GPS Legalities in NSW

[RVR110]

About 8am on Saturday morning on my way to Lidsdale State Forest I was waved into a breathalyzer queue by the police. The officer took a long look at the (empty) mounting bracket on my dashboard and asked what I put in it. I replied that it held an iPad for navigation which quite surprised him. Being the cautious type I don't have the iPad in the mounting bracket whilst travelling on tar as I wouldn't want an officer mistakenly thinking that I had it there for entertainment or email purposes.

Anyway, the point is that the officer questioned the legality of having the iPad there on the grounds that it obstructed my vision. I assured him it doesn't. Since the iPad wasn't mounted at the time he didn't take the matter any further. However he did note that police are now tending to regard larger windscreen mounted GPS units as obstructing the driver's vision. From the context of the conversation, I interpreted "larger GPS" to mean 5" or 6" and above.

I've included a photo of my iPad mount for context, but would note that the photo is taken below the driver's eye-level so in the photo it appears to block more of the windscreen than it actually does. Mostly, the iPad obscures my view of the bonnet, not of the road.

I have to review the mounting position because when I use the car's heater it heats up the back of the iPad. One day it got to the point where the iPad decided that it was no longer within it's operating parameters so it gave me a warning message then shut down. When I do that review, I will also take the policeman's comments into account and endeavor to position the mount somewhere that is less controversial. That might mean half obscuring the hazard switch though... and adding some deflectors to redirect air from the rectangular vents away from the back of the iPad.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[Hymie]

It would be quite ok on my 130, it would only obscure my view of the spare tyre.

[RVR110]

It would be quite ok on my 130, it would only obscure my view of the spare tyre.

LOL. It's a good thing the spare tyre isn't electronic because then it would probably be illegal.

I did refrain from pointing out to the officer that the empty bracket obscures almost as much of my vision as it does when the iPad is present...

He also gave my tyres a long hard look but I think he was mainly assessing the amount of tread. The tyres are standard size (235x85xr16) so it wouldn't have been a problem if he'd wanted to check further.

[Bigbjorn]

There is a legal definition of the position of the driver's eyes. A point 730 mm aboveand 270 mm forward of the junction of the seat cushion and seat back with the seat in its lowest and rearmost position. Accessories must not be in the driver's line of sight in such a way as to impede a view of the road.

I wonder what our sheriffs and deputies would make of a Passport/Escort GPS navigator that also has a laser/radar detection function which is not obvious to the uninitiated. It can be said to be a WiFi connection locator.

[RVR110]

There is a legal definition of the position of the driver's eyes. A point 730 mm aboveand 270 mm forward of the junction of the seat cushion and seat back with the seat in its lowest and rearmost position. Accessories must not be in the driver's line of sight in such a way as to impede a view of the road.

I wonder what our sheriffs and deputies would make of a Passport/Escort GPS navigator that also has a laser/radar detection function which is not obvious to the uninitiated. It can be said to be a WiFi connection locator.

Thanks - I'll keep that in mind when I review the iPad location.

I've always wondered about the usefulness of a laser detector - wouldn't your speed already have been measured by the time the detector alerted you to the presence of the laser? I'm happy with the warnings from my TomTom for fixed location speed cameras and anyway I don't think I've ever been booked for speeding in the Defender...

[mikehzz]

I have mine way over on the left hand side so that it isn't really in the way unless I have a passenger. Luckily I have no friends so no problem. :)

[Bigbjorn]

Thanks - I'll keep that in mind when I review the iPad location.

I've always wondered about the usefulness of a laser detector - wouldn't your speed already have been measured by the time the detector alerted you to the presence of the laser? I'm happy with the warnings from my TomTom for fixed location speed cameras and anyway I don't think I've ever been booked for speeding in the Defender...

Have a look at their web site. They claim to give early warning.

[PhilipA]

Have a look at their web site. They claim to give early warning.

My recollection from years ago is that they can "see" the signal if the cop targets someone in front ( or behind) for quite a distance, BUT of course if there isn't much traffic you are on your own.

Regards Philip A

[John W]

Do you mind (RVR110) telling what maps and apps you use on the iPad and your happiness level with it?

[Davehoos]

its actualy ilegal because the dash has to be impact friendly and loose items.

not that all of the other junk availabe is.the funny one i come across is chrome parts on the steering or indicators.

