My D4's Reliability (or lack thereof)

[deano]

I traded my Freelander 2 TD4 for a new D4 TDV6 (HI-ICE, rear e-diff) back in Oct 2010 and whilst I loved the car, this one hates me. Since the beginning I have had problems - here is a quick timeline.

Nov 2010 - three weeks after delivery was found to have a leaking o-ring in the steering rack - needed a replacement steering rack which was fitted end of Jan 2011.

Dec 2010 - when away on holiday there was a loud bang and I pulled over thinking it was a tyre. Dash lit up with engine fault. Had to be towed to dealer. Problem was turbo charger hose. I lost a few days of my holiday waiting for the car.

Jul/Aug 2011 - intermittently the centre display (sat nav, stereo, rear camera etc) would stay locked on with the Land Rover logo. After a couple trips back to the dealer who couldn't replicate the problem, a software upgrade apparently fixed it.

Dec 2011 / Jan 2012 - on holiday and battery died. The closest dealer did not have one in stock and I would have to wait at least 2 days to get one shipped in from Melbourne. I asked about swapping one out with the showroom car (I don't think many people buy cars over Christmas/New Year). Dealer wouldn't do it - had to detour to Melbourne to get it replaced under warranty.

July 2012 - on Moreton Island (weekend trip showing the relatives from Czech Republic around) the car wouldn't start - engine would turn over but no go, no fault lights. Had to pay for tow back to the ferry and LR Assist took over once back on the mainland - we got a taxi home. I called LR Assist the next day for a status report. Apparently the car had been delivered to the dealer - they could call the dealer for an update or I could call. I called the dealer - they didn't have my car. They checked with the other dealers in the area and could not find it. Eventually the car turned up at the tow depot and was delivered the next day. After a week of not being able to find out what was wrong with the car it was determined the problem was the crankshaft position sensor. The car was pulled apart and sensor replaced. I got the car back 12 days after it broke down.

It now gets even better, 2 days after getting the car back it now has a suspension fault. The car is back at the dealer today.

Is this normal for a D4? I hope not.

This is not the car I wanted. The reason for "upgrading" to the D4 from the FL2 was so I could do some trips away to places like Cape York and central Australia, maybe even the Simpson.

From my point of view, the car fails to meet the basic requirements of:

- being of acceptable quality i.e. safe, free from defects and durable
- fit for purpose (it is advertised as an "all-terrain vehicle" but at the moment I would only trust it as a driveway ornament)

At the moment I can't rely on this car to get me to work let alone go on a trip to a remote location.

I have sent a letter detailing the full circumstances to Land Rover but have not had a reply after a week - not even a call to say thanks for the letter, we are following it up.

The car is on a four year lease so backing out of this early will cost me.

I hoping that someone out there might be able to help me with the following questions:

Any suggestions on how I can get the car that I paid for? (My mates' suggest trading it for a Landcruiser - [bigsad]).

How do I get in contact with Land Rover so that they acknowledge that there is a problem and take action?

thanks

Dean

[Redback]

You have to keep pestering them, they will eventually reply, it helps to speak to a supervisor, be polite and you will get a result, hopefully it will be a good one.

Baz.

[deano]

Update: Dealer just called regarding the suspension problem - faulty compressor unit. It's been replaced and good to go.

Dean

[Redback]

Update: Dealer just called regarding the suspension problem - faulty compressor unit. It's been replaced and good to go.

Dean

That's good, hope it all goes well now, we just got back from a 6000k trip into outback SA and VIC, only one small issue, fixed by Lincoln Land Rover appart from that and a small water leak ours has been great, 33,000ks now, going better than ever.

Good Luck, Baz.

[d3syd]

Geez Dean, you are really having a bad run :(. I can understand your reluctance to trust it for anything more that a trip to the local shops. Must really be the luck of the draw that you got a dud.

My D4 has been trouble free so far, and my D3 and D2 before that never let me down. Both D2 and D3 have been to the Cape and were great.

I agree, keep pestering LR. Threaten to go to consumer affairs or the media if they don't co-operate.

[mervwho]

I had the same problem with a Jeep which lasted for three years and was almost rebuilt from the bottom up under warranty, just keep annoying the living daylights out of them but do it very politely.
All the best and good luck.

[Stuart02]

I've found that being brutally honest on the feedback/satisfaction surveys can get some action...

