** up the flow of traffic and cause delays motorists wouldn't have any beef with them, just because it is within their rights does not mean that people will accept it. There will continue to be arguments until we have better infrastructure that separates the modes of transport better. I'm pretty sure busses annoy us all aswell, they are within their rights (some of the time), but we get annoyed with them blocking the left hand lane etc. seriously guys this sort of thing will always be an issue, argue all you want about how YOU interpret the rules, i'll be sitting back with my popcorn.

I hope this thred doesn't get deleted, would be good in the soap box.

Cheers
Will

[weeds]

**** good thing non of you guys were in the Brisbane CBD last night.......the first style over speed event was on, approx. 100 of us dressed in suits, evening dresses, heals we had the lot riding through the street max. speed was probably 10km/hr......

[weeds]

Rode 100km this morning through the streets of Brisbane.......thank god you guys were still in bed as it appears I survived.

Mostly obeyed all road rules, from memory only road through one red arrow, failed to indicate 36 times (did indicate 3/4 times). On three occasions we mover the right lane to secure good position to make a turn, not once did the cars following appear at all worried, they were happy to share the road.....guess what only one was a landy owner thank god he knows how to drive unlike most in the thread.

Early warning.....I will be out tomorrow morning so if you all could take se chill pills and stay off the roads until maybe 10 am that would great

Well I'm glad we all agree that rego is not required

[weeds]

I'm a cyclist, and try to do as much as I can for fitness [ and to get my doctor off my case] but I have to say those lycra clad wannabes really **** me off . They seem to think they have a God given right to take over the road, the one thing I wish to say is, never seen a professional rider out our way, just those on the tour de suburbs. Middle age lycra clad cycists? get over the crisis, people. Bob

Can you give me a wide berth as I spend plenty of time on the roads in our area. I'm the one in Lycra.........

I will have to dig out my yellow jersey as the tour starts in a couple of weeks.

So you choose not the wear Lycra.....but how does this make you a better rider??

[MR LR]

Rode 100km this morning through the streets of Brisbane.......thank god you guys were still in bed as it appears I survived.

Mostly obeyed all road rules, from memory only road through one red arrow, failed to indicate 36 times (did indicate 3/4 times). On three occasions we mover the right lane to secure good position to make a turn, not once did the cars following appear at all worried, they were happy to share the road.....guess what only one was a landy owner thank god he knows how to drive unlike most in the thread.

Early warning.....I will be out tomorrow morning so if you all could take se chill pills and stay off the roads until maybe 10 am that would great

Well I'm glad we all agree that rego is not required
Come on it's the weekend, everyone is in slow mode, do that in peak hour traffic and i'm sure there will be a lot of aggrevated people wanting to get somewhere.

I agree re-rego, but i think there should be some form of licencing, or at least allow motorists to run the ones down that don't move over, its just common courtesy, too many arrogant stuck up people with all their 'rights' in this world, this is why the country is still a nicer place, people still pull over to let faster people past out there, never seen any dick head cyclists do that in sydney, until you get too close to them and they flip you off, but the **** would hit the fan if you flipped them off (literally).

I think cycling is good, i just don't agree with it on the busier roads, and those with hills, blind corners and high speed limits. Cyclists need a median strip IMO, for their own safety and so i don't get a dented bonnet. :)

Cheers
Will

[JayBoRover]

I just have to add a comment - can't help myself:D.
I'm in a bad way. You could call me a "minority" person. I drive a Land Rover or two. I ride a motorcycle or two. I ride a bicycle or two. If I drove a truck I'd be a lost cause.:D

In all cases I generally follow the road rules, generally "do the right thing" and generally respect the other road/trail users. There are occasions I might not be perfect, in all three modes. I'm sorry. Sometimes my old Series 2a just can't go as fast as the other road users and it can take a while to get "close" to the <10% speed rule. Same problem to a different extent on the bicycle, but at least I can get further out of the way and minimise the hold-up. Unfortunately it is more prolonged so more people get to notice and the problem seems worse. Truth is my old Landy is definitely a bigger road hazard than my bicycle.

I recently had a rather serious crash on the bicycle, on a major road with 110kph limit. Not a congested road ... out in the country. I had the misfortune to find myself sitting on the road with a broken hand and a broken jaw, blood pouring out and watching several cars drive around and carry on. Not one single one stopped to see if they could help or ring for an ambulance. Not one. Because I was a lycra clad cyclist? I really, really hope the world, at last our society, hasn't got to that stage. But this thread, and several others like it, have me concerned. I don't "change" into another person when I put my cycling gear on. I'm the same Land Rover driver you chat to at gatherings, maybe commenting on how well my old S2a did at keeping up with your Disco 3 or P38a or whatever.

I'll leave it at this. I'm hoping to try for my first ride this afternoon since the accident on Easter weekend. Hope I can still fit the Lycra. I'll be driving the D90 for about 5 hours tomorrow. Same guy. Same attitude. Out enjoying myself.

Have a nice day, and try to be respectful and considerate of others and their choices in life - regardless of what you're driving or riding.

[weeds]

Come on it's the weekend, everyone is in slow mode, do that in peak hour traffic and i'm sure there will be a lot of aggrevated people wanting to get somewhere.


Cheers
Will

i ride in peak hour 2-3 times a week commuting to and from work (the home run would be considered peak the raod are pretty lear at 5:30am) .......i get a few toots and the bit of verbal abuse mostly comes from young P platers in the doof doof cars or overweight tossers normally with a fag hanging out of the gob in a piece of **** car.....water of a ducks back really

[EchiDna]

Don't start me on these tools. A couple of years ago I had an accident in the bush the police were the first to arrive and made the call to take me to meet the ambulance . So here we are lights sirens the works only to come up on two packs of Wally's exercising there (rights) and very reluctantly moveing off the road for us. The two officers were rather ****ed off to say the least but thanks to them I'm still here and kicking and no thanks to the tools in Lycra

I assume you were not exercising your rights to do whatever you liked in the bush that lead you to be injured in the first place.... I also assume that the cyclists must have held you up longer than the wait once you got to hospital? no? watch you don't fall as you get off your high horse, you might get held up by cyclists on the ambulance trip...

[EchiDna]

I rode 90km from 4:40am through until 8am this morning on my TT bike solo on quiet roads. Had one near miss as an idiot overtook me, slammed on the brakes and turned left on a downhill stretch, I had to swerve out into the next lane at about 45km/hr, thankful nobody was coming up from behind...

I blew the driver a kiss as I went on my way. What a tosser...

[EchiDna]

So do you really think it is reasonable to expect a cyclist, travelling at cycle speed, to have the right to block a lane within a 100kph zone over a blind crest or around a blind corner, and not expect to be placing themselves in danger of being very quickly caught up by traffic approaching from behind? This is clearly a fundamentally dangerous presumption.

I refuse to get caught up with comments regarding others' attitudes.

