Stupid fines (it's not revenue raising)

[tribute_landy]

Was on my way to work the other day with my wife. On the way i passed a traffic cop on a motor bike. The female officer had just finished booking someone (the bikes lights were on and the car she booked pulled out in front of me). I noted that she proceeded to enter the traffic behind me......so being extra careful i continued down the street doing the speed limit, make a right turn with caution, cop follows....continue down the road, police officer signals to turn off and i signal to turn into a bus set down area (no buses present) wife exits the car, signal to leave......cop then pulls up at window tells me to stay(no lights)......pulls up just in front of me puts lights on (WTF??? i think)...lower window....."sir....can i have your licence please?" i oblige..... then she says "do you want the $50 no demerit point fine or the $300 3 point fine?" "what for" i say "use of a bus bay".....It perplexes me for a second then i say "seriously....all i was doing was dropping my wife so she could catch a train"..."why can't i use this are?????,"it's a public danger" she replys (there is no one around). "how about a warning officer???" "No i have to set and example to other people" (still no one around). So it goes on till she gives me the most stupid $50 fine i have ever heard of.

I have nothing against police officers. I know many of them as friends, but surely this must be a pure and simple revenue raising thing. I know now that it is wrong to drop at a bus bay but i didn't at the time.....sometimes warnings are better......for the publics knowledge and the police services reputation.....

Whats the most stupid fine you've received?

[d@rk51d3]

She wasn't the same one who booked a woman in WA for talking on her mobile while pushing a pram?

Thankfully it went to court, and got thrown out.



Personally, I was driving home from work one night and got pulled over for a RBT just out of town.
Would have been around midnight, I pulled over for the regular "blow into this untill I say stop".
Wind down my window as one of the officers walks up. When he gets to the car he says: "OH! Sorry mate, I thought you were a woman. You can go."

WTF!?!?!?!
oooooookaaaaaaaayyyyyyy. "Have a good night." I replied as I drove off.

[tribute_landy]

She wasn't the same one who booked a woman in WA for talking on her mobile while pushing a pram?

Thankfully it went to court, and got thrown out.


Can't rule it out.......

[d3syd]

Personally, I was driving home from work one night and got pulled over for a RBT just out of town.
Would have been around midnight, I pulled over for the regular "blow into this untill I say stop".
Wind down my window as one of the officers walks up. When he gets to the car he says: "OH! Sorry mate, I thought you were a woman. You can go."

WTF!?!?!?!
oooooookaaaaaaaayyyyyyy. "Have a good night." I replied as I drove off.

WTF alright:confused::confused:

Maybe he was trying to get a date....

[101RRS]

Why would you stop in a bus stop with a cop behind you??? It is an offence to stop in a bus stop.

Silly action that tempted fate and fate got you.

Yes petty, but .........

Garry

[d3syd]

That really sucks, tribute_landy. Some of these cops must get off on the power rush fining people for trivial matters. She should get off her high horse and start doing something useful, like catching crims for starters.:mad:

[Homestar]

Pulled over for a RBT once and the officer asked "Have you had anything to drink in the last 2 hours" I replied - "Yes, I've has a stubbie and a glass of wine with tea" "Ok" he says "you can go"...

That one left me a bit confuzzled, and i'm not sure why I was allowed to drive off without the test...

[jx2mad]

Having dropped our daughter at Sydney airport at 5am I was on my way home through north Sydney. I was pulled into a breatherliser test spot. I wound the window down and the young officer approached and said "Have you had anything to drink tonight sir". I gave him a strange look as we had been to bed and got up. Also the sun was lighting up the eastern sky my wife saw my look, leaned over and said " but it is morning officer". He stepped back, looked at us and told us we could go. Poor bloke must have been there all night!!:p:p:p

[CraigE]

Having dropped our daughter at Sydney airport at 5am I was on my way home through north Sydney. I was pulled into a breatherliser test spot. I wound the window down and the young officer approached and said "Have you had anything to drink tonight sir". I gave him a strange look as we had been to bed and got up. Also the sun was lighting up the eastern sky my wife saw my look, leaned over and said " but it is morning officer". He stepped back, looked at us and told us we could go. Poor bloke must have been there all night!!:p:p:p

There is a reason. Most booking occur between 4am and 8am for drink driving.

[Hymie]

In my Old Mini Panel van, sigh, THAT brings back memories....
Anyhow, heading down the street, sunny day, window open, elbow on the door top hand on the wheel just cruisin' and I get pulled over.
Copper-Can you explain to me why your limb is protruding beyond the body line of the vehicle, sir?
Me-Er um uhhh what?
Copper-Here's a $40 on the spotter for it, have a nice day and drive safely sir.
Me-:(:(:(

[TD50WA]

That really sucks, tribute_landy. Some of these cops must get off on the power rush fining people for trivial matters. She should get off her high horse and start doing something useful, like catching crims for starters.:mad:

You know, I don't like some of the thing the boys in blue do either, but I hate comments like that even more.
You have obviously never had a mate/family member killed in a crash caused by a dimwit who thinks they can drive how they like regardless of the other road users. The same dimwits who complain like hell when they get caught driving like a dimwit.
1000+ people roughly die on our roads every year and they are someone's family/mate.
Just imagine if we had no police keeping the dimwits at bay and were instead out "catching real crims"......by the way, I rate people who kill people as real crims regardless of how they kill them.
I try to drive within the law, that way I don't get tickets. If I do get a ticket, it's because I deserve it and would cop it sweet.
It's a pity dying in a car crash is socially acceptable and not seen as a "real crime" if it was maybe there would be a better response and resourcing resulting in a lot fewer of our family members ending up dead because of a few selfish dimwits. End of rant.
Cheers:mad:

