D3 Rims on a Boat Trailer

[Peter]

Guys,

My boat trailer's 17 year old tyres and D1 steel rims need replacing and am wanting advice on changing to D3 rims. It has served me well and trips have included the Gibb River Road and a rather nasty trip between Cook Town and Bathurst Bay.

eBay rims and tyres seems to be a good option so before I dive in and buy a set, the first issue is getting my head around how it all comes together.

For starters, a couple of Trailer Hubs which have the same bolt spacing and thread so I can use D3 Rims and Wheel Nuts.

Considering I have Stainless Steal Sleeves on the axle for the seal to run on I have convinced myself that purchasing proper D3 hubs might not be the best option... (or is it?)

I have checked more than a few trailer web sites and have had no luck and hoping the collective wisdom of the Forum can help.

Has anyone made a D3 wheeled trailer?
If so, what advice would you give?
Also, where did you get the hubs?

Thanks in advance and looking forward to your responses.

Cheers PK

[Graeme]

Trailer hubs Commodore PCD and fitted with 14mm studs. I think there's a few threads on here. I don't know how the centering ring matches though.

[rufusking]

There's a little bit more to correctly changing the rims fitted to trailers. You can buy adapter rings for the centre hub but the bigger concern is with the change in rim diameter. The lateral forces generated on the tyre when cornering greatly increased the load at the bearing/hub/stub axle area (basic lever arm concept). So if you look through say alko's (trailer component manufacturer) website you will see there is a a marked change in components when you go from 13" to 14" to 15/16" rims etc.

[Peter]

Thanks and I currently run D1 rims with a massive hub and bearings to match on a solid 50mm square axle.

I was kinda hoping there would be a swap over hub for the axle which would let me refurb the existing setup. I am aware the lateral forces are a killer for the larger diameter tyres. I have actually seen the results of up-sizing the rims on garden trailers a few times... mostly embarrassing... sometimes catastrophic.

I called Al-ko and it would seem that ~$450 should sort it out. Includes the possible need for a new axle to match the new bearings etc.

First step is to buy some D3 rims and tyres then get the new dimensions.

Thanks for your help guys.

[Graeme]

I had plans to replace the 14" rims on my small van with D3 rims (17" X5 rims actually) and 12" brakes but the pcd is too small for the HD hubs that are req'd for 12" brakes. According to the Vehicle Components catalogue 10" brakes with 790mm tyres are only good for 1.4T yet a 50mm sq axle & SL bearings with 790mm tyres is good for 1.6T, but that is still less than the 1.8-2.0T I'd like. I intend investigating if its posible to do a 120mm pcd HD hub in case the limiting factor is the Commodore rim's centre hole not being large enough to fit over the HD hub. I have been advised by 1 trailer parts supplier that the HD hubs cannot be drilled for 120mm pcd but perhaps a special order is possible.

[101RRS]

Check with bodzed57 after he has his issues on his Cape York trip sorted http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/156375-d3-epb-dash-indicator-flashing.html

Before leaving on his trip he had his camper trailer converted to take D3 wheels and I believe had its brake drums changed as well.

Garry

[gghaggis]

I had plans to replace the 14" rims on my small van with D3 rims (17" X5 rims actually) and 12" brakes but the pcd is too small for the HD hubs that are req'd for 12" brakes. According to the Vehicle Components catalogue 10" brakes with 790mm tyres are only good for 1.4T yet a 50mm sq axle & SL bearings with 790mm tyres is good for 1.6T, but that is still less than the 1.8-2.0T I'd like. I intend investigating if its posible to do a 120mm pcd HD hub in case the limiting factor is the Commodore rim's centre hole not being large enough to fit over the HD hub. I have been advised by 1 trailer parts supplier that the HD hubs cannot be drilled for 120mm pcd but perhaps a special order is possible.

Track Trailer (I think it was the Brisbane outlet) have built trailer hubs to fit the 18" rims I supply, so it's certainly possible. It took a while to do the first time, no doubt they could do it better 2nd time around.

Cheers,

Gordon

[Peter]

HD hubs cannot be drilled for 120mm pcd but perhaps a special order is possible.

Naaaaah... Don't drill a wheel. Sounds like too much paperwork "in the unlikely event of an accident" etc.

[Graeme]

Drill the hubs to a particular pattern instead of the more popular patterns, not drilling the rims.

[Peter]

Trailer hubs Commodore PCD and fitted with 14mm studs. I think there's a few threads on here. I don't know how the centering ring matches though.

A reliable contact (and Google) have told me that BMW, late model Commodore and Discos have the same PCD so you should be OK.

