101 Power Steering

[101RRS]

Other than the red 101 camper does anyone have power steering on their 101.

In the UK they use a box out of some old Brit van or a RRC/Disco 1 box but both require cutting into the front chassis rail which I am not keen on.

I have heard that a P38 box will also go but have not heard anything about that mod. I have also heard a Patrol box works but again I do not know anyone has done it.

Likewise with power steering on the red 101 camper which was done by AJ in Melbourne no one seems to know what system it has on it.

I have not problems steering the 101 on the road or offroad but in tight manoeuvring it needs to be moving slightly forward or back to turn the wheel. The strength is there but the shoulder ball sockets are no up to it.

So if your 101 or you know of a 101 with power steering can you post up the system in use and what mods to the front end are required.

Thanks

Garry

[Mick_Marsh]

I was talking to AJ about this some months ago. There was another type that clamped on. Might be worth giving him a call to find out what solutions he has.

[101RRS]

There was another type that clamped on.

Yes there are the old ram types that bolt onto the steering rods like 60s Holdens and some series landies have them but they do not work all that well and I would prefer a steering box type unit.

This is the type of system you are talking about TDZ Power Steering System, Heystee Automotive Online Store (http://www.heystee-automotive.com/onlineshop/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23_25&products_id=30)

Cheers

Garry

[Lotz-A-Landies]

The one I saw on one of AJs was off a Mazda IIRC. The box mounts to a new cross member mounted between the chassis side rails forward of the OEM front member on an angle more forward on the RHS and touching the front cross member on the LHS.

I'm thinking the steering lever on the bottom protruded to the rear with the tie rod end in line with the original track rod.

A bevel box is fitted below the original steering column to re direct the rotary motion from the inclined vertical axis to a lateral axis aligning with the input shaft of the PAS box.

The bevel box (usually sourced from a forward control van like a Mitsi L300 or Delica) needs to be modified to reverse the direction of rotation, this is usually achieved by moving the input bevel gear from driving the top of the output bevel gear, to the input gear driving the bottom of the output bevel gear. The actual process requires removing the input gear from the input shaft, the gear turned over and refitted to a lengthened shaft.

A P38a box would fit in position the same as the mazda box, alternative the PAS box off some Toyota Land Cruiser is the same orientation. What is more, a friend recently fitted a Toyota LC box to a non-PAS FJ40, they fitted it up only to find the box turned the wrong direction. They solved the problem by getting an alternative LC box that turned the correct direction. This means that by finding the correct LC box you wont have to modify the bevel box.

On the day I saw AJs 101, he had just picked up a bevel box off some sort of armoured vehicle which he thought would be much stronger in place of the van one. It may well have been the gear box off the turret traverse mechanism.

[101RRS]

Thanks Diana - never heard of that one before - sounds a bit Heath Robinson - very British in thinking even though it uses Jap parts.

I must admit I was thinking about going around all the light truck dealers and if I can find any light truck wreckers and climb under their forward controls to see if there any ideas there.

Garry

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hi Garry

Its rather simple actually, the new cross member was merely some heavy angle iron.

If you could find the bevel box off the armoured vehicle it mounts under the floor where the OEM steering box sits, it may even poke through the floor.

The output shaft then points in the correct angle towards the PAS box and then just find the LC box that turns the correct way. The rest is making a new shorter drag link and connecting up all the shafts.

[101 Ron]

Yes there are the old ram types that bolt onto the steering rods like 60s Holdens and some series landies have them but they do not work all that well and I would prefer a steering box type unit.

This is the type of system you are talking about TDZ Power Steering System, Heystee Automotive Online Store (http://www.heystee-automotive.com/onlineshop/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23_25&products_id=30)

Cheers

Garry

The ram type system is very good if done right.
Vickers were the main manufacture of this type of set up in Australia.
I can still find Australian manufactured forklifts with 2 tonnes of counterweight sitting over the steering axle and you can spin the steering wheel around lock to lock without moving the vehicle forwards.
I dont think Vicker exist, or make these steering set ups anymore.
Vickers steering rams are still repaired by most hydraulic specialist workshops.
The main thing which must be done to fit as a ram anchor ball joint point on the chassis inline with the cross chassis drag link.
the vickers ram shaft will need the correct sort of adaptor to fit on to the original drag link or LHS CV joint housing.
The Ram must have the correct tappered pin or adaptor from the cross chassis bell crank to tigger the rams valving..
The above set up will work as hard or as little as you like, it is all about hydraulic pressure from the pump.
The above will require little as possible modification of the vehicle.
It believe the Red 101 which AJ done is one of Two he done and use the Nissan steering box.
I have seen a 101 done with a Disco steering box which used a Disc steering wheel and columb and I have driven this vehicle, it worked well and I
do have pics some where.
The disc mod had the steering box and columb offset slightly from its central positon in the middle of the floor.
I have been looking at the vickers type set up, but have not come across a suitable ram at work.......the whole steering thing has not been a issuse with me as I just eat my spinage.
Garry I f you are getting to old to drive your 101 I can find a good home for it.:D:D:D

