Led light bar

[Canaussie]

Hey fellow forum peeps,

Has anyone on here have or installed a led light bar. Thinking of going this option instead of spotties. Arb delux bullbar here next month and I think it might look good and give of good light.

Cheers billy

[Owl]

Led light bars are definately the way to go - quantum leap forward from even HID's for all applications with the possible exception of picking out the eyes of the kangaroo 1Km up the road. Most things I do around here I don't see a straight section of road anywhere near 1 Km. And besides - the kangaroo you are about to hit is the one that jumps out at you 20m away!! And with these lights you are much more likely to see it.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/1249.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/app/showphoto.php/photo/19683/title/rimg0001/cat/1128)


PS - don't ask about the snorkle

[irondoc]

What happened to the snorkel?

[dswatts]

Yes, what happened to the snorkel?

[discotwinturbo]

What happened to the ram on your snorkel ?

Brett....

[discotwinturbo]

I am very happy with my light bar....bloody hell it's bright.

Brett....

[trobbo]

hey, it looks like you have lost the top of your snorkel - what happened?

[goingbush]

hey, did you hit a Kangaroo & take your snorkel out.

I bought one after reading a bit about them on pirate4x4
china led lights on the cheap (product review) - Pirate4x4.Com (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php't=1052847)

Mine is the 22" 120W $299 ebay LED Light
Just fitted bar to my Defender today, - need I say AWESOME . I always hated driving lights but the LED bar is fantastic .

[Robocop]

Farout!! Maybe I'll have to climb out of the cave I've been in.. This is the first I've heard of these LED light bars. I've heard of the cycling type but they're batt powered..

[Scouse]

There's a group buy on here at the moment.......

[Robocop]

Ok no worries.. I'm interested.. Is it for a single bar or two bars? Who do I speak to?

TA Rob

[Tombie]

Led light bars are definately the way to go - quantum leap forward from even HID's for all applications with the possible exception of picking out the eyes of the kangaroo 1Km up the road. Most things I do around here I don't see a straight section of road anywhere near 1 Km. And besides - the kangaroo you are about to hit is the one that jumps out at you 20m away!! And with these lights you are much more likely to see it.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/1249.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/app/showphoto.php/photo/19683/title/rimg0001/cat/1128)


PS - don't ask about the snorkle

Your set up is spot on mate :cool:

Spotties on the nose (as mentioned, on fast tracks / roads out of town its a necessary function) and a LED light bar is the absolute pinnacle of a set-up...

HIDs are over rated...

LED light bars for the use as said above provide a good flood of light in the surrounding vicinity of the vehicle....

But - What's up with the Snorkel?

[BigJon]

HIDs are over rated...


I can't agree with you there. Good quality driving lights with HID conversions are very good, much better than halogen bulbs with the added bonus of lower current draw.

[Fatso]

[bigwhistle][bigwhistle]


"What happened to the snorkle" ???? :wasntme:

[peterall]

Yeah....."What happened to the snorkle" ????

[Canaussie]

Said don't ask....lol

[Owl]

OK, ok already..... You guys are persistant.
It got a little too close to a tree.

It was the only photo I could find in a hurry that showed the LED Bar. Besides, with the top on the snorkle, it would have blocked a clear view of it!!

On a more serious note, driving with these lights at night is increadible. It's almost like driving in daylight. I can drive all night. There's no hot spot that focusus my vision - there's an even spread of light to the sides, up and forward. Fatigue is reduced markedly.

Ian

[discotwinturbo]

That will teach you for chasing the kangaroo into the bush.....the roo had the last laugh it seems. lol

I agree....the light bar makes driving so much easier than my light force hids on my previous ride.

Brett....

[DiscoWeb]

With no front bar and not wanting to have a roof rack permanently mounted would it be possible to fit and brace these across the top of the front plastic bumper in a D3/D4 ?

I assume due to the shape and fact it is one unit there would be much less vibration force compared to fitting spotties ?

Anyone tried this ?

George

[EchiDna]

ok I'll bite - how is your night vision when you inevitably have to "dip" your high beams to the regular beam? or do you only use the LED's off road?

[Owl]

ok I'll bite - how is your night vision when you inevitably have to "dip" your high beams to the regular beam? or do you only use the LED's off road?