I have seen many options for BMW rims and have been very tempted considering the cost (even second hand) compared to the D3 option.

The issues I struggled with, due to my own lack of engineering knowledge, included thread depth, wheel nuts and hub strength required for the size of the tyre.

The conclusion I am arriving at is coloured by my desire to take the D3 and Boat to the Cape so matching rims makes more sense.

The guy at Al-Ko is going to match the Disco PCD, Bolt, thread and length of the studs so I can use standard D3 wheel nuts with the right number of turns.

The hub choice will include the capacity for the additional lateral forces.

The only hurdle for me is the price of the D3 rims and tyres second hand are a little prohibitive so I have a little time and will use it.

[p38arover]

The only hurdle for me is the price of the D3 rims and tyres second hand are a little prohibitive so I have a little time and will use it.

Try Disco 2 or P38A rims. They use the same PCD, offset, and stud size. I have RRS rims on my P38A. Do note, however, that the bore size on the D2 and P38A is smaller than the D3/D4/RRS.

L322 rims should fit OK.

[Graeme]

With Track Trailer showing a max axle load of 1600kg, the brakes needing to be larger than 10" is the only obstacle which could be overcome if there's a 12" drum available with a centre hole small enough to be used with 120mm pcd, assuming the brakes are electric. 11" mechanical or hydraulic brakes are available, but not electric to my knowledge.

I've discovered that the HD hub/drum combination's boss dia of 104mm wont allow the D3 rims to fit, being only 73mm at the mounting face.

[Peter]

The D2 Bore is 64.1 and the D3 is 72.56.

My research to date has suggested that the bore seats into the hub and takes the forces and not the bolts so this logic would suggest the wheels would not be safely interchanged between car and trailer. Perhaps I missed something.

[Peter]

OK we have commitment ...

1. RRS Rims and Tyres from eBay... Excellent deal for four ten spoke rims with three good tyres and one barely legal. This has its own problems as they look better than the D3 rims... emotion v budget...
2. 13 Wheel nuts from British Off Road and yes they are an alloy based on expensium but I haggled with iPad open at eBay in hand.
3. Three bolts for the spare wheel from the Nut and Bolt guy on Deshon Street.

Then... last week I called Al-ko again and got a different less helpful guy who reckoned it was all too hard to do what I am doing. :(

I will be calling back in the morning to check the hub end cap dimensions and threads. This time I will chance getting the original guy and get the codes etc. and write them down.

[Graeme]

I've ordered blank ASTSS parallel bearing 1600 kg hubs which will be machined, drilled and fitted with 14 mm studs to accept my BMW rims. The hubs are similar to ones available from AL-KO but have a smaller diameter boss that requires less machining. A spacer of a yet to be determined thickness will be used to fit genuine LR rims due to their hub-cap hole being closer to the mounting face than the BMW rims.

I thought that Vehicle Components might be more interested in bespoke hubs but not so.

My last email response from AL-KO follows. Chicken and egg problem where there's no demand from trailer or van builders because the hubs aren't available because there's no demand.

At this time there is very little demand for the product you describe, should the market indicate there is a need for this in such volumes that makes the production viable ,I am sure we would consider it.
I am sure you understand we supply oem’s on a national basis and are not equipped to take on one off jobs.


Leo Sargent
State Manager NSW.

[Redback]

I've ordered blank ASTSS parallel bearing 1600 kg hubs which will be machined, drilled and fitted with 14 mm studs to accept my BMW rims. The hubs are similar to ones available from AL-KO but have a smaller diameter boss that requires less machining. A spacer of a yet to be determined thickness will be used to fit genuine LR rims due to their hub-cap hole being closer to the mounting face than the BMW rims.

I thought that Vehicle Components might be more interested in bespoke hubs but not so.

My last email response from AL-KO follows. Chicken and egg problem where there's no demand from trailer or van builders because the hubs aren't available because there's no demand.

At this time there is very little demand for the product you describe, should the market indicate there is a need for this in such volumes that makes the production viable ,I am sure we would consider it.
I am sure you understand we supply oem’s on a national basis and are not equipped to take on one off jobs.


Leo Sargent
State Manager NSW.



I got the same email when I asked about 120PCD hubs with 14mm studs, I replied with;

Who drives a Bedford or HK holden these days anyway and you still make imperial products in a Metric world, you do realise that even Holdens are all metric now don't you, and, have M14 studs, it's 2012, not 1965.

He replied again, I'll put up what he replied when I get home, it was a very strange reply:eek:

I'm always amused about the sizes trailer manufacturers use, 9/16 Land Cruiser studs:eek: what Land Cruiser uses 9/16 studs

Baz.

