Just how unreliable are our cars

[poleonpom]

Time for a bit of a rant.
I got a flat going over the Westgate and had a VicRoads van come along and follow me over. Driving on the rim buggered the tyre, so I had to stop and change it. The van driver cane over and started telling me that Range/Land Rovers were all unreliable. I asked him how many he'd attended pver his career and he told me I was the only one! I told him that mine was a flat tyre, not a breakdown, so the score was zero, however he had attended a fair few other 4x4 breakdowns. So why do our cars get rubbished so badly?

[bee utey]

Because all the average bogan knows that LR is weak pommie **** unlike those ozzie icons, the Tototas????:mad:
It's just mindless tribalism, ignore them and drive on.:p

[Mick_Marsh]

I had a flat on the ring road round Geelong a little over a week ago. Most of my failures are flat tyres.
About a month ago, the ignition switch fell apart. I've been plagued by flat batteries for the past few months but that was predominately because I was too tight to buy a new one.
I've been put off the road by the RTA because the old sump gasket had crazed and was leaking oil.
I destroyed my transfer case. My own fault. I used the wrong oil. It drove to the repairers.
I had to walk sixteen kilometers one night because a fuse blew.

Since buying it in 1992, using it as a daily drive until 1998, and having it parked until about three or four years ago, I've got to say it has been a really good bus. Second most reliable car I've had. The most reliable one being a VR Commodore.

Over quite a few years of car ownership and quite a few cars, I've found regular servicing, preventative maintenance, and treating the vehicles with care is the secret to a reliable car.

A mate has an old Toyota Camry. It has been through three family members. It has never broken down. That is the most reliable car I have ever seen.

[superquag]

Because they are unreliable... :angel:

Seriously, a combination of factors. (like "life", it is'nt that clear-cut...)

Reputations start somewhere, with something. I'd suggest 'British Electrics' as a good example of bad design, executed with cheap materials and in the case of Headlight beam-switches, under-specified, to be polite...
Apparantly it is common for the IGN switch mechanism to come apart on certain models.... (Or most of them).

If you own a Classic, then chances are you have already replaced window switches... and the ventilation fan speed controller. Or you WILL in the near future. Or the previous owner did.

Glorious stuff-ups like the door mechanisms - ( handles from the Morris Marina) - that demand regular adjustment.- Failure to do so will ultimately result in a snapped-off exterior handle. Classics and D1's.

If yours is an early Classic, the metal channel under your side windows is rusting out. Or has, but the glass has'nt yet popped out of it. Rain does this... as it also attacks the frame of your back window. - Which is not galvanised, or prepped properly, nor painted with a durable top-coat. My cynical guess is that the alloy used is..... :angel:

These are what can best be described as 'nuts & bolts' technology... straightforward basic stuff that the Japs invariably get 'right'.

Bottom line, the Original owner of my car paid over $95,000 back in 1995 whilst the most expensive/fully optioned Jap cars were around $60K. Check the resale value of them today.

Apologies to any Land-Rover owners getting a good run...(NONE to Solihull...) but after 8 Jap cars (4 brands) over 45+ years, as well as one German and three Aussies.... I've never had to replace a stuffed switch or had any ECU play up. But collectively I've done in 3 alternators and one starter-motor, and no rust that threatens to let go of a window. Seeing as only one was brand-new, I must have been exceptionally lucky. But I've had around a dozen flat tyres, none have been the fault of the car...

IMHO, the only thing LR got 'right' is the concept of soft spring-rates combined with enormous suspension travel. (RR Classic) The advantages gained by Spencer-King and his Engineers were slowly but surely squandered by inept management and disinterested / depressed workers...

My Classic is nice to drive for a variety of reasons, but 'fiscal responsibility' & 'reliability' are not amongst them...:twisted:

[superquag]

Over quite a few years of car ownership and quite a few cars, I've found regular servicing, preventative maintenance, and treating the vehicles with care is the secret to a reliable car.

A mate has an old Toyota Camry. It has been through three family members. It has never broken down. That is the most reliable car I have ever seen.

-Agree 100%,
and,
- Lots of folk say the same thing about them...

[PaulP38a]

If you want reliable, do not buy a VZ Commodore/Crewman. The 3.6L V6 Alloytech has a dodgy cooling system and my Crewman Ute has recently developed a habit of leaving one bank of indicators on after the car is locked. I suspect a BeCM problem but cannot find a cheapish diagnostic tool to talk to it... makes my 2 P38's and Freelander look quite reliable.