I generally only use it off road. However, on the odd occasion I have used them where there is a requirement to 'dip', it was a bit of a problem, but not as bad ai I thought it would be. I'm guessing it's something to do with the fact that now I need to concentrate more on the 'on-comming' traffic that the loss of side / overhead illumination is not noticed as much as it would otherwise be. Besides, the dipped D3 lights are pretty good (maybe too good) anyway.

Ian

[33chinacars]

Hi George have a look at this It might help

Driving Light Number Plate Mounting Bracket (http://www.greatwhites.com.au/index.php/accessories/item/8-driving-light-number-plate-mounting-bracket)

Gary

[oldsalt]

Hi guys - just thought you may be interested in an experience that I had yesterday - I was coming out of Bairnsdale (headed back to Melb) and got flagged down into the weigh bridge area by a VicRoads guy and then they checked my vehicle over - had a few other 4WDs & trucks there as well - the VicRoads guy said they are having a blitz on 4WDs with oversize tyres and lights mounted on roof-racks etc etc - and they had a very good look at my bull bar :confused:... mine was O.K. and I was able to continue with my journey but a young guy with giant "muddies" on his Toyota was in deep discussion with the "officials" and I don't think he was having a very good day:(..... it would appear "we" are in their sights !!! :eek:

[Dingmark Jim]

Can anyone illuminate:p us on the regulations on driving lights as to how they apply to LED light bars? AFAIK the regs for road use allow only for extra 2 driving lights which have a max height limit (ie, cannot be on the roof for use on the road). Under these regs LED lights might be illegal for road use even if on the front bar, as there's more than two lights. Of course, the "cat whisker" LEDs that come with our vehicles are multiple LEDs, so there may be some allowance for LEDs. A big LED light bar would be about as effective a means of blinding an oncoming driver as can be imagined, so even if legal, we need to be careful.

[CaverD3]

I think the driving lights need to be below the drivers eye level. You need to be able to see the other vehicles lights before they see yours. If above your line of site you could be blinding an oncoming vehicle without knowing it.

[gghaggis]

So how did Jeep get away with ADR compliance on the Cherokee models that had driving lights built into the roof? Seems at odds with the general consensus? Or is an additional isolation switch considered sufficient?

Cheers,

Gordon

[CaverD3]

You are allowed them but for off road use only I think.
So not illegal to fit but illegal to use on road.

[mervwho]

No higher than the existing headlights, must have a separate 'kill" switch and only white to front. Anything else higher, off road only. Use them on road and get caught, suffer the consequences and it is similar penalties for those people who insist on using their fog lamps along with headlights. I would have loved a dollar for everyone I booked many years ago for that one.:nazilock:

[101RRS]

No higher than the existing headlights, must have a separate 'kill" switch and only white to front. Anything else higher, off road only. Use them on road and get caught, suffer the consequences and it is similar penalties for those people who insist on using their fog lamps along with headlights. I would have loved a dollar for everyone I booked many years ago for that one.:nazilock:

I don't believe so (height aspect) - I can recall somewhere that they can be legal but have heavy restrictions ie - no other lights but cannot remember the details but can be use on road.

As Gordon mentioned above there is an earlier version of the Jeep Cherokee that has them on the roof as standard. Also I believe Mike_S had no issues getting his RRS G4 registered in Vic after being just imported from the UK with lights on the roof rack.

Garry

[Scouse]

The locally put together Tomb Raider edition of the Defender also had them as standard.

[SWH]

Maybe have a look at: (as at 2006) best I can find at present.

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/5f455e92-481a-4cab-9636-7fe3e2cd2813/vsig10auxiliarydrivinglampsfittedtomot (http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/%7E/media/5f455e92-481a-4cab-9636-7fe3e2cd2813/vsig10auxiliarydrivinglampsfittedtomot).

ADRs supposed to be Australia wide but the Politicians can't help themselves, so other States may be different. But just a chance every State is the same.

So the regs relating to Driving lamps are:
• Two additional pairs of driving lamps may be fitted to a motor
vehicle.
• The driving lamps must be mounted symmetrically on the vehicle.
• The light emitted must not cause the driver discomfort either
directly or indirectly through the rear view mirror and/or other
reflecting surfaces of the motor vehicle.
• Driving lamps must not be placed wider than the dipped beam
headlamps.
• The colour of light emitted from driving lamps must be white.
• Additional driving lamps must only operate in conjunction with the
high beam circuit and must be fitted with an independent on/off
switch.
• There is no individual height specification for the fitting of driving
lamps.
and A driver must not use, or allow to be used, any light fitted to or in the driver’s vehicle to dazzle, or in a way that is likely to dazzle, another road
user.

