DC100,from LRO

[bob10]

From LRO.,by Mark Saville.
" make no mistake, the DC100 I drove in the French alps is very much a concept vehicle. It's a genuine lash-up. Only the drivers door opens & the automatic gearbox selector has to be operated by a LR experience yanking on a length of wire.Beneath the curvy exterior is is a modified RR sport supercharged floorpan & running gear. " He goes on , but the point of the article is that the new defender is not set in stone, according to JLR. However, 21st century technology that is earmarked for the new defender turns me off it.For example;

ADVANCED TERRAIN RESPONSE
automatically and instantly picks the best setting,using a patented ' conditional probability matrix'

feed forward technology
using hd cameras, the matrix will able to predict what's about to happen and be ready to react when the obstacle is reached

Terrain eye
3D mapping to see the obstacles & prepare the vehicles for it or suggest an alternative route

wade Aid
sensors monitor water depth, , even coping with bow waves. It may be possible to advise the driver on correct speed to create the perfect bow wave. linked to air suspension to raise vehicle in deeper water.

STUDDED TYRES
Tyres with studs that automatically raise & lower, using the pressure within the tyre to activate them.

Self inflating tyres
using sidewalls to ' pump air into them

Airless wheels
to replace the tyre and the majority of the rim with composite material.

They can't be serious. land Rover is turning to the DARK SIDE, more bling than substance, they seem to be not developing a drivers vehicle, but one for the yuppies . [guess that's where the money is] Not for me. Bob

[PAT303]

It'll never happen,LR aren't stupid and niether is TATA. Pat

[Tombie]

Thats why its a concept :cool:

Pushing the envelope is the relm of concept vehicles...

And the real vehicle will only come with enough to hit its target audience... Only to have small step changes / features added to prolong model life..

And engineer / designer I knew who worked at Mitsubishi and then Holden once told me...

"We dont have to design or make the best vehicle we can. It only has to be 'just' better than the others at the time."

[Barefoot Dave]

As stated above. Don't expect to see those features anytime soon. The first four are probably 5 years away. The tyre tech, closer to 10 before civvy consumers see them.
ATR isn't a great leap forward from the curent system anyway, just some feedback loops from the wheelspeed sensors to alter maps if the setting is not having the desired response

Dave.

[Dougal]

None of those are of any practical use. TBH they sound like something made up over a few too many cocktails by people who have never driven off tarmac.

[MR LR]

Ther's no way a computer can predict conditions offroad and set up a vehicle accordingly, not even a very experienced 4wder can, but they can react a hell of a lot quicker than a computer can, eg. to through the CDL in when the poo hits the fan.

And the wading thing is stupid, how will it know what the base of the river/stram is going to be like, could be 6 feet of mud. Only way to know is still to get out and walk it.

The DC100 is a gimmick.

Cheers
Will

[Dougal]

What I want to know is "how do they get tyres made for 1-off concept vehicles like the DC100?"

[MR LR]

They get re-treads, then someone with a grooving iron makes the pretty pattern, i would assume :)

[weeds]

Thats why its a concept :cool:

Pushing the envelope is the relm of concept vehicles...

And the real vehicle will only come with enough to hit its target audience... Only to have small step changes / features added to prolong model life..

And engineer / designer I knew who worked at Mitsubishi and then Holden once told me...

"We dont have to design or make the best vehicle we can. It only has to be 'just' better than the others at the time."

i reckon you have nailed it.....

if the report is spot on than good on them for pushing the envelope

[timbo]

They need to start assuming that people in the market for a Defender already have the know how to drive offroad, or at least, don't want to be babied through it.

The Defender is basic, utilitarian, easy to keep running and work on, and easy to modify in whichever particular way suits your needs. These new concepts fit none of these requirements.

[MR LR]

I know it will open another kettle of fish, and a debate.

But i think a PUMA has lost a few of these features, i think the td5 was the last proper 'Defender' that you didn't need a dealer/repairer to keep going. And could be modified more simply.

But in saying that this concept pushes the envelope too far. At least the PUMA is still Defender-ish (it doesn't have vents...)

[Slunnie]

They need to start assuming that people in the market for a Defender already have the know how to drive offroad, or at least, don't want to be babied through it.

The Defender is basic, utilitarian, easy to keep running and work on, and easy to modify in whichever particular way suits your needs. These new concepts fit none of these requirements.
Why would they care, especially when the Defender only sells a handful of units per month. What they care about is volume selling - the target market for a DC100 isn't a Defender driver - they want young people, without beards! :D

[Davo]

. . . oh God, not this debate again . . .

[dandlandyman]

So where are the DC100 ute, dual-cab and cab-chassis concepts??? Not much of a Defender without that range...

