Puma Turbo

[Lorryman100]

Just had the Turbo replaced on my Puma (2009, 24,000 mls), due to the bearings running dry/failing. Also got the dealer to use the 3mm annealed copper gasket supplied by me instead of the LR OEM one. Symptoms where a high pitched squeal like a mild slipping fan belt. Sounded the same as when an exhaust manifold stud had snapped on a 200TDI. The noise only appeared once the engine was warm and the squealing coincided with boost demand. Put the Puma into the dealers twice with the normal no fault found answer from them. As it is a pain to keep dropping the Puma into the dealers I did a few tests including the fast idle test on IDS with no sensor readings out of the norm. Also performed a smoke test on the inlet and exhaust systems with no leaks found. Also used a boroscope and ran it around the exhaust manifold and turbo manifold incase the leak appeared when very hot, no soot marks, both still have that nice shade of rust. Next was the Accessory Drive Belt, as it sounded like a slipping belt, some of the paint was missing off the deflection pulley directly under the AC compressor but there was no damage to the drive belt to show slipping, no flattening of the belt grooves etc. Started the engine and had a listen as it was still hot, could hear a slight whistling from the area of the AC compressor, deflection pulley. Removed the cooling fan and accessory belt and started the engine (max of 3 mins as the coolant pump runs off the accessory belt), could still hear the whistle but it was coming from the turbo. Refitted the pulley belt and fan and then removed the turbo heat shield. Restarted the engine and using a stethoscope listened to the turbo and found it was to blame. Went back to the dealers and let them listen, result was a new turbo and no more whistle. I'm hoping that it was a manufacturing defect on the turbo and not an oil feed problem with the duratorq. Anyone else had issues with the Turbo on Pumas?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/1216.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/1217.jpg

Annealed copper gasket was purchased from here: Hochleistungsdichtung Krümmer / Turbolader - Artikeldetailansicht - Nakatanenga 4x4-Equipment für Land Rover & Outdoor (http://nakatanenga-tours.de/shop/article_HCHLDTD4/Hochleistungsdichtung-Kr%C3%BCmmer-_-Turbolader.html'shop_param=cid%3D9%26aid%3DHCHLDTD 4%26)



Brian

[TimNZ]

Sound's pretty unlucky Brian, there arn't too many cases of TDCi turbo failure showing up on the net. Turbotechnics (UK) would be the people to ask if turbo failure is a common problem. Did the dealer replace the oil feed pipe at the same time?

Cheers,

Tim

[Lorryman100]

Tim,

they did change the oil feed pipe at the same time. I did ask them to do this prior to them fitting the new turbo, so not sure if they did it to placate me or if it is part of the replacement turbo?

Brian.

[Lorryman100]

Just had a call from the dealers to let me know that the new deflection pulley and accessory belt is now in stock, so when can I book my Puma in. :o

And here was me thinking that only the turbo was at fault? :eek:

Brian.

[Naks]

hectic, sounds like quite a lot of work!

[Lorryman100]

Hi Naks,

It only took a couple of hours to find the source of the noise, the longest part was trying to get the fan removal tools in place to remove the bloody thing. Plus I had porridge for breakfast so the pulley tensioner was a breeze to manhandle, Grrrr. In the UK the dealer is only paid to fix the problem by LR warranty so unless the problem is obvious they are unlikely to spend a lot of time fault finding which is a pain. I wish now that I had went looking for it earlier and saved myself 2 wasted trips but as it is under warranty I'm loathe to do this as the warranty is paid for in the new vehicle price. :(

Brian.

[stig0000]

have replaced 3 so far, one looked like it had rocks go thru it,,

[Naks]

have replaced 3 so far, one looked like it had rocks go thru it,,

holy mudballs, what were you doing to replace 3 turbos!? :eek:

[seano87]

holy mudballs, what were you doing to replace 3 turbos!? :eek:

Working in a service dept at a dealership?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[Naks]

Working in a service dept at a dealership?