Cyclists are involved in many accidents that occur daily on our roads. It is time that our policy makers showed some responsibility and legislated against such stupidity.

keep driving in the ignorance that there is never a slow moving vehicle around that bend or over that crest when its a tractor you rear end or a flock of sheep on the long paddock... hey its a 100 zone, I have my rights!

[Sleepy]

Having recently returned to bicycling, I can attest for the frustration of both riders and drivers sharing a road.

I rode to work the other day, saw 3 cars - I had to avoid 2 which did not give way to me. Straight through the stop sign!:mad:

In Victoria, we have spent millions on Bike facilities - with more planned - Including a bike only tube running along docklands.

People commuting by bicycle, arguably, reduce vehicles on the road, save stress on Public Transport, reduce pollution and keep people fit.

With all that said, I wonder whether those Lycra suits have extra shoulder room? .....to fit those Chips on your Shoulders!:wasntme:


Why shouldn't bike riders contribute ? OK pro rata, weight (or should it be pounds per square inch???) rego fee would be much less but surely the biggest burden would be Third Party insurance? Or don't riders get injured on the road?

[bob10]

Can you give me a wide berth as I spend plenty of time on the roads in our area. I'm the one in Lycra.........

I will have to dig out my yellow jersey as the tour starts in a couple of weeks.

So you choose not the wear Lycra.....but how does this make you a better rider??
Didn't say it did, just said putting on the lycra seems to make some riders Lance wannabes. You know the ones, ride 4 abreast , pass me if you can, not all are like that, I know. Just enough to be annoying, but hey, if thats all that annoys me, I can live with it. [ Even grannies on old malvern stars pass me, but I prefer to stop smell the roses, or check out the fishing spots on the way. ] Perhaps you should join a bona fide club, and compete. Bob

[sam_d]

Just a few observations from some of the post in this thread.

1) The idea that if you can't maintain your speed at the speed limit you shouldn't be on the road.
It's a speed limit. Not a speed target. Do the same people who think you must drive at the speed limit drive with the BAC level right on the limit of getting a ban? Do they maintain their credit card level at the absolute maximum they can put on it?

2) Bikes holding up traffic.
When I ride in the peak hours along Parrmatta Road in Sydney or St Kilda Road in Melbourne I (and other cyclists) pass hundreds of cars that are stuck in traffic going nowhere. If the cyclists are going faster than the cars, how can they be slowing them down? And how about over Anzac Bridge or the Harbour Bridge - there aren't cyclists on the road there but the traffic is still at a standstill in the peak hour.

3) Bikes causing traffic delays.
Drivers love to exaggerate how much they are delayed by cyclists. It's only natural to do this as they anyone who actually stops to think about it will quickly realise that most of they delays they experience when driving are due to there being too many private cars on the roads, poorly phased traffic lights, drivers blocking intersections and illegal parking for example. People are quite happy to spend a long time stuck in traffic because of these reasons (or are oblivious to them) but if they get held up by a cyclists for more than a few seconds then they get enraged about the delay in getting to the next traffic queue.

4) Traffic.
You're not in traffic. You are traffic. Half the trips made in private cars in Sydney are 5km or less (and this figure is probably true in a lot of other places). Do people really need to drive to where they're going? Okay, sometimes the answer is probably "yes" but I'll bet that generally more often than not the answers is "no".

5) Lycra.
Seriously? Is that the best argument you've got? :)

[460cixy]

I assume you were not exercising your rights to do whatever you liked in the bush that lead you to be injured in the first place.... I also assume that the cyclists must have held you up longer than the wait once you got to hospital? no? watch you don't fall as you get off your high horse, you might get held up by cyclists on the ambulance trip...


Are you for real mate? You can't seriously think rideing your malvern star in the middle of the road is more important than a human life I can't be leave it your a goose mate

[bob10]

Just a few observations from some of the post in this thread

2) Bikes holding up traffic.
When I ride in the peak hours

3) Bikes causing traffic delays.

4) Traffic.


5) Lycra.
Seriously? Is that the best argument you've got? :)
just an observation of mine.
1 speed limit .If you are obeying the road rules, no one seriously expects bikes to be up to speed limits. they do expect them not to ride thru red llights around the edge of the road, [observed] not to ride 3 & 4 abreast [observed] not to dodge in & out of traffic [observed]
2. peak hour riding- are YOU serious ? Along a bike lane I assume?
the other points are probably along the same vein.

lycra is an observation, not an argument. I don't begrudge riders getting into the moment, being sociable. I do get ****ed off with the minority of lycra " warriors" who don the garb and take over the road. Do yourself and all other road users a favour, get off the road in peak hour, unless you are in a dedicated bike lane. Bob

[weeds]

just an observation of mine.
1 speed limit .If you are obeying the road rules, no one seriously expects bikes to be up to speed limits. they do expect them not to ride thru red llights no different to cars.i canno tremeber the last time i seen a bike run a red light around the edge of the road, [observed] not to ride 3 & 4 abreast [observed once again i have never seen this] not to dodge in & out of traffic [observed cars do it all the time setting the standard?]
2. peak hour riding- are YOU serious ? Along a bike lane I assume?
the other points are probably along the same vein.

lycra is an observation, not an argument. I don't begrudge riders getting into the moment, being sociable. I do get ****ed off with the minority of lycra " warriors" who don the garb and take over the road. Do yourself and all other road users a favour, get off the road in peak hour, unless you are in a dedicated bike lane. Bob i'm fine with peak hour along with 90% of motorist, i think its the minority of motorist thats the problem lies with

catch up with ya along the road one day

[CJT]

I used to ride a motorcycle in every day for 5 years and on numerous occasions two bikes abreast in the bus lane would just sit there and baulk me, because it was their "rights" .

Is it not illegal to ride a motorcycle in a bus lane?

[mudmouse]

Bus lanes are 'special purpose' lanes, and include Transit and Truck lanes.

Riders of motorcycles (and bicycles) hold an exemption to use those lanes too.

The only one just for buses is a 'bus only' lane.



Matt.

[bee utey]

Are you for real mate? You can't seriously think rideing your malvern star in the middle of the road is more important than a human life I can't be leave it your a goose mate

Not belittling your trauma but would you whinge just as loud if you had been held up by fallen goods off a truck, road workers, a school bus, a farm tractor or another accident scene?

And the jibe about "malvern stars", is that just a cheap shot to "hilux" the opposition? Just curious, as many road bikes cost more than some cars.

It's other peoples' stupidity and arrogance, not brand name, or transport mode, what you should be arguing against.

[bob10]

catch up with ya along the road one day

Weeds, keep riding , keep smiling, one day I might show you where to catch fish, if you & your mates can slow down a bit.[ bring a change of clothes, my mates would question the lycra] ;) Bob

[460cixy]

Not belittling your trauma but would you whinge just as loud if you had been held up by fallen goods off a truck, road workers, a school bus, a farm tractor or another accident scene?

