Soundproofing 93 Defender?

[fender22]

Hi there, love my old girl and she's in wonderful nick but the noise!
Is there anyway I could insulate the road noise, something relatively easy and cheap?

[munro]

Leave your old girl at home.:wasntme:

[BigBlackDog]

I've been looking at the same thing for a little while. Noise doesn't worry me normally but gets a bit tiresome for the family.

Have a read of this guys site: Sound Deadener Showdown - Your Source for Sound Deadening Products and Information (http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi) from what I can gather you need 3 things - vibration dampening (stop the panels resonating), a sound barrier and a isolation layer for the barrier. Not sure what to get for vibration dampening yet, but I'm thinking for the other 2 a layer of 3 - 5mm closed cell foam with a layer of Jaycar AX3680 on top of that. Heavy Duty Sound Barrier Damping Material - Improved - Jaycar Electronics (http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=AX3680)

I'm guessing that it wouldn't be as good as Dynamat or Noisekiller premoulded stuff but this will be cheaper, if a lot more effort. Good excuse for :beer:

[Nera Donna]

Easy? Relatively, but very time consuming.
Cheap? Not really. But that will all depend on where you get your materials from.
I went down the Dynamat route. Dynamat Superlite on the floor and the rear quarter panels.
Laid ½” Dynaliner over the quarter panel sections and carpet on top of that.
I’ve only completed the cargo area so far. Hopefully get some time to complete the rest of the vehicle sometime soon?
Result: Not bad. It’s not Mercedes or BMW quite by any stretch of the imagination, but I personally think it’s worth the effort.

[lebanon]

Is Dynamat a kind of closed cell foam with a glued aluminum foil?


Easy? Relatively, but very time consuming.
Cheap? Not really. But that will all depend on where you get your materials from.
I went down the Dynamat route. Dynamat Superlite on the floor and the rear quarter panels.
Laid ½” Dynaliner over the quarter panel sections and carpet on top of that.
I’ve only completed the cargo area so far. Hopefully get some time to complete the rest of the vehicle sometime soon?
Result: Not bad. It’s not Mercedes or BMW quite by any stretch of the imagination, but I personally think it’s worth the effort.

[DeanoH]

Is Dynamat a kind of closed cell foam with a glued aluminum foil?

No. Dynamat Xtreme is about 1.5mm thick Butyl rubber with a heavy aluminum foil backing. (all up about 1.6mm thick). Very effective sound dampener/deadener. Also quite popular with the young blokes to line their 1000 dB sound powered Commodores.

Dynamat makes other products as well.

Deano :)

[zwitter]

OK generally sound deadening products do not get rid of the sound, they just lower its frequency. Ideally you need to physically isolate the inner cab from the body, not practical.

But you can do quite a bit to make it much better.

The best products are mass loaded vinyl products. The seat box cover in Defender is made of this. I think they use barium? It is heavy. And not cheap.

I bought about 50 self adhesive pads like the ones at supa cheap from Sika and covered the firewall, seatbox, seatbox lids, transmission tunnel, rear and front floor. Made a difference in lowering the resonant frequency of panels so no audible drumming and a bit quieter. But I wanted more.

I bought product from a company in western sydney (girraween?) who did the army defenders. It is designed to go under floor boards in apartments and consists of a thick sheet of barium loaded vinyl and a wavey rubber. It is about12mm thick. I laid this on floors up firewall, transmission tunnel, seatboxes, back of cab (130) stuck it to inside of the roof metal.
I still intend to get more sticky sheets and put them inside the door skins, behind dash, inside the air flaps and under the cubby box.
if you want to get technical you can use a dB meter (can get a phone app) and seriously technical with a spectrum analyser!

I spent $1000 and can hold a conversation at110kph

I also changed TC gears for 1:2. And installed a 12" sub and stereo

The only noise i hear now I think is from rear diff and it is transmitted through the chassis. Working on that.

James

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Moon.dog62]

Turn up the radio:p

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Headphones and an intercom system!

[Dougal]

Panel deadener = roof flashing tape.
Insulation (decoupling) layer = closed cell foam
Top layer = carpet or vinyl. Works best with a barrier rather than woven materials.

