'sigh' underwhelmed by MY12 TDV8

[blazing928]

So,we had a drive in a MY12 TDV8 Lux today, we've been looking for some time, but don't want black or white exteriors! Why are they all the same??? Boring!
Sadly, we were [wife & I] most unimpressed by the ride and road noise. I really had hoped for better.
We have an old X5 that i dislike a lot for its road noise and appalling low speed ride, but after going back to it , maybe I have been too harsh and I really want to hate it!
I seem to remember the D4 had a better ride, but its been some time between rides. Where to now? Really had high expectations, it certainly is no S class alternative.
I've had a couple of RR before, there was a greater sense of 'special' in my old LSE! Or maybe the glasses are very rose tinted!!
I don't think even the offers of big discounts is going to help make a choice.

The salesman was the usual dud. Nice guy but unsure of some most basic functions. LR doesn't have that many models that they shouldn't know everything & its not like its a new model. Quite off putting. eg does it have 'global closing' of the windows as per stated in the manual? Where was the digital TV? - he shrugged!
One time at another dealer the sales girl tried to tell me 'Dual view' was able to be retro fitted. Can the car be set to drop to access height every time you turn it off? My wife is short and that would be most useful.

I guess we will have another drive and see if we just had a bad car day.

The TDV8 4.4 motor is pretty good, a bit vocal, I forgot to see how loud it was with the window open. It certainly had some grunt, from 60-80 was in a blink and effortless. It was interesting to watch instant fuel at 60kmh and see under 4lt/100. The average was 13.5lt/100. Not great, but I figure as a demo it gets thrashed a lot.

We may end up waiting for the L405 to come along.....

Nigel

[harlie]

Have to agree with a few points; the colour offered today by most manufacturers is sad.

I’ve driven many 02-05, a few 06-08 and a demo12. IMO the best ride is the pre 06, before they changed the front geometry, tho they do have significantly more body roll.

Friends have a 2007 3.6 TDV8 (reflashed to 820nm), it handles/corners much better than my 04 and with 820nm from 1800 it pulls like a train, it actually goes as well as the (standard) V10TDi Toureg . However for long distance cruising on our poor highways once you get away from the major cities it is boarding on annoyingly firm. This is where you notice a huge difference between the 04 and 07. He has 20 inch wheels and road noise is far higher than my 18s.

Unfortunately I’ve only driven the MY12 around town for 30mins or so, and it was very new with very new tyres (combined with good city streets) so at the time I was actually impressed with road noise. Cracker engine but pound for pound compared to the 3.6 IMO it’s not as good – it has more down low but given the size difference I expected better – it’s no where near as good as the 5.0V10 VW engine which is now quite old (actually discontinued) or the 4.2V8 found in the Q7. The 8 speeder is where it shines, the extra ratios enable TC and clutch tightening which should give significantly better fuel consumption than the 3.6 & 6 speed.

I would agree with the ride assessment. The newer cars are definitely targeted to compete with Q7, ML ect and they have firmed them up to get more of a car handling feel to them. Where as your old LSE was more like a luxury yacht.

As for the dealers, I don’t know how they are selling anything. LRA have retracted the network, many parts of the country that had dealers now don’t, while the likes of VW are expanding, which means you can get parts & servicing for your VW, Audi, Skoda even Bentley virtually anywhere. And the attitude is mind blowing (at least here in BNE). Unless you arrive in something EU and are wearing something EU, there’s a chance you won’t even get served. I personally know two Blokes that went into LR to be told they “can’t afford a Disco” – true! These were both cash buyers that travelled to BNE from the country for the sole purpose of buying a D4, and went home with a Pajero Exceed (which he hates) and the other a 200 series.

The 405, with 420-450Kg cut, it will be interesting to see how it behaves, weight distribution will be vastly different.



Personally I’m happy with my reflashed TD6, given the usage it sees I’ll have it for quite a while. If I used it for daily driver in the city I would want the 07, but we have another weapon for that purpose.

[incisor]

As for the dealers, I don’t know how they are selling anything. LRA have retracted the network, many parts of the country that had dealers now don’t, while the likes of VW are expanding, which means you can get parts & servicing for your VW, Audi, Skoda even Bentley virtually anywhere. And the attitude is mind blowing (at least here in BNE). Unless you arrive in something EU and are wearing something EU, there’s a chance you won’t even get served. I personally know two Blokes that went into LR to be told they “can’t afford a Disco” – true!

VW service isnt all it should be by any means but at least they try and sell you a vehicle ;)

as for the bne dealers, i have heard so many stories like the above it leaves me astounded. they obviously have a plan but the logic behind that sort of behavior escapes me....

[away]

and went home with a Pajero Exceed (which he hates)

Fair dinkum! If he came with the intention of buying a Disco and ended up with a Pajero, then I'd suggest that the LR salesman was probably right. In a former life, when I needed a work hack that I wouldn't care too much about if I destroyed it, I purchased an NP Pajero and regretted it almost immediately. My next car was a Disco and I've never looked back.

Having said that, I went to the Perth caravan and camping show when I was looking for the vehicle to replace the Pajero and the staff manning the Land Rover stand were appalling. I wasn't dressed to the nines I suppose. They were very lucky that I was so interested in the Disco that I went to see them at the dealership the next day. I wasn't going to but SWMBO talked me into it.