[CaverD3]

and A driver must not use, or allow to be used, any light fitted to or in the driver’s vehicle to dazzle, or in a way that is likely to dazzle, another road user.

High level ones could be done under this one?

If you have driving lights on the rof be careful when you use them.

[goingbush]

Heres a video from my dash cam, on a wet night.
you can see the dif btwn low & High, then LED bar on
and when dipping back to low for a oncoming car at the end.

Im usually driving blind in the wet at night, Like I said before I hate driving lights but these LED light bars are just great.

The difference is a lot more noticeable in real life because the camera auto iris compensates, so brightens the low beam and dims the LED.
I'll try some stills tonight with my handheld digital camera set on manual

22" led light bar - YouTube

http://www.goingbush.com/landy/ledbar1.jpg

[mervwho]

The locally put together Tomb Raider edition of the Defender also had them as standard.

Just because they are fitted doesn't make them legal to be used. A classic example of this this some years ago was in relation to radar detectors. You you buy them and fit them but get caught using them and .........same thing with lights and this topic has been discussed for more than thirty years since I had to attend the Vehicle and Safety Training School with Vic Pol Traffic Operations and nothing has changed.

[gghaggis]

Just because they are fitted doesn't make them legal to be used. A classic example of this this some years ago was in relation to radar detectors. You you buy them and fit them but get caught using them and .........same thing with lights and this topic has been discussed for more than thirty years since I had to attend the Vehicle and Safety Training School with Vic Pol Traffic Operations and nothing has changed.

But your experience is specific to Victoria - as SWH posted above, it doesn't _technically_ seem to be illegal to and and use (within guidelines) in Qld, and other states may be quite different too. As per radar detectors - still legal in WA!

Cheers,

Gordon

[goingbush]

Photos taken at f3.3 1/4sec hand held

Gate is 50m , White Horizontal fence rails other side of road 80m

22" 120W LED light bar

LOW BEAM
http://www.goingbush.com/landy/low.jpg

HIGH BEAM
http://www.goingbush.com/landy/high.jpg

HIGH BEAM + LED
http://www.goingbush.com/landy/high+led.jpg

[SWH]

In New South Wales the following may apply, the regulations are extensive and I cannot find any clear statement.

So the Road Transport (Vehicle Registration) Regulation 2007 appears to apply in NSW.

1. There is no definition of headlights.
2. "high-beam", in relation to a headlight or front fog light fitted to a vehicle (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rtrr2007478/s88a.html#vehicle), means that the light is built or adjusted so that when the vehicle (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rtrr2007478/s88a.html#vehicle) is standing on level ground, the top of the main beam of light projected is above the low-beam position.
3. Part 5 of Schedule 2 to the Regulations appears to cover Lights and Reflectors.
4. Reg 84 says a light, except a high beam headlight, must not dazzle the driver of another vehicle;
5. Reg 86 (5) says “Additional pairs of headlights may be fitted to a motor vehicle with 4 wheels built after 1969;
6. Reg 89 says if 2 or more additional headlights are fitted to a motor vehicle with 4 or more wheels, the additional headlights must as far as possible be fitted in pairs;
7. Reg 90 is to the effect that additional headlights must be white and project its main beam ahead of the vehicle and must not reflect off the vehicle into the drivers eyes;
8. Reg 92 in effect means additional headlights must not operate when low beam is on and must have a dipping device to change from high beam to low beam;
9. Cannot see anything about not mounting on roof rack;
10. However other Regs say can’t have anything protruding from in front of the front bumper bar (not got reference for that).


Of course everybody should do their own checking.



So mostly this appears consistent with QLD.

[CJT]

I believe you are fine with a pair of spot lights or a centre mounted LED bar.

I have not been able to find this in writing though.

[isuzurover]

I looked into this in detail a while back.

There are a few grey areas.
LED Light bars could be classified as either a single light, or a bunch of small lights.
Either way, that is not on, as all states I am aware of stipulate that lights must be fitted in pairs, and a maximum of 2(?) additional pairs are allowed.

However - as for the mounting height, most states do not stipulate a height, and indeed, many cabover trucks come with roof mounted lights from the factory.