And the jibe about "malvern stars", is that just a cheap shot to "hilux" the opposition? Just curious, as many road bikes cost more than some cars.

It's other peoples' stupidity and arrogance, not brand name, or transport mode, what you should be arguing against.

Sorry I got dragged down to his level and was beaten with experience. Some things can't be helped but un less they were all deaf I'm sure they could hear the siren coming up the road. But I won't have that problem again
now they just block the road off to ride there so if I or any one else wants to go to the river for a BBQ with there family's or go for a drive in the bush they have to out of there way to do it. Spose it's better then how they used to do it full tour de frog style with cars following trying to block traffic with tools hanging out the windows trying to hand over drink bottles and crap talk about dangerous but I guess it's there right I'm just a poor ****ing motorist

[uninformed]

It IS illegal to go to slow. I lost points for it during my driving test (was doing 60 in an 80 zone, didnt know it was an 80 zone) I have asked a police mate and yes it can be enforced as it can be dangerous for many reasons. But Im 100% SURE a bike rider wont get booked....but my point is one road one set of rules. If a bike rider stuffs up and a car hits them its good night....kinda like the people that walk up to crossings and just step out thinking the white line automaticly stop all vehicles and make everyone 100% focused on them.....

Weeds, come to the GC, you will see the 3-4 abreast packs and red light runners EVERY day :(

[Ivan]

Just had an experience with one of those wonderful lycra clad cyclists with a very expensive looking bike. I was crossing the road on Anzac Parade at Redcliffe (shared vehicle and pedestrian zone) max speed 30 kph and 10 kph on the crossing bits. I stood on the edge of the crossing area waiting to cross. Vehicle stops to let me cross. I start to cross only to be almost knocked over by said Lycra Clad Moron swerving around the car to avoid rear ending him and travellng at much more than 30kph. With actions like this is it any wonder most cyclists are getting a bad name?
It was only the fact that he went by so quickly that he didn't get a smacking. Next time I see one I will be tempted to push the idiot off his bike!!!

Ivan

[uninformed]

this is the same debate that can be applied to ANYTHING.....ask ourselves, what is the common denominator ;)

[sam_d]

Last Friday I watched a silver Defender run a red light and turn into St Kilda road at a junction where people at the adjacent crossing had started cross the road. This drivers action were dangerous and illegal and it wasn't the first time I'd seen such driving at this intersection (it just stood out in my mind cos I saw the Landy).

So, in the spirit of "I saw one do something therefore they all do the same thing." do we now have to assume that *all* drivers of silvers cars are dangerous law breaking idiots? Or, is it *all* Defender drivers? Or *all* Land Rover drivers? Or just *all* Melbourne drivers? And if, for example, I had noticed that the driver was male wearing a Hawks top should we then extend the generalisation to *all* Hawks fans or *all* males?

In reality, it is just a few rogue drivers but let's not let facts get in the way of a rant eh? :)

[uninformed]

see post above yours Sam d

[Sleepy]

Some of you guys are all a bit Lycraphobic.

I wear Lycra shorts for a reason. To stop my middle aged chumba-wumba thighs from chaffing. That is all. It is not a fashion statement but a strategy to avoid walking around like John Wayne.:angel:

This post will never be verified by pics.....so don't go quoting rules at me.:p

Give it a break, cycling will only increase in numbers.....the arguments against Cyclists are very reminiscent of arguments to ban all 4wd's.

Yes some bike riders **** me....so do plenty of Car/Bus/Tram/Truck drivers.
I hate everyone else equally.;)

[tomalophicon]

Some of you guys are all a bit Lycraphobic.

I wear Lycra shorts for a reason. To stop my middle aged chumba-wumba thighs from chaffing. That is all. It is not a fashion statement but a strategy to avoid walking around like John Wayne.:angel:

This post will never be verified by pics.....so don't go quoting rules at me.:p

Give it a break, cycling will only increase in numbers.....the arguments against Cyclists are very reminiscent of arguments to ban all 4wd's.

Yes some bike riders **** me....so do plenty of Car/Bus/Tram/Truck drivers.
I hate everyone else equally.;)

You must have massive thighs. Sorry to hear that.:wasntme:

[MR LR]

You are right about society only remembering the bad offenders, that's life. The problem is cycling is still a minority on our roads, often the people that run the reds, don't stop at stop signs etc. are the ones that yell at you when they do something illegal, like not indicating so you pull out in front of them etc. It is these agro lycra clad (well they are) warriors of the road, that give us this bad perception of the cycling community, as well as all the left-ist 'rights' activists that clog up our arterials on their sunday morning jaunt, with silver vans in front and behind to make sure no car drivers can get past to get on with their day.

Call me arrogant, but i see a lot more arrogant people than me on the road every day, the cyclists 'I' encounter seem to be the most arrogant though, as they excercise their rights, and shove it down everyone elses throats.

The thing that has ****ed me off the most about cyclists though is seeing a group on the hume highway riding up Catherine hill, there is a perfectly good median strip on that hill (trust me i've been on it in the old cars), but this group decided to use the slow lane hence baulking a group of semi-trailers, when we passed them one semi was stopped to grab granny gear and get up the hill, that's what ****es me off.

I ride a pushy a few times a week, but if there is someone behind me i ALWAYS pull over to let them past, it's courtesy if you are a slow moron blocking the roads.

Cheers
Will

[Sleepy]

You must have massive thighs. Sorry to hear that.:wasntme:

Yeah, I am thinking I may need wheel arch flares on my hips to keep them legal. :lol2:

[Dave_S]

Bike haters are the same as any other group of haters. They are self righteous by nature and have a need to express anger. Being not especially bright, they do this by constructing stereotypes ("arrogant lycra clad weekend warriors who never obey road rules") and using variations on a set of tired, exaggerated anecdotes about the outrageous, immoral behaviour of those who are hated.

Anyone with any sense understands that the issues are complex and that the worst behaviour on all sides is perpetrated by a very small percentage of people. Sadly the haters are out there and they're dangerous. As pointless as it is, I do have a few comments.

1) Australians buy more bikes than cars every year and the sport is growing. On some levels, bikes are more popular than cars.

2) Australia is world renowned for the quality of its athletes in all areas of cycling sports. We are competitive in everything. From BMX to the Tour de France. From Downhill Mountain Biking to the velodrome. Those athletes are supported by a huge amateur enthusiast scene. On the world stage Australian cycling is respected and admired.

3) Registration for bikes - Do you guys seriously believe that a registration system and fees would even slightly discourage the average cyclist from using the roads? Although most people don't cycle just because it's cheap, even a hefty registration fee would pale into insignificance against an annual fuel bill for an average car. And what's a few hundred bucks to someone who will spend $2,000 on a set of wheels?