Cheers

Russ

[harlie]

Fair dinkum! If he came with the intention of buying a Disco and ended up with a Pajero, then I'd suggest that the LR salesman was probably right. ......
Oh-my how forum opinions are experts - yeah thats it, he didn't get one so he can't affort it. He IS a very wealthy guy, the Pajero has since gone, replaced with a $140k Toureg V10Tdi. He definitely CAN afford a Disco and CAN afford to bash it about, I sail with him regularly on his mil$+ 48' catamaran, sit on the deck of his multi mil$ home looking out over the ocean, I can only aspire to be that comfortable in retirement - he isn’t short of coin, he is short of patience.

The Paj was bought because he came down by plane with the purpose of buying a car – his early L322 was already sold. After the LR salesman didn't even let him in the door, he walked down the road and the Mitsubishi Dealer at Newstead actually talked to him, his wife liked it, he signed. They stayed with us for two nights while the dealer did what they do and then drove it home. Within 4 months, His local VW dealer bent over backwards to get him a Treg, and needless to say, that after a history of LR/RR ownership he will never be back.


VW service isnt all it should be by any means but at least they try and sell you a vehicle ;)


Totally agree, our runaround car is VW, service is actually the same as LR, it's the same people rotating through the reception centres because it’s the same company that has the dealers in BNE. However – with VW we have a choice, there is more than one dealer for all of BNE and there are dealers spread throughout regional areas, not happy with one go to another, I can get parts easily in regional areas. With LR you can’t, the next dealer is a very long way away (that’s why the person mentioned above had to fly to BNE to buy a LR). And if you do a lot of DIY, there are parts available from these dealers.

[neil 90]

I went into the dealer in bne to see if they had any L322 trade ins in the pipe line to save me going to sydney, when he realised i wasnt buying a new one you could see him switch off. couldnt get me out the door fast enough..tosser

neil

[blazing928]

interesting replies, seems LR have a job to do in regards to sales service.
We drove a MY12 diesel Cayenne on Thursday, very impressed. On steel springs & 21" alloys it rides better, goes faster!. Very different but I could live with it.
Also being able to use 18" opens up a lot of options for snow tyres and dirt driving [we are not serious off roaders.]
Just a bit smaller, so we have to decide if thats going to be OK, but coming from the MY03 X5 it's pretty close.
So, waiting to see the Grey/sand RR TDV8 to see if the nicer interior can sway us back.
Off to drive a Cayenne S with air suspension........

[RR P38]

Its amazing that a salesman of a prestige mark can "talk" a customer out of a purchase.
Passion is what is missing with many sales people when it comes to cars.
Its just a job, be it a lucrative one for some with out much effort so it seems.
LR does it`s self a disservice by not standing by good used vehicles as Toyota do. Sending good RR or LR`s to the auction undermines resale values.

[d3syd]

I'm sure the L405 will be improved in all measurable ways. The L322 is rather long in the tooth now and NVH levels have moved on.

I have a 25 year old W126 420SEL Merc with just 75,000 km on the clock and it amazes me how agricultural it feels today for a car that was considered at the time the best sedan in the world.

I like to look of the new L405, but I think the interior is not special enough. Sort of like a derivative of an Evoque's.

[Homestar]

LR Dealer service is crap - I was made to feel very small when visiting there recently to ask about a new key for my 2003 model - even though one of my best friends goes there regularly with his 08 Sport, and has bought 4 Rangies off them over the years recommended I speak to a certain person, I was basically flipped off by the people I spoke to. I was given a price for the key, and they turned away to do something else - I would ge fired if I treated ANY customer - big or small like that. If I had the money to buy a new vehicle, I sure wouldn't be going there to spend my money... They have a LOT to learn about customer service...

[MR LR]

I think everyone generalises Land Rover dealer service too much, they aren't all bad. The smaller dealers are more focused on the customers than the large chains. The dealers that are Land Rover enthusiast enjoy a good reputation though, it's the ones that do it for the money that you have trouble with. Ask me how i know...

Oh and i've got some inside links at Porsche, new diesel in the pipeline, that's all i can say.

Cheers
Will

[TimOz]

+1 on dealer service.

Justa relevant anecdote. I had a Defender TD5 a few years ago and currently have a 94 Classic Rangey. I am cogitating a newer vehicle and considering either a new defender or a diesel 95 Rangey (budget issues). I can go for the simplicity of the defender or the comfort and complexity of the Rangey.

I popped into a dealer in a major Victorian city and the conversation went like this:
Me " I am looking at a Defender. I had a TD5 but my wife hated it due to the cabin noise, I want to see if the Puma is quiter and how the drivers seating compares".
Salesperson "I am not surprised. Your wife is right, they are all horrible. The new one is no different".
Me "really? The LR marketing and the general consensus seems to be that they are significantly quieter. In your experience is the current Puma quieter?"
Salesperson "No. They are the same and the drivers position is more cramped due to window motors."

WHAT!!!
They had only one Defender 110 in stock and it was parked in by wall to wall Evoques. I persisted and had them start the motor but no test drive was offered and the vibe was quite unfriendly. They appeared to have no second hand vehicles at all. Maybe he was trying to sell me an Evoque? Upsize a defender?

I worked in sales for many years and this experience was pretty strange. I can only think the whole dealer network is demotivated. Poor management? Freaked out by Tata?

Makes me want to consider other brands.