[Nera Donna]

Dynamat Xtream and Dynamat Superlite are a self-adhesive, ‘tar like’ substance with an aluminum foil backing.
Dynaliner and Dynapad are a ‘closed cell’ like material.
The company recommends to install the Dynamat first and then if you so wish, the Dynaliner or pad over that.
Their web site product information is more car orientated, nothing really on 4wd applications. So I E-mailed the parent company with a few questions regarding my application. They we’re quite helpful.
There are a heap of different products on the market, some are cheaper and some are more expensive.
Personal choice really.
I bought my materials on eBay through a couple of different vendors in the states.
Watch the shipping costs! Work out the total cost before choosing, even with the Aussie vendors. The shipping costs can almost be as expensive as the materials themselves with the overseas vendors.
As zwitter said the ‘tar like substance’ lowers the resonating noise transmitted through the metal. It doesn’t actually lower the sound level (for want for a better word). Hard to understand I know but you can get your head around it eventually. The ‘closed cell’ like material will lessen the sound or noise level inside the vehicle. Hence the recommendation to use the two products together.
Hope this helps some. I know I had a hell of a time working it all out when I did mine.
Cheers

[jerryd]

I recently carried out lots of work to my seatbox and surrounding areas. The main objective was additional storage and secondly soundproofing.

Both have turned out far better than I expected and total cost was under $100.00 :) I'm going to do doors, roof etc. as I get to them

I got my inspiration from this video

4.3 Chevy V6 in a Series Rover - Part 10 - YouTube

[GyroLandy]

I'm busy with soundproofing mine nowm Double layer Dynamat on floor and firewall with 8mm thermotec closed cell foam with marine carpet on top. Also dit inside of doors.

[Albert]

One of the biggest improvments on mine was the bonnet.
Before that I had lined with closed cell most of the cab, even the brake pedal box and heater housing.
After reading some posts a few months ago I wound out the fuel screw on the Isuzu, that seemed to make the moter quieter as well.

[Jode]

The trick is to introduce a dense material between the noise source and you and your family. The products described above sound (sorry...) great.

When trying to reduce noise coming into our 110, we fit dense matts under the carpets, and also pulled the head liner off and glued some fairly dense acoustic insulation batts to the underside of the roof. I suspect that the products above would provide better sound insulation than the batts that we used, but as we had them left over from a fan duct installation in our house we used them.

[Mudnut]

Hi Fender,

I have a related post in the "Projects and Tutorials" listed as "Sound Insulation for Defender" There are some photo's, and related photo's from others. It has made a difference for my Defender in noise, but more importantly in the heat transmitted through the transmission tunnel, and surrounds. Makes a big difference up north ;) A time consuming project, but well worth the time and effort.

Cheers,
Ken

[Michael2]

I've just ordered the Wright Off Road / Exmoor Trim acoustic mat system for the seat box, front floor and firewall - after 15 years of wanting to get it.

I've also ordered a sound meter.

I hope to conduct some before / after noise level tests and also see how extra under bonnet insulation or panel deadening contributes to sound reduction.

Hopefully I can contribute to this discussion with some numbers in a couple of weeks.

[flagg]

Headphones and an intercom system!

haha I actually do this for long trips as I've often got these in the 110 anyway.

David Clark Company H10-13X (http://www.davidclark.com/HeadsetPgs/h10-13x.htm)

[MLD]

my 2 cents worth based on installing insulation over the weekend

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/155626-sound-insulation-defender.html

cheers MLD

[Dougal]

EVA foam was the product I couldn't remember earlier. It's a closed cell polyethelene foam which is light, waterproof and works excellently as a decoupling layer between your deadeners and your interior trim.

Before I found the EVA foam I stripped out my work car (incl dash) and did two layers of roof-flashing tape (modified bitumen/butyl with foil backing) right over the firewall.
It went from being very noisey to being able to hear rain hitting the windshield.

I have since done the back of the car with the flashing tape and EVA foam cover. The result is better than the front, particularly on road noise. This means at some stage I need to pull the seats and carpet again to put a layer of EVA foam over the firewall, floor and tunnel.

[AdsLandies]

Have attempted to make my Isuzu Landy quieter, and have managed to make it more bearable.
Used Dynamat extreme on the inside of the bulkhead, over the front seat boxes, and over the rear wheel arch boxes. Then covered all of this with carpet.
Stuck 10mm thick 'Formshield' (self adhesive closed cell foam with silver lining) over engine side of bulkhead. Also removed the headling on the roof and stuck this over the entire inside of the roof.
Under the floor carpet mats added additional closed cell foam (like the stuff camping mats is made of).
Under the bonnet, have formshield type foam stuck to the panel, and added a genuine underbonnet sound deadener on top of this.
Fair bit of work, and not sure what it all ended up costing, but can now even hear people sitting in the rear cargo area now. I could barely have a conversation with the passenger in the front seat before this.
Still have to raise your voice a bit though, and it is still noisy compared to most other vehicles.
Bonus is the heat reduction in the cab.