[RVR110]

Do you mind (RVR110) telling what maps and apps you use on the iPad and your happiness level with it?

Hi John,

I use Memory-Map and as you've probably guessed from the thread I have the Topo NSW (http://memory-map.com.au/digital-maps/topographic-maps-australia/topographic-maps-nsw.html) Maps from Memory-Map, plus the default map pack that comes with the App. I'm very happy with it all. Last time I was on our annual pilgrimage to the Victorian High Country I used the 2 week trial of the Topo Victoria maps and will buy them when I head down there next time. I have my iPhone set up as a backup navigation device, plus I do my planning on the PC using the same software & maps. I tried Mud Maps on the iPhone but decided that it wasn't for me.

As for other iPad apps related to 4WDriving, I have Pocket Weather, Fires Near Me NSW and Star Walk. I have PDFs of the workshop manuals for my car loaded into iBooks, along with user manuals for my various car accessories (UHF, stereo etc). I also have Rev and DashCmd for use with my Kiwi WiFi PLX (http://plxdevices.com/product_info.php?id=GSSTWIFI). I use Carbonite for backups which allows me to access all of the files that have been backed up from my home PC while I'm on the road.

Regards,
John.

[RVR110]

its actualy ilegal because the dash has to be impact friendly and loose items.

not that all of the other junk availabe is.the funny one i come across is chrome parts on the steering or indicators.

I guess that makes about 90% of all cars on the road illegal... Come to think of it, the term "impact friendly" doesn't immediately leap to mind as a description for the standard defender dash!

Cheers,
John.

[Reads90]

As a person thats work is on the road all the time

You would not believe the Amount of people you see on the road who have GPS units sat in the middle of the windscreen or right in front of their vision in the middle of the windscreen. Right in their line of sight and dame right dangerous. Just look around you when you drive and you will see what I mean. This is what police should be rightfully cracking down on

And you know that these people , by the look of the car never ever really go anywhere apart from to the shop , work and pick their kids up from school. And the gps is just a toy and status symbol rather than use to find where they are going. After all why do you need a gps to be on to go to the shopping center.

Ok pommie winge off

[mudmouse]

Going back to Brian's post in regard to Laser/Radar detectors, I recall the fine for 'possess', and 'fail to surrender speed evasion article' are about $1100 each carrying 6 or 7 demerit points.

The laser/radar operate on light and electromagnetic radio waves, so yes, by the time the unit gives an audible alert and you lift your foot and/or react to reduce speed, your speed has been registered by the Radar or Lidar (laser).

I will check the website, because it sounds interesting.

You do see some dopes with the GPS mount at eye level, but then you see a lot of other dumb things on the road too.

The other issue that may have been raised by police is that it is an offence to have a 'TV' playing and in view of the driver whilst the vehicle is in motion. This does not include the moving map display of a GPS, as it is considered a 'drivers aide'.

I don't think Legislators have considered reversing cameras and the image displayed, but there's still time for them :p

Matt.

[OffTrack]

There is so much crap posted about mounts on the internets it's a bit difficult to work out what is legal and what is not. The Australian Road Rules Feb 2009 has the following rules relating to visual displays and mobile phones:


Rule 299: Television receivers and visual display units in motor vehicles

(1) A driver must not drive a motor vehicle that has a television receiver or visual display unit in or on the vehicle operating while the vehicle is moving, or is stationary but not parked, if any part of the image on the screen:
(a) is visible to the driver from the normal driving osition; or
(b) is likely to distract another driver.

Offence provision.

Note Motor vehicle and park is defined in the dictionary, and vehicle is defined in rule 15.
(2) This rule does not apply to the driver if:

(a) the driver is driving a bus and the visual display unit is, or displays, a destination sign or other bus sign; or
(b) the vehicle is not a motor bike and the visual display unit is, or is part of, a driver’s aid and either –

(i) is an integrated part of the vehicle design; or
(ii) is secured in a mounting affixed to the vehicle while being used; or
(ba) the visual display unit is a mobile data terminal fitted to a police vehicle or an emergency vehicle; or
Note Police vehicle and emergency vehicle are defined in the dictionary.
(c) the driver or vehicle is exempt from this rule under another law of this jurisdiction.
(3) For the purposes of subrule (2)(b)(ii), a visual display unit is secured in a mounting affixed to the vehicle if, and only if –

