What would these bits be on a 300tdi?

[mike123]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/86360624@N07/

Well, the recently purchased 300tdi Disco had the following in the sump. I don't mind carrying a few spares but never in my sump as a rule. Just want to put this out there for your collective wisdom.

It has 255,000kms on the clock; had a blown head gasket at 208,000 at which time I'm led to believe the dealer reconditioned/serviced the head (evidently they are suppose to when a head gasket blows my LR mechanic tells me). So the questions which we are working through are: was it a lazy mechanic who left some 'spares' in the sump at some time; did they float down from up top; could they be bits of old value insert seats; what are those long spring looking things in the second picture; why would you take the sump off to reco the head unless there was another problem at sometime? We've yet to pull the rocker cover off and have a good look from the top as well as a good look from the bottom.

Also, the motor doesn't make any clunking or unusual noises prior to discovering this mess and given the amount of mess you'd think it should make some strange noise.

Either way, the moral of the story is to pick a good mechanic recommended by someone that you know.

Pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/86360624@N07/

[rick130]

Well, the recently purchased 300tdi Disco had the following in the sump. I don't mind carrying a few spares but never in my sump as a rule. Just want to put this out there for your collective wisdom.

It has 255,000kms on the clock; had a blown head gasket at 208,000 at which time I'm led to believe the dealer reconditioned/serviced the head (evidently they are suppose to when a head gasket blows my LR mechanic tells me). So the questions which we are working through are: was it a lazy mechanic who left some 'spares' in the sump at some time; did they float down from up top; could they be bits of old value insert seats; what are those long spring looking things in the second picture; why would you take the sump off to reco the head unless there was another problem at sometime? We've yet to pull the rocker cover off and have a good look from the top as well as a good look from the bottom.

Also, the motor doesn't make any clunking or unusual noises prior to discovering this mess and given the amount of mess you'd think it should make some strange noise.

Either way, the moral of the story is to pick a good mechanic recommended by someone that you know.

(still trying to upload pictures, sorry about that)

There's a couple of ways to upload pics.

Have a read here www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/25511-how-post-photos-forum.html

[Tank]

Mike, take the bits out of the oil and photograph them on a piece of white paper, at first sight some of the parts look like the remains of a roller lifter, the spring/coiled wire thingy has me stumped, I would also remove the valve cover and make sure everything is still in place, take some more pics (well lighted) up into the block past the crank and of the rocker and valve spring area also, get back with the pics, Regards Frank.

[langy]

Removing the rocker cover should help - in your pics there are a couple of collets there - easy to loose down the sump, but there are a couple of valve stem seals there too. They are not so easy to loose.

Take the rocker cover off and go through the tappet adjusting sequence. If any of the stuff in your sump was recent, it will show up during this procedure.

My guess, if there are no bad noises in the engine, is that the stuff in your sump is old, from a previous job. ( That spring thing is not 300tdi - I reckon it just got lost and chewed up a bit before settling into the sump.)

ps - re pics. It's easier if you reduce your pics in size before uploading with 'manage attachments' - the file sizes are listed in that particular window.

[Roverlord off road spares]

The long bits look like swarf, drilling spirals?

[rick130]

Mike, take the bits out of the oil and photograph them on a piece of white paper, at first sight some of the parts look like the remains of a roller lifter, the spring/coiled wire thingy has me stumped, I would also remove the valve cover and make sure everything is still in place, take some more pics (well lighted) up into the block past the crank and of the rocker and valve spring area also, get back with the pics, Regards Frank.

The springs will be off the stem seal collars Frank.

Also looks like the remains of a stem cap too, which isn't unusual.

How the hell did the stem seals get all the way down there ?

[rick130]

The long bits look like swarf, drilling spirals?


Naa, I'd put money on stem seal springs ;)

[Blknight.aus]

old previously disintigrated valve seals.

[justinc]

Yup, Valve stem seal bits and valve stem caps, pretty much what you'd expect if the valve clearances have been left too long between checks and the rocker arm hammers the cap to bits, they soon break up and drop down the pushrod hole into the sump. They can't do any harm down there.:)

The valve stem seal bits; unusual to see them so mangled, possible though if one or more broke up and got chewed up in the vlave spring, then they too will get washed down the pushrod hole into the sump with the returning oil.

Either way, they aren't bearing bits, piston skirts, cam follower parts or anything else 'critical'.

JC

[JDNSW]

......
Either way, they aren't bearing bits, piston skirts, cam follower parts or anything else 'critical'.

JC

But they do sort of indicate the level of amintenance the vehicle has had in the past!

John

[rick130]

But they do sort of indicate the level of amintenance the vehicle has had in the past!

John

Stem caps are pretty much a consumable on Tdi's though, even though not mentioned in any service schedule.

[uninformed]

Stem caps are pretty much a consumable on Tdi's though, even though not mentioned in any service schedule.

I know there are going to be variables, but at what sort of kms?

[rick130]

I know there are going to be variables, but at what sort of kms?


JC could give you a better idea, I can't remember when my last set went ta ta's but I probably should replace the current ones before they give up the ghost too.

Actually it was JC that tipped me off to them being consumables.

[Blknight.aus]

174839km. or whenever you build the head.

whichever comes first?

[mike123]

Thanks for the tips, we'll have the rocker cover off tomorrow and check it out from there. The head was serviced at 208,000kms when there was a blown head gasket and the car has 255,000kms on it now. My guess is that when the head gasket blew at 208,000kms they went in saw the missing valve stems, etc and serviced the head then. They then left the old broken bits that had fallen through in the sump. That would be the most favourable/'cheapest' option for me.

The car was serviced by a LR dealer for the first 210,000kms so I would have expected better maintenance but after 210 to 255K kms the servicing seems a bit haphazard.

It's good to know that they are more consumables than critical in nature but still should be checked out. (and I'll try perfecting the photos :-) )

[justinc]

Tdi Valve clearances are very commonly missed at service times, I don't know of too many people ,apart from enthusiastic owners or repairers in the know, who actually do them:(

JC

[roverrescue]

Tdi Valve clearances are very commonly missed at service times

JC they are not merely "missed" this is a very deliberate conspiracy by most workshops to perpetuate that unmistakable 300tdi tune. I reckon I can pick that top end tinkle from 500m!

S

[justinc]

Tdi Valve clearances are very commonly missed at service times

JC they are not merely "missed" this is a very deliberate conspiracy by most workshops to perpetuate that unmistakable 300tdi tune. I reckon I can pick that top end tinkle from 500m!

S

yup, that pulse in the intake is a dead giveaway, too. btw, that spring measured 44mm:D

jc

[schuy1]

Yep, Agree with all the a fore said re being broken caps,seals.
As an aside does that mean my Tdi at 307000 ks is abnormal in never having chewed up 1 of those consumables? I have owned it since new, always serviced it myself and do the clearances every 40000.
Mind you I am always waiting with bated breath for "the sound" :D

[goingbush]

looks like theres the remains one of these in the sump :eek:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/09/1007.jpg



.

[schuy1]

looks like theres the remains one of these in the sump :eek:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/09/1007.jpg



.


HaHA Wouldnt surprise me :D I remember pulling the sump off a 250 falcon 6 and finding a perfectly good 9/16 Minimax R/O'er in the sludge!!:eek: It looked brand new when I cleaned it up. Have often wondered how much the Mechanic got chewed for breaking up the bosses new toolkit!! :D

[Blknight.aus]

Did a call out for someone after they'd had a "service" done and the vehicle had been dropped off and was making "a hell of a racket"

Found a 13mm ROE, flat head screwdriver and a feeler gauge under the rocker cover.