[d3syd]

My dealer in Launceston must be a bit of an exception. I always get great service there and a free loan car (which is always is someting new like a FL2, D4, Benz C Class or Suby Liberty). Bought my last 2 Discos from them and the sales department is equally good.

I don't know about anyone else, but I received a survey conducted by AC Neisen on behalf of LR Australia about dealer service a couple of days ago. So that would be a chance for you guys to voice your low opinion of the dealer network to head office :)

[blazing928]

ULR , Damon, has been pretty good, but other experiences there are less positive.....to say the least.

Both Porsche dealers in Melb have been a revelation in sales. They both knew their product backwards/forwards/sideways. The V8 S, we drove, is Ok, but I reckon the diesel is quieter and feels just as quick, more relaxing maybe. On 19" rims the various sport/comfort settings made very little difference. Porsche says only worth it if you run 21" rims. Porsche options are stupidly priced [compare same to VW!] & everthing is an option.

The Toe-rag MY12.5 is a bargain, but not as nice inside or out IMHO.
Certainly no RR.

Lots of traffic in LR dealers, all about the Evoque, they must be dying for the L405's details to be released.
When I said a price on a L322 had better be good or I will come back in 6 months and really go for the crunch, he wasn't laughing. LR will struggle to shift L322s now.

[Bigbjorn]

[QUOTE=harlie;1705448] .

As for the dealers, I don’t know how they are selling anything. LRA have retracted the network, many parts of the country that had dealers now don’t, while the likes of VW are expanding, which means you can get parts & servicing for your VW, Audi, Skoda even Bentley virtually anywhere. And the attitude is mind blowing (at least here in BNE).
QUOTE]

A friend (still) has a top line VW sedan turbo diesel. Lots of dollars for not much car in my opinion. It died electronically near Boulia whilst under warranty. He lives on the Sunshine Coast and it is his business vehicle. Up until then he thought the sun shone out of it. Got towed into the dealer in Mt. Isa who did their best to help but really had no idea. The dealer staff cheerfully admitted they had never sold or even seen one before, and had no parts whatsoever. One guy even said no-one out there would ever buy anything like this. The dealers people, the local auto electronic gurus all tried and failed. VW had it trucked to Brisbane where it took several weeks for the locals and visiting VW technicians to resolve. Engine assembly was in and out like a honeymoon doodle according to the now completely offside owner who is awaiting the end of the lease period to lease another make.

Unless they have appointed one lately, Land Rover do not have a dealer in Queensland west of Toowoomba. Next dealer is in Darwin if there is still one there.

[101RRS]

Well the Canberra Landrover Dealer is also the VW dealer. The VW sales side (different to Landrover) didn't even know the difference between a Tiguan and a Tourag when I was thinking about getting a Tourag - that experience confirmed my RRS was a good idea.

I don't believe there is a Landrover inspired systemic lack of service at Landrover - in my experience the same applies anywhere - more the people not the system.

Garry

[blazing928]

Well we went for a long drive in the TDV8 LUX today. Better drive than last car, seemed more effortless, the roads were rougher and it handled them very well. Still annoys with the small bump shudder and noise. The rolly polly and slow steering are its nature. Lovelly at 80kmh, quiet and smoother, but not a corner lover.
Its not telepathic around corners like the Cayenne was. I could not get to terms with the steering. Its a bit slow, so you over turn too much, then have to unwind a bit of lock.
I am sure that with time it would be Ok, like the old days,pre load up the classic and then you could drive it around the corner!

Also my wife is a bit on the short size and found the seats squab was hard against the back of her knees. Neither of us found the seats that soft & comfy, again the Cayenne was better. Porsche do good seats.
The rear space was great, the rear A/C very good, 19 speaker sound was quite impressive as well.....but.... not for us.

Sad day as I am a RR lover from way back, maybe the L405 will have better driving dynamics, in fact it better have them!

Like most RR owners we don't need brilliant good off road dynamics. Its snow and general dirt for us, and the Cayenne is pretty good off road. I can also have 21" blings around town and 18" rims for winter tyres or dirt trips. It has locking center and rear diffs.

If we had three kids rather than two it would win for the extra space.

So hiho hiho its off to Cayenne Diesel we go. Now to find a well specd diesel or the order path. If you get the chance, go drive a Cayenne diesel on a twisty road, pretty amazing!

Thanks for your comments, could easily be back in a few years for change over to a L405.

[ariddell]

Interesting, we considered and drove the Cayenne Turbo when replacing our last L322.

I really didn't like the Cayenne at all, the interior felt like sitting in a chintzy bar in a Vegas hotel lobby. It wasn't as bad as the Merc ML63 admittedly which felt very cheap inside with the materials used, but still nowhere near the tasteful quality feel of the Vogue. That may have been down to the lurid black/red colour choice of the Cayenne we drove but it did not sell me at all.

The engine sounded lovely, proper spitfire roar when planted and the handling was very car like, but I still just couldn't get past the vulgarity of it - any time I caught sight of the reflection of it I just groaned at myself.

Ended up unsurprisingly going for the Supercharged Vogue and definitely not regretting it, will most likely be considering an L405 at some stage in the future.

[Hoges]

My dealer in Launceston must be a bit of an exception. I always get great service there and a free loan car (which is always is someting new like a FL2, D4, Benz C Class or Suby Liberty). Bought my last 2 Discos from them and the sales department is equally good.

