ABS Issue

[Disco1Newbee]

Hi All,

'96 Disco 1, v8i.

I was wondering if anyone would be able to advise on this issue that im experiencing.

The issue is the ABS engages in at any time the brake pedal is pressed. This often happens for no apparent reason. I then need to let the brake pedal go, and re-apply the brake and then the ABS disengages. This even happens at very low speeds.

When it engages, it sounds like the ABS 'mechansim' whining (like a motor sound).

I was wondering if anyone would be able to advise on what to check for and where to check.

My first thought is ABS controller. Any thoughts.

TIA
SHaun

[98discovery]

Hi Shaun
I have posted replies to similar issues with ABS in the past and would offer the same advise to you.Get it checked out by someone with the ability to diagnose the problem and fix it properly.
I too had an unusual and intermittent problem with the ABS and almost found out the hardest way that this system is far from fail-safe.One of the wheel sensors had an intermittent fault and would cause the ABS to operate when the pedal was pressed,end result next to no braking force.After almost going through a busy intersection at walking speed I took the car to a local Land Rover service center had the fault diagnosed ,sensor replaced and no further issues.
I enjoy a tinker as much as the next bloke but its not worth risking your safety and others messing around trying to work out fault codes etc.
Hope this helps
(P.S cost about $250 to have repaired)

[0000_22]

HI,
I had a similar problem with my ABS on my 96 Disco where 9 out of 10 times the brakes would let go more than they would grip I had a 3 step solution

1. remove the ABS fuse from the fuse box this will disable your ABS and leave you with standard locking breaks unfortunately this will also leave you with a happy yellow light informing you of an ABS fault (nah dah)

2. take apart your dash and remove the globe behind the ABS light

3. put it all back together again

tadah you now can pass road worthy and should have working brakes sadly though these will be normal brakes but hey as the old outback saying goes KEEP IT SIMPLE.

[CU55TM Disco]

HI,
I had a similar problem with my ABS on my 96 Disco where 9 out of 10 times the brakes would let go more than they would grip I had a 3 step solution

1. remove the ABS fuse from the fuse box this will disable your ABS and leave you with standard locking breaks unfortunately this will also leave you with a happy yellow light informing you of an ABS fault (nah dah)

2. take apart your dash and remove the globe behind the ABS light

3. put it all back together again

tadah you now can pass road worthy and should have working brakes sadly though these will be normal brakes but hey as the old outback saying goes KEEP IT SIMPLE.


What this ^^^ guy said!

[djam1]

I think there may be some more steps to this
When you have the accident explaining to Insurance Companies and Authorities (hopefully not the Coroner)
Be careful you might go for years but if Murphy visits it could be all bad


HI,
I had a similar problem with my ABS on my 96 Disco where 9 out of 10 times the brakes would let go more than they would grip I had a 3 step solution

1. remove the ABS fuse from the fuse box this will disable your ABS and leave you with standard locking breaks unfortunately this will also leave you with a happy yellow light informing you of an ABS fault (nah dah)

2. take apart your dash and remove the globe behind the ABS light

3. put it all back together again

tadah you now can pass road worthy and should have working brakes sadly though these will be normal brakes but hey as the old outback saying goes KEEP IT SIMPLE.

[dullbird]

just take it to a land rover garage and have it put on the test book...it will tell you whats wrong with the braking in terms of whether it is a sensor or the module etc....


There is one thing you shouldn't mess with and that is brakes...

Now I had real ABS issues on my car and it ended up being an intermittent wheel sensor as soon as it was changed never an issue again.

I never had the whining like you though but I had moments when the brakes were inactive and simply didn't work and used to have to pull up the hand brake. This would happen at all different times mainly at slowish speed stuff and especially if bumping up a curb slightly in to a drive way while slowing on the brakes..

[justinc]

HI,
I had a similar problem with my ABS on my 96 Disco where 9 out of 10 times the brakes would let go more than they would grip I had a 3 step solution

1. remove the ABS fuse from the fuse box this will disable your ABS and leave you with standard locking breaks unfortunately this will also leave you with a happy yellow light informing you of an ABS fault (nah dah)

2. take apart your dash and remove the globe behind the ABS light

3. put it all back together again

tadah you now can pass road worthy and should have working brakes sadly though these will be normal brakes but hey as the old outback saying goes KEEP IT SIMPLE.