(a) the mounting is commercially designed and manufactured for that purpose; and
(b) the unit is secured in the mounting, and the mounting is affixed to the vehicle, in the manner intended by the manufacturer.
Examples of driver’s aids
1 Closed-circuit television security cameras.
2 Dispatch systems.
3 Navigational or intelligent highway and vehicle system equipment.
4 Rearview screens.
5 Ticket-issuing machines.
6 Vehicle monitoring devices.
Note Bus is defined in the dictionary.

and



Rule 300 Use of mobile phones
(1) The driver of a vehicle must not use a mobile phone while the vehicle is moving, or is stationary but not parked, unless:

(a) the phone is being used to make or receive a phone call (other than a text message, video message, email or similar communication) and the body of the phone:

(i) is secured in a mounting affixed to the vehicle while being so used; or
(ii) is not secured in a mounting affixed to the vehicle and is not being held by the driver, and the use of the phone does not require the driver, at any time while using it, to press any thing on the body of the phone or to otherwise manipulate any part of the body of the phone; or
(b) the vehicle is an emergency vehicle or a police vehicle; or
(c) the driver is exempt from this rule under another law of this jurisdiction.

Offence provision.
Note Emergency vehicle, park and police vehicle are defined in the dictionary.

(2) For the purposes of this rule, a mobile phone is secured in a mounting affixed to the vehicle if, and only if—

(a) the mounting is commercially designed and manufactured for that purpose; and
(b) the mobile phone is secured in the mounting, and the mounting is affixed to the vehicle, in the manner intended by the manufacturer.
(3) For the purposes of this rule, a driver does not use a phone to receive a text message, video message, email or similar communication if:

(a) the communication is received automatically by the phone; and
(b) on and after receipt, the communication itself (rather than any indication that the communication has been received) does not become automatically visible on the screen of the phone.
(4) In this rule:

affixed to, in relation to a vehicle, includes forming part of the vehicle;

body, in relation to a mobile phone, means the part of the phone that contains the majority of the phone's mechanisms;

held includes held by, or resting on, any part of the driver's body, but does not include held in a pocket of the driver's clothing or in a pouch worn by the driver;

mobile phone does not include a CB radio or any other two-way radio;

use, in relation to a mobile phone, includes any of the following actions by a driver:

(a) holding the body of the phone in her or his hand (whether or not engaged in a phone call), except while in the process of giving the body of the phone to a passenger in the vehicle;
(b) entering or placing, other than by the use of voice, anything into the phone, or sending or looking at anything that is in the phone;
(c) turning the phone on or off;
(d) operating any other function of the phone.

These rules are determined in conjunction with State Attorney-Generals and the state road rules should be very similar the Australian rules.

In Victoria the rules regarding navigation devices are directly referenced to rules 299 and 300.

NSW road rules 299 and 300 are virtually identical to the national rules:

http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/fragview/inforce/subordleg+179+2008+pt.18-div.1-rule.299+0+N'tocnav=y

http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/fragview/inforce/subordleg+179+2008+pt.18-div.1-rule.300+0+N'tocnav=y

So as far as I can see there is nothing in the road rules which prohibits windscreen mounting of larger units like iPads, providing they are mounted in a commercially produced mount which is used in the way intended by the manufacturer.

If you are fined while using a commercial mount I think you'd have very good basis for appeal. Police cannot arbitrarily invent road rules, although I'm sure some think they have the right.

Note that there is an Amendment Package to the Australian Road Rules dated October 2011. This contains a proposed change to Rule 299 which is designed " to correct an earlier drafting error and ensure motor bike riders are treated like drivers of other vehicles." No other changes relating to Navigation devices or mobile phones are mentioned.

cheers
Paul

[THE BOOGER]

I dont think the type of mount is the problem but where the mount is, anything above the dash could be deemed to be obstructing the drivers view:) Remember even fluffy dice on the mirror can attrack a fine and will be upheld by a magistrate. The op was about obstructing the drivers view.

[OffTrack]

Remember even fluffy dice on the mirror can attrack a fine and will be upheld by a magistrate.

What piece of legislation defines this as an offence and the fine? It's certainly not in the Australian Road Rules and it doesn't appear to be in the ADR's.