[123rover50]

This is what I did with the 6x6. Though may not suit your application.
4 bolt box on its side. Works very well.
Didiman

[101RRS]

This is what I did with the 6x6. Though may not suit your application.
4 bolt box on its side. Works very well.
Didiman

Thanks - on a 101 the 4 bolt can go in - I have detailed instructions on how to do it but as mentioned above it does require cutting into the front chassis section Grumble PAS Conversion (http://www.101fc.net/grumble-pas/index.htm)

Thanks also Diana - I assume your description is how AJ did Alan's (????) 101 camper.

Ron, I assume the 101 you are talking about with the Disco box is the white 101 with Toyota running gear.

Anyway -I take it that other than the red camper and Rons mysterious 101 no one has or come across a local 101 with power steering - in particular one with a P38 steering box - any one with a P38 want to pull their steering box out and see it if will fit with minimal modification to the chassis :).

Cheers

Garry

[101 Ron]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/717.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/718.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/719.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/720.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/721.jpg

[101 Ron]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/715.jpg

[101RRS]

Ron,

That white 101 looks like it has not had is chassis cut to fit the disco box. I might see if I can get a dead one off ebay and use as a model to see if it will fit.

[101 Ron]

On the white 101 the steering columb was from a disco with all the switch gear and the steering columb was offset to one side slightly at the floor.

The steering box sat in a little sub frame welded to the chassis and therefore the need to offset the columb slightly.

Here another one i have in my reference collection.
I like this as it makes the steering linkage so simple.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/675.jpg

[101RRS]

The genuine 101 box has a very short output shaft housing - only about 2 inches whereas most other boxes have a much longer out shaft housing - hence the need to fit cut the chassis to make it fit.

I did a search on ebay last night and the TJ Cherokee power steering box seems to have similar dimensions to the 101 one but its input shaft and output shafts seem lighter than the 101. Something to investigate further.

[toad]

Thanks - in particular one with a P38 steering box - any one with a P38 want to pull their steering box out and see it if will fit with minimal modification to the chassis :).

Cheers

Garry

Gary, l just picked one up and it's now on the block (for wreaking), come a pull the box off and give it a try. Rick.

[101RRS]

Gary, l just picked one up and it's now on the block (for wreaking), come a pull the box off and give it a try. Rick.

Did you bring the whole car back from Vic :o?

I will get my spare steering box and control arm and come down and check it out. I will give you a call next week.

See the silly old fart over on the north side has finally started to do some work on his wagon - even though there is nothing wrong with him he pulled a few sickies this week to work on it. :)

[101 Ron]

If you are going to do the power steering thing, do you want to sell your spare steering box ?
My steering box is on the way out.
Ron

[101RRS]

If you are going to do the power steering thing, do you want to sell your spare steering box ?
My steering box is on the way out.
Ron

Not the new old stock one - maybe the one that is in the truck but that is worse than yours. It still drives like a boat but is not getting worse.

What is wrong with yours - it was quite good - does it just need a new set of bearings and adjustment.

[toad]

Did you bring the whole car back from Vic :o?

I will get my spare steering box and control arm and come down and check it out. I will give you a call next week.

See the silly old fart over on the north side has finally started to do some work on his wagon - even though there is nothing wrong with him he pulled a few sickies this week to work on it. :)

Yes I brought the whole car back, so I have a P38 to strip!

Will be interested to see how Drifters bus turns out, its a good base to start with.

[101 Ron]

Not the new old stock one - maybe the one that is in the truck but that is worse than yours. It still drives like a boat but is not getting worse.

What is wrong with yours - it was quite good - does it just need a new set of bearings and adjustment.

My steering box is due for the lot.
Its nothing I can not sort out, but doing up another spare box and dropping it in means the vehicle is not off the road and I can do it at my leisure etc.