[Redback]

Leo Sargents last reply to my inquirey

"May be you have stumble across an unfilled niche market"


Baz

[Peter]

Is this what they call on-the-job training? Sadly I am confirming the information in other posts.

Learnings from today's little outing to Al-Ko.

1. Boss (see I'm using technical terms now) is too long and would need to be machined to fit.
2. Hub is 150mm diameter which is not quite the size of the contact area of the inside of the rim.
3. Combined advice suggests that a 200mm hub is the right choice but the Boss diameter is too large to fit.

Option to take a set of blank 150mm hubs and have them machined by about 5mm and then return them for bearings and an axle. There is enough meat to trim a few mm off and still fit the cap and bearing. The issue is still the contact area of the rim and hub.

I also asked about putting a disk brake rotor on the hub as a two piece setup with longer studs and they do not supply this for their slim line bearing setup (aka the closest one to fitting the rim). I optimistically suggested putting a custom made blank spacer and was informed this is more than a bit unlawful.

Is the answer some sort of spacer as everything is just so very close to working?

Any thoughts?

[Peter]

Spacer plates are not allowed in Queensland (at least). See page page 73.

Reasons for rejection:

Spacer plates are used between hub and wheels (except where fitted by the vehicle manufacturer).

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safety/Vehicle%20standards%20and%20modifications/Vehicle%20modifications/Industry%20codes%20of%20practice/Pdf_veh_stds_ais_codeofpractice_section2b_feb2004. pdf

[Peter]

Just noted that the boss will not be able to centre the rim and on closer inspection the wheel nuts are not a close fit.

Currently doing a bit of Google research on spigot rings. Seems like there are a few options for the fast car market.

Has anyone worked through this issue?

[Redback]

OK I sent an email to this mob asking if they would do a 5 x 120PCD 10" x 2" offroad hub with 14mm studs


COUPLEMATE Trailer Parts Pty. Ltd.
Unit 1 - 136 Glenora St.,
Wynnum Qld 4178
Phone 07 33483822
Fax 07 33485629
www.couplemate.com.au (http://www.couplemate.com.au)

I recieved this reply.

Barry
We sell a 5 x 120p.c.d. that suits a land rover defender with 14mm studs
2 weeks from placement and payment of order.

$132.00 each

Many Thanks
Bruce Day
.................................................. ................................................
So I have replied with this

The Land Rover Discovery 2, 3 and 4 and Range Rover Sport 1999 on are 5 x 120p.c.d and 14mm studs, the Land Rover Discovery 1 and Defender is 5 x 165PCD with 16mm studs as far as I'm aware.

If you can supply the 5 X 120P.C.D in 10" x 2" offroad brake hub, that would be great and I will buy it, but I need to be sure, as I've been through this before and got supplied with the wrong hubs.

Thanks,
Baz.

[weeds]

looks promising Baz.......




OK I sent an email to this mob asking if they would do a 5 x 120PCD 10" x 2" offroad hub with 14mm studs


COUPLEMATE Trailer Parts Pty. Ltd.
Unit 1 - 136 Glenora St.,
Wynnum Qld 4178
Phone 07 33483822
Fax 07 33485629
www.couplemate.com.au (http://www.couplemate.com.au)

I recieved this reply.

Barry
We sell a 5 x 120p.c.d. that suits a land rover defender with 14mm studs
2 weeks from placement and payment of order.

$132.00 each

Many Thanks
Bruce Day
.................................................. ................................................
So I have replied with this

The Land Rover Discovery 2, 3 and 4 and Range Rover Sport 1999 on are 5 x 120p.c.d and 14mm studs, the Land Rover Discovery 1 and Defender is 5 x 165PCD with 16mm studs as far as I'm aware.

If you can supply the 5 X 120P.C.D in 10" x 2" offroad brake hub, that would be great and I will buy it, but I need to be sure, as I've been through this before and got supplied with the wrong hubs.

Thanks,
Baz.

[Redback]

We can only hope so Kelvin:D

If he can, I would assume he might get a flood of buyers:)

Baz.

[Graeme]

Are there Defenders with 120 PCD?

Edit: Also, what's the boss dia, boss length and what bearings does it take?

[Redback]

Are there Defenders with 120 PCD?

Edit: Also, what's the boss dia, boss length and what bearings does it take?


I would assume they are a common Ford HD bearing at the least, which is what my axle suits now, didn't ask that as yet, just seeing if they could do the hub with 14mm studs and not 9/16 first.

Baz.

[Peter]

The length of the boss needs to be about 35mm. All the ones I have checked are 40mm (alko included).

All trailer spares will machine 5mm off the boss for $30 a pair. The measurements seem to work otherwise, even on a 200 mm dia hub.