Dan.
69 2A 88" pet4 (still in disguise), 68 2B FC pet6 (for sale), 73 3 109 pet4 (new project), plus 12 other parts cars.

[Ivan]

If you think about it Landrover have been at the forefront of offroad driving/offroad vehicles all it's life. They were the first to introduce permanant 4WD with coil springs (Range rover). Air suspension (P38A), ACE (D2), terrain response (D3) and a host of other stuff. I say good on Landrover for continuing to push the envelope.
Let's not forget it is only a concept vehicle.

Ivan

[digger]

From LRO.,by Mark Saville.
<<<<snip>>>>
STUDDED TYRES
Tyres with studs that automatically raise & lower, using the pressure within the tyre to activate them.

Self inflating tyres
using sidewalls to ' pump air into them

Airless wheels
to replace the tyre and the majority of the rim with composite material.
<<<<snip>>>> Bob

so which is it?

tyres that self inflate raise and lower
or
airless tyres (I note is says wheel not tyre...)

[digger]

. . . oh God, not this debate again . . .

Has someone mentioned this DC100 concept before??:angel:

Maybe we could have a discussion about it being an alleged replacement for the Defender? :p

surely that hasn't been covered anywhere on the net...:D

[Davo]

Yes, apparently there simply isn't a market for solid workhorses anymore so Land Rover must aim at hairdresser lifestyle farmer plastic bumperites instead. I pity Toyota, still making those silly traybacks that nobody buys. Now that Land Rover is heading this way, it must be only a matter of time before they rise to the top of the 4WD market while Toyota simply goes bankrupt and is forgotten forever.

[weeds]

Yes, apparently there simply isn't a market for solid workhorses anymore so Land Rover must aim at hairdresser lifestyle farmer plastic bumperites instead. I pity Toyota, still making those silly traybacks that nobody buys. Now that Land Rover is heading this way, it must be only a matter of time before they rise to the top of the 4WD market while Toyota simply goes bankrupt and is forgotten forever.

geez i dunno, i dont see to many land rover tray bocks getting around but see a **** load of silly traybacks that nobody buys i.e toyota, nissans, mazda and the list goes on.........i think land rover has finally pulled its head out of the sand and moving with the times

i drive an old defender because thats what it suit me as a second car......if i was able to upgrade today i am not sure i would invest in the land rover workhorse

[Tombie]

Yes, apparently there simply isn't a market for solid workhorses anymore so Land Rover must aim at hairdresser lifestyle farmer plastic bumperites instead. I pity Toyota, still making those silly traybacks that nobody buys. Now that Land Rover is heading this way, it must be only a matter of time before they rise to the top of the 4WD market while Toyota simply goes bankrupt and is forgotten forever.

Funny that Rio T, BHPB etc are no longer buying those "non complaint" Traybacks you mention..... Nor are they buying non-ancap 5* Hiluxes

[weeds]

Funny that Rio T, BHPB etc are no longer buying those "non complaint" Traybacks you mention..... Nor are they buying non-ancap 5* Hiluxes

better add land rover to that list to i guess

[Davo]

geez i dunno, i dont see to many land rover tray bocks getting around but see a **** load of silly traybacks that nobody buys i.e toyota, nissans, mazda and the list goes on.........i think land rover has finally pulled its head out of the sand and moving with the times

i drive an old defender because thats what it suit me as a second car......if i was able to upgrade today i am not sure i would invest in the land rover workhorse

Er . . . that was me trying to be sarcastic. Government agencies, aboriginal corporations, TAFEs, stations, farms, most of them buy Toyotas and Nissans by the shipload. That's them buying Toyotas and Nissans, not Land Rovers. So, you know, that's money Land Rover doesn't make. For reasons I've never fathomed.

[OffTrack]

Why would they care, especially when the Defender only sells a handful of units per month. What they care about is volume selling - the target market for a DC100 isn't a Defender driver - they want young people, without beards! :D

It's more a case of LR wanting a product that appeals to people who will actually buy their products rather than to those who are driving 10-20 year old cars and spend their time on forums whining about changes to a product they are unlikely to buy in the foreseeable future. :wasntme:

[PAT303]

Good post that one,all new LR's are crap anyway so who cares?. Pat

[Tombie]

Amazingly, when we look at all we need it often varies greatly from what we want or perceive we need.

Those who whack on about the workhorse toughness of a Defender...
So many people who have them never actually use that much of their capability.

Or the Mechano set BS - Yeah.. Righto... I pull mine apart all the time... :p

Its like needing a 3500kg 'Griswold Family Road blocker' or key-less entry because my poor finger cant press a freakin button!

A good current example:
Theres a few forum members doing 'The Cape' at the moment...
One party has a TDCi Defender, another Party a D4... Unsure of the rest..