[101RRS]

I have acquired a 90s Jeep Cherokee power steering box. It is quite compact and a lot heavier built that the 101 box and while I haven't checked it should go in with minimal modification to the current mounts - certainly no cutting of the chassis.

While this is the positive side - there is a major deficiency in that it turns the wrong way. so putting it in as is would result in the 101 turning left instead of right.

Before moving on to something else I thought a solution could be to put a small gearbox on the bottom of the steering column that changes the direction of the drive - this would comprise an input shaft and an out put shaft with a gear on each. The issue is where to get the gear and I was think the gear off a larger engine starter motor welded to a shaft then heat treated would work - likewise maybe the gear of the bottom of a large distributor would work. The gearbox casing would just be fabricated out of some thick mild steel with small sealed bearings at either end. Given the low rotational speed of the gears grease could probably be used as the gear lubrication with a grease nipple to keep it topped up.

So - is this a looney proposal and would little gearboxes like I described be available off the shelf somewhere.

At this time it is just an idea - nothing more advanced.

Cheers

Garry

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hi Garry

I know that AJ uses bevel boxes from forward control vans. If the rotation is not correct he moves one gear to the oposite side which reverses the relationship. He usually places the bevel box immediately under the floor. There is a bevel box off one of the Isuzu utes that looks very robust

You can also get stock gears from people like Ronson Gears Stock Gears and Racks - Gear Racks, Spur Gears, Mitre Gears, Bevel Gears | Ronson Gears Australia (http://www.ronsongears.com.au/stock-gears.php) or Blackwoods. https://www.blackwoods.com.au/search/gears-mitre/202003398

[Sitec]

Garry... Thinking outside the box here, a small Bosch hydraulic pump is basically what you describe.... If you could find two scrap hydraulic pumps of the same type and use both drive gears you would have a reverse direction box.. Plug both the old inlet and outlet ports and fit a grease nipple to one of those plugs... Job done... Found this photo on Google... This is the type of pump I mean... Just a thought...

[101RRS]

Thanks Diana - I will see if I can one from a wrecker and see how it goes - the current box I have would work if mounted on the inside of the bumper if i can get steering drive to it.

Sitec - not sure I follow the use of a hydraulic pump - do you mean use the innards of these pumps as I suggested above??

Thanks for the ideas - it all helps.

Cheers

Garry

[Homestar]

Diana beat me to the punch here about the bevel box AJ uses. His conversion is very good as there is no cutting of the chassis at all, and it can be returned to standard steering easily if desired. It is how I'll do mine if/when I get around to it - well, actually pay AJ to do it is what I meant...:D

[Sitec]

Sitec - not sure I follow the use of a hydraulic pump - do you mean use the innards of these pumps as I suggested above??

Hi Garrycol.
The guts of these pumps are really simple. Just a pair of matching meshing gears mounted in an alli body (the bit that wears out), and running with bushes either end of each gear. All the end plates are standard, so it could be easily turned into the reverse drive box you describe. Will draw a pic later but have to be elsewhere now.. Cheers.

[101RRS]

Yep - thanks - thought it through and I see what you mean - a good start.

Cheers

Garry

[DasLandRoverMan]

There's a guy in the UK that did PAS with the jeep box, a bit of a rough and ready job to say the least, but I believe it still works.

To solve the rotation problem he rotated the drop arm on the steering relay 180 degrees, lost out a bit on right hand lock because if it went too far it wouldn't straighten up again. The drivers floor was also reshaped with a hammer to clear the steering arm on the box.
It's on the 101 club forum somewhere (the chap who did the wood gas setup) but I can't be bothered looking it out (quick search didn't find it).

I like Simons idea, with the pump gears, couldn't really ask for a better start than a pair of hardened gears 2-3 inches deep with a reasonable diameter.

[Brute]

Has anyone tried to use a steering torque amplifier as used in a lot of race cars, tractors etc.

Justs fits inline in the steering column between wheel and box. connect hoses from a pump. You turn steering and the unit hydraulically multiplies the torque at the output side through to the standard manual steering box. Should be fairly easy to mod steering column to fit it.

Ian

[DasLandRoverMan]

Won't work particularly easily with the 101 steering box/column setup as it's a one piece setup that doesn't lend itself to splitting in two.

[alan48]

Hi, my old 101 camper had a Nissan PAS unit fitted by AJ and it was brilliant--maybe talk to him/ get him to do it.

