Alpine Diesel - how much to fill to prevent waxing issues

[PCH]

Hi there,

What is the recomended amount to fill into the tank to prevent wax issues in the diesel. from freezing outside temps?

Do I fill 25%, 50%, 75% with Alpine Diesel if the capacity of the tank is say 80lt?

Thanks

Chris

[ade]

fill as much as you need to get around while in the alpine areas

[tomalophicon]

Hi there,

What is the recomended amount to fill into the tank to prevent wax issues in the diesel. from freezing outside temps?

Do I fill 25%, 50%, 75% with Alpine Diesel if the capacity of the tank is say 80lt?

Thanks

Chris

Chris, can you explain what waxing is?
I had a minus 8 morning yesterday and found it extremely hard to start the 300tdi.

[PCH]

Chris, can you explain what waxing is?
I had a minus 8 morning yesterday and found it extremely hard to start the 300tdi.

Here is a bit of an explaination:

Winter diesel fuel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Regards,

Chris

[MR LR]

We just drive from Sydeny and top the tank off at Cooma with alpine diesel before we head up the mountain, car stays at bullocks flat for a week.

[lrdef110]

Not sure if the 3.0 litre is more sensitive to the cold to a 2.7litre but we camped at Howitt Plain in early December and a 2.7 litre D3 started first go in the morning after a very cold night but my 3.0l took half an hour to start using the glow plugs. We both had similar volumes of fuel in our tanks. Neither of us had alpine diesel (didn't think it necessary in December and it is not readily available at that time of the year). There were 4 other diesels from the dark side with us and all of these started OK although one just got going after having to swap from a part full tank to a full tank.
Cheers

[tomalophicon]

I remember seeing a doco about Stalingrad, and the Germans used to light fires under their tanks' tanks before starting them.

[Tusker]

Not sure if the 3.0 litre is more sensitive to the cold to a 2.7litre but we camped at Howitt Plain in early December and a 2.7 litre D3 started first go in the morning after a very cold night but my 3.0l took half an hour to start using the glow plugs. We both had similar volumes of fuel in our tanks. Neither of us had alpine diesel (didn't think it necessary in December and it is not readily available at that time of the year). There were 4 other diesels from the dark side with us and all of these started OK although one just got going after having to swap from a part full tank to a full tank.
Cheers

I would think this purely dependent where they were parked - which were sheltered by huts etc, & which were exposed. It used to be common practice in the bush to park alongside a shed in winter, to keep a cranky diesel out of the prevailing wind overnight.

Regards
Max P

[mowog]

I remember seeing a doco about Stalingrad, and the Germans used to light fires under their tanks' tanks before starting them.

I was in Xian China in a bus that a driver did this to, to get us going again.

[Hymie]

Not sure if the 3.0 litre is more sensitive to the cold to a 2.7litre but we camped at Howitt Plain in early December and a 2.7 litre D3 started first go in the morning after a very cold night but my 3.0l took half an hour to start using the glow plugs. We both had similar volumes of fuel in our tanks. Neither of us had alpine diesel (didn't think it necessary in December and it is not readily available at that time of the year). There were 4 other diesels from the dark side with us and all of these started OK although one just got going after having to swap from a part full tank to a full tank.
Cheers

There are a few variables in the equation here.
Was the 3.0 Liter parked facing into the prevailing wind?
Had the sedimenter been drained of water and gunk before the trip? I find that water freezing in the sedimenter gives the most problems here in Oz.
I've been doing snow transport for 7 years now and never used Alpine Diesel,just a good clean fuel system is the key I find.

[drex]

I thought that all of the service stations in snow country switched to Alpine Diesel in the Winter? Don't think it's something that you have to seek out so there's a good chance that you may have used it?


There are a few variables in the equation here.
Was the 3.0 Liter parked facing into the prevailing wind?
Had the sedimenter been drained of water and gunk before the trip? I find that water freezing in the sedimenter gives the most problems here in Oz.
I've been doing snow transport for 7 years now and never used Alpine Diesel,just a good clean fuel system is the key I find.

[Gillie]

Alpine diesel only available in Bright when it starts to get colder. If you filled up somewhere else you can get an additive to throw in the fuel tank.

[101RRS]

I've been doing snow transport for 7 years now and never used Alpine Diesel

Are you sure - most garages within about 250km from alpine regions normally switch to Alpine diesel late April early May and there is nothing to indicate you are filling up with it.

[Hymie]

They might have it at Omeo, that would be the only place in Gippsland that does. None of the Servos down our way sell winter diesel, ice beaker addative is available at Repco and Supercheap but we don't use it.

[101RRS]

How do you know - as I said in most areas the switch is automatic and there is no indication you are filling up with it (or indeed if you are not filling up with it).

Up in NSW/ACT - all diesel in the ACT and garages as far north as Goulburn have Alpine fuel.

In the ACT I don't think I have seen the additive being sold at garages.

Garry

[kero]

In winter when filling up the diesel is frother than in summer, the attendants always say its doing that because it's the winter blend.No matter where in NSW,you get the winter blend. Kero

[Summiitt]

I have added as little as 5l of alpine diesel into say 60l of normal fuel and it will de wax it, if you do get stuck out and have no access to winter diesel, pop the bonnet, get some hot water and pour it over your injectors, pump, rail, any part of the fuel system, it may take a fair bit of hot water, but with hot water, cranking and glow plugs, you will get it started, just make sure your batteries are in top condition, fill up on winter diesel whenever you get a chance and try to keep your tank as full as possible to try and limit condensation, and remember to enjoy the snow!

