New to Landrover - Advice please!

[elliottcal]

Hi all,

I've always wanted a Landrover since I was a little-un, and now thinking of taking the plunge and buying a used D3 as I'm looking for something to taxi around my ever growing family. The ones I've been looking at are 2006-2008 and 50-90km SE models (petrol). Anything I should keep an eye out for when looking at these?

1 in particular has caught my eye, but has cream cloth seats...not a great mix with 2 kids under the age of 5. Are there any decent seat covers that are fitted especially for the D3 that won't cost an arm and leg?

Appreciate any advice you guys can give, thanks!

[AnD3rew]

You can definitely get seat overs made for the D3 and they need to be compatible with he airbags. There are some threads here which tell you where to get them but someone will reply I'm sure.

The only thing I would say is that IMHO if you can extend your budget a TDV6 is definitely the way to go ( and. I think will certainly have leather seats ).

[oldsalt]

Try to stretch your budget to get the diesel ... they are much better (IMHO)
This mob do good seat covers... Canvas Seat Covers | MSA 4x4 | Cotton Lined Canvas Seat Covers (http://www.msa4x4.com.au/Products/CottonLinedCanvasSeatCovers/SeatCoversHome.asp) good luck with your purchase,
cheers

[DoctorJ]

Agree with the And3rew and Oldsalt the everyday cost will be reduced dramatically if you go the diesel, after coming from a petrol I wouldn't even consider one now and the diesels drive like a petrol as well so still enjoyable to drive.

Cheers
Julian

[elliottcal]

Hi all, thanks for the swift response. In terms of budget I was looking at the diesel due to it's better fuel effeciency, but budget-wise I'm max'd out just buying the petrol which I can find ones with 40-50km on the clock, diesels for the same price are at 150km+. Given I want to be able to keep the car for a while, getting the petrol seems like the only choice, although I'm still going to run the numbers in terms of running costs.

Speaking of running costs, typically how much does servicing the car cost? Are the usual wear-and-tear items more expensive to maintain (tyres, breaks, etc)?

[elliottcal]

Forgot to also ask, apart from fuel costs does the diesel have anything else over the petrol version that makes it a better proposition?

[Tombie]

Forgot to also ask, apart from fuel costs does the diesel have anything else over the petrol version that makes it a better proposition?

Range!!! No point trying to go offroad if you cant get more than a few hundred kms before needing fuel..

Engine life of a diesel is 300,000km + so a higher km vehicle thats well looked after should give service for quite some time.

Purchase price is the cheap part.. Ongoing fuel costs will hurt you more.

Go offroad with petrol and you will be emptying your wallet very quickly, towing will do the same.

[elliottcal]

300km, wow shows how much I know about these cars! In that case I may have to go against everything I've done in the past with buying and look for a diesel with 150km+ on the clock.

WRT to off-road, no plans at the moment to take it into the bush, but do like the idea of doing it in the future.

[Ashes]

Not an easy decision as there are some clear advantages with buying a diesel but there are other advantages with buying the petrol. It really comes down to budget and realistically determining what you will do with the car vs dreaming of what you might do with the car.

I spent a long time thinking about this and bought the petrol V6.
My thinking when I bought it (06 SE with 36k on the clock purchased 2nd hand in 09)
- it was $10-$12k cheaper than a similar year diesel and at that price, the petrols had far less K's as well. Still looks to be the case today...
- I had that extra cash to cover repairs and any accessories or mods for quite a while
- econonmy would be worse but it would take around 7 years driving at 25,000km a year to make the difference up in petrol vs diesel.
- there didn't appear to be any common show stopping mechanical faults with either rather there were some common traits with both. I didn't feel mechanically either would be a bad option. Each require front end suspension work after around 80k, air suspension compressors need replacing, brakes wear reasonably quickly.
- I personally thought back then that there was more myth than fact in regards to longevity of petrol vs diesel engines in cars. Definately more of a concern with trucks that regularly clock up a million k's. Taxi's also seem to manage very high K's with a 4 litre petrol engines. The big killer of engines is many short trips and poor maintenance as apposed to high km's. For these personal reasons, the petrol engine didn't concern me back then nor does it today.