[rovercare]

Diana beat me to the punch here about the bevel box AJ uses. His conversion is very good as there is no cutting of the chassis at all, and it can be returned to standard steering easily if desired. It is how I'll do mine if/when I get around to it - well, actually pay AJ to do it is what I meant...:D

Spoke with AJ, I will be heading down to check it out when I am back in aus, power steer, then disc brakes, sort suspension....then likely LS2:angel:

[Homestar]

Spoke with AJ, I will be heading down to check it out when I am back in aus, power steer, then disc brakes, sort suspension....then likely LS2:angel:

Did you manage to get a price out of him for the power steering? I've been asking him for months, but he won't give me an answer.

If you find out, let me know.:)

[rovercare]

Some people are like that, hence I will just go there, he said he would happily sell me some bits and show me the how too's etc

He said he is working on a kit, but some components have been at the engineers for months, awaiting engineer approval so he can sell them as engineered kits, I guess that is the hold up

[bed_bug]

FYI, Someone buying some YS tyres From me had a Jeep box conversion in the UK. Chaps been using it without any grief and there are numerous pictures of the build.

http://www.101club.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8086

[Homestar]

FYI, Someone buying some YS tyres From me had a Jeep box conversion in the UK. Chaps been using it without any grief and there are numerous pictures of the build.

101 club • Login (http://www.101club.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8086)

Unfortunately, looks like you need to be a member to look at that thread, like most stuff there.... Won't go into that any further....

[101RRS]

FYI, Someone buying some YS tyres From me had a Jeep box conversion in the UK. Chaps been using it without any grief and there are numerous pictures of the build.

101 club • Login (http://www.101club.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8086)

Thanks and I appreciate your efforts but no much use unless you are a paid up member of the 101 Club.

Cheers

Garry

[Sitec]

FYI, Someone buying some YS tyres From me had a Jeep box conversion in the UK. Chaps been using it without any grief and there are numerous pictures of the build.

101 club • Login (http://www.101club.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8086)

This thread is in the workshop section.. I can see it, just can't comment on it..

[rovercare]

This thread is in the workshop section.. I can see it, just can't comment on it..

Yep, I can read it fine, just joined up, not financial

Can't be bothered trying to reinvent, so hopefully AJ's conversion is the goods, anyone seen it? I'll be back in aus in a week and a half and go for a bo peep. apparently can be returned to stock no probs

[rovercare]

Hi, my old 101 camper had a Nissan PAS unit fitted by AJ and it was brilliant--maybe talk to him/ get him to do it.

Do you have any pictures?

[rovercare]

Well I now know how to sort my power steer and own a nokken winch, ver informative guy

[rovercare]

I can see Garry and I r thinking along the same lines... 101 power steering!!! :)

I gots one and the steering box that turns the right way, its a very simple conversion.....you lot not looked at AJ's?

[Homestar]

I gots one and the steering box that turns the right way, its a very simple conversion.....you lot not looked at AJ's?

Yep, we took his for a spin the other weekend. He is preparing to have several kits made up - I'll be grabbing one of those, it's a very neat conversion.

[101RRS]

How does he do it?

[roobar_and_custard]

I've seen AJ's conversion. He uses the same principle, but made his own bevel box.
Makes a lot of sense really, but would be a lot of effort. I don't remember where his steering box came from, but perhaps a Toyota?

A kit would be a great addition to the 101 parts list... But no help to me :(

[101RRS]

Thanks, but what you have said is all that anyone has said - I still have no idea of layout - what connects to what etc and where are the bits located.

If anyone knows please explain.

Thanks

Garry

[Homestar]

The existing steering box is removed from the end of the steering column and the bevel box replaces it. A shaft from there runs to a Nissan Patrol Power Steering box that is located on a new bracket welded to the chassis just in front of the steering relay - which is removed. The steering drag link bolts straight to the new steering box. It doesn't require any cutting of the chassis, so it can be returned to standard if need be. AJ has been running this set up for years without issue - it looks like it has always been there and makes for very easy steering. Reduces lock to lock turns to 4.

[Homestar]

Sorry for the thread hijack Ian - I can move all these posts to a power steering thread if need be.

I managed to snaffle this from a people mover the other week - I had forgotten about it until now.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=81993&d=1407846410

Not sure if it is workable yet, but one day I will have a play and find out. I'll see if I can find out exactly what year the PS box came out of.

