Hose leak/Coolant level change???

[uninformed]

Hey all,

I have just found a pin hole leak in my main waterpump/radiator hose (the molded multi dia hose). I have no evidence of it leaking at rest. When I arrive at work, Ive been on the road for 45mins, hwy speeds, towing. I park on almost level ground. No puddle/leaks. The hole has come about from the hose rubbing on the Powersteering resivour.

So im guessing the leak only happens when the hose is pressurised and up to temp. My concern is that this has been going on for atleast a coulpe of weeks (1000km) Im thinking maybe more. My coolant level, when cold, on level groung is still above the little marker in the resivour. Im wondering if having this pin hole, and therefore air in the system is going to give me a false reading etc?

I will be tapping up the area today and ordering a new hose tomorrow. At this stage I have had a quick look at ebay. WrinklerAurther gave me a part# that isnt the same as what the seller is stating, but it is advertised for the 300tdi defender, which mine is (or atleast the hose is)

cheers
Serg

[kelvo]

If its the bottom hose - this has 4 pipe connections - the part number was ESR3121 this is now PCH119060.

The top hose - 2 pipe connections - is ESR2298.

[uninformed]

thanks Kelvo.

So guys, would this affect the level in the reservoir? would it show normal or high when its actually low, ie air trapped??

I seriously dont want to FUBAR a head!!!!

[uninformed]

also ill be using Tecaloy etra cool coolant. LR states to use a 50-50 mix of water/coolant. Is this the going rate these days? And the system holds approx 11ltr is that correct?

[uninformed]

I think I can hear crickets.......................................... ...

[Blknight.aus]

the crickets will be a sticking/failing bearing, probably one in an idler.

[uninformed]

that was about as helpful as the silence.......

[Blknight.aus]

theres any number of adequate answers.

Ive seen almost no coolant in the tank but full coolant in the engine and radiator

Ive seen a full coolant tank with almost no coolant in the head

Ive even seen one that would have a full coolant bottle when it was cool but once started and run up when the thermostat opened it would suck 90% of the coolant out of the bottle run like that all day and then gradually return the coolant over night, filling the tank while it was empty and hot would just make it blow a it cookies out of the cap or blow a hose off of the expansion tank.



best guess.

if you have a pinhole leak thats allowing the system leak then air is getting in and the head is loosing its prime so the coolant level is wherever it is in the tank when you start up. When the thermostat opens up the flow rate will reprime the head as best it can with the coolant available from the expansion tank.

IF you hear gurgling in the heater matrix (use a stethescope) on start up then you've got air in the cooling system proper (not just the top of the expansion tank)

ON tectaloy, the workable range for the tdi is 30-50% how that goes for what youve got is almost anyones guess as tectaloy comes in a few sizes and concetrations from premixed and ready to tip in @30% to a 1l makes 10l of 50% post mix. I usually gauge it by the look and viscosity of the coolant in the bottle, Fortunately the appropriate mixing rates for tectaloy are usually on the bottle for both the 30 and 50% rates.

[uninformed]

ok Dave, I can play to......:D

so the short answer was yes, could be a number of things. Now that you have given me something to go on, I can give you more info to make a informed guess on......

The pin hole, as I stated, is located on the lower radiator hose, where it rubs against the powersteering reservoir. So its high but not the highest point. The height of coolant in the expansion tank is pretty much the same cold and hot. The temp gauge (VDO) is doing what it normally does, engine takes the same time to heat, runs at the same temp etc. Ive also been watching the EGT pretty close. Same same for it.

As for the Tectaloy, I have the same bottle you gave me when you did my P gasket. And as I stated its the Tectaloy XTRA COOL. Now it says it "treats 10 litres of coolant...and the bottle is 500ml....so to me that is 5%. I also have a bottle of Tectaloy XTRA COOL GOLD, it says 1 Litre treats 15 litres, again to me that is 6.66666666667%. No where, on either bottles, does it express it as a percent or ratio (like 50-50 or 30% mix) That is why I asked, LR RAVE states 50%-50% of water/anti-freeze mixture......so do I just go by the bottle? or add a certain amount based on your or others LR experience. To often Im hearing of little tips tricks that have been proven, but arent LR's code of practice or noted else where....

as far as going by the colour/viscosity, good luck telling these 2 different ones apart by eye or feel.

[Blknight.aus]

the 500ml bottle I gave you treats 10L of water and thats the 30% mix.

The coolants in the bottle are concentrated like cordial cottees can now supply you with orange cordial in a 2l bottle that makes 10l of cordial OR 1l of cordial that makes 10L of cordial.

from memory the ratio is listed on the back of the 1l bottle of the same coolant in 10L of water its 50% in 15l of water its 30%.

you can easily tell the difference between the concentrate, premix and super concentrates.

[uninformed]

Thanks Dave, I have both with me right now and no where are there percentages. The only differences between the XTRA COOL and the XTRA COOL GOLD is that the XTRA COOL states 500mls treats 10 Litres and the XTRA COOL GOLD states 1 litre will make UP TO 15 litres.......

XTRA COOL = 369g/litre ethylene glycol

XTRA COOL GOLD = 280g/litre ethylene glycol

both have 10ppm bittering agent.

So do you advise using the XTRA COOL GOLD 1 litre for a full mix in the 11 litre system to make close to the 50%

Is there a way to calc the 30 or 50 % based on coolant per water???

BTW I dont drink cordial.....

[Blknight.aus]

I'll have to go and dig out some of my older bottles, They've got the % rates on them where the contents data is...

Id got the l of xtra cool into 10l of water.