I still need to supply the studs as he hasn't discovered metric.

He is not open on weekends and I am not able to progress this for three weeks due to work that pays getting in the way.

At that time he has agreed to take a wheel and make sure it all works before delivery.

That is if this thread doesn't come up with something in the mean time.

[Redback]

The length of the boss needs to be about 35mm. All the ones I have checked are 40mm (alko included).

All trailer spares will machine 5mm off the boss for $30 a pair. The measurements seem to work otherwise, even on a 200 mm dia hub.

I still need to supply the studs as he hasn't discovered metric.

He is not open on weekends and I am not able to progress this for three weeks due to work that pays getting in the way.

At that time he has agreed to take a wheel and make sure it all works before delivery.

That is if this thread doesn't come up with something in the mean time.

Peter, the guy I emailed has 14mm studs, short and long, give him a call.

I haven't had a reply as yet, I'm guessing he doesn't know there's a difference between the Disco 2/3/4 and Defender PCDs:eek:

[Peter]

Barry,

Will do. I actually spoke to him during the week about his hub caps and didn't think to ask as the web site is all about alko and I didn't seem to get a solution from them as a vendor.


Will let you know how I go.

Cheers PK

[Redback]

Stll no reply, I think my initial thoughts are correct and he thinks all Land Rovers have the same PCD, no idea why he thinks Defenders have a 120PCD.

Oh well back to the drawing board, shame Melbourne trailers don't do them anymore, my first set of hubs where 9 x 2" 120PCD with 14mm studs from them, when I rang them a while ago they said no to 10 x 2" hubs, I might try them again.

Have a look at these guys Peter, maybe give them a heads up that there are a few guys wanting 120PCD hubs for there D3/4 to put on their trailers.

Untitled Document (http://www.melbournetrailers.com.au/Hubs/Product%20Hub%20HD.html)

Baz.

[roverrescue]

Surely there are a few D2 kicking around the wreckers now?
Pilfer the rear stub axles, calipers, hubs and go to town on a custom axle with bolt flanges.

You will then have the exact hub for LR rims.
You will end up with proper bearing in place of dinky trailer bearings and an easily fixable unit in the future.

Steve

[Redback]

Surely there are a few D2 kicking around the wreckers now?
Pilfer the rear stub axles, calipers, hubs and go to town on a custom axle with bolt flanges.

You will then have the exact hub for LR rims.
You will end up with proper bearing in place of dinky trailer bearings and an easily fixable unit in the future.

Steve

It's a great idea Steve, if you have the resouces to do it, I don't and that would cost a fortune to have someone else to do it for me.

What annoys me is, I can't see how hard it can be to take a heavy duty blank hub, drill it to a 120 PCD and fit 14mm studs, they sell the studs, they have a drill set up for 120 PCD, what's the issue really, I know it can be done, I have some 9" hubs at home to prove it.

Baz.

[roverrescue]

A length of 45mm solid or 65SHS6, a couple of 10 or 12mm flanges drilled on the press or lasered/plasma table, a few tabs for dampers and calipers and then 15minutes with a proper MIG. Any old joe engineering shop would do this if you have some drawings for reasonable money.

The rest of the components become bolt on bolt off.

The grief you seem to be going through it would have to be an option?

S

[Graeme]

shame Melbourne trailers don't do them anymore, my first set of hubs where 9 x 2" 120PCD with 14mm studs from them, when I rang them a while ago they said no to 10 x 2" hubs, I might try them again.
They list 10" Commodore pattern for slimline/Ford bearings so only need the 14mm studs if slimline bearings are OK. They list 14mm studs for a LC hub.

[Peter]

I have spoken to Melbourne Trailer and Caravan Parts and the guys at couplemate with the same result being they do not supply a hub which will fit through the standard alloy hubs.

Melbourne T&C parts reckoned they do heaps and they fit without modifying his hubs. I took this to mean they bored they rim. He couldn't confirm how it worked only that the Boss was 40 mm and it was matched with two slim line bearings.

I think it is still a work in progress.

Talk soon.

[Redback]

I have spoken to Melbourne Trailer and Caravan Parts and the guys at couplemate with the same result being they do not supply a hub which will fit through the standard alloy hubs.

Melbourne T&C parts reckoned they do heaps and they fit without modifying his hubs. I took this to mean they bored they rim. He couldn't confirm how it worked only that the Boss was 40 mm and it was matched with two slim line bearings.

I think it is still a work in progress.

Talk soon.