In my line of work, I curse people that perfrom this action, the vehicle is then deamed unroadworthy and uninsurable, the results of which have far reaching effects, give that some thought before you go messing with any vehicles safety systems. If it has a fault, fix it. If you can't afford to fix it, then get rid of the vehicle and buy a cheaper to maintain vehicle.
The worse thing is that you may then sell the vehicle to someone who has no idea what has been done, again a very silly practice.:mad:

JC

[Disco44]

In my line of work, I curse people that perfrom this action, the vehicle is then deamed unroadworthy and uninsurable, the results of which have far reaching effects, give that some thought before you go messing with any vehicles safety systems. If it has a fault, fix it. If you can't afford to fix it, then get rid of the vehicle and buy a cheaper to maintain vehicle.
The worse thing is that you may then sell the vehicle to someone who has no idea what has been done, again a very silly practice.:mad:

JC

Mine { 1996 } has been on the book and it showed faulty sensors and I replaced the 4 at a considerable cost , it still does it.What next, replace the whole set up which is probably worth more then a disco 1 is now.Incidentally it is the only thing that I have had constant trouble with in 12 years of ownership.

[justinc]

Mine { 1996 } has been on the book and it showed faulty sensors and I replaced the 4 at a considerable cost , it still does it.What next, replace the whole set up which is probably worth more then a disco 1 is now.Incidentally it is the only thing that I have had constant trouble with in 12 years of ownership.

I understand your dilemma, but you need to find someone who knows these systems inside out to fix it. Removing a globe and masking a fault is wrong.
The other alternative is to remove the whole ABS system, brake lines and all, and revert to non ABS and get an engineer to approve it, as it WAS optional equipment. I agree the system isn't exactly a 'good' one, but as far as insurance goes, which is the main point I had, it must be functional if on the vehicle.



JC

[0000_22]

see above

[0000_22]

In my line of work, I curse people that perfrom this action, the vehicle is then deamed unroadworthy and uninsurable, the results of which have far reaching effects, give that some thought before you go messing with any vehicles safety systems. If it has a fault, fix it. If you can't afford to fix it, then get rid of the vehicle and buy a cheaper to maintain vehicle.
The worse thing is that you may then sell the vehicle to someone who has no idea what has been done, again a very silly practice.

JC
__________________
Proud to be a Classic '85 110 Isuzu owner


it's like this mate Get off road some time with an older disco with out ABS then take out another with ABS preferably the same age as the one with out come back and tell me which one stopping ability was certain to stop especially when the maintenance schedule was abandoned with the previous owner. as for safety features I suppose you'd also subscribe to the idea that SRS is a safety feature... tell that to all the people with broken faces and arms from having their arms over the steering wheel airbag when It deploys.

besides that the point of safety devices is to ensure reliable safe operation of the vehicle if a system may compromise that then arguably it is not a safety device. also I would like to point out the high number of discos out there with faulty sensors... should make a little nervous about the guy tailgating you next time on the motor way...

don't get me wrong ABS is a great system when maintained and used almost exclusively on the road but in the even that you are primarily off road I'd argue It's more of a hazard than its worth

I've also come to notice that you are "Proud to be a Classic '85 110 Isuzu owner" very nice truck mate you have allot to be proud of there (to be honest I would gladly have one over the disco any day) but that said it stands to be noted that the 110 county is defiantly not one to fall victim to the devil of ABS. make no mistake the legality here is not what's being disputed here, but what is the difference between making my landy non ABS and you not having it to start with its not like the 96 Disco didn't come out with a non ABS option, therefore why should I have a vehicle that is "deemed unroadworthy and uninsurable," when in reality I probably have a vehicle that still has better stopping power than yours due to better disks even without the ABS?

Perhaps we should take the moment to state that while this may (if caught) cause you to lose your road worthy (but lets face it who the hell checks the fuse box then takes apart the dash pod for a road worthy?) and again if caught undermine your insurance, it can well be the safer option. all the same I will acknowledge here the small disclaimer that I'm sure you wanted me to state originally.