4) Debate around the relative speed and safety of vehicles is largely pointless. You don't have the right to get anywhere quickly, you are merely granted a licence to use the roads in accordance with the rules just like everyone else. While we're discussing speed, cyclists may as well start lobbying for all cars to be electronically limited to the maximum speed of the road they are on at any given time. The technology is available and it would probably be less expensive than establishing and maintaining a registration system for bikes.

5) I get hated just as much for having a Land Rover 4WD as for owning a bike. Well, five bikes. If I drove a Land Rover in lycra I'd probably be lynched.

There are many more things to say, but the main thing about haters is that they can't be reasoned with. They are like the Duracell Bunny - banging the same old drum with no meaning or purpose until, inevitably, they expire.

[Sleepy]

the cyclists 'I' encounter seem to be the most arrogant though, as they excercise their rights, and shove it down everyone elses throats.


My experience is mainly in the city both as a rider and driver.

If you ride in traffic you need to maintain a certain amount of aggression. With car drivers being just as unforgiving, there is a certain amount of "self preservation" that kicks in. You can call it "shoving" I would call it "making other road users aware of what you are doing".
Ride passively and you will end up squeezed into a gutter, or cut off.:eek:

If am driving and I see a rider with his gear on, I know he is able to move fairly swiftly through the traffic. Maintaining 40kmh is not difficult and many go a fair bit quicker. What's the drama? My GPS tells me my average moving speed driving in Melbourne is less than 50kmh.:(

There are plenty of roads which are popular with riders (Beach Road Melbourne?) if it is a nice sunny day, I avoid it or expect to share with riders.

[weeds]

5) I get hated just as much for having a Land Rover 4WD as for owning a bike. Well, five bikes. If I drove a Land Rover in lycra I'd probably be lynched.


:eek::eek: opps, i did this this morning.......

[barney]

so how were the bike lanes and traffic light modifications (that nearly no one takes any notice of) funded for sydney? Sydney city council probably coughed up for some of it, but I wouldn't be surprised if Clover got some government assistance.
they actually increase congestion by blocking a whole lane that could have carried a lane of cars, or provided parking for loading zones, increase waiting times at traffic lights as they cycle between 50% more signal modes.
twice I have seen road rage involving cyclists, both times, it was the cyclist dishing out the abuse (might have been the same guy both times). one was seen kicking the crap out of the rear door of a rather expensive car with the soles of his cleats. with helmet, lycra, sunnies and no form of identification, it was easy for him to ride off through a red light when surrounding motorists came to the aid of the driver. everyone should be able to be held accountable for their actions, cyclists included.

[bee utey]

:eek::eek: opps, i did this this morning.......

Well not in a LR but I had my lycra on when I raged down the freeway in the station wagon to get to today's ride start 50km east of Adelaide. A group of 15 lycra clad "road worriers" pottered off down a bunch of minor dirt roads. Courtesy waves were exchanged with several drivers of cars and 4wds who passed us, no rude words were uttered, no people or paint jobs were harmed in this exercise. After 47km of perilous co-existence we crawled into our vehicles, still lycra clad, and raged off back to town. I can't remember reporting any rego numbers to the police from our day out.:eek::p:p:p

[tomalophicon]

Yeah, I am thinking I may need wheel arch flares on my hips to keep them legal. :lol2:

:D bahahahah.

[bob10]

Changed my mind about lycra. Was driving behind very attractive female dressed in this modern marvel today. Going out to buy some for the wife. [wonder if it comes in extra large.?] Still, I found another reason to complain, she nearly caused an accident. If I had kept looking I may have had one. [ wonder what our pseudo psychologists will make of that,can't wait to see what this brings out of the woodwork :twisted::rolleyes: Bob

[blitz]

By virtu of the fact that I am a member of this forum indicates that I own a car and pay the fee's associated with it; I also love bike riding. I would happily pay a rego for my bike if it kept half wit moronic car drivers in a lane separate from me.

I nearly punched out a very good friend of mine for lining up cyclists while in his car - we are no longer friends

[bob10]

By virtu of the fact that I am a member of this forum indicates that I own a car and pay the fee's associated with it; I also love bike riding. I would happily pay a rego for my bike if it kept half wit moronic car drivers in a lane separate from me.

I nearly punched out a very good friend of mine for lining up cyclists while in his car - we are no longer friends

Don't blame you. One thing not mentioned in this discussion is this. How many children ride bikes? It's almost a rite of passage with Aussie kids. How many working parents need another bill to pay? The end result would be less of our children engaging in a healthy lifestyle.I ride a bike. I will not pay rego. I will not wear lycra :D I would join any protest against bike rego introduction, as I did the the workchoice legislation. But I will not wear lycra. sorry to the purists.Bob
Question- how many of people posting in this thread would join a protest against bike rego introduction? how many paper tigers?

[Homestar]

While I no longer ride a bike (with pedals at least) I, like most kids rode all the time when I was younger. Now, I always afford riders the courtesy I would have liked when I was riding. Yeah, there is the odd dick head, but that goes for everything, so I don't let them get to me. As for rego - no way, we should be encouraging more people onto bikes, and making it safer for them to commute on them



Question- how many of people posting in this thread would join a protest against bike rego introduction? how many paper tigers?

Probably not - I have no vested interest either way, but I don't support rego for cyclists.

Cheers - Gav

[Sparky71]

I believe cyclists should pay some form of registration, not so much for the contribution to road funding and the like , but purely for the purpose of some form of formal identification.The rego should be for the person riding the bike not the bike itself so that it could remane a very minimal cost and be used on as many different bikes as a person may own .As far as cyclists reffering to people as the haters maybe they should stop and take a look at themselves collectively . when ever you hear a cyclist mention that they have as much wrights to share the roads with motor vehicles it makes me sick. when was the last time you could drive a car legally in the dark with nothing more than puny LED torch strapped to the front of it and a flashing red light the sive of a 20cent piece that you cant see from more than about 20m, or when was the last time a car could be registered with out indicators. I drive in Brisbane city every morning in the early hours and the complete lack of respect for road rules by cyclists is disgusting, from failing to stop at red lights , going down one way roads the wrong way , changing from the road to footpaths to avoid traffic signals and changing lanes in front of vehicles with out indicating [ thats wright they dont have indicators do they] .Just maybe if these issues were addressed cyclists may have a few more supporters , and before anyone wants to say that the behaviors mentioned are in the minority I would beg to differ, these are what I see cyclists doing every morning and is what is certainly the majority seem to do which is why there are so many "HATERS". Anyway thats my 2 bobs worth look forward to the responses.

[JayBoRover]

It IS illegal to go to slow. I lost points for it during my driving test (was doing 60 in an 80 zone, didnt know it was an 80 zone) I have asked a police mate and yes it can be enforced as it can be dangerous for many reasons. But Im 100% SURE a bike rider wont get booked....but my point is one road one set of rules.
So I assume you support that the open road speed limit should be reduced to 100kph, as that's what trucks are (theoretically) restricted to? One road, one set of rules?? I don't think so. Let's not be silly ... just patient.