I have 9 x 2" offroad mechanical braked hubs at home that Melbourne Trailers did for me way back when I first went to D2 alloys in 05 on the camper, if D2/P38 alloys fit over the bearing housing, I can't see why D3 alloys won't, my hubs have Ford bearings.

Is the bearing housing bigger on the 10" electric brake hubs with Ford slimline bearings??

Baz.

[Graeme]

Same bearings fit so even if the boss is slightly larger it could be machined.

[Graeme]

Melbourne T&C parts reckoned they do heaps and they fit without modifying his hubs. I took this to mean they bored they rim. He couldn't confirm how it worked only that the Boss was 40 mm and it was matched with two slim line bearings.
The smaller outer slimline (or LM) bearing has an OD of 45.2 mm so not possible to have a 40 mm boss.

Are the 2 slimline bearings 1 larger inner and 1 small outer, ie a standard Commodore pattern hub with 14mm studs?

They produce a 5x120 pcd parallel hub with 2 slimline inner bearings with the boss 76 mm at the outer end and a 105 mm (IIRC) register/hub-centering ring which they believed fitted the Discos until I explained why not. They agreed that the register could be reduced to 79 mm because they do that for Ford rims that have an 80 mm hole but they would not machine the boss to 72.6 mm.

[Peter]

Apologies, I am possibly not being as clear as I need to be. I am sensing my comments have confused some and have resulted in some confusion between the diameter and the length of the boss.

Summary..
The D3 alloy rim has a bore of ~72mm however at the front of the rim and at ~35mm from the inside surface the bore narrows creating an inner lip for the hub cap to clip into. This lip is less than 60mm in diameter.

The standard hubs have a boss diameter of ~60mm and a length of ~40mm. This results in the hub hitting the cap lip with the boss.

The objective is to interchange rims from vehicle to trailer so boring the rims is not the preferred option.

It is possible that some hubs with brakes space the rim further from the hub but I have not found a supplier that can show me so I can measure, but that's more about my inexperience. Hence this thread was started.

[Graeme]

Ah yes, that explains the figures. Baz's X5 rims will have no problem as the cap hole diameter is about 67 mm.

[Redback]

Apologies, I am possibly not being as clear as I need to be. I am sensing my comments have confused some and have resulted in some confusion between the diameter and the length of the boss.

Summary..
The D3 alloy rim has a bore of ~72mm however at the front of the rim and at ~35mm from the inside surface the bore narrows creating an inner lip for the hub cap to clip into. This lip is less than 60mm in diameter.

The standard hubs have a boss diameter of ~60mm and a length of ~40mm. This results in the hub hitting the cap lip with the boss.

The objective is to interchange rims from vehicle to trailer so boring the rims is not the preferred option.

It is possible that some hubs with brakes space the rim further from the hub but I have not found a supplier that can show me so I can measure, but that's more about my inexperience. Hence this thread was started.

So you have tried to fit the alloy to the hub, I'm assuming the boss is the bearing housing and where your refering to is where the bearing cap fits over the end of the bearing housing, yes??

Baz.

[Graeme]

I have 9 x 2" offroad mechanical braked hubs at home that Melbourne Trailers did for me way back when I first went to D2 alloys in 05 on the camper
Are these hubs with separate brake drums fitted? Most standard hubs & brakes these days use a 1-piece hub-drum. The boss dia of the hubs on my box trailer (no brakes) are 55 mm dia at their outer end which is 35 mm from the flange, then a smaller dia cap. If a drum was fitted to these hubs then a D3 alloy would fit. The hub's boss dia tapers smaller from a larger dia at the flange which is not necessarily the same as how a hub-drum is made.

[Redback]

Are these hubs with separate brake drums fitted? Most standard hubs & brakes these days use a 1-piece hub-drum. The boss dia of the hubs on my box trailer (no brakes) are 55 mm dia at their outer end which is 35 mm from the flange, then a smaller dia cap. If a drum was fitted to these hubs then a D3 alloy would fit. The hub's boss dia tapers smaller from a larger dia at the flange which is not necessarily the same as how a hub-drum is made.

Yes my drum hub is one piece, with a pad backing plate, indentical to this, if you look at the pic way back you'll see the bearing cap in the centre of the wheel, I'll see if I can dig up a photo of the wheel.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/10/340.jpg

[Graeme]

Thanks Baz. Obviously the 9" hub-drum casting is a diferent casting to the 10" so could easily have a larger diameter boss. Anyway, your X5 rims will fit Peter's specs even if LR rims wont. If you could find a trailer parts supplier who had a Commodore pattern hub in stock you could try one of your rims to prove the fitment.