The only issue is that most states say that headlights must be mounted at the FRONT of a vehicle. It is unclear whether the roof on a bonetted vehicle classifies as the front.

I suspect the rules will be clarified eventually wrt light bars. I tried to get a ruling from the WA transport engineers over the phone, but they said I would need to send a written submission... (which they will take months to process)...

[BigJon]

The only issue is that most states say that headlights must be mounted at the FRONT of a vehicle. It is unclear whether the roof on a bonetted vehicle classifies as the front.



I think logic dictates that the roof of a bonneted vehicle can't possibly be the front.

[oldsalt]

This has turned into a most interesting thread, and as to the "front" of a vehicle ... I had a series of VW kombis over many years and their roof was about 6 inches from the "front" of the vehicle due to its very flat "nose" .... makes you wonder ????
I had been thinking about getting a set of LEDs for my D3 but now I'm not to sure..... :(

[isuzurover]

From an earlier (2010) thread on light bars:


Today I spoke to Modifications Branch of Qld. Transport. Although these lights are not specifically mentioned in either the legislation or the Transport Operations Road User Manual, it appears they are now permitted. Must be mounted symetrically in pairs; centres no closer than 600mm; not to exceed the vehicular maximum height of 4.3 metres; wired and switched through the high beam circuit with a master switch in the circuit as well. Usage in accordance with the regulations pertaining to high beam headlights, not to be used within 200 metres of another vehicle, not to be used when stationary, not to interfere with the safe operation of any other vehicle, not to dazzle or annoy the driver of any other vehicle.

The requirement of minimum 600mm centres and symmetric pairs means that most vehicles other than heavy trucks would be restricted to two overhead lamps there not being room for more without overhanging the side of the roof.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-1/109428-roof-spotlights-qld.html

[SWH]

Members,

My reading of the relevant Regulations for NSW, at this site:

ROAD TRANSPORT (VEHICLE REGISTRATION) REGULATION 2007 - SCHEDULE 2 (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rtrr2007478/sch2.html)

says nothing about the front of the vehicle. Reg 90 says:

90 Performance of headlights

(1) When on, a headlight, or additional headlight, fitted to a vehicle (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rtrr2007478/s88a.html#vehicle) must:
(a) show only white light, and
(b) project its main beam of light ahead of the vehicle (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rtrr2007478/s88a.html#vehicle).
(2) Headlights must be fitted to a vehicle (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rtrr2007478/s88a.html#vehicle) so their light does not reflect off the vehicle (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rtrr2007478/s88a.html#vehicle) into the driver’s eyes.


The 600 mm issue I believe relates to the low beam (Reg 87) NSW or possibly fog lights see QLD paper previously posted.

There are other regulations about spot lights, but that is a different issue.

The issue about the "front" is only that nothing can be located so it protrudes beyond the front of the vehicle. Of course many driving lights when fitted do offend. If on the roof, obviously will not at least against that requirement.

True there are other issues but generally it appears that LED lights on the roof rack that face forward and do not shine in the eyes of the driver of that car and are turned off when low beam is on, are OK even if one single light bar (but don't quote me).

Of course the NSW Roads and Maritime Services (as it now is) could clear this up with a document on their web site, but I can't find it, so appears we are left to reading the regulations.

[CaverD3]

Paranoid?

If you have fitted them and they don't like it you will get a defect notice.

NSW police and RMS are loking for lowered cars with tinted windows and loud exhausts.

[discotwinturbo]

I just popped into the Kelmscott WA licensing centre and had them check out my bar mounted led light bar.
They had no issue with it. They asked did I have a separate switch and would it only light up on the high beam switch. They got me to flick them on.....the big fellow said "gee there bright", and then said have a good day.
Brett.....

[isuzurover]

Members,

My reading of the relevant Regulations for NSW, at this site:

ROAD TRANSPORT (VEHICLE REGISTRATION) REGULATION 2007 - SCHEDULE 2 (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rtrr2007478/sch2.html)

says nothing about the front of the vehicle. Reg 90 says:

90 Performance of headlights

(1) When on, a headlight, or additional headlight, fitted to a vehicle (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rtrr2007478/s88a.html#vehicle) must:
(a) show only white light, and
(b) project its main beam of light ahead of the vehicle (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rtrr2007478/s88a.html#vehicle).
(2) Headlights must be fitted to a vehicle (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rtrr2007478/s88a.html#vehicle) so their light does not reflect off the vehicle (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rtrr2007478/s88a.html#vehicle) into the driver’s eyes.