Talk about a Friday build, terrible run of luck. 34000km trouble free on my 2.7 tdv6 D4, same purchase month as yours... Touch wood!

[Disco4SE]

Hi Deano,
Sounds like you have a dud for sure.
My D4 has over 100,000Klm's on it now and I still enjoy driving it every day (problem free).
Mate bought the Cruiser and has had plenty of problems. He had his tailshaft go at 18,000Klm's.

Hang in there and keep onto the dealer. Might be worth going to another dealer???

Cheers, Craig

[CraigH]

Gee that's some bad luck. My folks have had their D4 for just over a year, towing a caravan and except for 2 flat tyres completely trouble free.

[CaverD3]

I would try another dealer. Compreessor failure would not stop it from starting. It does not sound like they are giving you any support with LR.

[WhiteD3]

You're in Brissy so I assume you bought local. Which service dept do you go to? North or south of the river?

[TerryO]

Given you have a four year lease I would consider buying the extended Alliance Warranty for the final year or two if you are thinking of keeping it.

cheers,
Terry

[gecko]

Glad you are back up and running. Touch wood but we have had no problems with our D4 (April 2011 build).

[deano]

I would try another dealer. Compreessor failure would not stop it from starting. It does not sound like they are giving you any support with LR.

Hi CaverD3,

the fault that prevented it from starting was the crankshaft position sensor which as I understand is part of the main rear bearing assembly. The compressor failure occurred two days after the car was returned from having the sensor replaced.

cheers

Dean

[deano]

I have found some information that may be useful for others who find themselves in a similar situation. (Note that I'm not a lawyer so don't rely on my summary below).

Depending on whether you purchased before 1 Jan 2011 your consumer rights are different. Before 1 Jan 2011, you are under the old warranties and guarantees regime of the Trade Practices Act. My understanding is that if they keep fixing it for you whilst under warranty, they meet their obligations.

If purchased after 1 Jan 2011 you are covered by Australian Consumer Law which gives additional consumer protections. From the ACCC website:

"If there is a major failure with the goods, you can:

reject the goods and get a refund
reject the goods and get an identical replacement, or one of similar value if reasonably available, or
keep the goods and get compensation for the drop in value caused by the problem.
You get to choose, not the supplier or manufacturer."

Also of interest is about warranties under the new ACL - from the ACCC website:

"Even after a voluntary or manufacturer’s warranty expires you may still be entitled to a repair, replacement or refund. This will depend on what you purchased and the nature of the problem."

For more info:

ACCC Website (http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/815215)

Cars Guide - Lemon Laws Protect You (http://www.carsguide.com.au/site/news-and-reviews/car-news/lemon_story)

Looking at the Lemon Story in the second link, it would appear that I'm stuck. Note that Land Rover made it into example 2.

Dean

[Stuart02]

Bummer for you but good info, mate.
A friend of mine ended up at VCAT (dont know if/what the QLD version is?) over car warranty issues, so there are extreme options, but its a bridge burning exercise for sure.

[ozscott]

It is outrageous that LR would not assist on Moreton Island - its hardly the ass end of the world. The beaches are designated roadways with speed limits. When I bought my D2 LR told me clearly that they would assist and if necessary recover the vehicle anywhere - including the islands on the beaches and dunes and muddy state forests etc...never needed that assistance though :D

If they sell a vehicle touted as the best offroader in the world they should support it off road...

Cheers

[mervwho]

It is outrageous that LR would not assist on Moreton Island - its hardly the ass end of the world. The beaches are designated roadways with speed limits. When I bought my D2 LR told me clearly that they would assist and if necessary recover the vehicle anywhere - including the islands on the beaches and dunes and muddy state forests etc...never needed that assistance though :D

If they sell a vehicle touted as the best offroader in the world they should support it off road...

Cheers

I was of the understanding that Land Rover Assist is anywhere..... I think you may have got had..

[discotwinturbo]

I was of the understanding that Land Rover Assist is anywhere..... I think you may have got had..

I will second that about LR assist......it's every in Australia, no exceptions according to the dealer. I questioned them about the csr....not a problem, they will come and you will not pay for the recovery!

Brett....

[deano]

I was of the understanding that Land Rover Assist is anywhere..... I think you may have got had..

I thought the same. When I originally looked at the Freelander 2, the dealer in Sydney said the 3 year warranty, roadside assist program was the best around. Breakdown or get stuck anywhere and they will come and save you. The conversation that followed was something like:

ME: "What about if I'm up out the back of Bamaga?"

