Series 3 Engine rebuild

[normbourne]

Ihave just pulled my engine down, and there is a ridge at the top of the cylinders.
There appears to be about. O.05 inches diff between the worn and unworn diameters.
At what point should consider a rebore...?

I,m wondering if a hone and new rings should do the trick...??

Any advice lads..?

Tanks & regards,

Norm.

[drifter]

I went the rebore route (I had a lip, too) and ended up going from factory original to 40 thou over.

[VK3UTE]

G'day Norm.

If you have come this far you might as well go for the rebore, it's not a very expensive exercise and she will last for another 30 years. :)

[Homestar]

Although a rebore may be the way to go, you may get away with it if you are on a tight budget. I would check to see if the bores are worn further down, as it may have only worn the top of the bores. When we didn't have the $$$ for a rebore, we would cut the lip off the top of the bore, give it a good hone, then check the ring gaps before reassembly with the old pistons. We found that in some instances, we could use oversize rings with just a file of the ring ends to make sure minimum clearances are maintained all the way down the bore.

This is a bit dodgey mind you, and it will rattle like a bitch when cold, but we have done this to a few vehicles many moons ago when required and they have run ok, and lasted fine. By the way - none were Landy engines, but the theory is the same. We did this to some Holden 202's, a pre crossflow ford engine, and some Jap stuff - all were fine.

If you have the cash, go the rebore.:)

[normbourne]

Hi Guys,
Many thanks, I have just revisited the measurements and have revised them as follows:
The ridge at the top of the cylinders, doesnt appear to be as bad as at first thought...!
There now appears to be about. O.008
inches diff between the worn and unworn diameters.
These measurements were taken on No.4 cylinder, fore and aft.
Actual measurements, unworn from the manual, 3.562, and worn 3.570.
The worn measurements were taken, at the top of the cylinder, just below the ridge.
Upon reflection does this now make ridge removal, and new standard rings a possibility...?

[Homestar]

Sounds like you could get away with that. What is the ring gap supposed to be on these engines? - I don't have the specs.

[normbourne]

Hi lads, sorry about delay i got myself into a bit of trouble with a couple Of heart attacks.

Anyway because the ozzy dollar is so high, It proved to be economical to import a short engine from the UK. Great gear presently building with bits off the old engine, Albeit slowly slowly.

I am now investigating hall effect conversion of the distributor, using the the hkz 101 Sensor,
Which are readily available. The prob is the rotating vane.

Any ideas guys.?

Norm.

[normbourne]

I was about to put the head on when I noticed that the fit of the head gasket was such that there was a substantial space between the cylinder edge and the edge of the gasket on the right hand side.

I spoke to the supplier and he assured me it was ok, but I am of the opinion that a void will be created, between the cylinder and the cylinder heard, and carbon will soon form and become a problem during combustion, eg. Pre-ignition etc.

What do you guys think..?

[Ozdunc]

Seems like the gaskets are like this
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/1085.jpg
Photo of banjos engine rebuild

I'm not too clued up on the dynamics of combustion, but wouldn't carbon only form if the air/fuel ratio was too rich rather than due to the shape of the combustion chamber?

[ian4002000]

May I suggest putting Hylomar on the head gasket both sides. It will assist sealing and is easily removeable when required.

[normbourne]

Seems like the gaskets are like this
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/1085.jpg
Photo of banjos engine rebuild

I'm not too clued up on the dynamics of combustion, but wouldn't carbon only form if the air/fuel ratio was too rich rather than due to the shape of the combustion chamber?
The gasket that came off, was copper and yes there was a gap, but with the new gasket, which is made of some composite material, the gap is more extensive, indeed, there are places where the gap approaches 10-12mm.

I take your point regarding mixture carbon/combustion chamber, but surely it would be good policy to reduce this gap as much as possible, particularly between cylinders, which is always a particularly vulnerable area..?

[normbourne]

Hey lads,

I am trying to source a set of head bolts to suit a series 3, 4 cylinder petrol engine.
I've managed to get the majority of them but the ones I am looking for are the, four short ones, located near the spark plugs.
I thought that maybe high tensile bolts from a local supplier would suffice,
But apparently, high tensile bolts have different grades.

So the question is, where can I locate the original manufacturers bolts, or failing that, what grade high tensile bolts do I need.
Thanks,
Norm.

[isuzurover]

Hey lads,

I am trying to source a set of head bolts to suit a series 3, 4 cylinder petrol engine.
I've managed to get the majority of them but the ones I am looking for are the, four short ones, located near the spark plugs.
I thought that maybe high tensile bolts from a local supplier would suffice,
But apparently, high tensile bolts have different grades.

So the question is, where can I locate the original manufacturers bolts, or failing that, what grade high tensile bolts do I need.
Thanks,
Norm.

What is wrong with your old bolts? They should be reusable...

As for the head gasket, what brand is it?

[normbourne]

What is wrong with your old bolts? They should be reusable...

As for the head gasket, what brand is it?

Actually the block is a remanufactured short engine so there is no problems concerning threads in the block. The original bolts have 65 V 75 stamped on the heads.....?? and they are indeed stretched in that they are extremely loose in the threads. Incidentally, the cylinder is also a remanufactured unit, supplied by turners in the UK. so obviously I'm pretty keen to get things right..!

As regards the head gasket it is a Payen composite

[isuzurover]

Actually the block is a remanufactured short engine so there is no problems concerning threads in the block. The original bolts have 65 V 75 stamped on the heads.....?? and they are indeed stretched in that they are extremely loose in the threads. Incidentally, the cylinder is also a remanufactured unit, supplied by turners in the UK. so obviously I'm pretty keen to get things right..!