[mudmouse]

I dont think the type of mount is the problem but where the mount is, anything above the dash could be deemed to be obstructing the drivers view:) Remember even fluffy dice on the mirror can attrack a fine and will be upheld by a magistrate. The op was about obstructing the drivers view.

Yep, I think they see it as anything in the 'head impact area' that may cause a drama in addition to obscuring the drivers view.

The thing on the dash (which may contravene ADR's) may score you a defect notice, whilst the obscured view may score you a fine - either way i'd demonstrate the required attitude, cop the tip and remove it until the issue can be clarified by legislation, insurance and the registering body.

It's a punish jumping through hoops but if there's an 'out' for an insurance company in regard to a personal injury claim, either as an occupant or pedestrian, they'll grab it and choke the living crap out of it to get their desired result.

Matt.

[OffTrack]

TBH I'd rather be informed before being forced to "assume the position". And unfortunately that seems to mean reading the legislation.

I've found QLD police advisory information indicating that anything that "If an object, such as an item hanging from a rearview mirror, or a GPS device obstructs your vision it must be moved to a different place or removed." Fine = $45. There is no attempt to define what constitutes "obstructs".

[OffTrack]

This is the closest I can find:

Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 42/00 – General Safety Requirements) 2006


42.10. FIELD OF VIEW

42.10.1. A motor vehicle must not be so constructed or equipped nor must anything be affixed thereto in such a manner as to prevent the driver from having an adequate view of traffic on either side of the vehicle and in all directions in front of the vehicle to enable the vehicle to be driven with safety.


Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 42/01 - General Safety Requirements) 2006


42.16. TELEVISION AND VISUAL DISPLAY UNITS

42.16.1. General

All television receivers or visual display units and their associated equipment must be securely mounted in a position which:

42.16.1.1. does not obscure the driver’s vision;

42.16.1.2. does not impede driver or passenger movement in the vehicle; and

42.16.1.3. is unlikely to increase the risk of occupant injury.

42.16.2. Restriction on Visibility of Screen

Unless a driver’s aid, all television receivers or visual display units must be installed so that no part of the image on the screen is visible to the driver from the normal driving position.



You'd have to assume that a mounting location above the centre console is unlikely to increase risk of occupant injury, impede driver or passenger movement in the vehicle. Unless you are driving a Landy with a bench front seat of course, but then you'll fall foul of the other criteria anyway. The only question is whether the device obscures the drivers view of the traffic to the front of the vehicle.

cheers
Paul

[d3syd]

The laser/radar operate on light and electromagnetic radio waves, so yes, by the time the unit gives an audible alert and you lift your foot and/or react to reduce speed, your speed has been registered by the Radar or Lidar (laser).

I will check the website, because it sounds interesting.



Radar detectors are able to pick up regular radars (X, K, Ka band) long before they are able record your speed, provided that the radar is being operated at the time. If however the radar is off and turned on only at the last moment when it is within range to register your speed, it will be too late and you will get pinged.

As for lasers, I am not sure what sort of range they have, but I think they are able to record your speed from a long long distance. Therefore I think the only way your detector can detect them before they get you is if they are not being pointed directly at you, ie. at the car in front of you for example.

[mudmouse]

Yep, the radar detectors will only detect the radar when the beam is released, but the radar beam is only released to provide a 'number' to reflect the operators estimation. So as an operator, you see a car, estimate it's speed and check its speed using a radar or lidar. As far as prosecution goes, the allegation of the offence relies on the estimation of the operator then the radar/lidar display.

The radar/lidar will register a speed within about half a second, so that's sufficient time prior to 'us' reacting and reducing speed.

If you think of a radar beam as a 'shot gun' blast covering a wide area, and a lidar beam as a 'rifle' shot being more concentrated, the probability of a detector picking up a radar being is greater than a lidar. The effective user range of each is about 600 metres, but the theory of radio wave and light wave propagation gives them an infinite range.

At a range of 100m the beam width of the lidar is 40cm.

Anyway, a bit off topic, but there you go.


Matt.

[THE BOOGER]

What piece of legislation defines this as an offence and the fine? It's certainly not in the Australian Road Rules and it doesn't appear to be in the ADR's.