DEALER: "Where?"

ME: "Its up the top of Queensland"

DEALER: "Oh. We would probably get the guys in Brisbane to come and sort out the problem"

I left it at that - wait a week for assistance!!!

Seriously though, the dealers do not seem to know what is and isn't covered and it is through this experience I have found out. When the car stopped on Moreton Is, Land Rover Assist said I was not covered for recovery there. I called the dealer who said that didn't sound right and he would follow it up. Dealer called back 45mins later and said Land Rover Assist was correct - no recovery. He was helpful however and had managed to track down the number of the guys at Bulwer who could get me back to the ferry.

If you don't believe it, look at the website.

Land Rover Roadside Assistance (http://www.landrover.com/au/en/lr/owners/warranty-and-assistance/roadside-assistance/)

"Service Area: An area in mainland Australia, Tasmania, Phillip Island and other areas that are trafficable by a two-wheel drive recovery vehicle or islands that are accessible by a two-wheel drive vehicle (excludes ferries)."

So no Fraser, no Moreton, no Rainbow or Stradie - just some of the most popular spots near where I live.

So my question to Land Rover is: What is the point of roadside assist recovery for an "all-terrain" vehicle when the recovery vehicle is only 2WD?

Answer: To help Dean out when his D4 breaks :D

So my advice to those who get to use their vehicles for what they are apparently designed for, get insurance that covers recovery in remote areas otherwise you may get a nasty surprise.

Dean

[Lotz-A-Landies]

..."Service Area: An area in mainland Australia, Tasmania, Phillip Island and other areas that are trafficable by a two-wheel drive recovery vehicle or islands that are accessible by a two-wheel drive vehicle (excludes ferries)."

So no Fraser, no Moreton, no Rainbow or Stradie - just some of the most popular spots near where I live.

...A reason Not to live in Queensland, all road ferries in NSW are free, including the one to Comerong Island near Nowra which only services 3 houses.

[Redback]

A reason Not to live in Queensland, all road ferries in NSW are free, including the one to Comerong Island near Nowra which only services 3 houses.

Except for the one from North Shore to Port Macquarie;)

Baz.

[101RRS]

So my advice to those who get to use their vehicles for what they are apparently designed for, get insurance that covers recovery in remote areas otherwise you may get a nasty surprise.

Dean

From a thread a few months back - there is no such insurance :(

[gghaggis]

I can understand the frustration, but if you try to look at your issues pragmatically:

* A steering leak - fixed promptly
* A burst hose - luck of the draw, like a puncture - did you have a hose repair kit?
* A entertainment screen malfunction - not exactly fatal, but annoying
* A crankshaft sensor - okay, that shouldn't fail, but at least it was found and rectified. Perhaps 5 days is a bit long for the repair (I don't believe so, but some might) - you could argue for some sort of compensation on a rental.
* A faulty compressor - known issue (especially for early builds) so would need replacing at some point.
* A screw-up delivering your car to the dealers from Moreton Island.

I don't really see anything there that screams "unfit for purpose"? I would say the last point is the annoying issue, and seems to be a communications process error between LRA, the dealers and the recovery crew.

I certainly wouldn't call your car a dud, and wouldn't doubt taking it anywhere. Maybe you should come to our Brissie seminar :)

As for Roadside assist - yes there are limits and will be for any policy, one should always read the fine print!

Cheers,

Gordon

[deano]

You're in Brissy so I assume you bought local. Which service dept do you go to? North or south of the river?

North side. I'm very happy with their service to date and if I decide to go down the Land Rover path again, it will be through these guys.

[deano]

I can understand the frustration, but if you try to look at your issues pragmatically:

* A steering leak - fixed promptly
* A burst hose - luck of the draw, like a puncture - did you have a hose repair kit?
* A entertainment screen malfunction - not exactly fatal, but annoying
* A crankshaft sensor - okay, that shouldn't fail, but at least it was found and rectified. Perhaps 5 days is a bit long for the repair (I don't believe so, but some might) - you could argue for some sort of compensation on a rental.
* A faulty compressor - known issue (especially for early builds) so would need replacing at some point.
* A screw-up delivering your car to the dealers from Moreton Island.

I don't really see anything there that screams "unfit for purpose"? I would say the last point is the annoying issue, and seems to be a communications process error between LRA, the dealers and the recovery crew.