:D

I thought you meant you had 3 turbos replaced on your landy #doh

[alittlebitconcerned]

Mine has done something that sounds very similar. Usually happens when I'm at elevation and the weather is a bit cooler. The turbo starts screaming. It sounds like a slipping belt.

[portafilter]

My tensioner pulley looks exactly like that as well. Is it normal to have it wear like that?

[Drover]

My tensioner pulley looks exactly like that as well. Is it normal to have it wear like that?

Hope so.....looks pretty much the same as mine too

[Tomo]

My car has been stuck at the dealer for 2 weeks now.
Running very bad when hot, after driving down the hwy for approx 20kms. Runs fine when cold.
Dealer on Friday advised me that the EGR was at fault, then they advised me that the car seems to have turbo probs..... We shalll wait and see what they come up with next week. Mine is also a 2009 model with approx 60K kms on the clock...

There is black soot at the back of the turbo and seems to be considerably more oxidation around the turbo.......

Car is 2 months out of warranty :(

Why did you go with that copper gasket?

[Lorryman100]

@Tomo,

Is the soot around the Turbo manifold join? In answer to your question about the gasket, there has been issues with heavily worked pumas and transits suffering from warped turbo/exhaust flange manifolds. What happens is that as it begins to warp the gasket is blown out the gap causing the gases to escape into the engine bay. Signs for this happening are soot marks around the flange join and excessive turbo whistle. The ones I have seen are unfortunately on the underside of the flange, out of view, that is why I used a boroscope to check the manifolds for leaks. The cure for this fault in warranty is replacement of the exhaust manifold and turbo. Out of warranty, the easy fix is the annealed copper gasket which is malleable and fills the gap caused by the warping, that is why it is 3mm thick. Long term repair would be to have the turbo and exhaust manifolds machined flat and using the annealed gasket incase it warps again, though I have not heard of this happening again once the flanges are machined flat.

The paint stripping deflection pulley (No 11 in the below diagram), is a sealed bearing unit held in place by one bolt. It is under a lot of strain as the accessory belt force is from the one direction. Bearings will start to wear in the direction of pull and the first signs of this happening could be a whistle or the paint starting to be stripped due to the bearing freezing occasionally. When I had the accessory belt off, the bearing was not as tight as I would have liked when I was checking for wear. It is really easy to check as well, take some of the pressure off the accessory belt and check it as if you were testing for a worn wheel bearing. To release tension on the pulley tensioner ( No 9 in the below diagram), rotate it clockwise.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/1140.jpg

1 - Air conditioning compressor
2 - Deflection pulley
3 - Deflection pulley
4 - Vacuum pump
5 - Coolant pump
6 - Power steering pump
7 - Crankshaft pulley
8 - Engine cooling fan pulley
9 - Automatic tensioner
10 - Generator
11 - Deflection pulley


Brian.

[Tomo]

Lorryman,
The black soot is near the actuator rod, but on the other side of the turbo I would take a photo and post up, however car at dealers, which is 300km away.

Thanks for your info on the copper gasket

[Lorryman100]

It could be that the exhaust down pipe/cat join is causing the soot build up? Or the down pipe/cat has developed a hole and is leaking soot back up onto the turbo housing? The turbo joins the exhaust/cat pipe system by way of four nuts/studs and there is a gasket in there as well, it could be that is what has failed or the join has come loose and tightening the nuts may cure this? If you do try to tighten them, put some heat onto the nuts first to get them to expand slightly before tightening, otherwise you could shear the stud!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/878.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/879.jpg

If that is not the issue then I would order a new fitting kit and remove the turbo for a visual check. I would be looking for any cracks or holes in the Turbine housing etc. The turbine should spin freely and smoothly with no grittiness or grinding feel to it. I would also be looking for any damage to the turbine, pitting or bits missing! Also check that there is no excessive up and down movement from the turbo shaft.