[Redback]

Thanks Baz. Obviously the 9" hub-drum casting is a diferent casting to the 10" so could easily have a larger diameter boss. Anyway, your X5 rims will fit Peter's specs even if LR rims wont. If you could find a trailer parts supplier who had a Commodore pattern hub in stock you could try one of your rims to prove the fitment.

I'm searching now, if I can find a place that has the commodore 10" hub in stock, i'll go out and see if my D4 18" rims fit, that should settle this, and also gives me an alternative to the BMW rims.

[Graeme]

An HQ pattern hub would suffice for a fitment test as its pcd is 5 x 120.5.

[Peter]

Baz...

Yes I have taken a rim with me and checked.

Looks a bit silly but have been told "we do heaps" by just about everyone only to find the measurements don't add up.

Then you present the actual rim and watch the face of the attendant as the boss (bearing snout thingy) touches first and prevents the hub from seating properly.




So you have tried to fit the alloy to the hub, I'm assuming the boss is the bearing housing and where your refering to is where the bearing cap fits over the end of the bearing housing, yes??

Baz.
Ty

[Peter]

I am back in the country and while away have taken a bit of inspiration from Redback's post and may have worked out a path forward.

The stud bolts and PCD of the Discovery 3/4 are the same as a VN Commodore. The rear brake rotor for a VN Commodore is non vented, 7mm thick (we need ~5mm to clear the boss) and is a separate item to the hub assembly. Surely this is not considered a spacer. It isn't on a motor vehicle. So I will be asking for your expert thoughts on this one.

If this is deemed OK by the forum responses I may make some inquiries with Main Roads and all things moving forward, it will become the basis for stage two of the project - putting some brakes on the boat trailer.

I measured a new rotor in Autobarn on the weekend and it is ~160mm inside diameter and ~170mm outside diameter. This means that the standard 150mm Al-Ko hub would now fit inside with 5mm hang over and be a good choice as we need 160mm minimum to match the outer support surface of the rim casting.

These rotors are about $65 each at Autobarn, $75 a new pair (e-bay's cheapest) and $35 a pair used from a wrecker. So this is comparable or better to the $60 quoted for machining 5mm off a set of new hubs.

I have an e-mail in at Al-Ko checking the length of the studs so that I can work out if there is enough thread or if I need longer studs.

Otherwise, what is the general consensus?

Does this sound like a reasonable path forward?

Are there any traps/concerns?

Looking forward to the responses before I decide to check Main Roads.

Cheers PK

[Peter]

So close..... and yet so far.

The 14mm studs require a thicker flange (the round flat bit the rim presses up against). The bit at the bottom that secures it would extend out of the 150mm flange as it is not as thick.

This is only possible with a 190mm Flange.

Obviously this has the same Boss snout length issue as the 150mm hub and no clear way forward.

Thought I would let you know.

[Graeme]

Would it matter that the stud shoulder protrudes? Will the nut not tighten or is the knurl dia too large for the stud hole? Are you considering the 45 mm stud with 12.6 mm shoulder or perhaps a longer stud with a longer shoulder?

[Redback]

Would it matter that the stud shoulder protrudes? Will the nut not tighten or is the knurl dia too large for the stud hole? Are you considering the 45 mm stud with 12.6 mm shoulder or perhaps a longer stud with a longer shoulder?

The knurl length is the problem, it protudes past the face, not allowing the nut to hold the wheel up against the face, there are shorter studs available, but they are not easy to come by.

[Peter]

Correct... another name that is used is "snout".


So you have tried to fit the alloy to the hub, I'm assuming the boss is the bearing housing and where your refering to is where the bearing cap fits over the end of the bearing housing, yes??

Baz.

[Peter]

OK enough talk... I have ordered the bits but not as I expected.

Couple-Mate Trailer Parts Pty Ltd
Unit 1 / 136 Glenora Street,
Wynnum. 4178.
Brisbane. Queensland.Australia
Tel : 07 3348 3822
Fax : 07-3348-2939 or 07 3348 5629

Hubs with PCD 5 120.
Studs special fit 14 1.5 they organized it.
2004 Commodore rear rotors - which needs to be drilled to fit 14mm. Repco just around the corner and on special at the time of asking so a bit of luck here.

The boss was still too long even at 35mm but only just. Rather than grind or machine it, I took the spacer option.
The rotor is about 7mm thick where it fits against the flange and is the spacer you have when you don't have a spacer.
The late model commodore rotor (2006+) is vented even on the rear and although it takes 14 1.4 threaded studs, the holes are too large and apparently shifting brake rotors are evil and worse still, the brake calipers for trailers will not open wide enough for a vented rotor. Hence the circa 2004 commodore rotor which is still PCD 5 120, single layer and the last pre metric version so needing a drill to the knurl diameter.
There were two options with the studs and one would fit with knurl however the longer with a extra knurl length will centre the redrilled rotors.