I certainly wouldn't call your car a dud, and wouldn't doubt taking it anywhere. Maybe you should come to our Brissie seminar :)

As for Roadside assist - yes there are limits and will be for any policy, one should always read the fine print!

Cheers,

Gordon

OK - book me in for the seminar - I'll send separate email with my details.

The "maintenance and repairs" session might come in handy. :)

Dean

[ozscott]

I would say they might exclude recovering the vehicle if it was on fire Gordon but you can't keep a straight face and say it is reasonable that they only come to assist where it's 2wd access ...

Cheers

[ozscott]

I dont want to be inflammatory here, but how can LR keep stuffing up compressors. Ever since the P38A they have had compressors that have failed; D2, the same, D3 the same...surely by the D4 they could organise one that worked, but alas no. I get that vehicles can have problems, I really do, but why cant they just get compressors that work.

Cheers

[discotwinturbo]

But then again, would the fit for purchase under the ACL come in to play....I think that the LR should be fit to go 4wheel driving, and if not, LR should pick up the tab?

Brett.....

[gghaggis]

I would say they might exclude recovering the vehicle if it was on fire Gordon but you can't keep a straight face and say it is reasonable that they only come to assist where it's 2wd access ...

Cheers

Hang on, perhaps a little reality check here .........

Do you know of any manufacturer or road-side assist organisation that offers towing (which is what was required for the OP) in 4WD situations?? Just exactly how are you proposing LRA do it - buy a couple of hundred 4WD tow trucks and scatter them around the country?

Even then, of course it's reasonable to restrict it to "areas accessible to 2WD vehicles only". How is someone supposed to recover Chris Hummer (for instance!) stuck in the middle of a rain-forest? If his Rangie is stuck, how do you expect a tow truck to reach it??

There are individual recovery operators that will go the extra mile (the boys that run RAC recovery along the Gibb River Rd for example), and all kudos to them, but no one can give you a guarantee in all terrains that they can even reach you, let alone tow you out.

Obviously, a limit has to be set somewhere if you're giving a blanket guarantee. The limit is being on a gazetted track, in an area accessible to a 2WD recovery vehicle. Anyone going beyond that who is not organised for the possibility of breaking down is being irresponsible (I should add that this is something I've been guilty of more than a few times!!)

Cheers,

Gordon

[themalinators]

Lance Dixon at Doncaster in Melbourne are good when you annoy them often enough. I had leaking suspension on D4 and after 1 week off the road and the problems still persisiting I call Land Rover Austrlia and they were fantastic, organised loan car FOC, organised dealer and 3 weeks later car was ready and problem fixed- leaking cross-link and airbag. 200 series Land Cruisers are not what they pretend to be- mate's one was off the road for 8 weeks with buggered transmission and transfer case (brand new) and has to go to Sydney to Toyota- no one else is allowed to open up the transmissions. Also now speaker is blown, battery has gone flat, and at the end of the day it is $100k+ car that looks like a Camry inside and out! Don't be tempted they are no longer the 80 series we all think they are.:)

[Lotz-A-Landies]

AFAIK no roadside assist services covers bridge tolls or ferry fees, I know when NRMA took my RRc to a specialist repairer, they took my eTag off the screen and used it to pay the Bridge toll.

While I hate motorway tolls in Sydney, there is always another route you can take without the toll. What I find interesting is that the Qld government is happy to have roads and houses on places like Russell Island, and charge the residents rates and taxes, but turn around and refuse to provide access between the island and the rest of the Qld roads network.

Would LR Assist recover you from Frazer and other Qld islands if you paid the toll?

[ozscott]

Gordon I know what you are saying and no I dont know of any other manufacturer who offers this service - but I was promised by LR that they would get me on beaches etc as noted in the post above and it seems they no longer do that.

The point is that if the vehicles are to be used for what they are designed (and advertised) for they should be backed up....ie when they are failing.

They dont need to buy 4wd recovery trucks. They dont buy 2wd service vehicles - they rely, like very other manufacturer I can think of, on the RACQ, RACV etc - ie the automobile clubs in each state - to do the work for them. So for eg on Fraser Island the RACQ have access to tow truck operators (often seen with Cruiser on them :)) who have 4wd recovery slide trays that will go and get people who are stuck/broken down.

So LR can do it...they just choose not to because they are worried it will cost them too much...and in so doing they are letting people down. Most people would think that they would be assisted off road, but it would seem not to be the case (anymore).