[Homestar]

Ok, looks like it's a common as muck GQ unit. See how the input is on the LHS - this is connected to the output of the bevel box. The plate it mounts to that needs to be welded on attaches on an angle between the steering relay crossmember and the drivers side chassis rail.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=81994&d=1407846958

I might go and find one tomorrow...

Maybe I should move all this to a different thread - I think there is one here somewhere for power steering.

[rovercare]

Wrong Nissan steering box, its little brother turns the correct way

I never really wished to give out any of the details, as it was all AJ's work and I'm not one to share something in which he is going to sell, so for those that wish to know, ask AJ

[Homestar]

Fair enough - I'll go through the Wreckers today and see what I can find. AJ mentioned it was a Nissan box, the GQ looked like it, but I'll track it down.

AJ didn't seem to make much of a secret about it, he was happy to show everyone how it was done and let us take it for a spin. I may yet be getting him to install mine anyway - we have talked about what he can offer, which was a bit vague to be honest, so I'm still not sure what is included in his kit.

[rovercare]

Fair enough - I'll go through the Wreckers today and see what I can find. AJ mentioned it was a Nissan box, the GQ looked like it, but I'll track it down.

AJ didn't seem to make much of a secret about it, he was happy to show everyone how it was done and let us take it for a spin. I may yet be getting him to install mine anyway - we have talked about what he can offer, which was a bit vague to be honest, so I'm still not sure what is included in his kit.

Yea I understand that, but its still not my place, he was happy to give me all the details, on the steering column mods, which box(which there are a few differences) and all that, so maybe just chat with him....seeing as he plans to sell them, its upto him to share

I must pick up that nokken winch this time I am home from him

[Homestar]

Fair call.

[Sitec]

Sounds a bit like my Cummins conversion kit... There's now a guy making a batch up in the UK modelled of my original kit and thread!! At the end of the day, if AJ had wanted to do loads of kits, he'd have come on here with a 'package' ready to bolt on ages ago!:)

[spongie]

Not to mention fuel tanks too

[101 Ron]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/843.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/306_zps7ec14509.jpg.html)

[101 Ron]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/840.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/305_zps0dc045b9.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/841.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/307_zps0af8519b.jpg.html)
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p299/101Ron/ron%203/308_zps4552f8c1.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/308_zps4552f8c1.jpg.html)

[101 Ron]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/842.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/309_zps70612474.jpg.html)

[DasLandRoverMan]

Looks a very neat setup, the box looks pretty similar to a P38 one, might be a more available option to UK owners.

Just a question of finding the most available bits that all rotate in the right direction.

[rovercare]

Sounds a bit like my Cummins conversion kit... There's now a guy making a batch up in the UK modelled of my original kit and thread!! At the end of the day, if AJ had wanted to do loads of kits, he'd have come on here with a 'package' ready to bolt on ages ago!:)

I don't see AJ coming here and posting a step by step detailed thread on how to recreate it...he may well be happy to share with the world, just not upto me to make the choice for him:)

[stuee]

That does look very neat, to the point that now I'm interested in a power steering conversion:p I'll have to give AJ a call when mine is on the road.

[Homestar]

Ok, so I went to a Nissan Wreckers today and found the box in question. The Patrol one shown earlier is indeed wrong - it swings the wrong way, but there is a box that works the right way.

There seems to be a couple of variants of it, so still have a bit more research to do. The pitman arm length on the one I looked at seemed a tad short, but the earlier version has a longer pitman arm.

Ron - you wouldn't know the length of the pitman arm in those photos by any chance?

[Homestar]

This is what I found - $120 for a good second hand unit. Looks almost identical to the pic Ron posted, but as mentioned, the pitman arm looks a bit short. Still got to do some work on that one.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=82033&d=1407924205

[101RRS]

So if the input shaft is turned clockwise what direction does the output shaft (pitman) turn.

[Homestar]

Turning the input clockwise is making a RH turn. Looking from underneath the car at the pitman arm (pitman arm faces the back of the vehicle), it will be moving clockwise pulling the steering rod from left to right.

[101 Ron]

Ok, so I went to a Nissan Wreckers today and found the box in question. The Patrol one shown earlier is indeed wrong - it swings the wrong way, but there is a box that works the right way.

There seems to be a couple of variants of it, so still have a bit more research to do. The pitman arm length on the one I looked at seemed a tad short, but the earlier version has a longer pitman arm.

Ron - you wouldn't know the length of the pitman arm in those photos by any chance?

No.........I just took the photos.