My actual experience with the car over the last 3 years
- the occassional towing of my box trailer and camper trailer (usually both less than 700kg) are not taxing at all on the V6 petrol. Might be different if I was regularly pulling a horse float or large caravan or boat coming in at over 1200kg. I don't feel I need more power for my modest towing.
- Even though I take it off road, off roading would account for less than 2% of the total KM's the car does. You often drive more k's on the blacktop to get to a track than driving on the actual track itself. I don't care if my economy jumps to 20l/100km for forest tracks or 30+l/100km for sand. It is only a marginal blip in the overall petrol spend. Off road performance difference for the type of off road I do is not a concern. I really don't know if the diesel performs better off road but possibly does with different power characteristics.
- Range hasn't been a problem for me. I haven't done an extended outback trip but if I was I could look at either a long range tank, jerries (or both) but I would then plan to not have to use them. This is where a diesel has the obvious advantage through better economy. If you have no plans of trying to cover 1000km without a petrol stop the diesel is not required
- I haven't needed a snorkel but it is possible to fit one to the V6 petrol with some searching. I just avoid taking the car deeper than wheels anyway. It's our daily driver so I don't fancy flooding it for the sake of driving in deep water for 30 seconds. Even if I had the diesel with a snorkel I'd still be hesitant to risk a deep crossing. I don't do a lot of dusty roads so for me a snorkel is not required. Most accessories are available for the Petrol as they are a common fit between the petrol and diesel. Bullbars and snorkels are harder to source but are available.

After 3 years of ownership, still love the car and it has been brilliant for a family of 5 being used 90% around town, 10% holiday touring (good roads) and only occassionaly in low range and offroad height. I don't regret not buying the diesel yet.

[gusthedog]

Or you could by a really good late model D2 diesel with low k's and spend the rest of your budget on bolt on goodies :D?

[Disco4SE]

Go the diesel. Better more relaxed drive. Better low down torque.
Everyone I know (big statement) including my wife, would not go back to a petrol after owning a diesel.

Happy hunting,
Craig

[Fatso]

Gday , read the comments & opinions and go with your gutt feel and what the wallet dictates , petrol vs diesel ,both have there up and down sides . Anyway a petrol Landrover disco3 is better than no landy at all . Good luck with it and enjoy whatever you get , let us know how it turns out .

[Family Traveller]

I have a statesman with 270,000 ks on the clock that I drive on a lot of big trips (just drove to Sydney, from Melbourne 4 weeks ago and driving back in 4 weeks) and the engine is still tip top (supercharged Petrol V6). It's how they're driven and serviced. With the diesel however there's an old saying, just run in at 100,000 ks, still going at million. I personally wouldn't look past the diesel, especially long trips and towing, all engines hate city driving (stop start)
That's my opinion, good luck with your purchase.

[coolum]

I have been through the same process over the last 6-8 months.

Weighing up the costs of running diesel against V6 or V8 ... looking at what I feel I will use as options against what I think will be important for resale when the time comes.

Many will point out that the V6 and the V8 use similar fuel, The V8 is more expensive for Rego in QLD but the engine has more horses so will not 'work' as hard in comparison .... and against the Diesel the running costs overall can be thought and calculated to be very similar (especially in a second hand vehicle purchase - more so than new vehicle purchase as your coming into the wearout of many components depending on the K's) with repairs and maintanance to the diesel being higher (possibility of turbo rebuild, Diesl pumps etc and the like).

Members here (aulro posts) calculate they seem to outwiegh the weekly fuel bill in most cases...

... then there is always GAS on the V8 to tip the scales as the more ecconomical after the inital 30K kms to 'pay it off' against the offset in fuel bills.

It comes down to personal choice at the end of the day... Drive a couple and see which you prefer ....

I started looking at the S model with the coils thinking that there was less to go wrong ... but after driving an SE with leather and Traction control I decided it was more what I (personally) was after.

I ended up buying a higher K V8 HSE with pretty well all the bells and whistles (leather, Hi sound, Sat Nav, Alpine Roof, Voice cmd etc) and am very happy with the purchase. What a joy to drive... time will tell if my decision was the right one ..

Anyway enjoy the challenge of seeking and securing one of the best vehicles on the road - with your own criteria but make sure you get what you want cos its nearly impossible to retro fit anything (LR options) to it.
Steve

[M D3]

I agree with Craig's reasons for preferring the diesel over the petrol model.

I went from a petrol D3 to a 2.7 D4. The diesel is easier than the petrol to maintain a consistent speed when not using cruise control. It is also better towing than with a petrol model.Won't go back to petrol.