I don't know about anyone else, but I received a survey conducted by AC Neisen on behalf of LR Australia about dealer service a couple of days ago. So that would be a chance for you guys to voice your low opinion of the dealer network to head office :)

Just wondering if anyone from LRA reads this forum...

it's interesting to see the difference with the "Toyota" system and how the Toyota company ploughs $$$ into dealership training. I did some management consulting for a small but very effective dealer group in Toyota land and got some visibility to the comprehensiveness of Toyota's reach throughout their downstream supply chain and dealer management...it's most impressive. So off my own bat I wandered the showroom floors of several LR dealership here in Qld and NSW and asked a few questions ... something is very broken... It appears to be the case that LRA has no interest in expanding the business beyond the high-end boutique show it has evolved into today. It's a lazy business model and the legacy is evident in the majority of unsatisfactory experiences related previously here and in posts relating to other LR models .

[VladTepes]

blazing...

I did have an LSE once upon a time and I;ve also driven a number of more recent cars of all persuasions and I still havent driven a more comfortble car than that LSE.
So no I don;t think it's rose coloured glasses at all, but a reality.

I'm not fortunate enough to be in a position to buy either, nor have I driven teh RR you are speaking of, but I have driven a D4 and in my opinion the very high equipment level, trimmings, good performance, excellent off road ability and practical use of space in a D4 HSE would make it impossible to justify the ridiculous premium being asked for a RR.

Well, that's what i reckon.
Flick me $100K and I'll do a LONG term D4 test for you.....

[Daniel]

So,we had a drive in a MY12 TDV8 Lux ...
The salesman was the usual dud. Nice guy but unsure of some most basic functions. LR doesn't have that many models that they shouldn't know everything & its not like its a new model. Quite off putting. eg does it have 'global closing' of the windows as per stated in the manual? Where was the digital TV? - he shrugged!...

We may end up waiting for the L405 to come along.....

Nigel


The global window close is a programmable feature on any L322 RR.
I think that you'll find that it is prohibited by ADR and that is why we never see it in Aus. if you get you own diagnostic gear then you can enable it off course.

[Daniel]

Just wondering if anyone from LRA reads this forum...

it's interesting to see the difference with the "Toyota" system and how the Toyota company ploughs $$$ into dealership training. I did some management consulting for a small but very effective dealer group in Toyota land and got some visibility to the comprehensiveness of Toyota's reach throughout their downstream supply chain and dealer management...it's most impressive. So off my own bat I wandered the showroom floors of several LR dealership here in Qld and NSW and asked a few questions ... something is very broken... It appears to be the case that LRA has no interest in expanding the business beyond the high-end boutique show it has evolved into today. It's a lazy business model and the legacy is evident in the majority of unsatisfactory experiences related previously here and in posts relating to other LR models .

Dealers are dealers and that's all there is to it.

I still remember when I was looking to buy our 80s Toyota $58k in 1993 - walked into our town's Toyota showroom in shorts & thongs - got ignored went to the adjacent town and bought one.

Toyota - LandRover - whatever just ignore the dealer and do your own research and above all ignore what a salesman tells you - most of the time they know very little other than what their sales bonus/commission is.

[d3syd]

Dealers are dealers and that's all there is to it.

I still remember when I was looking to buy our 80s Toyota $58k in 1993 - walked into our town's Toyota showroom in shorts & thongs - got ignored went to the adjacent town and bought one.

Toyota - LandRover - whatever just ignore the dealer and do your own research and above all ignore what a salesman tells you - most of the time they know very little other than what their sales bonus/commission is.

I agree. I never rely on salesperson selling the car. I always do my research first, decide on what car and options I want, then visit a few dealers and get the best price. I rarely find the need to do a test drive and I invariably know more about the car than any salesperson.

As for the Cayenne, personally I think it looks terrible (looks a lot like a Hyundai Santa Fe or something Korean - particularly in the back end). I'm sure being a Porsche, it is a brilliant car though. I would be waiting for the L405 RRV as it is due to be launched in September at the Paris Auto show.

[Dougal]

Unfortunately I’ve only driven the MY12 around town for 30mins or so, and it was very new with very new tyres (combined with good city streets) so at the time I was actually impressed with road noise. Cracker engine but pound for pound compared to the 3.6 IMO it’s not as good – it has more down low but given the size difference I expected better – it’s no where near as good as the 5.0V10 VW engine which is now quite old (actually discontinued) or the 4.2V8 found in the Q7.

It appears the 6 speed auto 4.2tdi in a Q7 can't get below 12 litres/100km. Ever.:(
Doesn't the 4.4 tdv8 halve that on an open road cruise?

[Daniel]

....
I would be waiting for the L405 RRV as it is due to be launched in September at the Paris Auto show.

The inside info on the L405 is that it will be all aluminium monocoque weighing about 0.5 tonne less than the L322 despite being larger.

The suspension is said to comprise a mix of EAS combined with Adaptive Dynamics as fitted to the Evoque which is absolutely brilliant (electromagnetic shock control). It's just what the RR has needed since the Germans stuffed up RR suspension in the BMW days with the 2002 L322 launch. Hopefully the German seat designs will also be upgraded as well - the L322 seats are terrible.

The L405 appearance is apparently nothing like what the so called "spy shots" are showing it to be and just as well as the "spy shots" make it look terrible.

[bluegreygreen Rangie]

The inside info on the L405 is that it will be all aluminium monocoque weighing about 0.5 tonne less than the L322 despite being larger.

