Llams or Rods, which one and why?

[DoctorJ]

Ok guys most of the decisions in my buildup have been easy but this one is driving me crazy, I know a lot of you guys have done one of these but what was the reason as to why you chose Llams or shortened rods?

Cheers
Julian

[WhiteD3]

Rods.

Cheap. easy to fit, low tech, no mods to the vehicle....and they work well.

[sniegy]

Llams,
Simplicity & ease of use.
Install once & dial up when you need it.

Good luck:)

[DoctorJ]

I do like the fact that llams is installed once with no need to do anything further but I also like the fact that with the rods it can be put back to standard and no holes or marks are left, this s my dilemma. Does anyone out there regret getting one over the other and why?

Cheers
Julian

[Ashes]

Don't base your decision on whether the mod will leave any holes or not. Given the build up you are planning a hole here or there is of little consequence. If you are setting up a off road tourer it will get scratched and dented and when you onsell it you won't be restoring it to "on road only" condition anyway.

I haven't got either but I've seen Llams being installed and then in action. I was impressed with the relative simplicity of the install and what could be done with it.

I had a air line fail in my D3 near the front passenger side which resulted in the rear dropping down to the bump stops. I was on a drive above the snow line at the time and could not raise the rear. I don't think rods or Llams would of helped in this situation or even the EAS system. A bumpy and crunching ride back down the hill but the car made it.

If money isn't a problem I'd install Llams. All you are risking is a small chance of a warrantly claim being denied if it can be reasonably shown the problem was caused by the Llams. Alternatively, start with the rods and swap them out for llams when the car is out of warranty.

[adzee]

No option for me... Llams all the way.

Everyone says rods are easy to install, or remove... they are chaeper, but my time, or comfort is worth more. Maybe im lazy but I have had many trips in the wet, mud, snow, etc and I can tell you I hate airing up my vehicle, so having to get in to the wheel well or under the vehicle is not something I would consider convenient.

It costs more, but the flexibility is very valuable. Would have regretted getting the rods having now experienced Llams.

[Graeme]

If the Llams switch is put in the blank behind a D3's EPB switch then a new blank can be purchased at very little cost when its time to remove a Llams to fit to the next vehicle. Its not so easy with a D4 unless the driver's side accessory power outlet spot is utilised. There are more fundamental reasons to choose one over the other.

Edit. I'm too slow - already covered by Ashes.

[chuck]

Llams is great.
I had it in my D3 & will fit to my D4.

You also have to remember that this is cheap compared to traditional spring lifts, the added advantages are:
1. Flick of a switch operation.
2. Raise
3. Lower
4. Normal

So quite literally you can come out of deep snow & on to high speed gravel roads or off the beach on to bitumen.

One thing I found with my OME lifted Prado was that while the lift improved the handling no end it did make it harsher.

Llams gives you the lift when required & then allows the original settings to be restored.

Cheers

Chuck

[Gords]

The thing I like with my rods is that I'm not playing with the complicated computers. Just one less thing to cause an error / inconvenience when I'm out bush.

Personally I find them easy as to swap over between settings. I just use a towel to put over the wheel before I reach in so I don't get dirty and all done in no more than 10 sec per wheel. You only need to change these when your going off road, and when your finished, i do mine at the same time when adjusting tyre pressures.

Good luck, both options are great so you can't do wrong.

[oldsalt]

And just to confuse you even more Doc ... there's this option as well ... check 'em out. IIDTool for Land Rover - GAP Diagnostic (http://gap-diagnostic.com/products/iidtool.html) - quite a few people on Disco3.UK have them and seem satisfied.
I went for the rods by the way, quick and easy, works for me.
cheers :)

[DoctorJ]

oldsalt And just to confuse you even more Doc ... there's this option as well ... check 'em out. IIDTool for Land Rover - GAP Diagnostic - quite a few people on Disco3.UK have them and seem satisfied.
I went for the rods by the way, quick and easy, works for me.
cheers
I did see the IIDTool Oldsalt the only reason I didn't put them on the list is that it seems most Aussies haven't got them but I do like the fact that it reads system errors as well

Gords I also like the fact that there is no connection to the icu to cause problems

Chuck I also love the fact you can change on the fly

Graeme good point returning to standard wouldn't cost much

Adzee if I was to use the rods I would change before I headed out and change back when I returned but agreed that my thoughts are it would get a bit tedious after a while

Ashes I'm out of warranty so it doesn't come into play and part of the buildup is not money related but to do it right first go whatever the cost, I had too many regrets with my last buildup (patrol) so I want to ensure I get it right first time

I have to admit that I'm leaning towards the Llams system simply due to flexibility, convenience and ease of use, but my concern is reliability based on it being electrical as I plan on doing some extensive tours

Cheers
Julian

[Tombie]

Llams all the way...

