D3 wheel alignment

[smwilk]

I had a 4 wheel alignment done today. Rear camber final settings were LH -0.2 Degrees and RH -0.8 degrees Does this seem right? I'm sure they didnt touch the camber.

Vehicle has always warn inside of rear tyres. I had new tyres fitted 5000 km ago and although they didn't adjust the camber is now wearing on the outside. It's weird.

I have just fitted Koni shocks which prompted me to get the alignment done. I have to say there is little difference over OEM, particularly around town.

[CaverD3]

Did they put it into tight tolerence mode first?

[ADMIRAL]

The alignment spec sheet should have before and after readings. Do you have the before and after readings for the rear camber, castor and toe in ?

[Pete1]

Hi All,
There is no requirement to put it into tight tolerence for a general wheel alignment. Only if suspension has been pulled apart for repair. Vehicle will dive around and have severe bump-steer if aligned in tight tolerence.;)

[CaverD3]

I would disagree. Whilst not always necessary TTM will ensure that the settings are accurate when aligned. If he has tyre issues then it would be better for it to be done in TTM and may explain why his tyres are still wearing unevenly. Always had mine done in TTM tyres always wear evenly and definately no bump steer. I fail to see how using the correct procedure would cause bump steer.

[boofdtl]

WRONG WRONG WRONG its just away for landrover to make more money..................

[101RRS]

I agree with Carver - while not always possible - alignments should be done with TTM enabled.

[Rockylizard]

WRONG WRONG WRONG its just away for landrover to make more money..................

Gday...

I had new tyres (Coopers) fitted last year and the wheel alignment mob told me to get it into TTM - to see the dealer to have it set.

Dealer set it at TTM, drove slowly around to wheel aligner, alignment done, drove back to dealer slowly who then re-set it to 'normal' settings.

Dealer charged me nuffin for the service - very impressed.

The tyres have now done 38,000km and are wearing perfectly even each corner - rotated each 6,000km.

Cheers - John

[101RRS]

Dealer charged me nuffin for the service - very impressed.



That ain't normal.

The Dealers I have dealt with would charge one hours labour (min charge) to put it into TTM and then one hours labour to take it off.

[smwilk]

Yes was done in TTM

Before. After

Front.
LH. RH. LH. RH

Toe. +0.1. +1.7. +0.6. +0.6mm

Caster. + 4.17 +3.45. +05.05. + 04.06

Camber. -0.32deg. -01.27d. -0.31. -0.39

Rear

Toe. +2.4. +0.3. +0.7. + 0.9

Camber. -0.28. -0.72. -0.21. -0.81

[CaverD3]

Whether the figures are right or not I don't know.
Maybe continued uneven tyre wear may point to another issue. maybe bushes or steering arms?

My dealer does the lot and often does not charge me for it. If you service at main dealer they are a lot more fexible.

[boofdtl]

Yes was done in TTM

Before. After

Front.
LH. RH. LH. RH

Toe. +0.1. +1.7. +0.6. +0.6mm

Caster. + 4.17 +3.45. +05.05. + 04.06

Camber. -0.32deg. -01.27d. -0.31. -0.39

Rear

Toe. +2.4. +0.3. +0.7. + 0.9

Camber. -0.28. -0.72. -0.21. -0.81

I am new to all this landrover stuff but wheel alingments i am not and if a car left my shop with readings like that heads would roll i would take it back and get that fixed hope you didnt pay for that...
Sorry but if going to do a job and get payed for it do it right...

[discotwinturbo]

Southerns don't charge for TTM.

Have your alignment done without TTM, then do it again with TTM.

Those that don't think it's necessary will change their minds.

Brett....

[Graeme]

Caster. + 4.17 +3.45. +05.05. + 04.06

The front left caster is now out of spec (Degrees/Minutes + 4° 01' ± 0° 45' ). I wonder if this is because previous experience has indicated the extra left caster is required although I would expect inconsistant left/right handling when cornering.