THE PRACTICE OF DISABLING YOUR ABS MAY BE ILLEGAL IN SOME/ALL (not to sure) STATES (don't get caught I wont be responsible) AND BE ETHICAL WHEN SELLING YOUR VEHICLE TELL THE BUYER THE OFF RECORD MODS YOU'VE DONE

[0000_22]

other question here is guys how much are people charging for sensors a quick ebay search turned up these

LAND ROVER DISCOVERY 1 FRONT BRAKE ABS SENSOR | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LAND-ROVER-DISCOVERY-1-FRONT-BRAKE-ABS-SENSOR-/220792462009?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3368419ab9)

$96 ish

LAND ROVER DISCOVERY 1 REAR ABS SENSORS`94-`98 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LAND-ROVER-DISCOVERY-1-REAR-ABS-SENSORS-94-98-/220707415206?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item33632fe4a6)

$140ish

from there your hanes manual should cover how to fit them

other idea/question is is there any photo tutorials here in AULRO on how preferably test but then replace sensors?

[dullbird]

it's like this mate Get off road some time with an older disco with out ABS then take out another with ABS preferably the same age as the one with out come back and tell me which one stopping ability was certain to stop especially when the maintenance schedule was abandoned with the previous owner. as for safety features I suppose you'd also subscribe to the idea that SRS is a safety feature... tell that to all the people with broken faces and arms from having their arms over the steering wheel airbag when It deploys.


besides that the point of safety devices is to ensure reliable safe operation of the vehicle if a system may compromise that then arguably it is not a safety device. also I would like to point out the high number of discos out there with faulty sensors... should make a little nervous about the guy tailgating you next time on the motor way...

Thats why you maintain and fix them so they remain safe for you and the next person that buys your car


don't get me wrong ABS is a great system when maintained and used almost exclusively on the road but in the even that you are primarily off road I'd argue It's more of a hazard than its worthI agree I hate my ABS off road but don't you have any on road driving to your off road points? or do you trailer your vehicle

I've also come to notice that you are "Proud to be a Classic '85 110 Isuzu owner" very nice truck mate you have allot to be proud of there (to be honest I would gladly have one over the disco any day) but that said it stands to be noted that the 110 county is defiantly not one to fall victim to the devil of ABS. make no mistake the legality here is not what's being disputed here, but what is the difference between making my landy non ABS and you not having it to start with its not like the 96 Disco didn't come out with a non ABS option, therefore why should I have a vehicle that is "deemed unroadworthy and uninsurable," when in reality I probably have a vehicle that still has better stopping power than yours due to better disks even without the ABS?

the vehicle is unroadworthy and uninsurable because you have tampered with a safety device which was fitted to the vehicle..go do a body lift on your disco with the optioned SRS airbags and see how far you get when declaring to your insurance or try to get it engineered
That is why JC said have it removed completely and then have it engineered. engineered should be easy because it wasn't standard on all cars and it would cost you around 400bux similar to replacing 4 sensors :)

Oh and I bet your disco wouldnt have better stopping power my disco doesnt stop better than my defender and I think they use the same caliper as the county:)

Perhaps we should take the moment to state that while this may (if caught) cause you to lose your road worthy (but lets face it who the hell checks the fuse box then takes apart the dash pod for a road worthy?) and again if caught undermine your insurance, it can well be the safer option. all the same I will acknowledge here the small disclaimer that I'm sure you wanted me to state originally.

THE PRACTICE OF DISABLING YOUR ABS MAY BE ILLEGAL IN SOME/ALL (not to sure) STATES (don't get caught I wont be responsible) AND BE ETHICAL WHEN SELLING YOUR VEHICLE TELL THE BUYER THE OFF RECORD MODS YOU'VE DONE

the other thing to remember is when insurance companys look into claims they will hire investigators (I have trained with them) stating stuff like this on an open public forum (which is easily searched) could easily have you come unstuck one day if they traced it back to you in the event of an accident. Both criminally and civil of course I'm not saying that this is going to happen and I hope you never have an at fault accident. Just something to be aware of when making your choices.:)

JC is a very good and very well respected Land Rover specialist so I think you will find a lot of the stuff he says is talking from experience I have no doubt he has had customers in his time bring cars to him that have had the safety features tampered with unknown to the unsuspecting buyer

[0000_22]

Several things



That is why JC said have it removed completely and then have it engineered. engineered should be easy because it wasn't standard on all cars and it would cost you around 400bux similar to replacing 4 sensors

how would one go about getting the engineering certs and likewise could one get the SRS removed? Other thing being what would need to be removed/replaced besides sensors master cylinder fuse etc. to make it back to standard locking breaks sudo legitimately?