So it will will be ready in a week for picking up and this thread should have some pictures.

Talk soon.

[Peter]

First a few "before" shots...

The is a custom trailer designed and built by Special Trailers at Brendale in 1994. It has done the Kimberly including the Gibb River Road, Bathurst bay at the Cape as well as Moreton Island, Stradie and various dams, bays and waterways in between.


54478
The red tinge is the red bull dust from the Gibb River Road 18 years ago. Nothing has been able to clean it off. It seems to have etched into the gal. Yes I know that is scientifically implausible but scrub, high pressure hoses, industrial detergents and many drives through heavy rain at highway speeds has not dislodged it.

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Second set of rims since new. Salt water is not good to steel.
Tyres were pre-loved when installed and still have most their tread.

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18 years old and ready for a makeover.

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This is an excellent place for a spare on any trailer that is not submersible. This spare position allows the water to pool and it is hard to clean off and dry out.

The dark tinge is lanolin which is awesome and makes it look grungy.

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It looks worse than it is. The springs seem to rust the fastest. This is the second set.
The axle is 50 mm and will outlast me.

I can't use the axle with the RRS rims as the hubs are massive and there is no legal solution to this issue in Aus that I can work out. I use Penetrol and tar paint and it needs another coat or three.

The U bolts and plates are cactus. They ended up getting the cutting wheel treatment.

[Peter]

Then there is the makeover...

Rub down with the wire wheel, a turps rag and a lick of Kill Rust.

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54518

[Peter]

Now the hub, rotor and axle assembled....

I left the wheel nuts on for some to show the length of the threads are suitable.

The bearing cup fits through without modifying the rim.

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[Peter]

This is what the finished hub and rim looks Like...

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Painted the rotor with killrust and then a coat of lanolin.

The axle has been coated in Penetrol a couple of times so far and maybe a few to go.

I am thinking a new set of springs are due in the near future as well.

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The Trailer with its new wheels.

54526

[Graeme]

Success at last!

[Peter]

The next projects include:

Shock Absorbers - as the original ones are really short and not made anymore.
Move the spare tyre.
Fit a roof rack.

[Peter]

And now the "After" photo with the boat repainted as well.

54954

[Tombie]

Looks neat... :)

[Redback]

OK more success, my new hubs arrived yesterday from Melbourne Trailers and Caravans, 9" x 2" mechanical drum hubs 5 x 120 PCD with 14mm x 1.50 pitch studs, will fit them this weekend:D

Baz.

[Redback]

Well I spoke too soon:twisted: the hubs they sent me are wrong, they are basically too deep, instead of being 9" x 1.75" they are 9 x 2.75", because of this, the hub won't go back far enough to allow the bearings to seat on the stub axle, it only goes back as far as the backing plate.

Now I'm assuming that there are longer stub axles, the stub axle I have is 5. 25", which I assume is standard for mechanical brakes.

What is weird, the backing plate and pads look like they are for a narrower hub.

Is there an axle with a longer stub??

Some pics

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/bazzar/DSC00388_zps45cb672e.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/bazzar/DSC00401_zpsad0e8d28.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/bazzar/DSC00395_zps6dd5d996.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/bazzar/DSC00400_zps37805ff4.jpg

[weeds]

Bugger.....I assumed it would be a standard stub for the type of bearing fitted hub

[Graeme]

From the pics it appears that your backing plate brackets are not up against the square section of the axle. My van's old 10" hubs for a new axle that I had made recently require the bracket to be against the square section. Are the new linings 2 1/4"?

[Redback]

From the pics it appears that your backing plate brackets are not up against the square section of the axle. My van's old 10" hubs for a new axle that I had made recently require the bracket to be against the square section. Are the new linings 2 1/4"?

It is Graeme, I made sure that it was hard up against the square section of the axle.

Baz.

[Graeme]

... the hub won't go back far enough to allow the bearings to seat on the stub axle, it only goes back as far as the backing plate.
OK, it must just be the rust that I'm mistaking for a gap.

I don't understand exactly what you're saying above but is it possible that your axle requires the larger Ford/Slimline size bearings and the hubs have been fitted with Holden/LM bearings so wont go onto the axle, or even vice versa where you have a small dia axle and the hubs have larger bearings that float?

What size is the axle across the flats - 40mm or 45mm?

Edit: your stub axle is standard length for standard hubs.

[Redback]

OK, it must just be the rust that I'm mistaking for a gap.