[DeanoH]

I've always been intrigued by the crap people put in their radiators in the sure knowledge that it enhances cooling and reduces corrosion. The funniest place is Perth where people feed the tap water to their kids but won't put it in their radiators.:confused:

European car manufacturers are big into putting Ethylene Glycol into cooling systems (to be different the Spanish put it in their wine) as this decreases the freezing point of the coolant. This is probably a good idea because if you're silly enough to live where the temps get well bellow zero you don't really want your engine block to split as the coolant freezes.:(

But, really, in Australia ? Sure if you're one of the few who live in Alpine areas or mad enough to actually ENJOY visiting snowfields this (Ethylene Glycol coolant mixture) is a good idea. But for the 99.9% of Australians who have more sense their cars are never going to get anywhere near to freezing the coolant, especially coastal dwellers in the land of the Big Banana. :angel:

In Australia it's the other end of the temperature scale that's more important. You're more likely to overheat an engine than freeze its bollocks off, especially with crappy euro spec cooling systems designed by people whose idea of a hot day is one where the snow melts. A cooling system full of green dye and Ethylene Glycol is going to make bugger all difference here. The important characteristic here is cooling system pressure. As pressure increases so does the the boiling point of the coolant.

So what's left ?, corrosion inhibition that's what. A decent corrosion inhibitor in a clean cooling system filled with de-mineralised water is what's required. RMI corrosion inhibitor is probably one of the best around though there are probably others that are effective as well.

So don't waste your money on useless euro-trash spec 33-100% Ethylene Glycol mixtures, a decent inhibitor in clean de-mineralised water is what's required for most Australian conditions.:)

Deano :)

[uninformed]

Tectaloy exceeds AS2108.2004 Type B, exceeds ASTM D4340....and is made in SA :) Is that Aus enough for you :D

[uninformed]

thanks DeanoH, but I have to ask, do you only feed your kids Demineralised water:confused:

on a serious note, Im guessing there are good corrosion inhibators in Tectaloy, or am I wrong? I also was under the impression that there is something in it that aids cooling???

[DeanoH]

thanks DeanoH, but I have to ask, do you only feed your kids Demineralised water:confused:


Nah!.............................the buggers are more likely to drink my beer these days.:mad:


I've nothing against Tecalloy or other products but I can't see the point of running anti freeze (Ethylene Glycol) when there's no chance of the coolant freezing.

Being a cynical sort of bloke I wonder how much of this expensive green stuff we are conditioned to put in our cooling systems is really just clever marketing.

When I say de-mineralised water I mean water without crap in it. Rain water would be fine but I'd be concerned at the alkalinity if it came out of a newish concrete tank but I'd be OK with a plastic or gal tank. Certainly wouldn't be happy with bore water (Perths water is shandied bore/rain water).

A mate of mine who was the local radiator repairer put me on to RMI 25 about 15 years ago. It's a 'cooling system treatment' that's added at 80:1 to clean water and it really works well. I've seen radiators 10 years old looking good as new, clean and corrosion free when RMI 25 is used. It's an American product distributed by Smoke-Less Diesel service in NSW. It's very good.

Deano :)

[Blknight.aus]

the ethylene glycol is more than just an antifreeze, more accurately its just a generic name for a style of coolant. Coolant has more properties than just to raise the boiling point and lower the freezing point off of the top of my head it also provides

Corrosion protection
Anti foaming properties
PH stabilization
Lubrication
Surface Tension control

I recall its got some other properties but cant remember what they are.


The major players when it comes to styles of coolant are

Ethylene glycol, they contain more than just the Ethylene glycol these are considered your old school coolants or "the green stuff" Its cheap and it works. But its got a higher demand on maintenance in terms of flushing and renewing.

OAT, Organic Acid Technology aka "The Red stuff". a very good coolant IMHO if you use it correctly, dont contaminate it and are prepared to actually do the required work on the cooling system rather than just gooping up leaks. Its a bit more expensive but if looked after correctly has a lower maintenance cost in terms of flushing and renewing which pays off in the long term.

HOAT, Hybrid Organic Acid Tech. A compatible with everything coolant, It mixes with both OAT and the Ethyl glycol stuff IT offers a little of the best of the other 2 coolants and a little of the worst. This is typically an Orangey colour but its also comes in blue and green that I know of.

[uninformed]

ok so I did my flush, I removed the return hose from the heater (closest to front of vehicle and runs into the metal pipe that runs across the top of the head). I made up a length of 19mm radiator hose with a standard garden hose male fitting. This allowed me to use a quick connect with incorperated tap on the end of the garden hose from the rain tank. I also ran a length of hose from the heater outlet into a big tub. I dumped what I could be removing the expansion tank 19mm hose and dropping as low as possible. Then I ran the tank water and engine until it flowed clear.....it takes a while.

Fitted hose only to find that since I have a 2.8tgv the stock LR Def 300tdi hose doesnt fit right...it pulls hard against the alternator and its fan :mad:...in the end I find out its a OEM Disco 300tdi hose. Pick one up and with a little trimming here and there I get it to be a good fit with 8mm clearance from the reservoir...

Now when I do my refill I dump 5lt of Demineralised water into the expansion tank, then add the 1lt of tectaloy...now put the rad brass plug back as its full. I then start to dump another 5lt bottle of demineralised water into the system....when the thermostat starts to flow I cap it and fill some more.

In the end I only got 8lt total in the system. LR state 11.1lt...... I ran the engine until it got to 80c on the temp gauge. I took it for a 5km run. The expansion tank is still over full

is it a case of when I flushed it I didnt get all the water out? is it normal for there to be about 3lt left in the system???

[Blknight.aus]

yes, unless you air dry the cooling system it will hold from 2-4L depending on how you've dismantled it or if you know about the secret drain bung that I generally advise not touching as it will usually snap off or leak if disturbed and not replaced.

You're about right for the filling technique but refer back to the coke bottle fill thread.