Rule 229 1,a as posted by you;)
I think brian gave a definition of what constitutes the drivers line of view
The australian road rules have,nt been adopted nationaly yet(if ever) we still rely on a state by state systym just to make things difficult

[dullbird]

Yep, the radar detectors will only detect the radar when the beam is released, but the radar beam is only released to provide a 'number' to reflect the operators estimation. So as an operator, you see a car, estimate it's speed and check its speed using a radar or lidar. As far as prosecution goes, the allegation of the offence relies on the estimation of the operator then the radar/lidar display.

The radar/lidar will register a speed within about half a second, so that's sufficient time prior to 'us' reacting and reducing speed.

If you think of a radar beam as a 'shot gun' blast covering a wide area, and a lidar beam as a 'rifle' shot being more concentrated, the probability of a detector picking up a radar being is greater than a lidar. The effective user range of each is about 600 metres, but the theory of radio wave and light wave propagation gives them an infinite range.

At a range of 100m the beam width of the lidar is 40cm.

Anyway, a bit off topic, but there you go.


Matt.

Sorry bit of topic but i have always wondered do radar/lidars work at night? or do they only work during the day..you only ever see cops doing it during the day is all

[Didge]

Aren't you and Ian supposed to be on your way to the cape or are you checking in on your way?????? :ps Radars will work anytime but I guess it could be hard to focus on a car at night and what's a lidar?

[vnx205]

Sorry bit of topic but i have always wondered do radar/lidars work at night? or do they only work during the day..you only ever see cops doing it during the day is all

My impression, based on a comment made by a member of the police force a couple of decades ago was that it was a safety issue. Apparently there is a risk to operators when visibility is bad.

[THE BOOGER]

These day OH&S makes all police wear safety vests when working on or around roads:) But radar and Lidar definitely dont work in the rain:D

[isuzutoo-eh]

They use them at night near me, car parked halfway up someone's driveway or on the edge of a park, hairdryer out the window...

[OffTrack]

Rule 229 1,a as posted by you;)
I think brian gave a definition of what constitutes the drivers line of view
The australian road rules have,nt been adopted nationaly yet(if ever) we still rely on a state by state systym just to make things difficult

Booger, Rule 299 1,a defines what devices are allowable within the drivers range of vision. It doesn't discuss obstructions.

The definition Brian gave is actually part of the requirements for maximum size of a bonnet scoop. I guess you could extend that to dash mounted GPS. The key requirement for bonnet scoops is that you can see the full front edge of the bonnet from the standard eye position.

[Didge]

They use them at night near me, car parked halfway up someone's driveway or on the edge of a park, hairdryer out the window...
nothing wrong with a blow... at night :)

I know what a liar is but still no one's told me what a lidar is --- help!!!!!!!


off topic but -
Just watching some show on SBS about Lotus' latest concept cars which look really really good (for grocery shoppping oops gotta get tongue out of cheek) and they interview Stirling Moss I (what a name eh?, for those of us old enough to remember him!) and he looks at the cars at 83 years of age and says " if you had one of those, you'd get all the girls". Oh, I just love the male mentality and drive, ya have to, don't ya?! He probably hasn't had a shag for years but still sees sex in everything he looks at - god I hope I still have the same delusional capacities at that age (if the missus doesn't kill me beforehand) :p

[Bigbjorn]

Booger, Rule 299 1,a defines what devices are allowable within the drivers range of vision. It doesn't discuss obstructions.

The definition Brian gave is actually part of the requirements for maximum size of a bonnet scoop. I guess you could extend that to dash mounted GPS. The key requirement for bonnet scoops is that you can see the full front edge of the bonnet from the standard eye position.

From past dealings with Qld. Transport, an obstruction is defined as anything that protrudes into the driver's line of sight over the standard bonnet line, not just scoops. About the only exception is that one only large base radio antenna may be fitted to the left side of a bull bar or bumper. It must not be practical to mount it anywhere else, must be mounted as low as possible, and the base may be no more than 75mm diameter.

Driving lights and bull bars get specific mention. You must not be able to see them from the driver's position, and, lights may not be mounted above or to the top of the bullbar.

In other words, anything that is between your eyes and the road is not kosher.

[OffTrack]

Thanks Brian.

That seems the simplest way to deal with it.

FWIW I have finally managed to track down a definition of "field of view" in a document titled "Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule - Definitions and Vehicle Categories) 2005" publication date 28/03/2012.