Both are enjoying themselves immensely, and both are driving exactly the same tracks!!!!! The toughness of the D4 and the little TDCi seems sound... But the D4 will be a lot less dusty inside ;)

So WHAT if this concept vehicle is made of moulded parts... The thin tin plate and aluminium pressed parts of an older version dont make the vehicle any stronger than a composite based vehicle.

NOW.. It is fine if YOU dont like the concepts shape etc... IF or WHEN it becomes a reality then its easy - Just don't purchase one... :)

Me - I currently have a D4, but I've had all the others....
I didnt need all the features my base model TDV6 has but they are nice.

What I did need, was a reliable, safe vehicle for my family with 4wd capability. I like LR and this vehicle fit the bill nicely. I really do love it.

And whilst I'm a LR fan through and through, I don't wear blinkers or fear technology.. I've embraced the technology and learned how to handle it (as well as mechanical failure) - the only difference between 20 years ago and now is my toolbox contains Diagnostic gear!


This whole "Anti Modern Anything" rubbish just wears thin!

If we weren't an overly ridiculous Capitalist, Consumerist society then we wouldn't need so much material stuff..

We wouldn't feel the need (actually a WANT) to continually have the latest consumer wallet emptier.

But modern society want fancy new gadgets, which drives innovation, which LR is at the forefront of in many cases...

So until we as consumers DEMAND rebuild-able, serviceable, reliable products... (But we don't.... We buy cheap disposable stuff...)
And just enjoy what we have, not keep WANTING the latest and greatest...

The you will see these changes and concepts keep coming...

:p:D:):o:D:cool:

[bob10]

But we don't.... We buy cheap disposable stuff...[/B])
And just enjoy what we have, not keep WANTING the latest and greatest...

The you will see these changes and concepts keep coming...

:p:D:):o:D:cool:

Well said, but not so much of the "we ", kemo Sabe. Not everyone can afford the servicing costs for the modern vehicle. A lot of people need a vehicle they can service themselves, without forking out too much on diagnostic tools, and without the need to be an electronics whiz.I must mix in different circles to you, most of my mates don't want the latest & greatest, or cheap disposable stuff, but I guess we come from a generation when machines were rebuildable, servicable & reliable. I for one am not interested in a show pony , give me a work horse any day. Bob

[OffTrack]

Well said, but not so much of the "we ", kemo Sabe. Not everyone can afford the servicing costs for the modern vehicle. A lot of people need a vehicle they can service themselves, without forking out too much on diagnostic tools, and without the need to be an electronics whiz.I must mix in different circles to you, most of my mates don't want the latest & greatest, or cheap disposable stuff, but I guess we come from a generation when machines were rebuildable, servicable & reliable. I for one am not interested in a show pony , give me a work horse any day. Bob

It wasn't that many years ago that the Discovery 2 was considered an unmaintanable show pony. You seem to be doing ok with yours.

[bob10]

It wasn't that many years ago that the Discovery 2 was considered an unmaintanable show pony. You seem to be doing ok with yours.

D2 a showpony? never! I thought only the toyota set spread that rumour. :angel: Have to admit, it is at the edge of my capability, only this forum & the RAVE DVD give me the confidence to work on it. How many D3 & D4 owners do all their own servicing? [ I'll probably be sorry I asked that] Good luck on changing the timing belts on A D3 TDV6 [ I believe the body has to be lifted for the front one]. I know if I have to get rid of the D2, a 300 TDI defender will do me.[ or better still, an Isuzu powered one] Bob

[Tombie]

Well said, but not so much of the "we ", kemo Sabe. Not everyone can afford the servicing costs for the modern vehicle. A lot of people need a vehicle they can service themselves, without forking out too much on diagnostic tools, and without the need to be an electronics whiz.I must mix in different circles to you, most of my mates don't want the latest & greatest, or cheap disposable stuff, but I guess we come from a generation when machines were rebuildable, servicable & reliable. I for one am not interested in a show pony , give me a work horse any day. Bob

Bob... Similar circles mate.... No different to when I was back in the Pus!

My comfort with electronics is more a product of being a Birdie Rate... (ATC/ATWL) than anything :cool:

[Tombie]

D2 a showpony? never! I thought only the toyota set spread that rumour. :angel: Have to admit, it is at the edge of my capability, only this forum & the RAVE DVD give me the confidence to work on it. How many D3 & D4 owners do all their own servicing? [ I'll probably be sorry I asked that] Good luck on changing the timing belts on A D3 TDV6 [ I believe the body has to be lifted for the front one]. I know if I have to get rid of the D2, a 300 TDI defender will do me.[ or better still, an Isuzu powered one] Bob

With a comment like that... You must be a Stoker :);):p

[PAT303]

Amazingly, when we look at all we need it often varies greatly from what we want or perceive we need.