I had urged my son to buy a mid 90's Camry as a cheap reliable car... instead he bought a 1991 Lexus/Toyota Soarer 2.5L twin turbo... hated it until I took it for a drive. Am now thinking that I need more parking space to make way for a Soarer (V8 or turbo) and sell one of my P38's to appease SWMBO :eek:

[alittlebitconcerned]

Least reliable car I've ever owned, no contest. I have owned many many cars and this one beats them all in terms of ongoing issues.

[Camo]

Least reliable car I've ever owned, no contest. I have owned many many cars and this one beats them all in terms of ongoing issues.

What do you have? P38? Early D2 Td5?

[rick130]

Never been stuck, but it has stopped several times but I've been able to get her going again.
Lots of silly little little niggling things, but I knew all about that before I went in to Landy ownership over ten years ago.

Our GU Patrol has been the very model of reliability so far.
One small problem under warranty, the transfer pump from the second tank failed and that was the only warranty issue, and it's done two radiators. One rad was definitely stray current and I suspect the first one was as well, and one small axle seal oil leak that weeps a touch then stops for a month or so.
Just over 400,000km now and still the original clutch too, and it's spent most of its life towing.
It would have been a vastly different story if we had the hand grenade ZD30 engine fitted instead of the TD42T though. Thankfully the ZD30 wasn't an option for the utes back in the day, and I'd been forewarned by a mate in the trade anyway. (2001)

Would I get rid of the Defender though ?

Nope, like it too much.

[30t of coolness]

All vehicles have a degree of built in (cost cutting)faults & niggly problems , you want stray voltage in the radiator get a WG Jeep Grand Cherokee (along with a hot butt from the cracked seat heaters smouldering in the seat foam) , A cracked head 300 Tdi , 3l Patrol ,Injector problems Toyota D4 or V8 diesel anything also Pathfinder / Navara diesel , Window regulators VW Golf , Disco 1. Dual mass flywheels , What a waste of time ! Particulate filters that block up due to Australian fuel & then must 'Regenerate' Blowing copious clouds of no doubt toxic crap into the air. Stuff all modern cars I will work on them , But I'll stick to my 2a thanks[thumbsupbig]

[Keithy P38]

I'll stick up for our marque too, the only problem I've ever had has been a punctured airbag. Other than that it's been oil changes and pleasurable motoring!

[Mick_Marsh]

What do you have? P38? Early D2 Td5?
Horse and cart?
Hint: cart bit goes behind. I know the driver sits with the exhaust in front of his face but that is how they were designed.

[superquag]

Forget the 'unreliable' car...
-More to the point... what brand of puncture-prone tyres are on your car ????

:p:p:p

[poleonpom]

Forget the 'unreliable' car...
-More to the point... what brand of puncture-prone tyres are on your car ????

:p:p:p

Ha ha - one puncture and 2 dodgy schrader valves, not the fault of the Dunlops

[SPROVER]

If you want reliable, do not buy a VZ Commodore/Crewman. The 3.6L V6 Alloytech has a dodgy cooling system and my Crewman Ute has recently developed a habit of leaving one bank of indicators on after the car is locked. I suspect a BeCM problem but cannot find a cheapish diagnostic tool to talk to it... makes my 2 P38's and Freelander look quite reliable.

I had urged my son to buy a mid 90's Camry as a cheap reliable car... instead he bought a 1991 Lexus/Toyota Soarer 2.5L twin turbo... hated it until I took it for a drive. Am now thinking that I need more parking space to make way for a Soarer (V8 or turbo) and sell one of my P38's to appease SWMBO :eek:

If you want a cheap diagnostic tool get the APP called "TORQUE" on your android phone.Costs $4.95. Then all you need is a Blue tooth dongle which cost me $22.95 off ebay.Plugs into your OBD2 port and away you go.Gives you all codes its throwing and has the ability to clear them as well.I got one for my LS1 Calais and its awesome.Has all the gauges on there and pretty much everything the computer is doing.If you need anymore info let me know and i can give it to you.If the P38 and Disco 2 have on OBD2 port then it should work on there as well.Sorry to hijack the thread. :D

[parasnoop67]

My p38 is a gems model which are supposed to be the worst but mine has always been ok. Main problem I had was a failed waterpump bearing which caused a blown head gasget. Luckily it happened coming into the driveway. Went off on a flat bed. A stuffed fuel pump gave me enough warning to get home without the tow truck. A blocked fuel filter on a club trip caused a 15 minute delay. A leaking rear hub seal and a front wheel bearing cost a few bob.A front steering rod was replaced as were shockers(bilstiens) and air bags (gen3's) A new battery, a centre muffler, disc pads twice, some tyres and wheels, and other small bits. This car was bought at 163000 and now has 273000 so for a vehicle that sees a fair bit of off road and some of it pretty rough, I dont think that's too bad. It's also got a M A R S system and has had 1 height sensor replaced about 2 years ago since which it hasn't has an eas fault.
I think that many of these trucks don't get maintained the way they need to and this causes many of the problems. Did I mention a radiator, another water pump, thermostat, viscous coupling, sensor, brake accumulator, fan etc. Still largely maintainance. They are complex and they do wear out but if maintained properly then ok...............A series of punctures till I got rid of the Coopers. No flat Wrangler mtr's and no flat Bighorns. 1 destroyed Toyo Open Country at's.