FIELD OF VIEW – the area within a cone of vision having an included apex angle of 40º and the axis horizontal and parallel to the longitudinal axis of the vehicle loaded to the design load on horizontal ground. The apex of the cone shall be a point midway between the eyes of the ‘Driver’s Eye Position’ (ADR 12).


DRIVER’S EYE POSITION – The position for eyes corresponding to the rearmost eye position on the ‘95th Percentile Eye Ellipse’ (ADR 12).

Unfortunately ADR 12 (which is obsolete btw) refers to a range of SAE and ISO standards for determining the position of the eye ellipse. It does mention that the eye position is at the rearmost point of the ellipse, so this would imply with the seat in it's rear most point of travel.

This definition is possibly less restrictive on placement than the one given for bonnet scoops, bull bars, etc in that it defines field of view in terms of the driver looking straight ahead.

cheers
Paul

[mudmouse]

Aren't you and Ian supposed to be on your way to the cape or are you checking in on your way?????? :ps Radars will work anytime but I guess it could be hard to focus on a car at night and what's a lidar?

Day or night doesn't matter to the instrument, it's the operator that can have troubles with vehicle identification (if there's multiple targets or if sight of the target is lost during the catch up). There are far fewer police rostered at night, mainly due to shift penalties, and also drink driving seems to be more prevalent at night - but they're out there Jerry!

A lidar is a 'speed measuring device'. The acronym stands for Light Detection and Ranging. They were developed from range finders, so they have two functions, 1) to establish a range (typically accurate to within 20cm), and 2) to apply a 'time of flight' or change in time as the beam reflects off a moving target. Speed = Distance / Time. They're accurate to within 2kph and will register a speed almost instantly.

As Boogieman said, rain does affect them because the transmitted and reflected light beam hits the raindrops and gets slowed down, affecting the reading. It'd be bugger all, but enough to effect an operating guideline or policy that could be challenged at court as to the instruments accuracy.

Radars (Radio Detection and Ranging) work on the same principle of reflection and time of flight, only they use electromagnetic radio waves as opposed to light. The effective range of both is affected by visible (moisture) particles (rain, fog and dust etc) because they interfere with the transmitted and reflected medium.

Radars can be used in both moving mode for approaching targets, and stationary mode for approaching and receding targets, however the Lidar can only be used in stationary mode - the operator is 'stationary' - for approaching and receding targets.

Hope this helps...


Matt.

[barney]

the legislation reads to allow GPS and rear vision devices mounted on approved device, designed for that purpose.
so all that's cool, but if it comes down to the Ipad obscuring your view, then technically, every GPS that attaches via a suction device to your windscreen could potentially obscure your view of something out the front of the car as it covers an area of the windscreen.

[OffTrack]

the legislation reads to allow GPS and rear vision devices mounted on approved device, designed for that purpose.
so all that's cool, but if it comes down to the Ipad obscuring your view, then technically, every GPS that attaches via a suction device to your windscreen could potentially obscure your view of something out the front of the car as it covers an area of the windscreen.

Not really. The issue isn't covering an area of the windscreen, it is obscuring the view of the road. I use a 6" GPS unit in a D2. With a windscreen mount close to the bottom of the screen I can see the full width of the front edge of the bonnet over the top of the GPS, so the view of the road is not obscured in any way.

[barney]

Not really. The issue isn't covering an area of the windscreen, it is obscuring the view of the road. I use a 6" GPS unit in a D2. With a windscreen mount close to the bottom of the screen I can see the full width of the front edge of the bonnet over the top of the GPS, so the view of the road is not obscured in any way.

didn't say it would, I said it potentially could. this would be based on the half-cocked formula the police have been given to determine if a device restricts your view. it probably has nothing to do with the fact that it only obscures your view of your bonnet.
you know how these things work!

[OffTrack]

While it's not NSW, VicRoads has a bulletin that describes the Victorian Driver's Field of View Requirements. The requirements are based on Australian Design Rule No.8, so should be roughly applicable to all states.

The bulletin was published in 2000, so unfortunately doesn't directly address phones and GPS but you have to assume the same requirements apply.

VSI29.pdf (http://vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rdonlyres/DFC160FA-319C-4AE0-8212-C38F81C44007/0/VSI29.pdf)

This is the FoV diagram from the bulletin.