M D3

[jon3950]

I personally wouldn't get anything but the diesel for the reasons already outlined, but Ashes post is a bit of a reality check. I suggest you have a drive of both and see what you think. Then think about what sort of usage you expect.

If you are thinking of taking it off-road, range will be an issue with the petrol. You'll struggle on trips any longer than a weekend. If its just on-road and the odd day trip, the petrol will be fine. But be careful, once the bug bites you'll be wanting to do more with it.

As Tombie says, don't be put off by high mileage. Mine's done 125k now and still feels as good as new. Overall condition and service history are the most important things to look for.

Definately stick to the SE spec to get the 7 leather seats and air suspension if you can - its what makes it so good.

Good hunting.

Cheers,
Jon

[robertj]

Agree with Ashes, I went through the same thought process when looking at the petrol v diesel issue when I bought new in 2008. Don't regret the petrol at all for the same reasons. Big test in a few weeks with a Simpson crossing but made easier having a long range tank.
Either way they are both great vehicles Now the 3L - if only I could convince the wife I need one!

[elliottcal]

Great advice ashes and a lot rings true for me. Most of my use will be short trips with the family at the weekend and towing a box-trailer to and from Bunnings and the tip. I like the idea though of being able to tow a boat (when I get one!) and doing the odd off-road (nothing too severe though).

Given that use, do petrol or diesel engines wear any better than the other?

Also I've been looking at Petrol 2006/2007 D3 with 50-90k on the clock for 35-38k, although I did recently notice that they were both the 4.0l model and not 4.4. Doesn't sound like a lot of difference, but is there?

[elliottcal]

Hi all, didn't realise there was a page 2! Thanks for everyone chipping-in, I will try both and see what I like the best. Going to see a couple this weekend and will let you know how we go.

[roamer]

although I did recently notice that they were both the 4.0l model and not 4.4. Doesn't sound like a lot of difference, but is there?



A couple of extra cylinders with the 4.4 and a nicer sound

[AnD3rew]

A couple of extra cylinders with the 4.4 and a nicer sound


:D:D:D

[TerryO]

If you do a search on here of engine issues with D3's you will find the vast majority of them are for diesels and the cost of fixing them can be horrendous believe me.

The good old story's of diesels doing a 1,000,000 k's or just being run in at 100,000 k's in many cases no longer apply to the new highly stressed engines with very complicated injection systems. If that was the case why are 90% of the issues on here relating to diesels?

The water separator that Davis LR offers for diesels is a very good investment, my D3 has suffered from bad fuel and if I had bought one when I first got the old girl then I wouldn't have had any issues nor the very expensive fix that it will eventually need.

Diesels are fine if you buy them knew and get lots of warranty, second hand without warranty you are taking a gamble. Yes the 2.7 is a great engine and tows easy when going well but you will wish you didn't own one if you have a decent problem. Where as You will struggle to find many complaints about the petrol D3's blowing up or needing expensive repairs.

I'm in the market for a good reasonably priced V8 D3 to replace our D2a, but in the last six months the price second hand for the V8's has gone up, maybe because people are starting to do the maths on fuel costs versus purchase and on going maintanance costs and have worked out how much of a bargain they were.

Cheers,
Terry

[Disco4SE]

If you do a search on here of engine issues with D3's you will find the vast majority of them are for diesels and the cost of fixing them can be horrendous believe me.

The good old story's of diesels doing a 1,000,000 k's or just being run in at 100,000 k's in many cases no longer apply to the new highly stressed engines with very complicated injection systems. If that was the case why are 90% of the issues on here relating to diesels?

Could this be that 90% of D3 owners have diesels??? ;)

Cheers, Craig

[DoctorJ]

Could this be that 90% of D3 owners have diesels??? ;)

Cheers, Craig

Big block engines also fluctuate in price with the petrol price, not that expensive at $1.20 per litre but when it goes up to $1.50+ per litre ouch!!!!! Take it from someone who had one. Oh, and don't be fooled by the whole LPG con as the car is tuned differently to petrol causing it to consume more gas per litre than just petrol and the direct injection gas systems that everyone will recommend they will not take into account the petrol usage you will have, again take it from someone who was fooled!

Cheers
Julian

[gghaggis]

Could this be that 90% of D3 owners have diesels??? ;)

Cheers, Craig

Oooh, statistics, you fickle mistress you ;)

[TerryO]

I'm not so sure that 90% of D3's sold here were diesel.