[ADMIRAL]

Yes was done in TTM

Before. After

Front.
LH. RH. LH. RH

Toe. +0.1. +1.7. +0.6. +0.6mm

Caster. + 4.17 +3.45. +05.05. + 04.06

Camber. -0.32deg. -01.27d. -0.31. -0.39

Rear

Toe. +2.4. +0.3. +0.7. + 0.9

Camber. -0.28. -0.72. -0.21. -0.81
.................................................. .................................................. ......
Without checking the manufacturer spec, which I cannot access from home -

Based on the pre figures, I would expect your LH rear tyre would be badly scrubbed out. The offset in castor left to right on the front is pretty std, although it is higher than what I would normally go for. It is usual to have an extra 1/2 to 3/4 of a degree castor on the lh front wheel, to counter for the camber of the road. The camber would normally have the vehicle ' falling ' down the slope. The front rh may have had abnormal wear as well.

If these were your pre figures, they would explain why you were experiencing abnormal tyre wear. You haven't given any other detail, but if you have been running the vehicle for extended periods at access or raised heights on hard surfaces, you will experience abnormal tyre wear. Both of these settings change the wheel alignment settings substantially. I cannot recall if you detailed the tyres you had fitted while all this was going on. If they were the OE Wranglers, you are not the only one to chew them up. I just made it to 30000klms, and mine were totally stuffed.

If the vehicle is aligned out of TTM, there is a chance it will 'settle' during the alignment,effectively stuffing up the settings. I have heard of operators leaving a door open in an attempt to ' lock ' the vehicle's suspension, but it is certainly more effective using TTM. If the alignment you have listed above was out of TTM, it could be your alignment is already out. ( just noted it was done in TTM )

Note that there is always a + - allowance on manufacturer spec, and even a change to where the vehicle was aligned, may not have dramatic impact on tyre wear or driveability.

[gghaggis]

WRONG WRONG WRONG its just away for landrover to make more money..................

Really?? You want to think about that?

Cheers,

Gordon

[Disco4SE]

I am certainly no expert, but if the vehicle is kept running while the wheel alignment is being done, surely this replicar the height of the vehicle whilst on the road??
I carry a lot of weight in the rear of my D4 and when I turn the engine off, it drops quite a bit.

Cheers, Craig

[Graeme]

I carry a lot of weight in the rear of my D4 and when I turn the engine off, it drops quite a bit.It shouldn't change height just because the engine is stopped. However if you then get out the vehicle will rise because of less weight and within a few seconds it will lower to the height it was before you got out.

[oldsalt]

I am certainly no expert, but if the vehicle is kept running while the wheel alignment is being done, surely this replicar the height of the vehicle whilst on the road??
I carry a lot of weight in the rear of my D4 and when I turn the engine off, it drops quite a bit.

Cheers, Craig

I think you've left your wallet on the back seat Craig ... :p

[Disco4SE]

I think you've left your wallet on the back seat Craig ... :p
Aahhh, thats it...........I wish;)

[sniegy]

From memory the specs are in the owners h/book on the newer models?
I remember checking books on vehicles (making sure they are in English) & flicking through them & had a bit of a giggle when noticing these figures.

[smwilk]

Thx everyone. Was done in TMM. Seems to me based on your feedback that final rear camber is main issue. Should these be the same?

Tyres have done 5000 and wearing a little on the outside all round, more on rear but wear was not significant. Would Changing the shocks have thrown them out, that's my gut feel.

[boofdtl]

Really?? You want to think about that?

Cheers,

Gordon


No thanks

[Graeme]

Changing shocks does not interfere with wheel alignment on these vehicles.

[ADMIRAL]

Don't be too concerned about the slight variation in the camber you have now after the alignment. It really won't make a lot of difference. Most aligners will get them as close as reasonable possible, and that is good enough.

The toe in/out is your critical issue , and your post readings are ok. Watch your tyres for any abnormal wear. Edge wear or what looks like a saw tooth effect across the blocks of tread base, are the probably the most obvious danger signs. However you are going to get edge wear, you cannot avoid it altogether.

Rotate your tyres regularly. As often as you can reasonably manage. ( every 5000 if you can do it ) Unlikely the shocks would contribute much to wear in your case. In my experience, they have to be almost useless to have a lot of impact. Also shock related tyre wear is generally uneven.

Lastly, stop worrying about it. As has been demonstrated numerous times on this forum, tyre wear and life , vary incredibly. Tyre pressure, driving style, load carried, speed, you name it. Every single vehicle and driver, will experience vastly different tyre wear and life. Enjoy.

[PeterOZ]

have had mine done many times but 3 different tyre places, 2 of them it has the car put into TTM mode first by dealer.