JC is a very good and very well respected Land Rover specialist so I think you will find a lot of the stuff he says is talking from experience I have no doubt he has had customers in his time bring cars to him that have had the safety features tampered with unknown to the unsuspecting buyer

I think I owe JC an apology here in that in a moment of frustration I may not have engaged my head before typing I meant no disrepute to his expert ease my comments probably steamed from frustration with the seemingly backwards system no doubt JC is a very skilled tech. so again I apologise for any offence in my previous post

[dullbird]

Several things




how would one go about getting the engineering certs and likewise could one get the SRS removed? Other thing being what would need to be removed/replaced besides sensors master cylinder fuse etc. to make it back to standard locking breaks sudo legitimately?

I think I owe JC an apology here in that in a moment of frustration I may not have engaged my head before typing I meant no disrepute to his expert ease my comments probably steamed from frustration with the seemingly backwards system no doubt JC is a very skilled tech. so again I apologise for any offence in my previous post

I'm not sure how to answer the how to remove questions but what I would say would best to engage an engineer, talk to him about what you want to do and why you want to do it BEFORE doing anything...some engineers will sign off more than others it just depends on who you get.
I know my engineer that I used would not allow you remove the airbags option or not..and he is really picky about any modifications made to brakes but that is him and doesnt count for all..

I would also be taking proof of other cars in the same year without the fitment just to show that they were in fact optional extras....

somethings did change a little while back regarding signatorys so I dont know whether they have more restrictions now or whether you need to meet more standards or not...its been a while since i have spoken to my guy 2 yrs in fact so a lot could have changed...]
your best bet would be talk to one and see where you stand.:)

[superquag]

Has ABS always been an option for the D1? - Or did they become standard fitment after a certain date ?

[Blknight.aus]

ABS is late 94/early 95

as of 96 if it was an option for the vehicle then it was mandatory to be fitted.

in a recent (bout a year ago from memory) sting on roadworthy checks a couple of guys lost their tickets for failing to report that safety system check lights did not illuminate as part of the vehicles idiot light check sequence nor that the ABS systems were non functional a couple of cautions were issued for not picking up that the SRS components were 10+ years old and therefore due for replacement.


NO engineer will sign off on removing any part of a safety system.

[justinc]

Several things



how would one go about getting the engineering certs and likewise could one get the SRS removed? Other thing being what would need to be removed/replaced besides sensors master cylinder fuse etc. to make it back to standard locking breaks sudo legitimately?



I think I owe JC an apology here in that in a moment of frustration I may not have engaged my head before typing I meant no disrepute to his expert ease my comments probably steamed from frustration with the seemingly backwards system no doubt JC is a very skilled tech. so again I apologise for any offence in my previous post

Hey no offence taken, just I take a very serious view of this sort of thing, and I DO agree the D1 system is a poor ABS for sure, but nonetheless it is fitted to some. I wouldn't choose it, but that is just me. My 1985 110 suits me just fine, I had a great 1993 LSE RR with that fantastic Wabco ABS and rear TC now that system works properly, never gave trouble and had wihout doubt the best brakes of any LR I have ever owned.

Insurance companies are a fact of life, we don't have to like them though:(

Happy LR'ing:)

JC

[superquag]

ABS is late 94/early 95

as of 96 if it was an option for the vehicle then it was mandatory to be fitted.

....a couple of cautions were issued for not picking up that the SRS components were 10+ years old and therefore due for replacement.

.

That's answered my next thread.. which D1 to look for if/when I need a cheap car for sons...

'What' ABS components must be replaced every 10 years ? Sounds expensive. Most importantly, why?