The suspension is said to comprise a mix of EAS combined with Adaptive Dynamics as fitted to the Evoque which is absolutely brilliant (electromagnetic shock control). It's just what the RR has needed since the Germans stuffed up RR suspension in the BMW days with the 2002 L322 launch. Hopefully the German seat designs will also be upgraded as well - the L322 seats are terrible.

The L405 appearance is apparently nothing like what the so called "spy shots" are showing it to be and just as well as the "spy shots" make it look terrible.


I dont know what seats you have in your L322 but mine are fantastic.. the best ive ever owned and ive had a few cars, and hey they are 305thousand ks old ;)

Maybe they fitted yours with hilux seats?



Dave

[Daniel]

I dont know what seats you have in your L322 but mine are fantastic.. the best ive ever owned and ive had a few cars, and hey they are 305thousand ks old ;)

Maybe they fitted yours with hilux seats?

Dave


Yes I have driven some jap crap over the years and they are not even in the same league although I must say my 1984 NA Pajero with the suspension seat was a quite good setup despite the usual jap crap seat.

I currently have a 2005 L322 HSE td6 and the seats (by comparison with other RRs) are ordinary to say the last - even the armrests are far worse than the older RRs.

My 1989 RR Vogue seats are far better and the1996 P38 were a little better but worse than the 1989.

I test drove some Evoques last week and they are once again up to the usual British standards. The Germans never quite got the early L322 seats right.

Anyway the L322 is now retired to be my daily run around work truck and is being replaced with a 2008 L322 tdV8 Vogue so we'll see if the BMW influence wore off for that model.

[Graeme]

The suspension is said to comprise a mix of EAS combined with Adaptive Dynamics as fitted to the Evoque
Adaptive Dynamics has been an option on RRs in some markets at least since 2009.

[Camo]

Yes I have driven some jap crap over the years and they are not even in the same league although I must say my 1984 NA Pajero with the suspension seat was a quite good setup despite the usual jap crap seat.

I currently have a 2005 L322 HSE td6 and the seats (by comparison with other RRs) are ordinary to say the last - even the armrests are far worse than the older RRs.

My 1989 RR Vogue seats are far better and the1996 P38 were a little better but worse than the 1989.

I test drove some Evoques last week and they are once again up to the usual British standards. The Germans never quite got the early L322 seats right.

Anyway the L322 is now retired to be my daily run around work truck and is being replaced with a 2008 L322 tdV8 Vogue so we'll see if the BMW influence wore off for that model.

You got me beat.. Seats in my L322 are waaay more comfy than the 94' Soft Dash. Suppose everyone is different.

Camo

[Daniel]

You got me beat.. Seats in my L322 are waaay more comfy than the 94' Soft Dash. Suppose everyone is different.

Camo

Yeah, I still have a '94 RR (soft dash) as well as my '89 RR - the '94 are leather and not as well contoured as the '89 - more like the '96 P38 I used to have.
However the '94 RR armrests are better than the L322 armrests.
I guess the Germans designed the L322 seat armrest for a use other than resting one's left arm on it!

[Homestar]

However the '94 RR armrests are better than the L322 armrests.
I guess the Germans designed the L322 seat armrest for a use other than resting one's left arm on it!

Not sure what your left arm looks like, but mine rest on the arm rest very nicely - every bit as good as my early Rangie - they both seem to be in about the same position.

[101RRS]

I guess the Germans designed the L322 seat armrest for a use other than resting one's left arm on it!

You keep on saying the Germans did this and did that but other that providing capital and high level direction (such as use BMW engines etc) the detail of the design of the RR and other Landrover products was done by the same people who have been doing it for years - mainly Brits in the UK.

I very much doubt that the "germans" had much to do with the design of the seats but senior managers - whether they be Brit or whatever would have signed off on the design after development.

Garry

[Daniel]

You keep on saying the Germans did this and did that but other that providing capital and high level direction (such as use BMW engines etc) the detail of the design of the RR and other Landrover products was done by the same people who have been doing it for years - mainly Brits in the UK.

I very much doubt that the "germans" had much to do with the design of the seats but senior managers - whether they be Brit or whatever would have signed off on the design after development.

Garry

Ok Garry - I see what you are getting at and that you have little faith in the actual facts. When I pulled my seats out of my '89 RR I can clearly read who built the seat and likewise for my '96 P38 and likewise for my '05 L322. I can tell you that for the L322 it was not a British company!!!! Your doubt appears to stand in the way of the facts!

Just have a look at an L322 like my '05 model and see what is British and what is German - it is far more than just "engines" - a large swag of the truck is German from the ignition key to suspension components to mufflers to ECUs and the list just goes on and on and on.

Your L320 is probably different so don't let that cloud your judgement.

I have my '89 RR Classic Vogue, my '94 LSE Vogue and my '05 L322 HSE all sitting side by side in my shed. The differences are plain to see and I have not had anyone who has compared them state anything but the obvious - each newer model is less comfortable than the previous as regards seats/armrests.

I just hope that the '08 tdV8 L322 Vouge I'm picking up next week has been upgraded by the Brits to the usual RR standard of former years.

[bluegreygreen Rangie]

Ok Garry - I see what you are getting at and that you have little faith in the actual facts. When I pulled my seats out of my '89 RR I can clearly read who built the seat and likewise for my '96 P38 and likewise for my '05 L322. I can tell you that for the L322 it was not a British company!!!! Your doubt appears to stand in the way of the facts!

