Tray Mounts

[strangy]

Hi all,

Need/want to lift my tray about an inch and need to replace the rubber pads anyway.

Is there any reason why I shoulnt insert some engine mounts, like these, 3 each side instead?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/08/660.jpg

cheers

[langy]

Opinion: Engine mounts - no. Too much sideways force that could shear the mount (even though there is some reinforcement) Try body lift stuff?

[alanw]

Would suggest some form of flexible mount would be a good idea.

Like many with a 130DC routinely carrying heavy loads and heavy towing, I have managed to crack the chassis. Was an easy fix - but I am of the view that part of my problem was due to tray mounts which were too rigid.

I had got a bit sick of cracked tray mounts on previous vehicles and when I built the tray for the 130 I made the mounts quite rigid - and the first thing to give was the chassis.

alanw

[mick88]

Probally why in past times trays were mounted on lengths of timber with "U" bolts holding them down in about four locations. This would have allowed for flexing and been more forgiving on the chassis and tray!
You only have to follow a semi on an undulating road at night to see how much a steel tray can flex.



Cheers, Mick.

[Summiitt]

Would suggest some form of flexible mount would be a good idea.

Like many with a 130DC routinely carrying heavy loads and heavy towing, I have managed to crack the chassis. Was an easy fix - but I am of the view that part of my problem was due to tray mounts which were too rigid.

I had got a bit sick of cracked tray mounts on previous vehicles and when I built the tray for the 130 I made the mounts quite rigid - and the first thing to give was the chassis.

alanw

Which area cracked? My 130 puma has just cracked the tray mounts,behind the cab for the second time.the first time they cracked I had the body builders remove the tray and fit pieces of heavy rubber on all mounts, this fixed the problem for about 8 months.they have (stupidly?) used the factory raised mounts off the chassis, that are held in by 3 Tex screws on each side, the chassis itself hasn't cracked, it's the top of the mounts that the tray bolts onto that's given way. The front of the tray would be carrying perhaps about 550-600kg all the time, suggestions on a permanent fix would be welcome.

[Michael2]

Years ago I read about engine mounts on compressors. Those mounted vertically eccentuated vibration, while the more expensive compressors had mounts on 45 deg angles (like a car) which cancelled the vibrations. I since imagined putting a series of 45 deg brackets on a chassis with corresponding brackets on the body and 'isolating' th bod from the chassis. The way the firewall is mounted is an "impossibility", but if I ever built a custom orward control camper on a Land Rover chassis, I'd do that.

It's more work, but if you can fabricate 45 degree mounts, I think it will work a whole lot better.

[strangy]

My chassis mounts need to be rebuilt as they have cracked and been repaired at least 3 times that I can see, though fortunately the brackets have been the weakest link and the chassis is ok.
So fabricating some modified tray mounts to suit is no drama.

I was looking at fitting the engine mounts at 45 deg or using the 45 degree mounts for the tray. I think this straight style mounted at 45 would be the better option of the 2, but.....
The only thing I could think of with the engine mount idea was the shear stress in case of a collision. Dont want the tray coming through the back.
Very little chance of torsional forces breaking them and real easy to change out if one does start to fail and no welding repairs (in theory)

Dont want to cause a roadworthy issue either.

Langy do you mean "body lift" type mountings or do you know of a specific type of chassis/tray mounting.

I can get some blocks of Polyurethane and put longer through bolts with oversize holes and heavy retainer plates to allow the tray to flex better on the mounts when needed, but the mob in Alice want nearly $200 for the blocks, which I thought was bit steep.

Thanks for the input

cheers

[Michael2]

...I was looking at fitting the engine mounts at 45 deg or using the 45 degree mounts for the tray. I think this straight style mounted at 45 would be the better option of the 2, but.....
The only thing I could think of with the engine mount idea was the shear stress in case of a collision. Dont want the tray coming through the back.
Very little chance of torsional forces breaking them and real easy to change out if one does start to fail and no welding repairs (in theory)...

It sounds like a legitimate concern, but how many times has anyone seen an engine and gearbox shear off their mounts in an accident?

I'd be pretty confident in a series (6-8) of 45 degree mounts, but you could always weld on on a tether (maybe a short chain) on each corner in case of catastrophic failure.

[Dockstrada]

Hi all,

Need/want to lift my tray about an inch and need to replace the rubber pads anyway.

Is there any reason why I shoulnt insert some engine mounts, like these, 3 each side instead?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/08/660.jpg

cheers

Go down to your local plastic center and ask for some 50mm Acetal roundbar, Acetal is well known for its friction and wear properties, It is more rigid and is more resistant to environmental stress cracking.
Cut them to your desired length and drill them out with a 10.5 throught the center fit an M10 x 8.8 bolt and nylock nut and your done. I have used them for body lifts on several occasions .

[alanw]

Which area cracked? My 130 puma has just cracked the tray mounts,behind the cab for the second time.the first time they cracked I had the body builders remove the tray and fit pieces of heavy rubber on all mounts, this fixed the problem for about 8 months.