To my cynical mind, that means inadequate OEM quality, or someone's idea of generating income for stealers/parts suppliers.
- Reminds me of a scare campaign over here some years ago, trying to frighten motorists into replacing their shock-absorbers every 30,000km or less. - That works out at every 18 months for the 'average' owner...

Those of us locals with white hair may recall the late 70's /80's Great Ball-Joint Ripoff. - Once again, motorists frightened into thinking they'd come apart on rough surfaces if there was any free-play. - Some early model Falcons had 'heaps' of play... From new. Quite normal as per specifications.

- Follow the money...

[Blknight.aus]

no ABS component MUST be replaced every 10 years unless they are non functional. Its SRS (supplementary Restraint System) components that must be replaced every 10 years and they are all the ones with the stuff that goes boom in them as the pyrotechnics have a shelf life. Essentially any airbag and the seatbelt pretensioners. Old school dumb as a post systems dont show any error and rely on logbook tracking or pulling the vehicle apart to inspect the dates, newer ones have a date code built into the unit which is interrogated by the BCU (or equivelent) on startup and will tell you that component X is now due for replacement.

If your going to get a landy to teach someone to drive in get a series, strong, slow and it will teach them about line picking, traffic anticipation, braking distances and how you have to drive when all the electronics go west. They go fairly cheaply and cost a pittance to maintain once they are up.

[superquag]

no ABS component MUST be replaced every 10 years unless they are non functional. Its SRS (supplementary Restraint System) components that must be replaced every 10 years and .....

If your going to get a landy to teach someone to drive in get a series, strong, slow and it will teach them about line picking, traffic anticipation, braking distances and how you have to drive when all the electronics go west. They go fairly cheaply and cost a pittance to maintain once they are up.

My apologies... had a Senior's moment and let my intolerance out for a stroll...:(

Came across some interesting stats some years ago, regarding airbags and rates of medium and high-trauma injuries compared to outright fatals. This was based on a particular model car that carried the option of 'bags for a considerable time, allowing a more meaningful interpretation of the figures.

In a nutshell - you'd live longer without them, the presence of airbags had a negative influence on driver behaviour, from slight to serious depending on their natural risk profile...
In a serious but 'survivable' collision, major injury rates dropped, as you'd expect, though airbag-induced 'minor' damage increased... But air-bagged cars were involved in many more serious crashes, which pushed the survial rates back down. - Lesson to be drawn: Airbags will not save you from a Very Serious Prang, such as arguing with a tree at xxx km/h. Or a truck.

Many folk do not realize that airbags etc, are 'Supplementary Restraint Systems... Nice to have.
Primary restraint is via a seatbelt, correctly worn. Essential to have.

ABS and Stability Controls have, IMHO, encouraged drivers, women and younger especially, to drive closer... brake later and firmer, take corners faster and on less stable lines throughout.

Bring on the Series... sliding around with cross-ply tyres :twisted::twisted::twisted:

[gazby]

Blknight.aus has said ABS and SRS was mandatory from 1996 models, I have a manufactured August '97, Australian compliance 1/98, first reg'd 3/98, D1 "S" model with neither (thank goodness from what I see here), our previous complied '97 D1 was the same, so there must be exceptions to the 1996 date.
Like most technological advances, it all costs, first to purchase and then to maintain. Give me the simple life!!!

[dullbird]

they were not mandatory on 96 models as mine is listed as having optional airbags

[justinc]

in 94 with the intro of the updated MA vin discos, drivers or dual airbags were optional, and were still up until the introduction of the d2 in 1999, which were then all standard fitment, no option to have them without.

same with ABS, and i agree with 0000_22, the non abs models are far better in the brake performance department....:(

jc

[nobbyclrk]

other idea/question is is there any photo tutorials here in AULRO on how preferably test but then replace sensors?

The only reliable test is to check frequency and amplitude. Which is what the ECU is looking at and compare with the other wheels.
Also look for any irregularities which may be a damaged tone wheel.

Scan tools are not capable of doing it.

[superquag]

Guess who chucked out a nearly-working ancient Tektronix oscilloscope two years ago...- had this feeeling I'd need it soon.....:o

Would this do the job ?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ARM-Dso201-Portable-Pocket-sized-Mini-Nano-Handheld-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-/120846229843?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item1c22ff2153