[Dougal]

Under the floor carpet mats added additional closed cell foam (like the stuff camping mats is made of).

This is the EVA foam I was talking about earlier. I keep forgetting most people know it as camping mat foam.:angel:

Best results come from it laid loose so you can use the air gap behind and between for some extra insulation. It's great stuff and quite cheap too.

[MLD]

Has anyone gone to the trouble of measuring the ambient temp under normal driving conditions under the bonnet. Most of the EVA foil backed products are rated to about 100 dec C. I would imagine the temp immediately above the turbo would be well above that. No point installing it if it disintegrates from the heat.

I have a engine management temp monitor with the external sensor. I might position it under the bonnet above the turbo as an experiment.

The other issue that just occurred to me about installing heat/sound shielding under the bonnet is the fact that the alloy bonnet would conduct heat efficiently thus dissipating the under bonnet heat. Add shielding to the bonnet, to my mind, would trap the heat. Or does the air flow under the bonnet make the problem negligible? Therefore benefits outweigh the negatives.

cheers MLD

[Dougal]

I would keep EVA foams inside. Any turbo/exhaust heat is going to be well over 100C. I also like to keep foams away from the engine bay as they become stamp-pads if oil gets on them.

Underbonnet my approach has been to simply stop rattles. On my work-car (not a defender) I used expanding foam between the bonnet frame and skin as a deadener. It worked.

[Michael2]

....The other issue that just occurred to me about installing heat/sound shielding under the bonnet is the fact that the alloy bonnet would conduct heat efficiently thus dissipating the under bonnet heat. Add shielding to the bonnet, to my mind, would trap the heat. Or does the air flow under the bonnet make the problem negligible? Therefore benefits outweigh the negatives.

cheers MLD

The under bonnet insulation will work well to reduce noise. While some heat will be retained, I think the fact that the fan maintains an airflow over the engine even at low speeds, should be enough to see heat / air dissipated under the car. I had 10mm dense closed cell foam on the SIII, with no overheating issues, and I'm sure the Defender runs cooler.

Having said that, vented bonnets are good for reducing engine bay heat, so I suppose it depends what your main concern is, if your'e doing heavy work in 50 degree heat, then heat dissipation may be more important that sound reduction.

On a similar heat issue, I've got a friend with a PUMA who gets a lot of heat from the exhaust that runs just under the drivers footwell. We were thinking that a scoop on the RH guard might direct air flow down over the inner guard and past the RH footwell, helping to dissipate heat. Just a RH version of the heater air scoops often put on the LH guard.

[davep130]

Hi michael 2

Re your puma heat issue I tried a number of options to redirect flow and install heat shields with out much success. Recently I removed the cat and results so far are dramatic. Whilst it is winter a recent 2 hour highway run that would normally lead to a hot footwell was fine.

[nedflanders]

My 90 Td5 is off to get steam cleaned and undersealed next week, I decided to take off the plastic guards under the engine (pain in the arse,had to drop the prop and anti-roll bar) and gearbox. Do these serve any real purpose in reducing noise levels as I'm tempted to leave them off? All they seem to do is trap dirt! Plus the foam is knacked after a fuel regulator leak:(

[Michael2]

The Wright / Exmoor moulded matting arrived last week and the sound meter arrived a few days later.

Today was the first sunny day in Melbourne for awhile, and it coincided with a day off work for me.

It's now in the car, so I'll have some freeway speed testing in the morning on the way to work.

I've got the Dolium / Frontrunner safe under the cubby, so that was anothe big hole I had to cut, but I insulated it both inside and out with the foil backed butyl stuff from Jaycar, so hopefully that maintains the integrity of the insulation barrier.

Some trimming had to be done to accomodate the A/C unit, and the A/C kick panel needs the square bottom edges rounded off to fit in again.

I'll update tomorrow with sound data.

[samuelclarke]

The Wright / Exmoor moulded matting arrived last week and the sound meter arrived a few days later.
...
I'll update tomorrow with sound data.

Be very interested in how much of a difference the matting makes for you as I'm looking at it also.

