Addional LPG Tanks

[bussy1963]

Can anyone tell me if it is possible to fit additional LPG tanks to my 1994 Disco.

It is already fitted with LPG. 2x 40 litre scuba style at rear. What i am thinking is 2 scuba style tanks under front passenger side.

Just trying to get a bit more traveling range. currently get 300K's on current set up.

I have read about people fitted a extra petrol tank in that location.

Any suggestion or ideas would great



thanks

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Given that you already have 2 LPG tanks the valve arrangement for 3 or more LPG tanks are not recommended. While you could run two seperate LPG fillers and AFL valves, you are not supposed to have reserve tank change over taps in automotive LPG systems.

Is your car dual fuel or LPG only?

The submerged pumps for the full flow EFI system, don't work well with the shallow sill tanks. For the late RRc, there is a 30 litre tank that fits in the rear RHS corner just under the original filler, so I assume there is also one for the Disco. People then use sill tanks under the driver and passenger's floor for additional range. An electric fuel transfer pump is used to top up the 30 litre rear corner tank which is used for the full flow engine system.

[bee utey]

Switching over from one gas tank to another is perfectly legal so long as the tanks concerned are on separate fillers and all tanks have the correct non-return valve fitted to the engine. However the only currently available tank that fits reasonably under a D1 sill is 17 litres usable. Not worth the considerable expense. You would be better fitting a manifold tank inside, these are available second hand from Falcon wagons and hold around 60 litres.

I will dig out the relevant section of AS1425 later if anyone wants to know the exact wording.

You will save very little money with your extended range unless you do a lot of km on petrol.

Your economy can be improved by fitting an O2 sensor and a LPG fuel; processor, typical improvements of 10 to 20% are reported. This weighs very little and extends your range a bit.

[bussy1963]

Greetings all.

I have a 1994 Disco 1. fitted with twin scuba tank style lpg. Approx 60 litres.

What i am wondering if it possible to fit a extra tank or two under the front passenger side.

I have read there are petrol tanks that can be fitted in that space.

Realistically what i am trying to achieve is a greater touring range. Currently only getting on average 300k's hoping to achieve double so i can go camping in high country without the stress of worrying am i going to run out of fuel

[p38arover]

Threads merged. Don't pose the same question in multiple areas.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

You never told us if the petrol system on your engine is still intact. Is is a carby D1 or an EFI D1.

As I said before you can have sill (petrol tanks) but for the EFI which have a fuel pump submerged in the tank the sill tanks don't work well because of the length and shallow depth of the sill tanks.

You can fit sill tanks from a RRclassic straight onto a D1, the restriction is that you cant use the fillers through the rear passengers floor like the early RRc did (Law changed) the fillers are usually fitted inside the wheelarch.

For the rest of the answer see my post in your earlier thread above.

[p38arover]

LPG tank, Diana. :angel:

But for petrol:



As I said before you can have sill (petrol tanks) but for the EFI which have a fuel pump submerged in the tank the sill tanks don't work well because of the length and shallow depth of the sill tanks.


I used a transfer pump to move fuel from the sill tank to the main tank on my RRC.

Ron's Range Rover Classic Modifications (http://p38arover.com/rover/rovermod.html#auxtank)

Click on pics for larger image.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

<snip> ...
I have read about people fitted a extra petrol tank in that location.
... <snip>
LPG tank, Diana. :)

But for petrol:

I used a transfer pump to move fuel from the sill tank to the main tank on my RRC.

Ron's Range Rover Classic Modifications (http://p38arover.com/rover/rovermod.html#auxtank)

Click on pics for larger image.Hi Ron

Bussy1963 asked the same question yesterday then BeeUtey and I answered the question about fitting extra LPG tanks. Because he already has two LPG tanks the regular system of fillers and AFL valves between multiple tanks cant be used for additional tanks. When I asked my LPG fitter and others, was told that I couldn't have a change over tap for additional tanks but Beeutey has clarified that.

The issue is that with only 150mm of height in the sill of a D1, LPG tanks in that area will protrude about 60mm below the chassis, obstruct the ramp over angle and be vulnerable to rocks. The specials made for that area will only carry about 17litres of LPG and cost more than the the standard size tanks already fitted but a pair will only extend the range by about 150Km. Beeutey's suggestion of a manifold tank on the floor of the D1, will be the most cost effective way of extending range on LPG and will likely double the range to about 600Km total but lose valuable storage inside the car.

Petrol sill tanks then become a cheaper option at extending range, particularly when they can be salvaged from RRc currently being wrecked, although Bussey1963 doesn't seem to have the main fuel tank to use and why I suggested the reserve tank used in the late classics that had the scuba tanks.