Road height to the tracks, std offroad mode usually until it gets "fast" then I switch Llams to raised so I can do 50km/h+

Back onto fast dirt and back to normal height

Back into the next tough bit and raise again...


Rods are fine if you go into hard stuff and dont come out IMO, but the convenience of returning to normal in places like Gammon, Flinders, Googs etc easily sway me to Llams...

[Redback]

Llams for me too, easy to use and you don't have to get out of the car, plus customer service is outstanding as well.

Baz.

[BobD]

I have Llams. One of things about the D4 is that many of the terrain response settings cause a lift to off road height.

I find that it is better to mostly leave the Llams on normal height and let the car do its thing. Otherwise you end up with too much lift when they are both activated without you realising it. When you need the extra lift due to speed or an obstacle you can then switch it and check the lift setting on the car at the same time.

With the rods, you will need to change the height setting switch with more care if you have the rods in so that you don't get too much lift when all you want is off road height for 90% of the trip. Not a problem for most people but I am forever not realising that the a change in the TR has caused a lift when I wasn't expecting it and finding I am higher than I expected, unless I leave the Llams off for most of the time.

The other good thing about Llams is that you can lower the car much further than access height, especially in the D4 where you can use a lower setting in Llams. This is good for getting old people into the car and we use it all the time to help my 93 year old mother in law get into the car.

Bob

[gghaggis]

In my mind, the main advantage of the LLAMS system is it's flexibility. It can vary both maximum and minimum heights. The main advantage of the rods system is that it is the simplest possible solution.

There are (IMO) other more minor advantages/disadvantages of each, which take on greater relevance for some than others. One thing I would caution against though, is continual playing with height settings - the compressor is not designed to cope with multiple height changes, and has a tendency to jump into thermal protection mode quite regularly. With the fitting instructions I provide with the rods, I outline a usage pattern that should be stuck to, to avoid such behaviour.

Cheers,

Gordon

[robertj]

LLams
Had mine in for over 12 months and never had any errors, used numerous times on Fraser, Moreton, Bribie and Scenic Rim out of Brissy.

[gedaso]

I've had an IIDTool for some time and find it quite neat.

Sure, it isn't as absolutely bog simple as LLAMS for raising and lowering (you need to turn the vehicle ignition off and then on again to make height changes with IIDTool), but it also lets you check and clear faults, tweak a lot of settings, and many other things.

It also doesn' require any installation as such - just plug it into the OBD port under the steering column, and when done, throw it back into the glovebox etc.

[oldsalt]

Thanks for your comments gedaso ... how about a few more details ? I'm sure quite a few members on here would like to know more about it and it's capabilities....how much you paid for it.... etc etc
cheers

[Redback]

In my mind, the main advantage of the LLAMS system is it's flexibility. It can vary both maximum and minimum heights. The main advantage of the rods system is that it is the simplest possible solution.

There are (IMO) other more minor advantages/disadvantages of each, which take on greater relevance for some than others. One thing I would caution against though, is continual playing with height settings - the compressor is not designed to cope with multiple height changes, and has a tendency to jump into thermal protection mode quite regularly. With the fitting instructions I provide with the rods, I outline a usage pattern that should be stuck to, to avoid such behaviour.

Cheers,

Gordon

Yes, when I use Llams, I make sure it is only used in conjunction with the offroad system, this minimises compressor useage, so basically the Llams is set once, usually the first setting, and then only used again at days end, the second setting is only used if I feel I might need the extra height for large rocky sections or very deep ruts.

Baz.