[Michael2]

Be very interested in how much of a difference the matting makes for you as I'm looking at it also.

Sorry about the delay in getting figures to you. On the first day the accelerator stop needed to be wound out to accomodate for the mat, so I couldn't get a good throttle going on the way to work. Peak hour and slow traffic didn't help on the way back.

So far idle noise measures the same (55db) as before, but feels quieter.

Accelerating up hill at 80kph is at 73db, down from around 76db.

100kph is around 76db down from 78db.

What I'm going to do is make up a comparison table using the TD5D2a HSE auto as a benchmark of a relatively quiet diesel.

I'll compare a standard and insulated 110SW at

IDLE
60kph
80kph Cruise
80kph Uphill Accelerator
100kph

The next phase will be to remove the bonnet insulation, fit foam against the bonnet, and refit the original on top, as most of the noise now seems to be coming from the front.

I'd also like to do under the roof lining and the doors. Hopefully I can get a mate with a standard 110SW to come over and do the comparo over the w'end.

[Michael2]

Be very interested in how much of a difference the matting makes for you as I'm looking at it also.

Apart from noise I think it will make a big difference to summer heat.

On the last trip to the Pilbara, I noted that with the windows up and the A/C on the cab cooled a bit, but as soon as the windows were wound down, I could feel hot air rushing in through the seat box, like it was being sucked in by a venturi effect. The parts of the seatbox that were bare metal were hot (not burning) to touch.

Without a radiator battling my A/C, I think I should get cooler A/C. The problem with the Defender's A/C is not the temp, as it gets very cold, but that the fan speed doesn't match the internal volume of the vehicle, which means the back doesn't feel cool in hot weather, even though the front passenger is freezing.

I've also ordered the new door seals that fit on the bottom of the doors and come up in a U shape. That will allow me to remove the seal on the floor, and make sweeping out the floor a lot easier, as well as sealing the door better.

[wilga]

following this thread with interest , i am going to do my 130 dc i have been looking at fatmat / similar to dynamat . michael2 do you have a part number for the u shaped door seals

[Michael2]

... michael2 do you have a part number for the u shaped door seals

p/n LR029309 - Britpart Link Britcar (UK) Ltd > LR029309 DOOR WEATHERSTRIP LOWER FRONT DEF (G) (http://www.brit-car.co.uk/product.php?xProd=181670)

At this stage only available for the front doors, I need to see if Land Rover have the rear door ones as a genuine item.


I've already bought two sets for mates, there was a mix up with my last order and I didn't get my set, but they're now on their way. They look like a good fit and seal the bottom door corners, that the original seals weren't good at doing.

I got mine from Parts and Accessories for Landrover and 4x4 (http://www.foundry4x4.co.uk/) they have been good with pricing at freight.

oops - my supplier didn't have the back door seals, but Britpart have them http://www.brit-car.co.uk/product.php?xProd=182674, I'll see if I can get them locally.

[Dockstrada]

I have been building an SL/R Torana and have just fitted some sound proofing it has a 383 stroker with 510hp so this was an important , it has made a huge impact on the cabin noise.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/08/742.jpg

[Bigbjorn]

Went through this supplying small earthmoving equipment to the coal mines. Poor little darlings can't be exposed to a daily noise dose over 95 dba. Foil faced and lead filled closed cell foam is best and the most expensive. We had to get a consulting engineer in and much design work and modification was required including running the hot cooling air out through upwards slanting louvres lined with foil faced foam to deaden some of the fan noise. One type of machine the operator sits with a diesel engine at his back and a hydraulic pump train under his feet, an hydraulic motor at each hip. Bugger of a thing to quieten. We got down to 98 and the mine engineer agreed there was nothing else we could do that might work. He was on our side. The machines were urgently needed and only after he was in contact with the mine operations was he told they are only used for 45 minutes to 1 hour 3-4 times a week. Everybody off site was under the impression they were used more or less continuously for two shifts a day. Much swearing as the daily noise dose was recalculated. Much work did not need to have been done as the daily dose was well down on the permissible. Machines were signed off and despatched.

We did learn a lot though.

[wilga]

thoughts on this ? acoustiblokau.com.au/ should be good if it matches the claimed figures

[Dougal]

thoughts on this ? acoustiblokau.com.au/ should be good if it matches the claimed figures

It's a building product, so you'd have to check it's okay with temperatures it may see in a vehicle and I have no idea how flexible/shapable it would be.