Cheers

[gghaggis]

Gordon I know what you are saying and no I dont know of any other manufacturer who offers this service


Good, remember that statement.


So for eg on Fraser Island the RACQ have access to tow truck operators (often seen with Cruiser on them :)) who have 4wd recovery slide trays that will go and get people who are stuck/broken down.

And are these services used by Toyota/Nissan/LR? Or are they premium services? I got recovered out of a lake once, by a 4WD tow-truck, so yes, I know they're available. But it cost me $650 for a 10 min recovery. If Toyota can't afford it, how do you expect LR to?



So LR can do it...they just choose not to because they are worried it will cost them too much...and in so doing they are letting people down. Most people would think that they would be assisted off road, but it would seem not to be the case (anymore).
Cheers

Boy you really have it in for LR, don't you? No, I don't think they're letting people down - I think people's expectations for a "ROAD SIDE ASSISTANCE" service might be a little out of the ball-park. If your LR dealer told you he would personally recover you from the middle of some swamp, then hold him personally to it (and I hope you got it in writing). But you can't just pack a couple of cans of coke in the car and head off to the Simpson expecting to be collected when things go wrong.

I have clients who HAVE been recovered via LRA in desert situations, but that was down to the individual contractor's willingness to do it, not a corporate policy. No corporate assist package will cover you - and I don't think they could or can - but blame one, then blame them all, NOT just LR.

Cheers,

Gordon

[Piddler]

Maybe if you need 4wd recovery you should find some friends. :)

We have done many mad recoverys from way way down the west coast of Tassie. you just need a few mates and a sense of adventure. Our last 3 day weekend took 5 days with 2 trips to recover a Ford Bronco (big heavy American heap of rubbish). We had to return with parts and replace the whole rear axle assembly to tow out. Nothing like 110 kmh on a snatch strap.

There always great bonding sessions when the boys have to dig deep and pull together.

my 2 cents worth
Cheers

[ozscott]

It's absurd to say I have it in for .LR if you dropped down to the other boards and I own 2. I will make no.further adverse comments about .LR Gordon don't worry I know it gets you all defensive

Cheers

[scarry]

I know my D4 is only 6 months old,but it is the only LR i have ever bought new ( i have had 4 previously) that has not been back to the stealer with some type of issue in the first 6 months of ownership:)

[John W]

Good, remember that statement.


And are these services used by Toyota/Nissan/LR? Or are they premium services? I got recovered out of a lake once, by a 4WD tow-truck, so yes, I know they're available. But it cost me $650 for a 10 min recovery. If Toyota can't afford it, how do you expect LR to?



Boy you really have it in for LR, don't you? No, I don't think they're letting people down - I think people's expectations for a "ROAD SIDE ASSISTANCE" service might be a little out of the ball-park. If your LR dealer told you he would personally recover you from the middle of some swamp, then hold him personally to it (and I hope you got it in writing). But you can't just pack a couple of cans of coke in the car and head off to the Simpson expecting to be collected when things go wrong.

I have clients who HAVE been recovered via LRA in desert situations, but that was down to the individual contractor's willingness to do it, not a corporate policy. No corporate assist package will cover you - and I don't think they could or can - but blame one, then blame them all, NOT just LR.

Cheers,

Gordon

Beg to differ Gordon. Have you noticed the difference in price purchasing a D4 in Australia Vs the UK. They are price gouging off us, their poor antipode cousins. At least they could pretend to justify the difference by offering a comprehensive service, They would still have 5 figures of additional profit selling in Australia V UK

[Stuart02]

I would say they might exclude recovering the vehicle if it was on fire Gordon but you can't keep a straight face and say it is reasonable that they only come to assist where it's 2wd access ...

Cheers

Yeah, any gazetted road should be fair game, including Fraser Is beaches etc

[GregMilner]