The break was just behind the back cabin - where the chassis goes from being straight to rising up to go over the rear axle. In effect a bit of a stress point - and complicated/aggravated by a factory weld directly across the top of the chassis at this point. The initial break was on the edge of this weld on both sides. All of the tray mounts are rear of this.

The break was from the top down reflecting the loads on the rear of the vehicle. Have a spare (heavy wolf rim etc) under the tray at the rear - also large tool boxes under the tray behind the wheels and often put a 1t pallet on the tray. Not to mention towing tandem trailers. So the loads have been significant (and probably a tad overspec) and it took abt 170K of not very good roads for the break to happen. I don't rate it as a major problem and it was easy to fix.

If I was building the tray again I would put some flexibility into the tray mounts and try to include a mounting point forward of where the crack occurred. Would take a bit of fabrication but would not be difficult. And would look at reinforcing the chassis where it cracked.

I would prefer to be repairing tray mounts rather than a broken chassis.

alanw

[roverrescue]

i havent eye balled later 130 tray crack issues but have seen photos
On older 130 the general gist is if the tray is rigid (Steel) with 6 or more pick ups to the chassis well with big loads and bad roads you get chassis cracks at the weak point
With less rigid trays (aluminium c channel) 4 pick up points the chassis is okay but the poxy front tray mount suffers. If these front tray mounts are beefed and the rear cross member used - hard bolting the al tray back on seems to aleviate the stress

If you had a rigid tray, before modding for angled mounts, i would try this.
At each chassis point uee a longer bolt, between tray and chassis insert a polyurethane bush approx 15mm in diameter with washers, on the underside of the chassis mount plate use a rubber bush with washers. So you still have thru bolting for some semblance of shear strength but as the chassis twists the rigid tray wont fight the twist. Rubber on the underside will be more flexible poly on top wont compress as badly with loads. ? ? ?

Or make up a set of sprung mounts like the earth cruiser tray mounts on canter izuzu trucks

Steve

[Summiitt]

Thanks Steve, I will try the bushes, forgot to mention mine is a single cab with a 9ft steel tray. I will take it back to the guys who built the body and see what their take on it is, if I'm not happy I will give it to a company that does my welding and machining. Its still under warranty, but landrover says its an issue with the body builder and the body builders say its a vehicle issue! Thanks for the advice.

[roverrescue]

btw I meant 15mm in thickness
diameter would want to be up around 50mm I imagine

The big chassis cracks I have seen in 130s have all been on really solidly built steel trays
You know - the "bullet proof" ones!

Chassis twists tray doesnt - something has to let go

S

[strangy]

No worries I kinda figured 15mm was little small for a Dia.

My tray is the "bullet proof" type.
4mm x 100mm x 50mm RHS rails with 4x 4mm x 50mm angle cross members, then 2.5mm sheet deck + the outer rails
I can only estimate around 300kg. based on the 4 blokes working to move it.

It has six mounts. With one at the front and 2 @ 200mm apart at the rear above/ beside the fuel tank. Clearance holes only for the bolts.
The six mounts without extra clearance definitely restrict the abilty to flex when needed.
So maybe some lighter members to go in and an ally checker plate floor to lighten the dead weight while I'm sorting the mounts.

I like the "Earth Cruiser" spring bolted idea also.

Reading the latest posts, I realised I have the body mounts for a Disco sitting here complete with bushes and bolts that shouldnt have a problem allowing flex, lifting the tray an inch or so and having through bolts.:)
I wont have six mount points now.

The folded channel I ordered to repair the mounts is ready today so into some fab work tomorrow.
Thanks all for the ideas, I reckon I can sort this now with a good result.

cheers

[roverrescue]

Strangy your tray would flex far less than the two chassis rails I would imagine

Disco body mounts will do the job pretty well I would think but the ones between tray and chassis may compress over time with loads

I dont think I would go to the trouble of changing the deck - If you want a lighter rust proof tray then sort out a full Al one and sell the steely

Fixing the mounts is certainly a good start anyway!

S

[Summiitt]

I spoke to the guys that did my tray today and they have basically said that the front tray mounts provided are unsuitable, and I'm carrying too much weight up the front of the vehicle! They have said it's not their issue, I'm positive that the mounts they used are only designed to hold up the rear floor in a dual cab vehicle, they are only about 2 mm steel, Tex screwed to the chassis with 3screws on each mount. I had the tray custom built and in the design it was clear that up the front of the tray was 2 under body toolboxes,2spares against the headboard, and a 500litre diesel tank, tray weight with empty boxes was 450kg, even with the diesel and tools on board I'm only 3100kg. front axle weight is also well short of it's gross, land rover have rightly said the mounts should not have been used by the tray builders, and that the vehicles use and weights is not an issue...very annoying for a 3yr old work ute..

[roverrescue]

Any chance of a photo of your damage Summiitt for a sticky beak?
Sounds like your in one of those terrible "he said she said" situations!

Perhaps if you are happy to share the photo details of your set up somone might be able to help?

S

[Summiitt]

Sorry for the delay, some photos of the cracked mount and the typical load on the front of the tray, my welding lads are attacking it next week with new mounts..