[bee utey]

I believe cyclists should pay some form of registration, not so much for the contribution to road funding and the like , but purely for the purpose of some form of formal identification.The rego should be for the person riding the bike not the bike itself so that it could remane a very minimal cost and be used on as many different bikes as a person may own .As far as cyclists reffering to people as the haters maybe they should stop and take a look at themselves collectively . when ever you hear a cyclist mention that they have as much wrights to share the roads with motor vehicles it makes me sick. when was the last time you could drive a car legally in the dark with nothing more than puny LED torch strapped to the front of it and a flashing red light the sive of a 20cent piece that you cant see from more than about 20m, or when was the last time a car could be registered with out indicators. I drive in Brisbane city every morning in the early hours and the complete lack of respect for road rules by cyclists is disgusting, from failing to stop at red lights , going down one way roads the wrong way , changing from the road to footpaths to avoid traffic signals and changing lanes in front of vehicles with out indicating [ thats wright they dont have indicators do they] .Just maybe if these issues were addressed cyclists may have a few more supporters , and before anyone wants to say that the behaviors mentioned are in the minority I would beg to differ, these are what I see cyclists doing every morning and is what is certainly the majority seem to do which is why there are so many "HATERS". Anyway thats my 2 bobs worth look forward to the responses.

1. There exist minimum standards for bike lights. Some people are too stupid to follow them. Some get pinched by the police.

2. There are sensible cyclists who wear hi vis gear and prefer to ride out of the traffic (where you don't see them) and there are cyclists who are all aggro and have their brains wrapped in rhino hide, just like some motorists.

3. Hand signals are legal replacements for indicators.

4. Morning commuter cyclists are a minority of all cyclists, don't tar the rest of us cyclists with the same brush. I would never commute on main roads as I don't like being shoved off the road by arrogant motorists.

5. If a regular commuter feels safe as 90% of motorists that are on the road with him are courteous and safe, then let him so long as he is not breaking the law. If he does break the law then let the police do their duty while patrolling the streets. Vote for more traffic police to reduce ALL bogan behaviour.

6. If you want to change the law to make cyclists behave, remember those laws are already in place for motorists and don't work very well. I see misbehaving motorists TEN TIMES more often than law breaking cyclists.

7. I hate arrogant people, regardless of what they do, walk, ride, drive etc.
Am I an arrogant hater too?:angel:

Now for a question (or three) for you, how would this "identification" work? A number plate worn on his bike? How big? Tattooed on his bum? On his forehead? Microchipped, like a dog? How about just carry ID like any sensible person? And, when do you register childern riding to their local park?

Cheers!:):):)

[Dave_S]

I believe cyclists should pay some form of registration, not so much for the contribution to road funding and the like , but purely for the purpose of some form of formal identification.The rego should be for the person riding the bike

Obviously you don't mean a driver's licence, as lots of kids ride. Also, it would be hard to spot from any distance. So it would need to be something worn on the person's clothing. Maybe a brightly coloured symbol of some kind. All cyclists would need an ID number. Historically this would have been tattooed, but these days I suppose we could be chipped. That way you could easily identify all cyclists, whether male or female, young or old - the whole lot would be visible to all.

You should try to sell this idea to some of our politicians. After all, there is at least one very well documented historical precedent for this sort of process.

[MR LR]

Well, all the commuting cyclists seem to wear their 'tour dé city' lycra cyclists clothing anyway, no i'm not knocking it, but a lot of these people probably participate in cycling events on the weekend, and incase noone has noticed they ALL have numbers on their shirts.

So WHY would it be unreasonable to have some sort of licencing scheme for people wanting to use their bicycles for commuting, you pass a rider knowledge test that explains to them how to use hand signals (i've never seen a cyclist indicate, personally i do it, but i'm used to driving the old cars which have no lights at all) and pull over out of courtesy. Then when a person passes this test they get a marker on thier licence (maybe class PC for 'pedal cycle'), and they get an identifying number that they can get ordered printed onto their special lycra riding suit.

That way they can be identified on CCTV if they flee the scene of something, or if they cause malicious damage.

Sure you couldn't apply it to all riders (so not leisure riders), but if the police booked people riding on main roads during busier times (the commuting cyclists) for not being licenced then they would soon pick it up. I think that is the fairest option, I don't think it needs a yearly fee just an application fee, and then its on your licence forever. Would save a lot of heartache, and probably a few lives if people were more 'aware' when riding.

Personally i don't have any beef with cyclists unless they are being ridiculous and purposely holding me up, i am saying this for everyone's benefit and that includes theirs. i don't go out of my way to ride close to them or distrub their activity i just get on with life.

I say no rego, but licencing is a must, frankly i can't believe we don't have ot, i'm pretty sure you need a permit to ride a horse on the street, so why not a bike.

Cheers
Will :)

[John W]

Holland. They have the cycle world well sorted.

More bikes than you can poke a stick at... Grandmothers, parents with two kids on special seats, students with two crates of beer, bikes that look like a flash wheelbarrow, pro riders they have it all.
There are bike lanes everywhere... except on major arterials like the A1 for example (our equivalant of the Hume Hwy or the M5) where it is illegal to cycle and I wouldn't have dared anyway... FWIW, I don't think people should be cycling on the "M" roads here. Speeds are higher, and death is a lot more likely for a cyclist involved in an accident. Add to which, there are plenty of back roads that will get you to where you are going...
On streets where there is a traffic light, there is also a traffic light for the bikes in the bike lane, this is mostly obeyed, but like anyone on the road, people will always walk / ride / drive through a red light, so what? a bike rider will generally do it a lot safer than a car because they know if they get hit, they are dead...
As for policing, Holland have a lot of police officers on bikes. If you are riding at night, without a light on the front and back, thats 50euros thanks. Quite often, they set up "traps" and ping a bucket load of cyclists at once. They then have a little stand where if you don't want to pay 50euros, you can buy a set of lights for 25euros. You also have to have a bell on your bike.
I had to do a driving test when I lived there, and bikes generally have right of way, they are more vulnerable, so you have to look out for them and you pay a lot more attention whilst driving...

It seems to me that they have grown up used to having bikes on the roads, so there is not a problem unlike here. The Dutch have it sorted, we could learn a lot from their system and their tolerance... :p

I have read a lot of posts on this forum where people whinge and whine about being charged for this and that and yet those same people seem to be all for putting a rego on bikes! oh the hypocrisy!
Bikes are here to stay, get over yourself and get used to it!


Add to this, they don't wear helmets!:eek: How do they survive?:o

This is the answer. If we were to adopt the Dutch culture where cyclists have right of way problem solved. It works really well for them. Would lead to more people on bikes, less stress for all as you know you give way rather than viewing riders as pests. I expect that over the next 20 years fuel/electricity prices will climb high enough that your first thought will be to take your bike not your car.