The 600 mm issue I believe relates to the low beam (Reg 87) NSW or possibly fog lights see QLD paper previously posted.

There are other regulations about spot lights, but that is a different issue.

The issue about the "front" is only that nothing can be located so it protrudes beyond the front of the vehicle. Of course many driving lights when fitted do offend. If on the roof, obviously will not at least against that requirement.

True there are other issues but generally it appears that LED lights on the roof rack that face forward and do not shine in the eyes of the driver of that car and are turned off when low beam is on, are OK even if one single light bar (but don't quote me).

Of course the NSW Roads and Maritime Services (as it now is) could clear this up with a document on their web site, but I can't find it, so appears we are left to reading the regulations.


This has all been done to death before:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/132545-driving-lights.html

From the docs linked in that thread:



Two additional pairs may be fitted. These lamps need not comply with ADR 46.
The mandatory and optional lamps maybe concealable when not in use and be
equipped with devices to maintain alignment.
Prohibited
On trailers.
3. Position
Pairs of lamps shall be fitted symmetrically (same position on both sides of vehicle).
The light emitted shall not cause the driver discomfort either directly or indirectly
through the rear view mirror and/or other reflecting surfaces of the vehicle.
When there are two pairs of headlamps, one pair which function as main-beam
headlamps only may swivel according to the angle of lock of the steering about a
substantially vertical surface.
3.1 Width:
Main beam headlamps must not be placed wider than the dipped beam headlamps.
3.2 Height:
No individual specifications.
3.3 Length:
At the front of the vehicle and facing forward.

[CaverD3]

I just popped into the Kelmscott WA licensing centre and had them check out my bar mounted led light bar.
They had no issue with it. They asked did I have a separate switch and would it only light up on the high beam switch. They got me to flick them on.....the big fellow said "gee there bright", and then said have a good day.
Brett.....

Reality. :BigThumb:

[scarry]

Paranoid?

If you have fitted them and they don't like it you will get a defect notice.

NSW police and RMS are loking for lowered cars .

Does that mean i have to drive around at off road height?:confused:

[Robocop]

Paranoid?

If you have fitted them and they don't like it you will get a defect notice.

NSW police and RMS are loking for lowered cars with tinted windows and loud exhausts.

Do they? Are they really?

[seano87]

Do they? Are they really?

Probably just like they are currently targeting P platers in cars with louder than stock exhausts... well according to my green P-plate neighbour anyway.

I kinda pointed out maybe it was more that someone pulled out in front of a cop, fishtailing it down the street being a dickhead rather than because he's a p-plater in a ute with exhaust.

Just like the time before it might have been the flogging the nuts of it at about 120km/h at night in a residential street.

Admittedly, got a warning both times. Both times also pulled over right in front of the house with parents watching the spectacle.

Point is, in the scheme of things, cops probably couldn't give a **** about where your light bars are as long as they're not being used inappropriately. They've got better things to deal with?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[Robocop]

You could just be right Seano...

[CaverD3]

Yes. :angel:
The anti hoon policy. Remember VSI 50 aimed at hoons with lowered cars but would have caught out off road mods?

[goingbush]

Paranoid?

If you have fitted them and they don't like it you will get a defect notice.

NSW police and RMS are loking for lowered cars with tinted windows and loud exhausts.

Uh Oh
This guy will be in trouble

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/1035.jpg

[Debacle]

The death penalty would be appropriate for that one.

[Robocop]

Lol you've reminded me of my nightmare engineering report on my 1st 4x4.

[Tombie]

I can't agree with you there. Good quality driving lights with HID conversions are very good, much better than halogen bulbs with the added bonus of lower current draw.

Jon - I'll provide more detail later if you wish.

Proof is available that contradicts that statement ;)


Good quality driving lights... With HID inserts are very good.. ..OK...

Great quality driving lights are exceptional... ;)


Now I ask you this question...

Lower Current draw matters why?

Lets see what the consensus is on the above statement...

AND, keep in mind, what mattered to a vehicle with a 50A alternator from years gone buy is a little different to ones now running up to 200A (depending on make and model).

People entering this part of the discussion - please include...