Had new tyres fitted last year by the race car driver mob and they insisted they could do align without it being in TTM - wrong, crap job.

Have just had a new set of Perilli Scorpion Zeros fitted and had 4 wheel align (TTM) done. Car does understeer quite noticeably. Not sure if this is normal but can be diconcerting if entering a corner a bit quick.

thinking of taking it back to tyre place to get it looked at :angel:

[ADMIRAL]

have had mine done many times but 3 different tyre places, 2 of them it has the car put into TTM mode first by dealer.

Had new tyres fitted last year by the race car driver mob and they insisted they could do align without it being in TTM - wrong, crap job.

Have just had a new set of Perilli Scorpion Zeros fitted and had 4 wheel align (TTM) done. Car does understeer quite noticeably. Not sure if this is normal but can be diconcerting if entering a corner a bit quick.

thinking of taking it back to tyre place to get it looked at :angel:
what pressures are you running in the tyres ?

[101RRS]

What happens if the tyre place is some distance from the stealer?

How far can you drive in TTM and at what speed?

[discotwinturbo]

What happens if the tyre place is some distance from the stealer?

How far can you drive in TTM and at what speed?

I drive 4kms at 60kph.

You have no lowering or increasing of suspension using the button, and it will not adjust when you turn it off.

The way LR explained is that if you loaded it up, it would just sag.

I don't think going between LR and tyre place, the distance is not the issue.

Brett..l.

[101RRS]

Thanks Brett - not keen on having to pay the stealer around $300 just to get it set and then removed.

Also i run my car with the suspension 20mm lower than onroad height so not all that sure that the TTM height is all that relevant.

[CaverD3]

Ask dealer before you assume the price. Some dealers do the whole lot themselves.
If you run at <20mm then it should set the TTM height at that height.
Also note that TTM is supposed to be set with a full tank.

[101RRS]

I have enquired before as to pricing to put the car on the computer - min charge is 1 hours labour - even if it takes 10 minutes.

Local independent is 30min labour charge but that is a fair way from me.

Garry

[discotwinturbo]

My dealer southerns quoted 180 for a wheel alignment and balance.

TTM is free and I then see someone that is happy with a much lower fee. Bit of extra work for me, but I can then take the wife our for a fancy lunch on the savings.

Brett....

[CaverD3]

Anyone with Autologic can do it if you have an unfriendly dealer.

[Disco4SE]

Hi all,
Just had a wheel balance and alignment done by Camberwell Tyrepower.
Its the second time that Michael (boofdlt from this forum) has done it.
The tyres have worn evenly over the last 10,000Klm's and the vehicle tracks perfectly.
Thanks again Michael for your good work.

To hell with the TTM theory's.

Cheers, Happy Craig

[PeterOZ]

what pressures are you running in the tyres ?


around 38 - 40 I think

[Graeme]

Hi all,
Just had a wheel balance and alignment done...The tyres have worn evenly over the last 10,000Klm's and the vehicle tracks perfectly.
So what prompted having the alignment done again?

[Disco4SE]

So what prompted having the alignment done again?
Hi Graeme,
I was advised that it was a good idea to have done regularly.
This aside, I was interested to see if the initial wheel alignment was a success.
Prior to taking my vehicle back to Camberwell Tyrepower, I had an independant tyre specialist check the tyre wear and they informed me that the tyres were wearing spot on.

Cheers, Craig

[oldsalt]

I've just had my D3 done by Camberwell Tyrepower - thanks very much Michael - rotation - balance - alignment... the whole box & dice...had to have the toe-in/castor bolts replaced on the front...they gave me a lift to MLR so I could pick up the required spare parts and then fitted it all up for me...great service and a job well done. :D
http://files.myopera.com/veedub5/albums/10876582/IMG_1941.JPG

http://files.myopera.com/veedub5/albums/10876582/IMG_1943.JPG

"boof" at work...
http://files.myopera.com/veedub5/albums/10876582/IMG_1946.JPG

http://files.myopera.com/veedub5/albums/10876582/IMG_1948.JPG

[oldsalt]

Sorry - I forgot to put in the pics of the bolts that had to be replaced ...

http://files.myopera.com/veedub5/albums/10876582/IMG_1949.JPG

http://files.myopera.com/veedub5/albums/10876582/IMG_1950.JPG