[bee utey]

I'd like y'all to read this thread and comment on the usefulness of registration...

I've joined the "Hit-Run" club - Adelaide Cyclists (http://www.adelaidecyclists.com/forum/topics/i-ve-joined-the-hit-run-club)

[sam_d]

I'd like y'all to read this thread and comment on the usefulness of registration...

I've joined the "Hit-Run" club - Adelaide Cyclists (http://www.adelaidecyclists.com/forum/topics/i-ve-joined-the-hit-run-club)

This too:
Who are Sydney's anti-cyclist 'TRAFFIC' twins? (http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/who-are-sydneys-anticyclist-traffic-twins-20120327-1vvb2.html)

[isuzurover]

This too:
Who are Sydney's anti-cyclist 'TRAFFIC' twins? (http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/who-are-sydneys-anticyclist-traffic-twins-20120327-1vvb2.html)

I am ashamed to be an Australian when I hear about all the incidents like these, and read the attitudes of some of the people on here...

When we lived in Germany we rode bicycles whenever we wanted to go anywhere within the town (i.e. we only used the car for long distance trips and carrying loads). We never once in 3 years experienced the kind of animosity and road rage you get in Australia.

The only one incident we had was when someone opened a car door in front of my wife (accidentally). The police were just around the corner and turned up within 60 seconds to charge the offender.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Your more then welcome to get a bike and take advantage of the free service ;)

The main prob with our country is the fact people are soo busy complaining about the minor things...
What is the saying 'if you don't like it leave'... The fact that I have considered it truly saddens me!No it's not that at all, the M7 is a privately funded and privately operated toll road. To use the facility in motorised transport you have to pay to be there, why should one section of the community be allowed to use the facility for free at the same time making it less safe for those who pay to be there.

They are perfectly able to use the dedicated car/truck free cycleway at no cost.

[Dave_S]

I am ashamed to be an Australian when I hear about all the incidents like these, and read the attitudes of some of the people on here...

When we lived in Germany we rode bicycles whenever we wanted to go anywhere within the town (i.e. we only used the car for long distance trips and carrying loads). We never once in 3 years experienced the kind of animosity and road rage you get in Australia.

The only one incident we had was when someone opened a car door in front of my wife (accidentally). The police were just around the corner and turned up within 60 seconds to charge the offender.

We spent a week in Berlin last year. Instead of a car, we hired bikes and rode everywhere. Huge numbers of people in Berlin get around on bikes and there is no animosity towards them. It's a great place but it would be a nightmare if all those people drove cars. It took us a couple of days to accept that some redneck wasn't going to hurl abuse (or something more solid) at us and really start enjoying it.

[sam_d]

...To use the facility in motorised transport you have to pay to be there, why should one section of the community be allowed to use the facility for free at the same time making it less safe for those who pay to be there. .

Yeah! Why should people who live in one suburb have to pay for their local roads to be maintained when anyone from outside of that suburb (and therefore not paying local rates and taxes that pay for the local roads to be maintained) be allowed to drive on them for free!

Why should drivers from Victoria be allowed on NSW roads? They didn't pay to use them! Nor do drivers from NT pay to be on Queensland's Roads. Etc...

[isuzurover]

Yeah! Why should people who live in one suburb have to pay for their local roads to be maintained when anyone from outside of that suburb (and therefore not paying local rates and taxes that pay for the local roads to be maintained) be allowed to drive on them for free!

Why should drivers from Victoria be allowed on NSW roads? They didn't pay to use them! Nor do drivers from NT pay to be on Queensland's Roads. Etc...

Not to mention tourists... They do not contribute to the upkeep of our road/transport system - we should ban them...

So - to keep everyone happy:

Ban interstate travel
Ban tourism
Microchip all cyclists and pedestrians.

:D

[MR LR]

I think your being a bit unrealistic there, what Diana says is that we have to pay EXTRA to use that particular road (we being the people in cars/turcks etc.), so why shouldn't a left lane lycra warrior have to pay a toll aswell????????????

Come on people your arguments are just starting to be ridiculous, like you've run out of intelligent things to say.

The cyclists use the nice smooth roads just like we do in cars, so why do they get to do it for free????

It's not right and can't be compared to normal state/council funded roads, the tourists and interstate travellers pay taxes to fund the roads in their locality and in turn we use them as they do our, that's how the world goes around.

Diana is right, they should pay on toll roads aswell.

Get some proper arguments up there please, you're acting like little kids and that is coming from a 17 year old :p

Cheers
Will :)

[isuzurover]

I think your being a bit unrealistic there, what Diana says is that we have to pay EXTRA to use that particular road (we being the people in cars/turcks etc.), so why shouldn't a left lane lycra warrior have to pay a toll aswell????????????

Come on people your arguments are just starting to be ridiculous, like you've run out of intelligent things to say.

The cyclists use the nice smooth roads just like we do in cars, so why do they get to do it for free????

It's not right and can't be compared to normal state/council funded roads, the tourists and interstate travellers pay taxes to fund the roads in their locality and in turn we use them as they do our, that's how the world goes around.

Diana is right, they should pay on toll roads aswell.

Get some proper arguments up there please, you're acting like little kids and that is coming from a 17 year old :p

Cheers
Will :)

And your arguments are the same old tired rhetoric pushed by the usual suspects.

I don't know about the road in question, but in general:

Bikes do not damage roads like cars and trucks do. A billion bikes a day could travel a section of road for 20 years and the only deterioration would be due to weather.

Bikes do not create pollution.

So - the roads need to be built anyway (unless we ban cars from cities - which would probably be a good idea), the bikes cause no damage and create no pollution...

[weeds]

Is the M7 a freeway.....how do cyclist hold you up? I would assume there would be generous amount of room on the shoulder. Up here there must be 600-1000mm of shoulder. If only they let us onto our freeways

[MR LR]

And your arguments are the same old tired rhetoric pushed by the usual suspects.

I don't know about the road in question, but in general:

Bikes do not damage roads like cars and trucks do. A billion bikes a day could travel a section of road for 2 years and the only deterioration would be due to weather.

Bikes do not create pollution.

So - the roads need to be built anyway (unless we ban cars from cities - which would probably be a good idea), the bikes cause no damage and create no pollution...
As are yours, everyone holds their own opinion.

Sure the roads are going to be built, doesn't mean everyone has to use them. You pay for the priveledge of using them, so why shouldn't everyone that uses them have to pay. I know a bike will cause literally no damage to a road, but the point still stands that if someone else has to pay to use that method of going somewhere, then why shouldn't you?

And then what about all your fancy cycle ways that cars can't use, i'm pretty sure road tax plays a part in building that infrastructure (i could be wrong, otherwise it is general tax). Doesn't cost cyclists a cent to use them, but we have to pay motor vehicle tax every year. So if we can't use their cycle ways, then howcome they can use our toll roads without paying???