1) How many lights you run
2) Type and Wattage

cheers

[NavyDiver]

Fog & driving lights : VicRoads (http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/SafetyAndRules/SaferVehicles/VehicleDesignStandardsAndAccessories/FogAndDrivingLights.htm)

Doesn't seem to say anything much about the hight of the lights or cover LED, HID or other types. I have a great LED light bar ontop as well. I do not use the LED bar on road as I find the HID are more than enough.

There is NO way my LED bar on my roof rack and Highbeam HID lights would be on at probebly twice the 200 metre rule. The oncoming driver would be blinded or have significant vision loss with any D3 or D4 HID highbeam at 200m; With a closing speed of 200 kph a blinded driver coming past us a few seconds after dipping our lights at the VIC regulations of 200metres sounds dangerous to me.

[BigJon]

J

Lower Current draw matters why?



To lower the load on the alternator. Pretty simple.

[Tombie]

To lower the load on the alternator. Pretty simple.

Again I will ask... Why?

Its a device capable of providing rated output.

Whats your reasoning for molly-coddeling an alternator?:D

[BigJon]

In the past I have had alternators not capable of keeping up with the electrical load, requireing replacement with higher rated units.

Secondly, just because it is rated at a certain output doesn't mean you should run it at 100% output. Doing so is certain to shorten it's service life.

[bee utey]

Demanding continuous high currents from your alternator reduces life of brushes, diodes and regulators (heat and high current damage). Alternators aren't cheap.

[Tombie]

Correct... BUT... And here is the BUT...

Modern vehicles have 120Amp minimum alternators.. Later still have over 150Amp alternators...

Running at 75% wont hurt these beasts... After all, when winching the poor buggers are flat out :cool:

I've never killed an alternator from aux lighting requirements... :D

Now...

Jon, I know you ran 4 aux lights on your Rangie... 4x100w minimum and the alternator ran fine...

Thats 33.33a @ 12.0v or around 29.9a @ charging voltage...

A pair of IPF "Filament" lights pulls 130w x 2 = 260w -> 21.67a @ 12v
A pair of Fyrlyts "Xenophot filament" pulls 150w x 2 = 300w -> 25a @ 12v
A pair of 50w input HIDs pulls 100w -> 8.33a @ 12v

A decent improvement it would seem...

But is it? What do you get for your dollar???

Well............ Lets start with HID

35W (input) x 80% efficiency ballast = 28W to lamp x ~85 lumen / watt globe output = 2380 lumen (35x2=70 -> 5.8a @12v)
50W input x 80% ballast efficiency = 40W to lamp x ~85 Lumen / watts (China) = 3400 Lumen(50x2=100 -> 8.33a @12v)
70W input x 80% ballast efficiency = 56W to lamp x ~85 Lumen / watts (China) = 4760 Lumen(70x2=140 -> 11.6a @12v)

This is FACT.... Has been proven and tested :)

Now here's the kicker.... This is when the HID bulb is BRAND NEW...

HID’s will lose 25-30% of their output per watt over the life of the bulb and also a shift in colour rendering.
This occurs rapidly in the first few hours and then continues.
This is why in prestige cars with HIDs in OEM fitments, must be replaced in pairs. (To maintain same intensity / colour)

The Xenophot style globes retain colour rendering and output for the entire life of the bulb...

And due to Osram working closely with Fyrlyt they have produced a bulb with a genuine output of 5000 lumen each bulb...

Also consider reflector design and scatter, focus, glare etc... (HIDs produce noticeable glare), poor cut off etc, and cost (including light units, HID kits and TCO) and you dont get a lot for your money.

Consider that if you go "Branded" HID you pay a premium for such outputs... An uprated (if required) alternator is cheap!!!

A pair of 150w has been running on a mates FJ40 (55amp alternator) for over 2 years now, he's a professional shooter (cull) for the Government and shoots a lot at night. This vehicle has had NO issues... Which confirms older vehicles are well in capability of running such current draw.

A modern alternator barely breaks a sweat :D

What you need (as a driver) is clear, usable light with minimal Glare. Where you need it, when you need it -and not waiting for it to come back up to temp or intensity!!!!

HIDs fail at this, all for a small power saving....

[BigJon]

I've never killed an alternator from aux lighting requirements... :D

Now...

Jon, I know you ran 4 aux lights on your Rangie... 4x100w minimum and the alternator ran fine...



I have. My Rangie alternator died, quite possibly with the extra 400w load.