Just my 2c worth.

[Wallyb]

I think that many of these trucks don't get maintained the way they need to and this causes many of the problems. ....... Still largely maintainance. They are complex and they do wear out .

I agree totally they are very reliable when opperated and maintained within the wear limits of the componts.

Consider the average P38 .. over 10 years old

the EAS ..
-the hight sensors would go up and down how many times over an average 2 km trip? now move your volume knob on your home stereo that many times each day for 10 years and see how it survives.

-The airbags are made from rubber and can not be compared to metal springs. They are a replaceable part like any other rubber component that flexes so significantly. I have replaced rubber bushes on cars with lower kms

-the compressor is a moving part... valves and air lines need servicing just like any other mechanical cable/adjustment type assembly

Consider the HEVAC ..
-love those blend motors, 10+ years, multiple adjustment per day, electro mechanical devices bound to need servicing

I just replaced my alternator .. show me a car that doesnt need an alternator repair after 200-300k

I could go on .. but this is a car that has a LOT of electro-mechanical devices, it has a lot of electronics for its day and it introduced a lot of inovations that made its peers look backward.

Seriously - If you choose to own/drive a P38 or any older Land Rover because you want - a reliable never get grease under your finger nails car - then you have choosen the wrong brand (or have deep wallet)

I have owned 2 series landies, a defender, a classic RR and now my P38.

I like these cars because I love the ethos.

I am Wallyb .. and I am a Land Rover-aholic

PS I cant speak for the newer cars .. but my defender which I bought new in 98 - was faultless for the 3 years i owned it !...before a marrige and child spelt its doom :wasntme:

[David]

If you want a cheap diagnostic tool get the APP called "TORQUE" on your android phone.Costs $4.95. Then all you need is a Blue tooth dongle which cost me $22.95 off ebay.Plugs into your OBD2 port and away you go.Gives you all codes its throwing and has the ability to clear them as well.I got one for my LS1 Calais and its awesome.Has all the gauges on there and pretty much everything the computer is doing.If you need anymore info let me know and i can give it to you.If the P38 and Disco 2 have on OBD2 port then it should work on there as well.Sorry to hijack the thread. :D

Hi Sprover
Have you tried this yet on your P38, my understanding is that it is not a OBD2 compliant port on the RR it is a derivative and these units do not work but would be interested if you have had some success with it.
Regards
David

[SPROVER]

I don't have a P38 but thought if they had an obd2 port that it might work.I'm not sure what the p38 uses but it works well for most obd2 Compliant cars.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[1976_michelle]

No more or less so than any other I think, Ive recod an engine on a toyota crown (after the head gasket replcement unfortunately), various other bits and pieces steering components and ball joint (that one was scarey), very little to do on the two fords I owned (only go tlet down when something or other needed a clean with throttle body cleaner wouldnt run on petrol), the first disco perhaps more to do than the other vehicles (starter motor early in my ownership, and radiator later in) but most of the unreliabilities were to do with the LPG systems and even then not enough to turn me off LPG. Thing I found with the LR was no so much complexity of problems, or expense of parts (parts are not a lot worse than any modern car though they were a shock to the system after replaceing Crown parts), it was mechanic panic when you turned up on the doorstep with a sick disco but this was 8 years ago, and I think they always surprised themselves when they got stuck in to the issue and didnt die from the experience

[Hoges]

I don't have a P38 but thought if they had an obd2 port that it might work.I'm not sure what the p38 uses but it works well for most obd2 Compliant cars.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

Years ago I bought an ELMSCAN something or other for an LS1 Calais (first of the VX type). I plugged it into the MY99 (Bosch upgrade) P38 and it revealed in about 2 seconds flat that one of the O2 sensors was U/S... sure enough:D There are some additional proprietary LR codes but the mandatory stuff demanded by the Californian legislation (from whence OBDII originated) is all there... 'This device will also handle the Digimoto software but it doesn't allow one to reset the codes... it's fairly old now in development terms...that's why i stick with Faultmate!!