Gordon's right. I think there needs to be a bit of reality checking here. First, these are VERY complex machines. Which in part is what makes them so capable. And also what makes them so pleasurable and desirable.
I've had more problems with my 2010 3.0 RRS than most. Next week, the dealer has it for a full week, doing a total engine replacement, after only 31,000km.
Yes, annoying. It's been with the dealer six times in the last six months. BUT...if you're polite, reasonable, understanding (hell, it's not THEIR product, they're just supporting it) and willing to work with them, I find they bend over backwards for you.
All cars have problems. I'll bet Toyota and Nissan owners could fill these forums with their vehicles' faults too.
But let's be thankful that Land Rover has become hugely profitable, and thus able and willing to support their owners to the nth degree.
My car must have cost LRA upwards of $35,000 in warranty work so far, without a squeak of protest or an ounce of push-back. You've got to give them credit for that. I've had lots of new cars over the years, and I've never had such absolute no-questions-asked service.
Sure, they're complicated, imperfect, sometimes infuriating, but always a marvel.
If you want completely trouble-free, brainless motoring, buy a Corolla. If you want something interesting, desirable, sometimes worrying, always rewarding, you've already got it.
And let's not forget, the issues and problems we're talking about here were par-for-the-course 30 or 40 years ago for even the most basic and simple of vehicles. LR vehicles are pushing the outside of the envelope with each new model. The price you pay for that is imperfection.

Anyhow, gotta go. There's a beige Camry I've got to look at...might even have cup-holders...

[Stuart02]

But that said, its not about what is reasonable for LRA to provide, its the misleading impression a lot of ppl seem to be getting from dealers, about the extent of the service.
I wouldn't have relinquished my RACV cover if they'd just said straight out that their roadside assist was only good within earshot of a coffee machine.
Why aren't they just subbing the Auto clubs anyway? They should be able to negotiate a bulk rate and be laughing. It's just odd.

[GregMilner]

Well, I think you have to take dealers' claims about extent of service with a tablespoon of salt. I mean, their job is to make a sale. Intelligence and a common sense will enable you to judge the reality of what a manufacturer can reasonably deliver. Sure, the dealer (er, salesman) might promise the moon, but it's nothing more than hearsay.
I broke down briefly off the Gibb River Rd last year. (It ended up being nothing more than a re-set) But I never expected LR to send in a Chinook to chopper the thing out.

[101RRS]

But that said, its not about what is reasonable for LRA to provide, its the misleading impression a lot of ppl seem to be getting from dealers, about the extent of the service.


The NRMA is no different - take out Premium Road Service and most of the Customer Service Staff will tell you it covers you anywhere but they really do not know - when you challenge them they go away and come back and tell you the real story (as me how I know). Not their fault they just to not know. Same as the dealers - they just do not what is really covered or not - you need to challenge them - I never take verbal answers for important issues any more.

I bet you did not read the fine print on the document covering the level of service that would be provided - most people don't.

garry

[Roger]

I have to say, read the contract. If it says they will get you from anywhere, then hold them to it. I don't think it does. When going into the bush, we can't expect the nanny state, public or private, to get us out of the trouble we have got ourselves into. We need to be self reliant, and if travelling solo or unprepared we have to hire some help and that costs $. I know I don't want my LR to be priced so that it covers the costs of recovering some people who can't be independent travellers. Its a bit like being taxed for other peoples dependence....mmm sounds like I'm on a soap box! I am not attacking anyone here, we just need to be able to recover ourselves, thats why travelling in a group is best, whether by 4x4 or bush walking, and being prepared with recovery, comms, first aid, know how, etc. I doubt I could fix anything really super electronic in my D4, normal mechanical stuff would probably be just OK, but thats the risk I take when I drive the car I choose......... because its fantastic! If I wanted to be in a lesser high tech vehicle I could drive an older Defender etc. and thats not a bad option for some people in super remote locations. I prefer the D4, and I will just bear the concequences, no one else will have to pay for my choices if I break down in a remote location.

[Stuart02]

I totally agree with being self-reliant and prepared, but roadside recovery is still meant to be your last resort line of defence.
When I lived in the NT I was a member of AANT for that reason. And I read the fine print. And I still carried belts, hoses etc etc, and a Sat phone.
The concept of insurance is that a lot of people pay a little and most don't ever use it. Even if LRA weren't subcontracting existing services to make it even cheaper, how much is a ferry toll to Moreton Is worth in customer relations?
This is, afterall, a company that fairly or otherwise is trying to shake off a reputation for unreliability.
Land Rovers are the only 4WDs I've ever wanted to own and drive and I'd forgive them the world. But seriously, the dealers are treading a fine line between making a sale, and putting a lot of people off the brand.

[deano]

In regards to the Land Rover Assist program - it is now provided by Allianz Global Assistance (they purchased Mondial Assistance who have the contract). They have their own network of service providers (tow companies etc) but also use the state car clubs extensively - just look at the card in the glove box (see photo).

I'm not sure what the difference in service levels from LRA to the car clubs is - would have to read through all the PDS etc.