I don't understand exactly what you're saying above but is it possible that your axle requires the larger Ford/Slimline size bearings and the hubs have been fitted with Holden/LM bearings so wont go onto the axle, or even vice versa where you have a small dia axle and the hubs have larger bearings that float?

What size is the axle across the flats - 40mm or 45mm?

Edit: your stub axle is standard length for standard hubs.

No they are Ford bearings, the axle is 45mm, the hub is wider than a standard 9" hub, what is happening is the hub is too deep and the backing plate is stopping the hub from going all the way back so it can seat onto the axle, with the backing plate bolted onto the axle, it falls about an inch too short, the hub rests on the backing plate, I can only just get the nut onto the axle.

[Graeme]

I see that their catalogue lists 2 different 9" Commodore pattern hub-drums, with 1 showing 1.75" (Masport) with no details on the other.

How wide are the new shoes? If only 1.75" then perhaps the 2 1/4" backing plate is shaped to sit back further on the bracket. The hub looks normal width for 2 1/4"shoes.

Edit: I've just looked at the old 2 1/4" backing plates from my van and the plate is dished to move the shoes further back towards the springs. I'll load a pic ASAP.

[Graeme]

Can you compare this backing plate to your ones to determine if this one is closer to the springs?
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/02/1370.jpg

If this is the cause then I expect they will swap your backing plates for 2 1/4" ones.

Edit: I reckon from one of your pictures that your backing plates are flat as a mounting stud and nut is clearly visible which would not be visible for a 2 1/4" backing plate.

[Redback]

These photos might help, the bearing housing is 3/4 of an inch lower in the drum, if it was level with the outer edge it would be fine.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/bazzar/DSC00407_zps34019a55.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[Redback]

Backing plate

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/bazzar/IMG_6884_zps2f37b144.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/bazzar/IMG_6883_zpsf7ec476d.jpg

[Graeme]

The problem is caused by you having been supplied with a backing plate for use with 1.75" shoes and matching drum, yet have been suppied with a 2.25" drum. As your drums are special order, Melb Trailers are unlikely to take them back so would provide 2.25" backing plates and shoes. I suspect that you could do with the extra braking capacity anyway considering the larger wheels.

Even if you specified 1.75" shoes, the supplier made a mistake by sending incompatible hub-drums and backing plate sets so I would be asking for a nil charge change-over of the backing plates.

[Redback]

The problem is caused by you having been supplied with a backing plate for use with 1.75" shoes and matching drum, yet have been suppied with a 2.25" drum. As your drums are special order, Melb Trailers are unlikely to take them back so would provide 2.25" backing plates and shoes. I suspect that you could do with the extra braking capacity anyway considering the larger wheels.

Even if you specified 1.75" shoes, the supplier made a mistake by sending incompatible hub-drums and backing plate sets so I would be asking for a nil charge change-over of the backing plates.

So I'm assuming the backing plate for this drum I have is a flatter plate allowing the drum to go back further??

The plate they have supplied is raised and is not allowing the drum to go back far enough to allow the bearings to seat on the axle!!

[Graeme]

The backing plates for the wider shoes are shaped to go back past the mounting plate whereas the ones you have been supplied with come forwards from the mounting plate. I'll post a pic of the back of one of mine to show the difference.

[Redback]

The backing plates for the wider shoes are shaped to go back past the mounting plate whereas the ones you have been supplied with come forwards from the mounting plate. I'll post a pic of the back of one of mine to show the difference.

Thanks Graeme, just thinking, there must be an axle to suit this combination and I'm assuming the stub section of the axle will be longer, right??

[Graeme]

Here's a backing plate for 2.25" shoes and matching drum. See how the plate is stepped back away from the drum compared with a backing plate for 1.75" shoes.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/02/1358.jpg

[Graeme]

Thanks Graeme, just thinking, there must be an axle to suit this combination and I'm assuming the stub section of the axle will be longer, right??
No, they use the same stub axle.

Edit: You could have fitted 10" brakes to the same stub axle.

[Redback]

Here's a backing plate for 2.25" shoes and matching drum. See how the plate is stepped back away from the drum compared with a backing plate for 1.75" shoes.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/02/1358.jpg

Yes I see the centre where it bolts to the mount on your plate that it is not raised like on the ones I have been supplied.

We will ring them Monday, I'm sure they will realise their mistake and send us the correct backing plate.

I thought you could only get the wider drum hub in 10", guess I was wrong:(

Thanks Graeme,

Baz.

[Tombie]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/bazzar/DSC00405-1_zps180daf8e.jpg

Could I borrow a pen? :)

Seem you have enough spares :cool:



Back on topic - Just checked the trailer here - the backing plate is recessed as Graeme mentioned...