As regards the head gasket it is a Payen composite

The bolts should be fine to reuse. When bolts stretch they stretch at the shank, not the threads,,,

I have only ever used copper head gaskets. Liberally coated with VHT copper gasket cement - and never had a problem.

[normbourne]

The bolts should be fine to reuse. When bolts stretch they stretch at the shank, not the threads,,,

I have only ever used copper head gaskets. Liberally coated with VHT copper gasket cement - and never had a problem.



The old bolts are extremely loose in their threads whereas the new bolts I did manage to obtain, fit fine in the new block, so obviously, I don't think there is a problem there in terms of the block being tapped metric.

As I say, I am only missing the four short bolts for the complete set..!

[stevep]

Hi,
I think it's land rover part 273356 which has been superseded by 279648. 1/2" x 2.5/16 long UNF.

google land rover 279648 gets plenty of hits in the UK. Or ring Four wheel drives in melb or Rover parts plus in Ballarat.

HTH's
Steve

[normbourne]

Hi lads,

In the process of my rebuild, I've struck trouble with a new clutch kit.

I went to fit it only to discover that the cover plate supplied, only has provision for two locating dowels, diametrically opposite, whereas my flywheel has THREE locating dowels, equidistant around the perimeter.

I've attempted to drill the two holes in the cover to line up, but of course the accuracy is questionable..!

On checking my order, it would appear that the part that arrived was to suit, series 1 & series 2.

Is there a difference between the series 2 & the series 2a..? I always thought they were the same.

Any ideas guys..?

Norm.

[mick88]

What year is your 2A?
I think late 2A and 3 are the same.
So maybe that is your problem.


Cheers, Mick.

[JDNSW]

Hi lads,

In the process of my rebuild, I've struck trouble with a new clutch kit.

I went to fit it only to discover that the cover plate supplied, only has provision for two locating dowels, diametrically opposite, whereas my flywheel has THREE locating dowels, equidistant around the perimeter.

I've attempted to drill the two holes in the cover to line up, but of course the accuracy is questionable..!

On checking my order, it would appear that the part that arrived was to suit, series 1 & series 2.

Is there a difference between the series 2 & the series 2a..? I always thought they were the same.

Any ideas guys..?

Norm.

The standard cover plate(GCC127) fits a 9" plate and uses coil springs and has two dowels. The clutch cover assembly for a 9.5" plate (GCC112) was optional equipment, and has three dowels. This assembly has a diaphragm spring, with a large number of fingers instead of three, and with a steel ring over them held by three tangential spring arms (if it has a diaphragm spring and does not have this ring it is a Series 3 cover (576557), and is no good to you!).

The six had the same clutch as the 9.5" optional one. The 9.5 optional clutch was the same for petrol and diesel fours as well as being standard for the six.

Your flywheel probably is drilled for the three dowels as well as for the two dowels, so you could convert to a 9.5" clutch. (dowels are 502116)

Hope this helps.

John

[normbourne]

The standard cover plate(GCC127) fits a 9" plate and uses coil springs and has two dowels. The clutch cover assembly for a 9.5" plate (GCC112) was optional equipment, and has three dowels. This assembly has a diaphragm spring, with a large number of fingers instead of three, and with a steel ring over them held by three tangential spring arms (if it has a diaphragm spring and does not have this ring it is a Series 3 cover (576557), and is no good to you!).

The six had the same clutch as the 9.5" optional one. The 9.5 optional clutch was the same for petrol and diesel fours as well as being standard for the six.

Your flywheel probably is drilled for the three dowels as well as for the two dowels, so you could convert to a 9.5" clutch. (dowels are 502116)

Hope this helps.

John

Thanks John,

The original plate is definitely 9", is it possible therefore that the 9.5" plate could also be fitted....?

I will certainly check to see if there is provision to fit the diametrically, two pin arrangement, but then if that is the case I will have remove the two, now obsolete dowels..?

Thanks again,

Norm.

Ps I reckon the vehicle was made about 1967, but it is not the original engine..!

[JDNSW]

.......
The original plate is definitely 9", is it possible therefore that the 9.5" plate could also be fitted....?

If the flywheel is drilled for the three dowels, no problems should arise.

I will certainly check to see if there is provision to fit the diametrically, two pin arrangement, but then if that is the case I will have remove the two, now obsolete dowels..?

Thanks again,

Norm.

Ps I reckon the vehicle was made about 1967, but it is not the original engine..!

If you fit the larger clutch, then the two pins for the 9" clutch will need to be removed - I have never noted whether they are on the same radius, but I assume they are not.

John

[normbourne]

Thanks John,

The original plate is definitely 9", is it possible therefore that the 9.5" plate could also be fitted....?

I will certainly check to see if there is provision to fit the diametrically, two pin arrangement, but then if that is the case I will have remove the two, now obsolete dowels..?

Thanks again,

Norm.

Ps I reckon the vehicle was made about 1967, but it is not the original engine..!

Hey John,

Checked the flywheel and does look as though it is drilled as per your advice.

but what I can't believe is that they have the dowels in stock in Melbourne, so I should get get them tomorrow.

So well done mate, you've saved the day.

Thanks again

Norm.

[HUE166]

Norm, Did you paint your head and block?

[mick88]

Norm I am assuming that by now you have sourced head bolts and got your engine back together. On the off chance you are still chasing bolts I know that some people source bolts for Holden engines from Cat.
They may also have the correct size bolts for your needs.


Cheers, Mick.