Cheers
Will :)

[MR LR]

Is the M7 a freeway.....how do cyclist hold you up? I would assume there would be generous amount of room on the shoulder. Up here there must be 600-1000mm of shoulder. If only they let us onto our freeways
Honestly i don't even think they are allowed on freeways .... doesn't stop them though i see them occaisionally

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Yeah! Why should people who live in one suburb have to pay for their local roads to be maintained when anyone from outside of that suburb (and therefore not paying local rates and taxes that pay for the local roads to be maintained) be allowed to drive on them for free!

Why should drivers from Victoria be allowed on NSW roads? They didn't pay to use them! Nor do drivers from NT pay to be on Queensland's Roads. Etc...I have no issue with bikes riding anywhere on the regular suburburban roads network, just obey the law and don't make it more stressfull for me and dangerous for you when you dart in and out of traffic as you do it. Im happy to wait for bikes to turn or proceed straight ahead at intersections instead of overtaking them and turning left in front of them as many motorists do. No I don't deserve any medals its the way it should be.

In regard to private toll roads its a very different issue. You and I don't pay an additional toll to use the local roads in your suburb each time you enter. If there is a toll for entry and use, then everyone should pay it!

[101RRS]

In most states push bikes are classed as motor vehicles and have to obey the road rules. When going across a pedestrian crossing they have to dismount and walk across and are then classed as a pedestrian.

However if a car was parked off the road and was trying to enter the road over the top of a pedestrian crossing then they would have to give way to traffic on the road.

What about if we substitute the car entering over the top of the pedestrian with a push bike were the rider is still riding? Not technically a pedestrian (they are technically breaking the law) so who has right of way.

I recently had a similar incident - turning left over a pedestrian crossing - no one around and then comes up over my shoulder a push bike rider who expected to have right of way - too late for me to stop so I continued through - abuse etc etc etc - then the car behind me also nearly ran them down because they again tried to ride across the pedestrian crossing and the car driver behind me also thought they had right of way.

I believe that as they are a motor vehicle entering traffic they have to give way but who knows - any thoughts????

This is near the Aust National Uni and there are plenty of bikes around - most ride straight across pedestrian crossings and against red lights etc - thankfully most are controlled with lights that the cars obey (even if the bike riders don't) so collisions are rare.

Garry

[DiscoWeb]

My there have been some very unreasonably statements in this thread.

My comments are this (and they are Sydney specific):

1. There has been nothing but public outrage about the fact the Sydney City Council has decided to construct a number of bike specific lanes around Sydney. Yet it would appear that there is almost unanimous agreement that the best way to solve the conflict between vehicles and bikes is to provide separate facilities. More bike lane means more commuters choosing to ride to work meaning less cars or PT users. I bet you still have a slow commute because I do not think cyclists really contribute to any traffic issues.

2. The consequences for the cyclists, and I am one who commutes in Sydney traffic is so much higher than the vehicle commuter. I.E. one has a near death or worse experience and the other is a little late or put out for work or what ever other errand they are running. This generally seems to be lost or forgotten by many. I will admit there seems to a concern about the safety of cyclists from many "negative cycling" posts, but I respectfully suggest this is seen as the most plausible way of suggesting cyclist are banded from main roads or require registration?

when i commute on my bike I always chose the least trafficked route and none of the roads I ride have limits above 60 km, but that does not seem to stop some people either hurling abuse or simply trying to kill me !!!

I jump light and use what ever tactic I can to make my trips faster, but I know my route well enough to know where and when to do this. As mentioned it is usually so I can get to a section ahead of the cars/buses etc where I can safely take a lane or get to a bike path. I am sure it annoys car drivers mostly because they can not do it and very rarely are they truly worried about my saftey, otherwise they would not try and run me down ?

I personally hate cyclists who traffic split to the front of the line and then amble off at a snails pace, totally inconsiderate and frustrating. My observations is that these cyclists often appear to be more the "green leaning" cyclists who think cars should be banned completely anyway. Just my observation !!

More regulation is not the answer. More respect from both motorists and cyclists is.

The problem with regulation is where does it stop, as some mentioned surfing, rock fishing, 4wding ?

Anyway M2c worth.

George.

[sam_d]

If there is a toll for entry and use, then everyone should pay it!

In that case I'm going to write to the council and complain that children under 4 get to use my local swimming pool for free while I have to pay $6.20. It's the same principle isn't it? :)

[Davehoos]

if your talking about sydney then what can you expect--you have fools asking for more bikes to be on the road and no planning to suport what people might dotry drive a 8 ton truck or a ca- caravan in the suburbs..I had a motor bike in sydney in the 80's and pushbike before than in newcastle---the advise from me is dont.for me the danger was busses as you pace along the roads about the same average speed being constanly overtaken.

several times i asked serious questions about why cant rego to all be free-and this destroys any arguments about excluding certian classes and extreame cost to others--doing the same for all is good.

Im told by those with greater education and legal backgrounds that it would prevent due process--what you have now is three classes-the haves the have not and the too hard and no solution.

that doesnt make sence to me.

I had to dodge the cycle set in newcastle for 20yrs of peak hour.the numbers have grown an spilled on to the pacific hywayWhy do they train in peak hour traffic?

as long as they stay away from the traffic flow they dont create an issuethere isnt a problemunlike sydney its the regional roads that cant cope with bikes.
in newcastle along the road side the morons have marked the road with these coloured lanes to encourage these groups of bikes.but at best each is a few meters long and at sites that have cross/merging traffic.

I can tell you I rarely drive a truck into the city and it becomes stressfull doing this in the morning.in newcastle the roads are reasonably wide any narrow suburban roads and the mirrors get a work out.when in slow traffic the bikes come from nowhere and popup in front when you dont expect.

[manic]

I'm not a cyclist, I love to drive but I do jump on a bicycle every now and again.

Registration on cycles would be pure ridiculousness... give a slap to anyone who seriously suggests it!

People who are cycling to work are doing us all a favour.. less smog, more parking spaces, more space on the roads, less fuel demand.... so stop your petty whining and as a driver show some understanding - cyclists are having to ride on road systems built for cars, putting their bodies in harm’s way whilst trying their best to move around traffic without getting killed. If an intersection is pure death for cyclists and they switch over to the pedestrian crossing then that’s good initiative! You have to cut them some slack on the rule book until such time as a proper cycle lane is available to them.

As fuel, registration, inspection, insurance fees associated with keeping a car becomes less affordable to more and more of us, do yourself a favour and stop babbling about how they should take away the only free alternative!

Only regulation that might be worthwhile is a bicycle licence for city road cycling. Anyone can get one after passing a theory test. The licence must be carried with you whenever you cycle on city roads.

OH AND LYCRA!
Ban it, licence revoked, fined.
If your riding/training for competitive sport then fine, otherwise there is no need for it and because we all know that you are rolling yourself to work and not running in the tour de france, you only look like a right wally. If your riding casual, keep it casual - leave the yellow jersey at home!