48656

As can be seen the the requirement is that road surface 11 metres ahead of the drivers eye position is visible without obstruction.

ADR 8 has the following clauses covering primary vision area:


8.3.2.1. The primary vision area shall include the area of the windscreen between a plane tangential to the top of the ‘95th Percentile Eye Ellipses’, inclined 10 degrees above the horizontal measured parallel to the longitudinal axis of the vehicle, to a plane tangential to the bottom of the ‘95th Percentile Eye Ellipses’, which includes a horizontal line at ground level transverse to the longitudinal axis of the vehicle and 11 m from the rearmost eye position on the ‘95th Percentile Eye Ellipses’, measured horizontally and parallel to the longitudinal axis of the vehicle and between a vertical plane tangential to the outboard of the ‘95th Percentile Eye Ellipses’ and inclined 15 degrees to the right, to a vertical plane tangential to the inboard of the ‘95th Percentile Eye Ellipses’ and inclined 56 degrees to the left.

8.3.2.1.1. Notwithstanding the requirements of clause 8.3.2.1 it shall be permissible to exclude from the primary vision area, any area of glass within 65 mm of the upper and lower edges of the glass and 90 mm of the side edges of the glass.

The illustration from VSI29 describes the same requirements as section 8.3.2.1 .

cheers
Paul

[Daniel]

I wonder what our sheriffs and deputies would make of a Passport/Escort GPS navigator that also has a laser/radar detection function which is not obvious to the uninitiated. It can be said to be a WiFi connection locator.
.
.
But can one get the Passport iQ with Australian GPS maps?

[easo]

http://lawrences.id.au/defender/ipad_a.jpg

Just off topic... the row of top left buttons... is the middle one a out line of the map of Australia? Probably just my eyes.

Easo

[RVR110]

Just off topic... the row of top left buttons... is the middle one a out line of the map of Australia? Probably just my eyes.
Easo

Your eyes are fine Easo...

From left to right:

Compressor
GPS & Mobile Phone Power
Rear demister (standard)
Hazard Lights (standard of course)
Rear Work (Camping) Lights
LED Light Bar
Rear Fog Lamp (standard)

[dullbird]

Your eyes are fine Easo...

From left to right:

Compressor

GPS & Mobile Phone Power
Rear demister (standard)
Hazard Lights (standard of course)
Rear Work (Camping) Lights
LED Light Bar
Rear Fog Lamp (standard)



So when you push that button does that power your Ipad? have you hard wired power for your Ipad,,if so can you tell me what you did? via PM or another thread of course so we dont go to off topic

[mick88]

There is a legal definition of the position of the driver's eyes. A point 730 mm aboveand 270 mm forward of the junction of the seat cushion and seat back with the seat in its lowest and rearmost position. Accessories must not be in the driver's line of sight in such a way as to impede a view of the road.

I wonder what our sheriffs and deputies would make of a Passport/Escort GPS navigator that also has a laser/radar detection function which is not obvious to the uninitiated. It can be said to be a WiFi connection locator.

What about windscreen wipers?

[cal415]

I have almost exactly the same setup except i use the 3 suction cap mount on the windscreen, takes about 30 seconds to put on and take off, works great.

One question, what are the little white tabs on yours, it looks like strips of foam? mine doesnt have this, is this to fit a ipad2? i have used ipad 1, 2 and 3 in mine, the craddle is designed for a ipad1 so with the thinner ipad2 and 3 i have had to use some soft material behind them to pack them out to stop them moving in the craddle.

[nugge t]

I installed a car pc which runs windows XP and mounted the 10.4" touch screen in dash. Doesn't limit the drivers view except a bit on the left front. The software does not allow access to Windows whilst the vehicle is moving.

Guess I shouldn't have used a flash either!!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/08/1285.jpg

[RVR110]

One question, what are the little white tabs on yours, it looks like strips of foam? mine doesnt have this, is this to fit a ipad2? i have used ipad 1, 2 and 3 in mine, the craddle is designed for a ipad1 so with the thinner ipad2 and 3 i have had to use some soft material behind them to pack them out to stop them moving in the craddle.

I have an iPad2 and (as you thought) the white tabs are foam used to keep the iPad2 nice and snug. They have since been replaced with black pads.