Just have a look at an L322 like my '05 model and see what is British and what is German - it is far more than just "engines" - a large swag of the truck is German from the ignition key to suspension components to mufflers to ECUs and the list just goes on and on and on.

Your L320 is probably different so don't let that cloud your judgement.

I have my '89 RR Classic Vogue, my '94 LSE Vogue and my '05 L322 HSE all sitting side by side in my shed. The differences are plain to see and I have not had anyone who has compared them state anything but the obvious - each newer model is less comfortable than the previous as regards seats/armrests.

I just hope that the '08 tdV8 L322 Vouge I'm picking up next week has been upgraded by the Brits to the usual RR standard of former years.



From what I read most people seem to think the later model L322 seats are worse and are narrower or something?

Your right the old seats were good but for mine the L322 (03) I have has to be the most comfy thing I have ever driven seat wise.... I’m simply in my lounge room, actually no my lounge aint that good

Guess we all have different opinions on seats etc


Dave

[Camo]

From what I read most people seem to think the later model L322 seats are worse and are narrower or something?

Your right the old seats were good but for mine the L322 (03) I have has to be the most comfy thing I have ever driven seat wise.... I’m simply in my lounge room, actually no my lounge aint that good

Guess we all have different opinions on seats etc


Dave
So true.. I have no idea why people reckon the classic seats are better than the L322..theres no way. Seats in my L322 are way comfy compared to any range rover ive been in. Lets just say they are different;)

Camo

[101RRS]

Daniel,

Well following your logic it will be Ford's fault if the seats in the 08 RR are not to your liking and if you were buying a later model it is Tata's fault.

Oh the parts in my car that I have had a detailed look at on my car seem to come from all over the world based on their markings and I assume the RR version is the same.

Gary

[33chinacars]

The seats in my MY05 TD6 are fantastic. Better than the seats in my older P38. IMO

Gary

[jsp]

hmm I think my P38 seat is more comfy, my now gone 88 classic had the best arm rests, but thats my view and my P38 might feel more comfy as its conformed to my backside over 11 years.

My wife says the L322 is far better than the P38 for seat comfort, and compares the 94 classic to a 60's bedford truck.

I do kinda of miss the velour of my 88 classic, never stung the back of your legs when getting into the car after its been in the sun on a hot day.

[ariddell]

I preferred the seats in our previous 03 L322 to our current 08.

The two piece adjustable backrest of the early L322 Vogue spec seats were fantastic and I preferred the previous style headrests.

The 07+ cars lost the multi way backrest adjustment when they moved the side airbags out of the doors and into the seats and the headrests of the new style seats are a bit flat for my liking but they are still very comfortable.

[ariddell]

I preferred the seats in our previous 03 L322 to our current 08.

The two piece adjustable backrest of the early L322 Vogue spec seats were fantastic and I preferred the previous style headrests.

The 07+ cars lost the multi way backrest adjustment when they moved the side airbags out of the doors and into the seats and the headrests of the new style seats are a bit flat for my liking.

[Daniel]

I preferred the seats in our previous 03 L322 to our current 08.

The two piece adjustable backrest of the early L322 Vogue spec seats were fantastic and I preferred the previous style headrests.

The 07+ cars lost the multi way backrest adjustment when they moved the side airbags out of the doors and into the seats and the headrests of the new style seats are a bit flat for my liking but they are still very comfortable.

Good point - when we ordered our 05 L322 HSE the store GM took us for a drive in his Vogue and said the HSE seats were identical other than the passenger's not having full electric adjustment. As usual one can't believe anything someone tells you as the HSE seats were inferior to those fitted to the Vogue. The moral is to always inspect the identical model to the one you are buying and do not sign anything until you do.

[Daniel]

I preferred the seats in our previous 03 L322 to our current 08.

Is your '08 L322 petrol or diesel?
Vogue or Vogue SE?

Any service (mechanical) or other issues to look out for?

[ariddell]

Is your '08 L322 petrol or diesel?
Vogue or Vogue SE?

Any service (mechanical) or other issues to look out for?

Supercharged petrol, think the SE spec was UK only, here from 07 on there was just the Supercharged, TDV8 and TDV8 Lux. The Lux and S/C have different seats than the base TDV8 I think.

No issues with it so far, although we had a gearbox fluid flush done after we bought it just in case.

[Daniel]

Supercharged petrol, think the SE spec was UK only, here from 07 on there was just the Supercharged, TDV8 and TDV8 Lux. The Lux and S/C have different seats than the base TDV8 I think.


The L322 I'm looking at buying on Friday is a tdV8 Vogue SE purchased new from Trivetts Sydney in March 2008. It is clearly badged as Vogue SE on the tailgate and is being advertised as a "tdV8 Vogue Luxury".

I have all the Australian LandRover distributor fancy black advertising booklets on the L322 RRs from 2005-2011 except for the 2007/2008 model.

Maybe someone has one of these and can supply a copy/scan to me?

[ariddell]

I've got the 07MY brochure, no mention of an SE in it but then that's not to say it couldn't have been some sort of special order.

[Daniel]

I've got the 07MY brochure, no mention of an SE in it but then that's not to say it couldn't have been some sort of special order.


I'm advised that it was a Trivetts showroom model - the top of the line most expensive L322 RR in 2007.
see attached pic that shows the "vogue SE" badge.
Any chance to get a colour scanned copy of your brochure?