As far as my dealer goes in regards to the team advising customers and potential customers about where LRA will help you, they were unaware of the 2wd recovery vehicle restrictions but knew that Fraser Is was not covered. I suggested that the team get educated about the product they are selling.

[gghaggis]

I think everyone should be aware that there can be a vast difference between what a dealer promises you, and what the manufacturer provides. That seems to be true for any brand, and I would have thought, self-evident? As I said before, if your dealer has personally promised to recover you from _anywhere_ under _any_ circumstances, then get it in writing and hold them to it. If they don't honour it, then by all means come on here, rant, rave, name-and-shame.

Despite what Ozscott may think, I'm no flag-waving, one-eyed LRA apologist, and I've had my fair share of arguing with them (the recovery point debacle 5 or so years ago comes to mind), to the point of having one of my cars black-listed by them! But I think it's ridiculous to try and hold them to a standard that is unattainable. There are two undeniable facts here:

1. LRA will recover you from any gazetted road on mainland Australia (plus a few other nominated places) as long as a 2WD recovery vehicle can reach you. They guarantee that.

2. LRA sub-contract this service out to local registered break-down agencies. It's a big country - they have to.

What is "unreasonable" about the above? The minute you change point 1's "2WD" to "4WD" recovery vehicle and "gazetted road" to "anywhere", you have agreed to the impossible - even the Australian Army couldn't guarantee that. Road-side assist is NOT meant to be your "last line of defence" - the last line of defence is you, and how prepared you are.

LRA (or Toyota, or Nissan or whoever) cannot determine, let alone dictate, what vehicles a local sub-contractor will have available, other than knowing that they must at least have the capability to recover from a road-side. So that is what they can reasonably depend on.

This is what I think Ozscott hasn't thought through. The cost of backing up a "4WD anywhere" service would bankrupt any Australian business, not just LR. It is completely illogical.

If you have your own pet location, where you know there are 4WD recovery services available, then just use them! If you _really_ think you have a case for LRA paying for that recovery, be proactive - contact someone like James Scrimshaw at LRA and discuss it.

Road-side Assist will provide "peace-of-mind" for any situation covered by the points above - you get that for free remember. If you're venturing further afield, then be prepared. As Roger said, I don't want to have to pay more for my LR just because someone thinks LRA should recover them from the Calvert Ranges for free.

Cheers,

Gordon

[Stuart02]

Road-side assist is NOT meant to be your "last line of defence" - the last line of defence is you, and how prepared you are.


My hat is truly off to you, Gordon! :)

[discotwinturbo]

Maybe you can enforce the ACL for repairs in the middle of nowhere...


Reasonable costs

If the consumer has no option but to
take goods elsewhere for repair, they do
not have to get the original supplier’s
agreement or provide quotes. However,
the supplier only has to pay the
‘reasonable costs’ of repair.
A reasonable cost would be within the
normal range charged by repairers of
such goods, and include:
> the cost of the repair
> any other associated costs
incurred by having the goods fixed
elsewhere, such as transport costs.


My dad has used this to get a full rebuild on his Isuzu truck. Radiator fan (shattered after being hit by something) somehow holed the radiator in his truck, in turn destroyed the motor. He only mentioned the ACL, and 3 days later Isuzu approved a full rebuild.

Not a bad outcome.

Interesting to see what happens over the coming years with ACL.

Brett.....

[ozscott]

If the vehicles have a good build and have a low failure rate recovering the odd one in the middle of nowhere is hardly going to break the manufacturers bank . I am not talking getting bogged I am talking things like engine failure. I can see why Ferrari or alfa isn't going to be paying to get your car if it breaks down on a beach at moreton island or Fraser hut I cant for the life of me see why if we want to use our genuine OFFROADER (wait for it...) OFFROAD breakdown (not 'bogdown') should not extend to that.

Cheers

[Mudrunner]

Mmmm smells like citrus to me!
My 2010 D4 has been superb for 52,000k. Apart from 2 cracked windscreens, I can't complain.

[gghaggis]

If the vehicles have a good build and have a low failure rate recovering the odd one in the middle of nowhere is hardly going to break the manufacturers bank . I am not talking getting bogged I am talking things like engine failure. I can see why Ferrari or alfa isn't going to be paying to get your car if it breaks down on a beach at moreton island or Fraser hut I cant for the life of me see why if we want to use our genuine OFFROADER (wait for it...) OFFROAD breakdown (not 'bogdown') should not extend to that.