[SPROVER]

Years ago I bought an ELMSCAN something or other for an LS1 Calais (first of the VX type). I plugged it into the MY99 (Bosch upgrade) P38 and it revealed in about 2 seconds flat that one of the O2 sensors was U/S... sure enough:D There are some additional proprietary LR codes but the mandatory stuff demanded by the Californian legislation (from whence OBDII originated) is all there... 'This device will also handle the Digimoto software but it doesn't allow one to reset the codes... it's fairly old now in development terms...that's why i stick with Faultmate!!

If you use the "TORQUE" application for the android phone you can clear the codes as well.Its a great tool to use.Only costs $4.95 as well.:D I wanted to get the code read for mine at the local mechanic and they wanted $60.:eek:

[redandy3575]

Onya Poleonpom for saying it how it is,lol.

Look, to be perfectly honest here, the P38 is a bit of a money pit in the sense that you have to keep up the maintenance to stay on top of the potential problems that may occur in the future. The fact is though, the P38's in my view a relatively easy vehicles to work on, and parts are usually readily available. Would I recommend it to someone looking to buy a reliable family tourer with little mechanic knowledge or experience???........ No!! Would I recommend it to an enthusiast who isn't at the mercy of a mechanic and can work on the vehicle himself???....... Most definetely!!

Remember too, we're dealing with a 10 year old plus vehicle here, wear and tear will by now start taking its toll. The question is this, how do you think you would go working on a Landcruiser or Patrol of that same era? Field repair and maintenance I found on the P38 is quiet simple, as history shows, Land rovers in general are designed to be repaired in the field rather than the workshop.
When I went to Cape York in mine, I had full faith in the P38, and amazed a lot of onlookers when tackling the old Tele track. Not many realised that the Rangie kept up with the big guns all stock standard except for the snorkel.

[Aussie]

My P38 was the best vehicle to drive and the most comfitable but it was a POS when it came to reliabilty. Would never buy one again. It was serviced regulary and well maintained but little things kept breaking all the time which in the end added up to a lot of $$$ and a lot of grief.

[redandy3575]

My P38 was the best vehicle to drive and the most comfitable but it was a POS when it came to reliabilty. Would never buy one again. It was serviced regulary and well maintained but little things kept breaking all the time which in the end added up to a lot of $$$ and a lot of grief.

I hear you Aussie,lol...........i hear

[superquag]

Before I had my Senior's Moment (and paid way tooo much for my Classic) an independant LR workshop counselled me to 'never-EVER drive a P38'.

"Why not?"

(sanitised version)

'Because they drive so well you'll be powerless to resist buying one.... and they're constantly needing repairs. I like them not...'

I'm thankful for his sage advice, - I didn't realize how much of the car was built from biological waste ! :p

[benji]

I wouldn't know if the P38 is unreliable, because I've never owned a substandard 4wd like a GU or 80 etc:p

[bronzie66610]

Hi all
Our Disco 2 249,990 k's no probs, our Defender 130 minor axle clicking issues, but after 120,999 k's issue stems from incorrect pinion setting on rear diff. Now the series 2a. It is 44 years young and still fires up first go after sitting around for 5 years (removed plugs , upper cyl. lube and wound over a few times to get oil pressure up. Replaced plugs and vroom) It has been all over the place and its reliability is probably due to servicing and preventative maintenance. Have had Subaru's (Trans. problems and heads) and numerous other cars, not much to complain about. JUST SERVICE AND DO PREVENTATIVE MAINTENANCE. I must add my 2A suffers from the usual places in door tops and firewall, MY FAULT for not doing all the preventative maintenance. I have it on fleabay at moment. Cannot look after all my cars now.

[parasnoop67]

I must say again that my p38 is as reliable as any of the "other brands" that I go bush with. Some are better than others and it's usually the well serviced ones that are the least troublesome. When you drive in mud and steep rocky ground and through water, then of coure it's hard on the vehicle, unless you love it and look after it really well. If you're not prepared to do that, any 4wd will cause you grief.

[DT-P38]

Cousins 80 series land cruiser TD crapped itself the other week... at approx. 350,000 km's.

$14,000 for reco engine change :0 Oh what a feeling!

Makes my $5,500 p38 new short motor change over from a couple of years ago sound real cheap!

When the time permits I am gonna sit down with him and do a proper comparison of 10 years of ownership costs and see what the real world difference is for our two vehicles...

Maintenance is key to reliability, but sometimes you just pick up a lemon. And I reckon LR factory made a few too many p38 lemons through pushing the "best 4X4 by far" envelope a bit too far on this model.

Some of the troublesome technology just doesn't justify itself, even when it is working properly.