49354

[Laurie]

Love the colour Daniel ! Certainly looks the goods.

Laurie

[Dorko]

Interesting discussion.

I have recently bought a 2012 Vogue Luxury two months ago after trading the D4. I was looking at both the Porsche vs RR and hands down for finish and layout the RR was the winner for me. The Porsche layout was **** and not practical at all; way too much going on. The drive was second to none, but on par with the RR.

Lets be real, if you want a soccer mum car the porsche is for you. Want a man's car go with the RR.

For external sounds, this is by far superior to any car I have every driven. Its complete silence and I have roof racks! No ideas what the issue is with seats, its beautiful, warm/cool and has 16 settings for the seat. For those finding it uncomfortable are living in a different world. Any softer you will fall asleep!

Dorko

[Camo]

Nice work Dorko! I bet she drives nice. Petrol or the 4.4 diesel?

[Daniel]

Nice one Dorko!

There is no way I'd even look at a Porsche compared to a RR.

I visited Newcastle yesterday to get the GG AT2 tyres put on my 2005MY td6 L322.
It was definitely a tdv8 day as we crossed paths with two 2012MY tdV8's on the way. I guess with the discounts being offered they are an even more attractive truck!

And yes, the seat heating-cooling on in our 2007MY tdv8 L322 is simply magic as well. Just waiting for a massage function (as offered in certain MB models).

[Camo]

Can't wait to have a drive of the 4.4. Drove the 3.6 and thought it was ok.
The 4.4 must really fly! specially with the 8 speed gearbox. Think I might hold on to the old TD6 till the 4.4 comes down in price.

What did you get your 3.6 for Daniel? Ive seen them for less than 80k:eek: Crazy how cheap they get.. I'm not complaining though:D

Camo

[Daniel]

Hi Camo

I haven't driven a 4.4 tdv8 but have heard that they are no much diff in
performance than the 3.6.

The tdv8 is spectacularly better than the td6 and the 6 speed ZF likewise makes the 5 speed GM transmission seem prehistoric - it holds down hills just like a manual all by itself etc etc. I drive the td6 one day and the tdv8 the next over the roads we travel from home to appointments so have a real good feel for each truck's characteristics. The drive involves mountain tracks in low range through to rural roads at very high speeds through to motorways.

I won't nominate the higher speeds we do as the 'do-gooders' can't seem to help themselves and go on with their rants about responsibility etc etc.

The suspension and handling is markedly improved from the td6 to the tdv8 as well. Also NVH levels (believe it or not) have been further improved.

We paid $75k with 12 months rego, 5 brand new tyres ($2500 worth) full factory extended warranty and the truck only has 60k on the odo - all still like brand new. It was only driven from an upmarket suburb in Sydney to the workplace and garaged at both ends.

It is badged as "vogue SE" but from what I can work out is what was sold as the tdv8 luxury model from 2007. Don't know the model specs as I still have to get a copy of the sales brochure of the time but the previous buyer paid $25k extra to get the full seating heating/cooling package and rear ICE. That may have been the diff between the vogue and the vogue SE (vogue luxury).

When I priced insurance, AAMI specify a market value of $130k but I suspect that that is done by them to discourage write-offs and to bump up their premiums. Carsales.com value that model as $68k-$75k based on 80k -130k kms.

[Camo]

Nice! you got an awesome deal:cool:

Gotta post up some pics

Camo

[Daniel]

....
Gotta post up some pics........

OK - pics - but I may need some help - in the past I was able to paste in pics direct to a post but now I can only work out have to paste in a link to pics - is there something I am missing or do I have to be a "subscriber" to allow me to paste in pics?

[Camo]

Ive only ever used photobucket. Works fine for me.

Camo

[Daniel]

Ive only ever used photobucket. Works fine for me.

Camo

OK I give up - what is "photobucket"?

[Laurie]

The new V8's are great, but what about maintainence down the track ? One advantage of the Td6 is you don't have to seperate the body from the chassis like the TdV6 variants for major work or engine replacement. ( don't know about the V8's ). This design philosophy bends the maintainence back to the stealers. Also electronics are not as reliable as they would have us believe, eg. the crank angle sensor is faulty :mad:your stuck even though mechanically there is nothing wrong :censored:
As electronics get smarter the diagnostics get a lot dearer, I would hate to think it would cost to replace the terrain suspension computer and sensor set up in later cars ?
The big question for older vehicles will be when they finally put a compulsory replacement age on airbags. The age has been increasing, but when you have to replace 6+ airbags. The prices are outrageous with some approaching $3k + ea. Hence a big jump in insurance premiums for new and second hand cars recently.

Don't get me wrong I'd love a later model, but the cost of maintainence without a warranty will have me keeping to the old models for the forseeable future !

[Daniel]

The new V8's are great, but what about maintainence down the track ? One advantage of the Td6 is you don't have to seperate the body from the chassis like the TdV6 variants for major work or engine replacement. ( don't know about the V8's ). This design philosophy bends the maintainence back to the stealers. Also electronics are not as reliable as they would have us believe, eg. the crank angle sensor is faulty :mad:your stuck even though mechanically there is nothing wrong :censored:
As electronics get smarter the diagnostics get a lot dearer, I would hate to think it would cost to replace the terrain suspension computer and sensor set up in later cars ?
The big question for older vehicles will be when they finally put a compulsory replacement age on airbags. The age has been increasing, but when you have to replace 6+ airbags. The prices are outrageous with some approaching $3k + Hence a big jump in insurance premiums for new and second hand cars recently.