[disco 3 door]

Hi All,
BP Mansfield has Alpine mix. Thier is a few additives on the market that cover this problem.
Regards Shane.

[PCH]

Thanks everyone.

I have seen Mt Beauty indicate Alpine Diesel but I'll be filling in Bright before Hotham so will fill it there and expect to get Alpine Diesel. The D4 is only 7 mths old so the battery should be in top condition (you would expect).

9 days of skiing and boarding with my Son should be great fun :cool:. Another dump of snow is coming this weekend too :D

Regards Chris

[Robocop]

I filled up in Jindabyne last week. A sign on the bowser said "alpine diesel now on tap". I can only assume its an additive like 2 stroke when out of the winter season.

Rob

[TerryO]

Up in NSW/ACT - all diesel in the ACT and garages as far north as Goulburn have Alpine fuel.

Garry


Considering Most cold Goulburn winter nights see the barometer down around -5 to -8 which is usually much colder then Canberra chances are that yes we also get alpine diesel. ..:(

There are definitely many much nicer places to live then Goulburn.

Cheers,
Terry

[Yorkie]

http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_internet/australia/corporate_australia/STAGING/local_assets/downloads_pdfs/f/Diesel_cars_Alpine_regions.pdf

there is a good chance the other servos in the areas bp mention are supplying the same fuel. :)

[Dingmark Jim]

Where I grew up in Colorado, the ambient dropped to -60C on occasion (a reason to live in Perth, let me tell you). Even "alpine blend" waxed up in those conditions, as did differential and transmission oil. Large rigs have electrical heat tape wrapped around fuel lines, diffs, and transmissions. Alternately find a garage and park the vehicle in that helped, but still needed heat to start.

With the thankfully warmer cold we get in Oz, I would think that if you found you need to park overnight and don't have alpine blend in the tank, and not circulated throughout the fuel system, then use a trick we used on visitor's trucks, not equipped with heat tape. First, put a 100-150w light or hair drier safely in the engine compartment and turn it on. Close the bonnet, then get one of those fancy aluminium space blankets and put it over the bonnet. That blocks the air circulation so things heat up more. Then cover the bonnet with a large sleeping bag or dooner. Leave overnight. In the morning the engine will be surprisingly warmer than ambient. Just remember to remove the heat light/hair drier and power line before attempting a start.

Ignoring Colorado, Alaska, Siberia and possibly China cold, I found that diesel waxing was only a problem in the fuel lines and water separators, not in the fuel tank. It's where there's a high flow rate in a small line (us engineers call this the sheer stress) where the wax can plug off things.

[Mike_S]

Bit chilly up in Mount Buller today, but not as bad as it's been in before

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/295227_444067165617666_1726328642_n.jpg

:cool:

[Dougal]

Ignoring Colorado, Alaska, Siberia and possibly China cold, I found that diesel waxing was only a problem in the fuel lines and water separators, not in the fuel tank.

Fuel filters are a #1 culprit too.

24 hour average temp of a little below -5C here. But fuel isn't having any issues. If there was any summer diesel left I would have found it by now.:angel:

[haydent]

I just got back from Falls Creek, staying off mountain in Mt Beauty. I filled up in Albury and added this product
Winter Fuel Formula - Genuine Flashlube™ fuel additives Synthetic lubricants for the automotive industry (https://www.flashlube.com/products/winter-fuel-formula) states
"Treat rate 100ml per 50 litres"

I added appx 200ml for 75L tank in L320 TDV8

Drove down to Mt Beauty caravan part, unhooked and did an afternoon trip to falls and back, about 170km

7am next morning after a cold negative degree night the car stalled after a couple of seconds and wouldnt start again, even the caravan diesel heater stalled and wouldnt run (no additive)

Let it rest after trying a bit, not wanting to flatten the battery. Eventually got it running and started driving, and it was a bit rough and was throwing error lights, so went to servo and topped up 3/4 tank to full with the "special diesel" they sell at Beauty. Cleared the errors (fuel pressure/pump related) and got on my way.

For the next 4 days there it started fine, though there was a couple up mornings over the next week, even at that stage in canberra, where it stalled again, and used the bleed valve on the top of engine to help get it going. Now in warmer climate its fine.

Just getting the link for this post i noticed for first time on the website it does say:
"Double treat rate on first usage to increase maximum lubrication coverage"
Maybe this would have prevented the problem, but im inclined to not use the product again, and just use it up in the diesel heater which worked ok on it.

[Tins]

Spent years driving bus/coach to the snow. We used to get alpine diesel delivered to the depot for the big stuff, but for cars and the mini buses we always used to run the tank low and fill up at Mansfield or Bright, to ensure tank was at least 75% alpine. It's a very real thing, and I would always advise people do the same. I would also advise asking the servo if theirs is. I doubt if any of them don't have it, but it pays to be sure.

It's not usually an issue for a day trip, but overnight it's a killer. And you never know if you might get stuck. Whatever the ARC is called these days can close the roads without notice. OK, that won't happen at Mt Beauty, but go a little further to Falls and it can. And yes, Mt Beauty can get cold enough to affect your diesel.

I wouldn't give you two bob for those additives. Buy alpine diesel and don't worry for the time you are there.

[V8Ian]

I've never needed alpine fuel. Before you say it, John, I often used to park overnight in Eromanga at -4⁰, waiting to load 50,000 litres of additive for Melbourne.

[101RRS]

I am surprised the fuel at Albury was not "winterised". Most areas within driving distance change to "winterised" at the start of the season - no need to buy special fuel.

Garry