[Graeme]

My current basic daily routine starts at medium, high for 2 km of my rutted driveway at up to 70 kph then very slowly over the large, jagged rock drains the council has put across the road in several places, off for 10 km of smooth gravel and bitumen, high again prior to slowing from 100 kph for the rocks again, then medium to park all in 20 minutes. I only select off-road height in conjunction with high to gain maximum height when driving over stubble and tall or scratchy weeds (off-road height rather than recovery mode to get the speed warning at 40 kph) and use access height or lower several times on shoppng day.

I'll refurbish the dryer when 'slow to rise' occurs (I must get some spare dessicant) and hope not to replace the compressor too often, but I want to use the height appropriate for the conditions. The prime reason I upgraded from my problem-free D2a was to get variable height suspension. I started developing what later became the Llams height controller well before my D4 arrived because I was going to make good use of it if I succeeded.

[NavyDiver]

LLAMS for me too. The comment about complicated computer might be a little off target. The nifty circuit card in the LLAMS is not at all soft or a sensitive bit in my opinion. It is not a computer. Both would work. I use LLAMS mostly when in really deep water, mud or very rough bits. I have never needed the extra height all day long and doubt many people would (some will/might of course).
Some moderate speed driving between very rough bits presents a increased roll over risk if staying up as high as possible in my thoughts. Most even very rough tracks will have the odd bit where we drive above 40kph. LLams gives immediate ability to get up our down as needed when needed. Think about where you go, what you already do in terms of off road height, what you want to be able to do and then pick what is most suitable for you.

[Tombie]

LLAMS for me too. The comment about complicated computer might be a little off target. The nifty circuit card in the LLAMS is not at all soft or a sensitive bit in my opinion. It is not a computer. Both would work. I use LLAMS mostly when in really deep water, mud or very rough bits. I have never needed the extra height all day long and doubt many people would (some will/might of course).
Some moderate speed driving between very rough bits presents a increased roll over risk if staying up as high as possible in my thoughts. Most even very rough tracks will have the odd bit where we drive above 40kph. LLams gives immediate ability to get up our down as needed when needed. Think about where you go, what you already do in terms of off road height, what you want to be able to do and then pick what is most suitable for you.

More a case of why unnecessarily run the CVs at such angles if you dont need to! ;)

[CaverD3]

You are making assumptions about the angle of driveshafts. Have a look at the angle on access, normal and off road heights. I think you will be surprised.

[Tombie]

You are making assumptions about the angle of driveshafts. Have a look at the angle on access, normal and off road heights. I think you will be surprised.

Not surprised at all... I have looked...

The main, planned operational height is "normal"

Extended height is outside of the normal operating area of the joints, which can and do bed in at normal height.

Also, Camber is off at other heights, changing steering and tyre wear dynamics...


Nope, nothing surprises me that much anymore :cool:

[Steve223]

Just picked up my Disco 3 from Davis performance where I had a secondary Oil Cooler, Llams and a EGR Blanking kit installed.

Love the Llamas flexibility and I will put it to good use during our 3 weeks outback trip starting tomorrow.

EGR blanking made a big different

[stray dingo]

thanks DoctorJ for asking - the same question has been bugging me also.

LLAMS it is.

[101RRS]

LLAMS it is.

Just don't constantly play with it - for me on the bitumen I use the -20 setting (I never use access anymore). On dirt roads normal onroad height and on good offroad I use "onroad +50" and on the tight stuff "offroad +50" but if there is a lot I leave it there to save pumping up and down all the time.

You need to be aware that the compressor is marginal at the best of times but works fine if cold to just move up and down but runs out of puff and overheats if being used to go up and down all the time (like it does without LLams fitted and you want to go faster than 50kph in offroad height).

Cheers

Garry

[Dirty3]

Hi all.
I initially fitted the G.O.E. rods. These work great and for their simplicity are fantastic, plus being able to switch back to std position after a day or weekend out in the scrub is great. Takes but a short moment to do this. Since then I have had the opportunity to install a Llams controller. Still playing around with it in the bush, but found it to be extremely useful and like Graeme, i use it most weeks on the daily drive and or about town, but only when required.
Love the ride options available. But it is mostly for the offroad / speed capabilities for me.

(p.s. I have my G.O.E. rods in the market section for anyone wanting to purchase).

Neil.

[Robocop]

I'm not sure which diagnostic tool had been mentioned previously but I use the fault mate tI adjust the height. Admittedly this is a fiddle as you need the laptop as well as the diagnostic module plugged in to make changes. I have saved three settings, factory, -10mm, +10mm & +25mm. These values are based on the factory calibration levels.