There are 149 D3's for sale on Carpoint, 66 are diesels.

While this is not exactly a scientific way of working out the percentage of petrol v diesels D3's sold in Australia it would more than likely indicate that there were more petrol engined D3's sold in Australia than diesels.

Cheers,
Terry

[Tombie]

I'm not so sure that 90% of D3's sold here were diesel.

There are 149 D3's for sale on Carpoint, 66 are diesels.

While this is not exactly a scientific way of working out the percentage of petrol v diesels D3's sold in Australia it would more than likely indicate that there were more petrol engined D3's sold in Australia than diesels.

Cheers,
Terry

No it would more likely indicate that 83 people are desperately trying to offload their fuel guzzling, unpopular, Petrol versions. ;)

:cool:

[101RRS]

There have been a couple of failures of 4.0 petrols listed on this forum.

Diesel is the way to go - drove from Canberra to Newcastle this week in my 2.7 TDV6 - drove at 110 kph and the computer showed 6.9l/100km (40mpg) - realistically 7.9l/100km (35mpg) - try that in your petrol gas guzzler.

Driving back in much hotter weather and a head wind and still managed 7.2l/100km (indicated).

Garry

[Disco4SE]

Spot on Tombie. Not too many want petrols. That's why there are so many still for sale compared to the diesels.
Most of the diesels have already been sold ;)

Cheers, Craig

[Mike_S]

I have the V8 petrol and love it. I see exactly where Tombie & others are coming from with the range, round town I'm getting ~400k's to a tank, on the open road it's about 550k's. Bear in mind I'm carrying a rather un-aerodynamic roofrack & spotlights though, they do make a *huge* difference to the lack of economy (4mpg extra without the rack). In lowrange offroad, it's eye watering how much fuel it can get through but hey ho, not much I can do about that. When I bought it, I paid £12k less than the equivalent diesel at the time, that accounts for a lot of fuel. It's done 78,000 miles now and other than a running fault that had LR stumped for a year, the only issues the engine has had were generated by the LPG conversion I had on it in the UK. Now I've ripped that off I've not experienced any engine problems. Once we start using it for extended travel I'll probably end up fitting a long range fuel tank, that's really all it needs. I'll also rob a bank to keep it filled :p

If / when the engine expires I'll likely order a JE built performance unit, but hopefully that wont be for a while. Having said that, if it was possible to convert it to diesel, I'd probably do that. Somehow I don't think it would be quite that easy though !!

[cyclosarin]

The thing to keep in mind is that a diesel engine may last 300-400 thousand k's, but the ball joints, tie-rods, boots, seals, and other moving parts, odds and ends are the same as the petrol model and start wearing out at the same time. These are the things that the mechanic hits you up for when you get it serviced once it's over 150,000kms. Same as any other vehicle.

You still need the timing belt kit changed on the diesel once it hits 168,000k's and that requires lifting the whole body off the chassis. It can be done without that but there isn't much room.

[Mike_S]

You don't need to lift the body off to change the timing belts !!!

Mate in the UK (LR independant) has done loads of them, never lifted the body off. The rear belt is a nasty job, but doable.

[TerryO]

There have been a couple of failures of 4.0 petrols listed on this forum.

Diesel is the way to go - drove from Canberra to Newcastle this week in my 2.7 TDV6 - drove at 110 kph and the computer showed 6.9l/100km (40mpg) - realistically 7.9l/100km (35mpg) - try that in your petrol gas guzzler.

Driving back in much hotter weather and a head wind and still managed 7.2l/100km (indicated).

Garry


Impressive numbers if your on board computer is giving anywhere near the correct information Gerry, in fact not far off what a less than half the weight and size diesel VW Golf is supposed to get in economy.

My similar powered diesel D3 doesn't get anywhere near those kind of economy figures when I work out litres of fuel used compared to actual mileage done rather than relying on what my on board computer says.

Regarding the true running costs and value of any vehiccle one must include depreciation, ongoing running costs (fuel etc) and maintenance and service costs before one knows the true ongoing ownership cost of any vehicle over an average ownership period.

This is usually quite different if the vehicle is purchased new or secondhand.

Just because a petrol powered vehicle costs more in fuel doesn't mean it will cost more to own than a diesel powered version.

If one just bases the cost of ownership on fuel economy alone then one is more often than not is just kidding themselves.