Once you remove the Turbo heat shield it makes finding the source of the soot a little easier.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/880.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/881.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/882.jpg

The black streaks around the turbo flange are from my dirty oily fingers after running them up and down the join.

Just a thought and my tuppence worth, so if the turbo is at fault and needs replacing, then instead of paying over the odds from LR for a new one, why not get a Hybrid turbo instead for less money and more power?

Brian.

[Drover]

, so if the turbo is at fault and needs replacing, then instead of paying over the odds from LR for a new one, why not get a Hybrid turbo instead for less money and more power?

Brian.

And if its not the turbo, get Hy-Brid anyway........:D

[Lorryman100]

And if its not the turbo, get Hy-Brid anyway........:D


Ordering mine at the end of the month. :twisted::D

[29dinosaur]

This is quite an old thread to dig up but sounds exactly what I'm experiencing. 2010 2.4 Puma. Intermittent high pitch squeal when engine under 3/4-max throttle has developed after 120k kms. Gets worse after longer drive. I have a BAS remap which has the EGR closed off. I suppose I should put back the original MAP then see if it maybe by very slim chance the ECR, but I'm suspecting the turbo or manifold gasket. (Are these copper ones available in Oz?) Differential daignosis - belts, turbo, air box etc, gasket. ???

[MY LANDY]

G'day fellas, seems as though I am just peppering the entire AULRO site with desperate requests for mechanical advice for the 110 Puma. Sad but true. Latest seems to be the turbo, exactly as described on this thread. Developed today while down the coast towing my tinny on a camping trip. Problem is, it 'a the long weekend and I'm a few hours from home.

Also noticed the coolant levels drop, first time in years.

Any advice on whether to drive home, what to monitor, temporary fixes etc?

Many thanks.

Jethro

[PAT303]

If it's the gasket just drive it. Pat

[Jacko44]

Mine was a loose turbo and blown gasket, replace with thicker gasket from South Africa, sorts out problem of the squeel, can do withou taking turbo fully off!!

[Jacko44]

Place on east coast also sells those thicker gasgets, think he's called defender tuning or something similar

[MY LANDY]

Found the culprit: busted hose. Think I'll be replacing with the silicone variety.

[cal415]

this is the thicker gasket i beleive -
Landrover Tuning :: High performance gasket for manifold / turbo for Defender Td4 /Tdci/Puma (http://www.landrovertuning.com.au/high-performance-gasket-for-manifold-turbo-for-defender-td4-tdci-puma.html)

mine has been doing similar for some time, very intermittent at first, after engine breaking only, but recently its fairly constant before boost comes on, as soon as the waste gate opens it goes away. I assume its the gasket in the link above on mine, pressure preturbo is high before the wastegate opens causing it to leak and squeal.... turbo spools up wastegate opens and noise goes away. if i was driving a skyline or something it could be considered fully sick turbo noise haha.

I have yet to fix it as i am considering the hybrid turbo upgrade next :)

[n plus one]

...i am considering the hybrid turbo upgrade next :)

That makes two of us - mine will be a while off though, so I'll be watching with great interest...

[rocknodster]

Aha, so I think this is what mine has just done. Loud noise when accelerating (whistle/siren and a little gravelly) quiet when not under load.
Might just have to bite the bullet and get it to the local mechanic as I am up at the snow with only a small set of tools.

[DiscoMick]

Same whistle here. Going to have it checked out soon.

[DiscoMick]

Being checked in 2 weeks when serviced.
My indie said he has seen cases where something hard has gotten through the air filter and pinged into a blade in the turbo, causing a mark which whistles when it spins.
He said if that's all it is there is no need to do anything as everything still works normally, so the whistle can just be ignored.
Will be interesting to see if that is what he finds.

[Neill675]

I had the same noise the blades in the turbo was busted up so got it reconditioned. Noise is still there so I reckon it’s coming from the idler pulleys r the belt tensioner so I’m in the process of getting them swapped out and hopefully that sorts it. I reckon the turbo had been busted it up for a while just never noticed it.