[Davehoos]

2. DANGER (myths of more deaths cycling compared to walking or driving).
Only motorbikes are the deadly form of transport from NSW death stats. Walking, driving, cycling have almost identical death rates for time spent travelling. Federal Office of Road Safety : Fatality per million hours :
Pushbike : 0.4 Pedestrian : 0.8 Motorist 0.5

Newcastle Bike Ecology Centre (http://newcastlebikeecologycentre.blogspot.com.au/)

NSW push bike is covered by the normal car liecence and same rules like alcohol apply.
the problem is that most of the mad bike riders dont have one.

[John W]

As are yours, everyone holds their own opinion.

Sure the roads are going to be built, doesn't mean everyone has to use them. You pay for the priveledge of using them, so why shouldn't everyone that uses them have to pay. I know a bike will cause literally no damage to a road, but the point still stands that if someone else has to pay to use that method of going somewhere, then why shouldn't you?

And then what about all your fancy cycle ways that cars can't use, i'm pretty sure road tax plays a part in building that infrastructure (i could be wrong, otherwise it is general tax). Doesn't cost cyclists a cent to use them, but we have to pay motor vehicle tax every year. So if we can't use their cycle ways, then howcome they can use our toll roads without paying???

Cheers
Will :)

What on earth Will! What is all this "your and our" stuff???? If nothing else you know we ALL drive landrovers (and pay and pay). If you are disabled and unable to ride a bike I'm sorry, really sorry as it is such a privilege and joy. No motor just the simple pure pleasure of peddling along. Chill pill?

[MR LR]

What on earth Will! What is all this "your and our" stuff???? If nothing else you know we ALL drive landrovers (and pay and pay). If you are disabled and unable to ride a bike I'm sorry, really sorry as it is such a privilege and joy. No motor just the simple pure pleasure of peddling along. Chill pill?
Hehe, i was just using our (as in cars) and your (as in bikes), probably not the best wording lol, i was merely pointing out the differece between the car and bicycle commuters (oh and the first line was directed at a particular person). I ride bikes recreationally, just don't lke interacting with cars whilst on my bike, so i choose mountain biking. Goes nicely with 4wding and camping i think and i like being out in the bush with no interuptions. The fact that we are ALL Landie tragics is the one thing i think we all agree on (except those who just join to bitch about their cars), however we won't agree on everything which is what makes this an interesting place :) . Just pointing out some things and reinforcing others on the side of the fence i have chosen, so no chill pill needed here :)

Cheers
Will :D

[Lotz-A-Landies]

In that case I'm going to write to the council and complain that children under 4 get to use my local swimming pool for free while I have to pay $6.20. It's the same principle isn't it? :)I bet you its a family rate. The children only get to swim for free if accompanied by a paying adult. The same children can also ride on the M7 for free if riding in a paying automobile accompanied by an adult.

[sam_d]

The main problem with these kinds of anti-cyclist rants isn't just they they go round in circles but that the people who speak the loudest are the ones that know least about what they are talking about (it's the same when greenies start going on anti-4WD, anti-bullbar etc).

People need to educate themselves about how roads are funded, how the cost benefits of building cyclways rather than roads return more per dollar spent back into the system and just think about what it is they are really anti.

Stop just repeating what you saw on Channel 7 News or what you heard Alan Jones say and think for yourselves. It's easy and quiet enlightening! :)

[TeamFA]

Some very valid points of view, Kelvin.

I'm a motorcycle rider, and I think you'll find that if you replace "bicycle" with "motorcycle" in your arguments, motorcyclists have nearly as much right to not pay registration as bicycle riders.

So let's just change the argument to "cycles", and all fight for free rego!

Cheers!
Michael

[numpty]

The main problem with these kinds of anti-cyclist rants isn't just they they go round in circles but that the people who speak the loudest are the ones that know least about what they are talking about (it's the same when greenies start going on anti-4WD, anti-bullbar etc).
:)

This is the problem with most anti anything posts and I'd respectfully suggest that ill informed people getting on the "anti greenie" subject would be a particular case in point ;)

I ride a bicycle recreationally too and believe a lot more tolerance is needed and should be expected, by "all" road users.

No one and everyone is to blame:cool:

[MR LR]

People need to educate themselves about how roads are funded, how the cost benefits of building cyclways rather than roads return more per dollar spent back into the system and just think about what it is they are really anti.

:)

Please enlighten me on how a cycle way will return money to the system?

The things i like about commuting cyclists is it gets cars off the road, thus using less fuel and creating less emissions as well as freeing up traffic. Personally i only ever ride recreationally but thats just me.

Cheers
Will :cool:

[sam_d]

Please enlighten me on how a cycle way will return money to the system?


Plenty to read here....

Cost Benefit Analysis of Cycling Infrastructure (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=cost+benefit+analysis+cycling+infrastructure) :)

The heart of the matter is the most haters think that cyclists are getting stuff they don't deserve for free when in fact, cyclists save the governments and tax payers more (through reduced healthcare costs, reduced environmental damage, easing congestion on the roads and transport, taking fewer sick days at work, improved mental health and well being) than is returned to them. But hey, why let facts get in the way...

[isuzurover]

Plenty to read here....

Cost Benefit Analysis of Cycling Infrastructure (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=cost+benefit+analysis+cycling+infrastructure) :)

The heart of the matter is the most haters think that cyclists are getting stuff they don't deserve for free when in fact, cyclists save the governments and tax payers more (through reduced healthcare costs, reduced environmental damage, easing congestion on the roads and transport, taking fewer sick days at work, improved mental health and well being) than is returned to them. But hey, why let facts get in the way...

Funny thing is - for any other health/medical issue a certain healthcare professional on here is usually the one telling us this stuff...

[DiscoWeb]

Please enlighten me on how a cycle way will return money to the system?


Cheers
Will :cool:

Will,

Less cars mean less wear and tear on the system, less congenstion means less lost time sitting in traffic.

You may be unaware but there is an obesity problem in Australia and most developed countries, encouraging cycling, making it a safe alternative method of transport must be a huge benefit.

I am now a early 40 yr old, I played rugby in the front row when I was younger so am not blessed with one of those "lithe" body shapes. I find cycling the 20 km each way to and from work 2 - 3 days a week a great way to stay in shape. I am sure it has and will save me and the broader community lots of money in the long run as I will be healthier and more productive for longer by maintaining a reasonable level of fitness.

Heath care is oe of "our" biggest costs and with an aging and longer living population will continue to grow as a burden on everyone. Getting people out of a car and onto a bike has to be a sensible and cost effective way of dealing with a number of our bigger issues.

That is how cycle ways returns money to the system.

Anything that impedes that, including regulation and registration is a negative in my opinion.

George

p.s Looks like sam_d beat em to the punch.