Once the module is unplugged you adjust in cab as you usually would. It also is ably to clear faults & make other adjustments. The price is the highest though..

What I'd like to know is, has anyone gone to the trouble of correcting the camber on the rear wheels if raised? At +10mm it doesn't visually appear to be affected, at +25 & above the positive camber is noticeable.

[Desert Traveller]

Another llams user. Just upgraded the control module from v 1.0 to v 2.5. So much better and much simplier to calibrate.:) For my driving style it takes the stress off the compressor, dropping down when you go over 50kph as happens on the desert tracks.

[AnD3rew]

I just boughtmy Llams, but haven't fitted it yet.

[~Rich~]

I just boughtmy Llams, but haven't fitted it yet.

Got any instructions?
For a D3:
Loom & Calibration
https://www.box.com/shared/zzgi1qs5rt

Switch
https://www.box.com/shared/y90mhxmire

One of the best accessories you can fit.

[AnD3rew]

Where have people got the red mode switch mounted?

I was wondering if I could put it in the blank switch panel on the bottom right of the centre panel to the right of the driver air conditioning controls.

[~Rich~]

The mode switch is not one that you will use often, I fitted mine behind the removable panel under the steering wheel.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/08/5.jpg

Mine is not red though!
I know how to get to it easily if I need to and prefer it hidden.

[101RRS]

What is this mode switch?? I have LLAMS and do not have a mode switch - just the height selector knob and the switch to activate the emergency process.

Garry

[Graeme]

Its the same switch, only that the V2 modules use the switch to enable extra low for later D3s & D4s.

[AnD3rew]

Its the same switch, only that the V2 modules use the switch to enable extra low for later D3s & D4s.

Greame is where Rich has his the place ou suggested putting it, I couldn't work out where you meant?

[Graeme]

Here's where I put my switch:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/11/327.jpg

[Tombie]

Here's where I put my switch:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/11/327.jpg

Ok Graeme, I'll bite...

What are the 'traffic lights' to the right?

[oldsalt]

I was wondering the same thing ..... :eek:

[Graeme]

Its my dual battery status indicator - left is the main and right the aux. As can be seen, the main is low whilst the aux is OK. I made it for the D2, built into the blank where the headlight adjustment switch would be.

Edit: I'm obviously not using a Traxide DBC.

[thomasb]

can some one help me ....i keep hearing about LLams ......what are they? ,, are they an after market improved suspension accessory .........

..and whats the difference between them and the current air suspension on my d4 .................i have normal road height .......raised height .......and access height .................so what do llams do .....relative to this ......are they increased suspension capeability ??? and if you fit them are their any issues with warranty

[discotwinturbo]

LLAMS.com.au

Graeme on this forum will expand more.

Brett

[~Rich~]

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php't=114282
Link to LLAMS

[Steve223]

Installed Llams on my disco 3 before our 3 week outback NSW and QLD trip and that was he best investment ever, absolutely love it. I would say a must have mood

[DoctorJ]

Installed Llams on my disco 3 before our 3 week outback NSW and QLD trip and that was he best investment ever, absolutely love it. I would say a must have mood

Gotta agree Steve after one weekend away and realizing how much beeping happens with the standard setup over 40kmh I also decided that a change was in the wind and after some self analysis realized that I wasn't going to change the rods every time so Llams it was and it worked perfectly on the Wombat/Daylesford trip over the weekend, will be giving a real test in Licola this weekend.

Cheers
Julian

[oldsalt]

Come on Julian .... "it didn't happen if we don't see the photos"

cheers :)

[DoctorJ]

If you look at the thread for the Wombat/Daylesford trip I'm in the photos Peter, look for the guy carrying the teddy:p

Cheers
Julian

PS As for the Licola trip I will post photos next week.

[oldsalt]

O.K. - just checked out the trip report (and the teddy picture), looks like you all had a great day out.
I look forward to joining you next time.
I'll be back from the U.S. in early November and am itching to get out into the high country again, Fifth Avenue may be all very well but I'd rather be up in Omeo heading for the hills.
cheers

[DoctorJ]

Fifth Avenue may be all very well but I'd rather be up in Omeo heading for the hills.
cheers

Agreed love it up there you can never get enough