Diana

[bee utey]

FYI from AS1425:


4.7 MULTIPLE CONTAINER INSTALLATIONS
Where more than one fuel container is installed and the liquid spaces are interconnected to a common fuel service line, a spring loaded non-return valve shall be installed between each container and the common fuel service line and the fuel service line shall be provided with a hydrostatic relief valve.
Automatic fuel shut-off devices shall not be operated independently on a multiple container installation with a common fill point.

PS a reminder that there are no "scuba tanks" on a LPG system, it's like someone calling your Land Rover a Jeep.

There are skinny and fat cylinders, there are long and short cylinders, there are end fill and side fill cylinders, but definitely no breathing equipment.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I think that most people refer to a pair of APA H66 tanks as scuba tanks. But now you've let us know I won't use them for spear fishing. :D

Also Bee Utey, just for my understanding. You can have two tanks fitted with a single filler/AFL, but not three?
On the fuel supply side all tanks must have a non-return valve between the common supply line and each tank?
If you have two individual fillers connected to one or more tanks each, can you use the "automatic fuel shut-off" connected to one filler as an effective reserve switch as long as all tanks connected to that filler are switched together?

[bee utey]

I think that most people refer to a pair of APA H66 tanks as scuba tanks. But now you've let us know I won't use them for spear fishing. :D
And I have a fridge full of scuba tanks, 'cept they contain beer and soft drink and stuff.:angel::p

[p38arover]

I think that most people refer to a pair of APA H66 tanks as scuba tanks. But now you've let us know I won't use them for spear fishing. :D

Manifold tanks?

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Manifold tanks?Thats the problem, some people call the G84MAN the scuba tank and others call the pair of H66 in place of the main fuel tank a pair of scuba tanks.

[bee utey]

Manifold tanks?

A manifold tank contains two or more cylinders welded together as one tank, with one valve block for the lot. The Falcon XA-EL wagon one has 3, dedicated Falcon sedans and wagons and aftermarket Territory systems have two cylinders welded together. What two H66's are is twin tanks.:)

Edit: it's actually called scooba, I found this out on the internetz....

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LPG-GAS-TANK-SCOOBA-GAS-TANK-/160827897681?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item257216f751

Edit again, it's actually scoober:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Scoober-Gas-Tank-Lpg-Ford-Wagon-/290729772482?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43b0d845c2

[Lotz-A-Landies]

One can't help the illiterate!

SCUBA = Self Contained Underwater Breathing Aparatus

Only a few SCUBA these days have more than 1 tank and rarely 3.

[bee utey]

Also Bee Utey, just for my understanding.

You can have two tanks fitted with a single filler/AFL, but not three?
On the fuel supply side all tanks must have a non-return valve between the common supply line and each tank?
If you have two individual fillers connected to one or more tanks each, can you use the "automatic fuel shut-off" connected to one filler as an effective reserve switch as long as all tanks connected to that filler are switched together?



AFL refers to the maximum liquid level float valve installed into each tank, set at a maximum 80% +/- 1% of the cylinder volume, with the cylinder at its correct orientation. They have specified performances in the flow rate to the tank after they shut off the inlet flow. This is to allow the valve to reset. This is why you can trickle a tank fulller than 80% in some cases as the bypass lets a bit of gas through. This is why you are supposed to stop at the "clunk" of the valve operating, unlike what the dood did with the 100 series Toy with fumigation.

1. Theoretically you can have 3 tanks, each with its own AFL, running off a single filler. In practice, many AFL's will not shut off under a certain flow rate, which can be hard to achieve with two tanks. Axiom brand AFL's are particularly troublesome in this regard (fitted to later style APA tanks) Older Robertshaw screw-in AFL's would shut off at a much lower flow rate. Filler manufacturers (AMR especially) now make higher flow filler valves to cope with this problem, especially the D1 and RRC fillers. Together with 10mm fill hose they are generally reliable. Ford uses 1/2 inch steel filler pipes on their twin tank ute set-ups. Personally I wouldn't have 3 tanks on one filler as the risk of overfilling is way too high.

2. Correct. Twin tank installs usually have a unified dual non-return valve/relief valve on the supply side. Extra tanks can be plumbed in with single non-return valves or another dual valve if suitably arranged (cascaded). Ford factory tanks have the non-return valve fitted directly to the tank outlet. It can be raided and fitted to any extra tank with a suitable outlet thread.

3. Tanks filled off individual filler points can be controlled electrically via a selector switch which takes the safety cut-out output and switches it to either tank or both, as required. It is the electric solenoid on the service valve on the outlet that you are switching, not the inlet. "Automatic fuel shut-off" refers to the operation of this solenoid on the service valve, in conjunction with the safety cut-out. Together they automatically close off any tank connected to the engine in the event of the engine stalling, within a couple of seconds.