Cheers

Are you really entirely missing my point, or just playing about? If you have ANY form of breakdown (bogged, engine, tyre, whatever) and you're on an isolated 4WD track, how is a tow-truck going to get to you?? Even if it's a 4WD truck, how can the operators guarantee that they'll be able to go where you've gone (and if you're driving a D4, that could be pretty out-there!!). Your thinking of only one situation - beach driving.

And note that the individual recovery crews would need to be certified for 4WD operations. Short of a Chinook, it's not feasible to extend free guaranteed recovery to 4WD situations. No manufacturer offers that service for free - why do you think LR should?

It's not the individual recoveries that would cost a company. It's the maintaining of the infrastructure such that you could guarantee it. For example, you can't have a single 4WD recovery crew "just in case" - suppose there are two recoveries required at the same time on opposite sides of the country? Your guarantee to recover would be expected to cover both of them.

From there, it doesn't take much cognitive effort to see that the argument extends to "x" number of 4WD recovery crews, until x is quite a sizeable number. So it's immaterial whether you're talking of one or hundreds of recoveries.

Cheers,

Gordon

[Stuart02]

The policy only covers 60km of free towing anyway, so its no skin off their bottom line where you are distance-wise...
I guess for starters recovery/remobilising due to bogging or mech failure, and actually towing/flatbedding out of remote country are different prospects.
I still don't know how Deano could have avoided calling the cavalry, and he was hardly out the back of Rudall NP...

[ozscott]

Again, no infrastructure necessary - they already contract to RACQ etc who have 4wd breakdown contractors. My argument is not confined to LR. You can cut it 3 ways from Sunday, but they should have assisted him at Moreton. Cheers


Ps

[gghaggis]

Again, no infrastructure necessary - they already contract to RACQ etc who have 4wd breakdown contractors. My argument is not confined to LR. You can cut it 3 ways from Sunday, but they should have assisted him at Moreton. Cheers


Ps

In what locations do RAC (Q, WA, SA etc) have 4WD breakdown contractors? And do RACQ provide this service for free? If so, then yes, you can argue that LRA could avail themselves of it, if the breakdown occurs in the stated covered areas.

If you can't be bothered reading the fine print, or just for peace of mind, ask Roadside Assist if they'll recover you BEFORE you head out to a particular area! Just like asking what's covered with any insurance policy. No point crying foul after the event - it rarely gets you anywhere.

How many people have actually read the assist policy? If you're going to depend upon it, don't you think you should?

Cheers,

Gordon

[ozscott]

No they are no free - RACQ charges LR for the tow, using approved contractors in remote areas, just like they charge back to LR for tarmac breakdowns - both the patrol that might attend and get the vehicle going (less and less likely these days) and tow trucks. Gone are the days of the average bod solving an off road breakdown themselves - vehicle are just so complex and often even the experts with all the gear have problems. I have expressed my opinion and dont think I can add to it. What I do know is that I would be bitterly annoyed and disappointed if I had spent some serious coin on a new Toyota, LR etc and took it over to Moreton (again hardly the arse end of the world) and it chucked a wobbly on the Western beach and (despite that you can see the skyscrapers of Brisbane) I was told sorry you are on your own until its back in 2wd territory.

Anyway, thats me done for this debate because clearly there will be differences of opinion about what the backup for a genuine 4wd vehicle should be.

Cheers

[gghaggis]

No they are no free - RACQ charges LR for the tow, using approved contractors in remote areas,

Cheers

Sorry, what I meant was - is the RACQ 4WD recovery free to RACQ members, or is there a premium paid for this service (implying that LRA would have to pay a premium to use it)? If it's free in this sense, AND it's within the LRA recovery area as defined in the policy, then I'd have to agree that there seems no reason why LRA shouldn't use the service.

Otherwise, well its a free service voluntarily provided by LRA so there isn't really a basis for arguing on whether it's suitable or not - "gifthorse" and "mouth" come to mind.

I have the RAC roadside assist, as well as my free LRA one - never used RAC, but I doubt it would give me any more coverage than LRA, and I have to pay for it!

The WAULRO'ians have compiled an emergency contact list of LR owners around WA who are willing to help out a stranded LR owner (PM LandyAndy if you want a copy of the list). I don't know if any of the other state groups have this, but's it's something worth looking into.

Cheers,

Gordon