But as a mass layer it could work very well on top of insulation which is on top of the deadened sheet-metal.

[Michael2]

It's taken me awhile, and I still haven't got all the comparative figures, but here are some sound level readings.

OUTSIDE OF VEHICLE

Bonnet Open, sound meter just above the radiator.

TD5 80dB
300Tdi 81dB (79dB after a long run)

Bonnet Closed (sound meter in same position)

TD5 D2a with standard factory insulation 69dB
300Tdi with standard factory insulation 72dB
300Tdi with acoustic mat fitted under the factory insulation 67dB

INSIDE OF VEHICLE

TD5 D2a @ Idle 50dB
300 Tdi @ Idle (with Exmoor Acoustic Floor Mat only) 55dB
300 Tdi @ Idle (with Exmour Floor Mat & extra under bonnet insulation) 55dB

I've got driving figures for the 300Tdi 110SW with the Exmoor Trim (but no extra under bonnet insulation). As soon as I get the comparative figures with the under bonnet insulation, and the standard 110SW, and the TD5D2a (benchmark), I'll add those.

But just as a sample, if I rev the 300Tdi (with acoustic floor mat) to 3,000rpm in neutral (stationary) the cabin noise (prior to extra bonnet insulation) was 76dB. Driving the car at 100kph in 5th with the Roverdrive engaged the sound level was 74dB, suggesting most of the noise is coming from the engine, and not road / transmission, so that's where to concentrate the sound control effort. Incidently tyres are Michellin LTX AT2 - a quiet AT.

It does sound quieter in the cab driving with the bonnet insulation, though idle readings haven't changed, but I haven't yet done a quiet run (radio off - sound meter on) to gets figures.

[MLD]

Michael - I couldn't quite work out your under bonnet insulation from the various posts. In summary, what product did you use, what coverage area. Did you use multiple products and how did you layer (integrate) them. Did you pay any particular attention to any areas. What glue did you use.

I did an install in the cabin a few weeks back but ran out of product. I raised a post in the projects section on the forum. I'm re-stocked with sound deadener, EVA foam and 500 deg heat insulation matting. This weekend i'm going to tackle the bonnet and floor of the rear seat. I plan to lay the butyl insulation against the bonnet then a layer of eva 6 mm foam and then the heat matt. All up about 12 mm of insulation.

If you learned any lessons under the bonnet I'd be interested.

cheers Mark

[Michael2]

Sorry, I didn't make it clear.

Under the bonnet I used a mat with open cell foam, a loaded vinyl sheet layer and an aluminium face. I wasn't keen on open cell, but decided to buy this as an off-cut to try it out. It's a Bus / Marine engine bay insulator, usually $75 p/m. I got a couple of meters of off-cuts for $50 to try it out.

I removed the felt insulation, padded the hollows of the bonnet with this stuff, then put the felt pad back on using self tapers instead of pop rivets. Because it's in the experimental phase, I didn't glue it, but it's still snug. I'll see how it fares after I go through some puddles in the next rain, before deciding on it.

It does demonstrate though that extra under bonnet insulation can easily exceed the D2 standard (front of car) and go a way toward improving things.

Powering uphill at 80kph today was 72dB.

I probably won't get time till next week now to do all the sound testing, but I think a firewall cover would also help greatly, the D2 has a 10-15mm foam over the whole firewall.

[landoman]

Have fitted dynamat to the rear of my 110 .......now want to do the front

Figured out how to get the two seats out and the rubber floor lining .....but the part of the rubber floor lining that sits up under where the clutch .brake and accelerator pedal looks complicated to remove ..........any one done this ?

Also there is a large plastic cover many screws in it around the gear levers area.
Is it worth removing that to fit the dynamat or just work around it ?

Many thanks

[BigBlackDog]

The mat around the pedals just pulls out from memory, or it may be retained by the thin metal strip at the top. Wasn't hard. I reinforced my sound foam with some thin tin to keep it stiff, bit fiddly cutting slots to go around pedals but patients make it ok.

Definitely get that cover of around the gearbox tunnel, it ok to undo but you gotta get the fuse box cover off to remove it I seem to recall.

The other place I wouldn't miss is the bulkhead around the fuse box. I unscrewed the fuse panel and put sound foam (not dynamat) behind it directly on the bulkhead. That made a big difference because there is a good few holes in the bulkhead, they let heaps of noise through if they aren't sealed properly.

Oh, mines a 300tdi not sure how different others are, probably not greatly