[Expedition 130]

How about some photos of your new bracket when they are finished Summiitt, I have the same brackets on my tray although they are bolted to the chassis with three 8mm bolts not tech screws, I have had one cracked bracket fixed, when fully loaded I'm a bit heavier than you but not as much weight up the front of the tray.

Greg

[Summiitt]

Will do, I suspect I have the same 3 8mm bolts....they look like, and are probably as effective as tex screws, my industrial engineers took one look at the mounts and laughed, they will build some new, bullet proof mounts...will post some photos when they are done

[strangy]

50473
New front mounts 3mm plate.



50472

Fitted and painted.


50474

Rear mounts . Much more solid and spread the load more evenly on the Chassis.

[Summiitt]

I finally had a chance to lift the tray off my 130 puma to repair the front cracked tray mounts. I ended up bending up some 5mm plate, sleeving the original mounts internally and dropping the reinforcement down further on the chassis for better support. Then used 8mm high tensile bolts to secure the supports to the chassis, welded the supports on the outside of the chassis(not linking the welds to avoid cracking the chassis) and then fitted the folded 5mm top section to the mounts to ensure sideways movement is limited, rubber blocked the tray and lifted it back on.
Its much quiter and looking at the tray movement behind the rear window whilst on rough dirt roads, its definately stiffened things up...time will tell when im fully loaded and lifting wheels if its worked or not!

[460cixy]

Wish I found this thread earlier mines done the exact same thing front mounts broken and repaired and the next mounts along also broken and repaired badly now the bolts work lose all the time and the tray wobbles around like a sausage in a hall way. and have no space to pull it all off and repair it correctly would also like to fit a spare above the fuel tank jap style

[130man]

Hi all, my ex-Telstra extra cab box body was mounted with six bolts across the rear crossmember but the front mounts were solid bolted to outriggers located just behind the cab. The left outrigger was just long enough to support the body mount , about 125 mm square while the right side one was the usual length and also supported the tray for a second battery. With over 291000 kms and no chassis cracking, this seems to have been a successful method of attaching what turns out to be a fairly heavy body, about 500kgs, by my estimate. With all the tools etc I carried it would have easily been 800kg as a common weight. I have installed an alloy tray in place of the box body to suit the new requirements of carrying a Trayon Camper and have used essentially the same mounting method. The front mounts are short legs made from 10mm mild steel and consist of a square base welded to verticals with an L section when looked at from above. The base is bolted to the chassis outriggers using the original holes while the tray is bolted to the top of the verticals using existing holes in the Z section main supports. By sheer luck, the tray longitudinals were the same distance apart as the outside of the 130's chassis rails and fitted beautifully. Incidently, the main supports of the alloy tray turn out to be galvanised steel , less than 2mm thick. Is this usual in an otherwise all alloy tray? Hope this is useful. Cheers, 130man.

[460cixy]

Any chance of some pics?

[130man]

Hi , I will try to take and upload some photos over the coming weekend. Cheers, 130man.

[Tote]

I removed and refitted my tray (130 DC) on Sunday. I needed to lift it to fit the water tank and while it was up I fitted rubber between the chassis and the mount points as suggested in the body manual. I made up a front bar that was welded to the tray to fit the frontmost mounts when I got the tray, this is pictured below.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/toteau/Defender/IMGP3301.1_zpsnl4bhypn.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/toteau/media/Defender/IMGP3301.1_zpsnl4bhypn.jpg.html)

The next set of mounts back are also used with this tray with a couple of large bolts through the bottom of the recessed part picking up the second set of mounts. I have fitted rubber as well as a set of compression springs to the second mount which should stop any damage there.

The second mount is visible in the y of the cables in this shot

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/toteau/Defender/IMGP3302.1_zpsqvurju3w.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/toteau/media/Defender/IMGP3302.1_zpsqvurju3w.jpg.html)

Spring mount fitted

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/toteau/Defender/IMGP3308.1_zpsk5tcy9km.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/toteau/media/Defender/IMGP3308.1_zpsk5tcy9km.jpg.html)

I made the spring mounts from a couple of valve springs donated from an old International diesel motor on the tip at the inlaws place. I just needed to enlarge the hole in the retaining cup to fit the bolts through and it all fitted nicely.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/toteau/Defender/IMGP3306.1_zpsgedwryzt.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/toteau/media/Defender/IMGP3306.1_zpsgedwryzt.jpg.html)

The rear of the tray is rubber mounted to the back crossmember and also bolted to the two pads that are in front of it.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/toteau/Defender/IMGP3304.1_zps2vfe4sfm.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/toteau/media/Defender/IMGP3304.1_zps2vfe4sfm.jpg.html)

There was no sign of stress on the mounts after 10,000KM from new but we're off to do Goog's track , Maralinga and back to Coober Peedy via the Anne Beadell so I wasn't brave enough to go with the tray as solidly mounted as it was.

Regards,
Tote

[460cixy]

Nice work used to run a water cart on an Atkinson heavy rigid that used the same spring idea