Cheers,
Terry

[101RRS]

The error in the onboard computer is well known for D3s etc - typically it under reads by about 10% - hence my comment 6.9 on the computer and realistically 7.9 - still pretty good in any language.

If you had a Sport rather than a Fridge on wheels you might see better fuel consumption :) - and get a V8 and you will never see it :o

Garry

Ps - Actual to Newcastle and back including about 60km around town in Newcastle - 900km (one tank) return trip and used 78l (indicated was 7.2l/100) and actual on filling worked out to be 8.6l/100km (32.5mpg) - not bad for 2.5t at 110kph or around town. Highlights the errors in the trip computer but also the economy of the 2.7.

[ghoti]

Went through the same deal when I purchased my D3 in 2007. Diesel $11K more than the equivalent Petrol model. I had the fleet manager where I was working run 3 year projections on both and his advice was go the diesel as while purchase price was higher, depreciation was significantly less too. Add to that high mileage we do, and if we're not towing a 2 tonne boat we're towing a 19 fooy caravan.

Yep, I could buy a lot of fuel for $11K, but there is also a difference in capital vs operating costs. Once the purchase cash is handed over (or loan papers signed) it all pretty much becomes part of every day life...but each stop at the bowser is generally gunna sting more with the Petrol.

We never got to find out if the numbers worked - when the car was approx 18 months old with 50,000km on the clock my son put it into a stand of gum trees at 110kmh (fell asleep with cruise control on). Insurance company was livid as only two others were on the market back then and so the payout was only $3,500 less than what we bought it for :D

And our current vehicle? A D4 TDV6 3.0. Sweet as!!!

Ultimately they are both good cars, but with kids you gotta have leather. No matter what they spill, a damp cloth and its as good as new.

Cheers,
Scott

[cyclosarin]

Yep, I could buy a lot of fuel for $11K, but there is also a difference in capital vs operating costs. Once the purchase cash is handed over (or loan papers signed) it all pretty much becomes part of every day life...but each stop at the bowser is generally gunna sting more with the Petrol.


Most people borrow money to buy a vehicle, which means you are paying 30 to 50% more on top of the $11k over 5 years. Weekly fuel doesnt cost you interest.

[grumpa]

I'm with Ashes on this. I would love a TDV6 but can't afford it. Given my circumstances, the Petrol V6 is my (2nd) choice. Ashes said you need to use the diesel at 25K a yr. for 7 years to get back your money. Can't argue with that either. One thing that needs to be taken into account is replacement of the drive belt (TDV6) at 120000 ks and I'm told it costs about $1500. Aside from that, everyone I know (especially me) loves the ride quality on my Petrol version.

[elliottcal]

So I took a couple of petrols and diesel D3s for a drive at the weekend and couldn't tell the difference. It's going to come down to price though and the petrol version stacks up on the initial purchase, plus as we're not doing lots of long journey's, off-roading, or regulary towing large boats, the fuel cost doesn't match the extra cost of the diesel.

Slight spanner in the works though, the Mrs hates the interior....apparently it looks too old! So we're going to take a look at some other (newer) non-European 7 seaters this weekend, and hopefully get back to buying a D3 on Monday :) She's also got her heart set on a Volvo XC90, so may have to buy 2 cars!

[BobD]

If she doesn't like the D3 interior maybe she should have a look at a D4, before looking at the other cars you are talking about.

Bob

[elliottcal]

Nothing coming up for D4 on carsales within my budget across the whole of australia regardless of KMs or pertrol/deisel :(

[Ashes]

One of the major selling points for us on the D3 was the width of the 2nd row seating, near full size 3rd row seats (comfortably big enough for adults) and the large boot space. Massive when the 2nd row seats are down. A very practical and comfortable car for between 2 and 7 adults. This space was a priority for us. Something for you to consider when looking at other cars.

[ozscott]

The D4 interior is just so much better than the D3 its insane. Its very Range Rover. Having said that the D3 interior smacks of being more utilitarian which suits some people and some build ups.

Apart from 1-2 hot mile TD's modern TD's are not a million k proposition like the old naturally aspirated mechanical fuel injection motors were if well looked after.

It depends also on how long you are holding the vehicle for. If you are thinking a 10 year or more proposition and are looking at very h k's and probable engine re-build try to find out what those things costs in petrol v diesel.

Cheers