The reality based on experience is a little different.

I have had far more trouble diagnosing the EMS in my 1994 RRC than any ECU in my '05 L322 td6. The ECUs today are so much more powerful and smarter than the older ones.

My Hawkeye purchased for $700 or so does every diagnostic function of every L322 from '02 - '12.

ECU - I've never had any ECU failing in service in any of my trucks - most issues appear to be with mechanical components connected to ECUs and the ECU correctly diagnoses what mechanical component has failed.

I've had/have 1988 RRC, 1989 RRC, 1994 RRC, 1996 P38A, 1999 td5 D2, 2005 L322 td6 and 2007 L322 tdv8.

Insurance? - I just insured my '07 L322 tdv8 for comprehensive market value for less than $600 pa.

My only experience with an ECU failure is on my son's 2003 Astra - Opel mounts the EMS ECU on a heat sink bolted to the engine head and they are known to heat induced failures. We simply replaced it with another from a wreck and drove off. We carried out the diagnosis with a bluetooth dongle purchased off eBay for $30 which connects to his smartphone. It reads and resets all EMS error codes. It does the same on my L322 EMS ECU.

[Laurie]

My horror story was with a Td5 ECU when it left me with a suddenly dead motor in traffic coming up out of Kangeroo Valley, I nearly had the rear tyre for a head rest ! On the side of the road for 2 hrs, it initally felt like the fuel cutoff had activated. Engine wasn't hot so I checked all fuel lines, filter, pump and relays and couldn't find anything. After the engine had cooled it started first pop and off it went. No faults displayed and the car was good for a few weeks and then it would just cut out I was able to restart on go so back to have faults read nothing !! This happened over a few months again so finally after exhausting all other ideas eg. PCV valve etc I sent the ECU away. When they rang they said they had found one of the rubber mounting grommets had fallen off the mainboard, and so a combination of heat and vehicle angle would get the board close enough to the ECU body it would arc out !!
They fixed it gratis, and I paid the freight so good that way, but it has left me very wary of total engine control systems. My story is very similar to a Doctors L322 Td6 which he refused to take back after it stopped again after LR fixed it !

Laurie

[Laurie]

Daniel I agree about trucks, we never had any problems at all ! but in the fleet cars we had a Nissan Pthfinder that would just stop ! 4 trips to the Dealer before it seems fixed. Out of the 3 new diesel Capivas we have which all have under 20K we had a blown gearbox and one that didn't want to change gears, both had electronic problems and the other mechanical I believe. The Kraptiva which blew I was in, we had no idea of trouble till we stopped for rest and then tried to drive on, no go; engine would just rev. Got out and noticed a large pool of oil under vehicle, then looked down the road at the trail we had left behind, thank God we were only going reasonably slow as there were no dash (idiot lights ) indications. I don't know how an electronic function punches a hole in the gearbox but surely you should get some indication of something.

Laurie

[Daniel]

My horror story was with a Td5 ECU when it left me with a suddenly dead motor in traffic coming up out of Kangeroo Valley, I nearly had the rear tyre for a head rest ! On the side of the road for 2 hrs, it initally felt like the fuel cutoff had activated. Engine wasn't hot so I checked all fuel lines, filter, pump and relays and couldn't find anything. After the engine had cooled it started first pop and off it went. No faults displayed and the car was good for a few weeks and then it would just cut out I was able to restart on go so back to have faults read nothing !! This happened over a few months again so finally after exhausting all other ideas eg. PCV valve etc I sent the ECU away. When they rang they said they had found one of the rubber mounting grommets had fallen off the mainboard, and so a combination of heat and vehicle angle would get the board close enough to the ECU body it would arc out !!
They fixed it gratis, and I paid the freight so good that way, but it has left me very wary of total engine control systems. My story is very similar to a Doctors L322 Td6 which he refused to take back after it stopped again after LR fixed it !

Laurie

Yeah OK but I see that as a mechanical issue (grommet falling out and allowing a short) and not an electronic issue. I still maintain that electronics is far more reliable than mechanics could ever hope to be.

A good example of that is the modern replacement of mechanical lamps with electronic lamps. Mechanical lamps (as invented by Edison with filaments) have a very limited life span especially on a truck like the L322.
Electronic lamps (LEDs) are for all intents and purposes everlasting.

There is a long list of mechanical to electronic component changes within motor cars that has helped make modern motor cars more reliable.

[Homestar]

OK - pics - but I may need some help - in the past I was able to paste in pics direct to a post but now I can only work out have to paste in a link to pics - is there something I am missing or do I have to be a "subscriber" to allow me to paste in pics?

You don't have to be a subscriber, but I'm sure your subscription would be greatly appreciated.:)


OK I give up - what is "photobucket"?
Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket (http://www.photobucket.com)
Upload your photos here - it's free to join, then copy and paste the IMG code into a post, and you will have your pics showing. Doing it this way saves the AULRO server being clogged up with photos. Each time you load a page, it loads the info straight from the Photobucket server.

Cheers - Gav

[Daniel]

Nice! you got an awesome deal:cool:

Gotta post up some pics

Camo

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/09/1330.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/09/1331.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/09/1332.jpg

[Camo]

Very flash:D