4 x 35w HID is a much smaller load (140w extra vs 400w extra).

[CaverD3]

LED vs old style filament? I do not think curent draw is important but you get a lot more light from LEDs per watt. Smaller cables needed. Each to their own but the light temperature is very different and takes getting used to. I found this when I went from halogen to LED for my caving cap lamp.

[goingbush]

Interesting to note, Bosch Long Haul Truck Alternator
is only 160 Amps. And those things are covered with lights.

Heavy Duty Bosch Long Haul Alternators (http://www.nationsautoelectric.com/HeavyDutyBoschLongHaulAlternators.html)

[Tombie]

LED vs old style filament? I do not think curent draw is important but you get a lot more light from LEDs per watt. Smaller cables needed. Each to their own but the light temperature is very different and takes getting used to. I found this when I went from halogen to LED for my caving cap lamp.

Got a little off topic....

Yes LED is a lot different....

Optimum setup (as I acknowledged earlier) is:

2 decent lights for distance + LED Bar for flooding the immediate area.

[Tombie]

I have. My Rangie alternator died, quite possibly with the extra 400w load.

4 x 35w HID is a much smaller load (140w extra vs 400w extra).

My point exactly.... However, your alternator was most likely going anyway being an old Rangie unit :cool:

Old Halogen setup: 400w = 33.33a @ 12v

140w input = 11.67a @ 12v

producting a grand total (when new) of 2380x4 = 9520 lumen

give them a month of use and you reduce output by 20% (and they get 'bluer') = 9520 * 0.8 = 7616 lumen

Conversely:

2 x 150w units (300w) = 25a @ 12v producing 10,000 lumen
This will be produced at the same intensity and colour temperature for the life of the unit.

This is 25% less current than 4x 100w conventional (H3) spotlights.


Its also ~25% more light than HID once they have burnt in.

Well within the scope of an early model alternator :cool:

Jon, how old was your alternator? What else did you run? How often?

Back in the days of the Discovery 2's we had 2 x TD5s do alternators in under 15,000km from new (warranty) and running no accessories / modifications at the time.

Both have since ran a large array of lights (min 4x100w) with no issues.

And a TD5 pulls a lot more power than an old Rangie...

In interest to it, I'll throw a Fluke on the TD5 and the TDV6 and measure them running the vehicle in its normal mode... I'd suggest the normal operating draw to be very low.... Even on the electrically complex D4 (will cycle compressor too to see what load changes).

Sorry, but the brain washing of the superior "HID" is not there.

In another thread I will post on colour spectrum vs glare vs pupil behaviour...

Once you get into lighting (LEDs, HID, Halogen etc) and start really understanding the nuts and bolts of it all its quite amazing.
Add in the mechanics of the human eye, our perception of light and how we see it all starts to bring the "big picture" together....

[Tombie]

Side note: A 200amp Alternator for a Land Rover V8 is no more than $400.00 and will power the QE2 ;)

[BigJon]

2 x 150w units (300w)



Slightly off topic, but my experience with 130w bulbs is that they last for a matter of hours, and not many at that. I can only think 150w bulbs would have an even shorter life span.
100w bulbs last quite well. I have replaced one HID "bulb" in 7 years with a lot of night time driving.

[goingbush]

Side note: A 200amp Alternator for a Land Rover V8 is no more than $400.00 and will power the QE2 ;)

QE2 has 10.5 mw of electrical generating power, using ohms law, @12v = 875,000 Amps :twisted: :wasntme:

[Tombie]

Slightly off topic, but my experience with 130w bulbs is that they last for a matter of hours, and not many at that. I can only think 150w bulbs would have an even shorter life span.
100w bulbs last quite well. I have replaced one HID "bulb" in 7 years with a lot of night time driving.

No troubles with these Osram units, and they're getting used worldwide without issue...

[Tombie]

QE2 has 10.5 mw of electrical generating power, using ohms law, @12v = 875,000 Amps :twisted: :wasntme:

OK you got me there :p

[SWH]

This has all been done to death before:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/132545-driving-lights.html

From the docs linked in that thread:

I must apologise to Isuzurover. My intention was simply to participate in the forum and possibly supply some relevant and up to date information.

As a short aside, I have received an email from NSW Roads and Maritime Services (as it now is) which confirms in effect my previous post.

Taking account of the above, and to mis quote Hinmuuttu-yalatlat I will post no more forever on the topic.