Those who whack on about the workhorse toughness of a Defender...
So many people who have them never actually use that much of their capability.

Or the Mechano set BS - Yeah.. Righto... I pull mine apart all the time... :p

Its like needing a 3500kg 'Griswold Family Road blocker' or key-less entry because my poor finger cant press a freakin button!

A good current example:
Theres a few forum members doing 'The Cape' at the moment...
One party has a TDCi Defender, another Party a D4... Unsure of the rest..

Both are enjoying themselves immensely, and both are driving exactly the same tracks!!!!! The toughness of the D4 and the little TDCi seems sound... But the D4 will be a lot less dusty inside ;)

So WHAT if this concept vehicle is made of moulded parts... The thin tin plate and aluminium pressed parts of an older version dont make the vehicle any stronger than a composite based vehicle.

NOW.. It is fine if YOU dont like the concepts shape etc... IF or WHEN it becomes a reality then its easy - Just don't purchase one... :)

Me - I currently have a D4, but I've had all the others....
I didnt need all the features my base model TDV6 has but they are nice.

What I did need, was a reliable, safe vehicle for my family with 4wd capability. I like LR and this vehicle fit the bill nicely. I really do love it.

And whilst I'm a LR fan through and through, I don't wear blinkers or fear technology.. I've embraced the technology and learned how to handle it (as well as mechanical failure) - the only difference between 20 years ago and now is my toolbox contains Diagnostic gear!


This whole "Anti Modern Anything" rubbish just wears thin!

If we weren't an overly ridiculous Capitalist, Consumerist society then we wouldn't need so much material stuff..

We wouldn't feel the need (actually a WANT) to continually have the latest consumer wallet emptier.

But modern society want fancy new gadgets, which drives innovation, which LR is at the forefront of in many cases...

So until we as consumers DEMAND rebuild-able, serviceable, reliable products... (But we don't.... We buy cheap disposable stuff...)
And just enjoy what we have, not keep WANTING the latest and greatest...

The you will see these changes and concepts keep coming...

:p:D:):o:D:cool:

Your too smart to be on this 4wd actio/overlande/explor/errr what forum are we on?,hang on,this is AULRO,the forum for smart people who don't carry on with ''my mate said'' rubbish :eek:. Pat

[scarry]

It wasn't that many years ago that the Discovery 2 was considered an unmaintanable show pony. You seem to be doing ok with yours.

When i bought one of the first D2's in 1999,everyone said it was full of electronic crap that would play up etc,etc.After having three D2's,all bought new,and 13 years later,and many trips in remote area's,etc,etc,never had a failure at all!

I lift the bonnet,or crawl under the D4 & have a look at things & think what the hell have i got myself into here.

[PAT303]

When i bought one of the first D2's in 1999,everyone said it was full of electronic crap that would play up etc,etc.After having three D2's,all bought new,and 13 years later,and many trips in remote area's,etc,etc,never had a failure at all!

I lift the bonnet,or crawl under the D4 & have a look at things & think what the hell have i got myself into here.

I'm the same,the last 5 years travelling has been in electronic vehicles and I've never had a problem,silly thing is the people who carry one about how unreliable they are haven't left the cities. Pat

[bob10]

When i bought one of the first D2's in 1999,everyone said it was full of electronic crap that would play up etc,etc.After having three D2's,all bought new,and 13 years later.

With 3 D2's in 13 years, what km,s did you get to before trading up? Not everyone can afford, or want , to trade up every 4 or five years. I'll stand corrected if I'm wrong, but the D3 has a timing belt change as part of its maintainence routines at 7 years or 105,000 miles, with 2 belts , one front , one back, and I'm led to believe changing the front one is very expensive. So, is the go trade up the D3 every 5 or 6 years to pass the cost on to someone else. I don't mean to be pedantic, [ but I probably am ] but I ask the question, how many D3 & D4 owners do most of their own servicing, and has anyone calculated the cost of dealer servicing over the life of the vehicles ? At $100 / hour, in Brisbane, [ god knows how much in remote areas, even if you could find a LR dealer/ mechanic] it all adds up. Having said that, I'm happy now with my 1999 D2, with 349,000 km's on it, but only because I've taken the time to try to understand the workings of the vehicle, have a diagnostic machine, have the RAVE DVD, and the AULRO website. I also carry, apart from the usual hoses etc all vehicles should carry, some of the engine management bits & pieces that are showstoppers [ main & fuel pump relays, Crank position gizmos] just for peace of mind. Never had to use one yet, but wouldn't go without them. Now with the new defender looking like it is catering for the yuppie set, a 300 TDI or Isuzu defender looks even better. rant over, I'm out of breath :D Bob