BTW, I was not implying the original poster was in this league, just the above quoted reply.
Cheers:D

[Mick_Marsh]

I drove up to a stop sign one night. I wanted to turn right to go home. There was a RBT set up in the middle of the road on the left. Copper directs me to go left. "I want to go right" I said. Go left he said. So I did.
Drove into the RBT and with the window down. " I want to go the other way" I said pointing over my shoulder. "Go round" the copper said making a circular motion with her arm. "But they're double white lines" I said. "Go round" she said, so I did.
So I drove round and pulled up to another copper who was going to ask me to blow into his machine when another copper came over saying "He's been in the other side".
They waved me through without testing my breath and it took four coppers to do it.
All rather pointless really.

[Hall]

On one of my birthdays I picked up a car from a dealer then called into the Vic roads and picked up the plates. Had a permit to drive a car with out plates. So went out for my birthday with the intent to fit the plates when I had time. On the way home got pulled over by the police. Got fined for not having the plates fitted. Did not matter that the permit was current till I fitted the plates and no warning. Another fine I incurred was doing a right hand turn from the lane next to the right hand turn lane. Intersection was a right pain for right hand turning traffic as there was either a immediate left or you could travel straight on. Those wishing to travel straight on would as I did turn from the through lane. No it was wrong, no problem with that. What sucked was they were siting on folding chairs and casually waved you over to fine you. The next day the extra turn lane was marked out. Just a blitz to raise revenue before the line marking was done. Have been waved through a breathalyzer because I was driving a Volvo. Those in front and behind me where all pulled over. Cop took one look and waved me through.
Cheers Hall

[Slunnie]

Passing a bus that was doing 90 in a 100 zone. I got booked for doing over 100km/h and coasting down. I asked the policeman if I should only be doing 100km/h while on the wrong side of the road. He said that was the speed limit. :(

That was Bredbo for the skiiers.

[DeanoH]

Got done once for shooting on a Sunday. Early to mid '70's I reckon, copper let me and my mate off 'cos we didn't have a shooting license :confused: and booked my other mate instead who did have a shooting license.
We were all guilty as hell but I don't think he wanted the additional paperwork. Book one, jobs right, move on.

Deano :)

[d3syd]

You know, I don't like some of the thing the boys in blue do either, but I hate comments like that even more.
You have obviously never had a mate/family member killed in a crash caused by a dimwit who thinks they can drive how they like regardless of the other road users. The same dimwits who complain like hell when they get caught driving like a dimwit.
1000+ people roughly die on our roads every year and they are someone's family/mate.
Just imagine if we had no police keeping the dimwits at bay and were instead out "catching real crims"......by the way, I rate people who kill people as real crims regardless of how they kill them.
I try to drive within the law, that way I don't get tickets. If I do get a ticket, it's because I deserve it and would cop it sweet.
It's a pity dying in a car crash is socially acceptable and not seen as a "real crime" if it was maybe there would be a better response and resourcing resulting in a lot fewer of our family members ending up dead because of a few selfish dimwits. End of rant.
Cheers:mad:

BTW, I was not implying the original poster was in this league, just the above quoted reply.
Cheers:D

WOW calm down Kev, calm down :eek:. No one is saying that your so called dimwits should not be dealt with to the letter of the law and cop it sweet.

Any fool can tell you there is a huge difference between hooning, drink driving, reckless driving, etc and safely dropping someone off at a deserted bus stop. Yes it might be against the law to stop at a bus stop, but how about exercising some discretion and issuing a warning instead of a ticket? The offender will know better next time and goodwill will be retained.

All I am saying is the police should be not wasting their time booking people for trivial infringements in situations that don't make a ounce of difference to road safety. They should instead be on the look out for proper idiots or crims on the road.

BTW, FYI yes I have had a friend killed in a road accident, so don't be presumptuous...

Cheers;)

[lochie]

Was on my way to work the other day with my wife. On the way i passed a traffic cop on a motor bike. The female officer had just finished booking someone (the bikes lights were on and the car she booked pulled out in front of me). I noted that she proceeded to enter the traffic behind me......so being extra careful i continued down the street doing the speed limit, make a right turn with caution, cop follows....continue down the road, police officer signals to turn off and i signal to turn into a bus set down area (no buses present) wife exits the car, signal to leave......cop then pulls up at window tells me to stay(no lights)......pulls up just in front of me puts lights on (WTF??? i think)...lower window....."sir....can i have your licence please?" i oblige..... then she says "do you want the $50 no demerit point fine or the $300 3 point fine?" "what for" i say "use of a bus bay".....It perplexes me for a second then i say "seriously....all i was doing was dropping my wife so she could catch a train"..."why can't i use this are?????,"it's a public danger" she replys (there is no one around). "how about a warning officer???" "No i have to set and example to other people" (still no one around). So it goes on till she gives me the most stupid $50 fine i have ever heard of.

I have nothing against police officers. I know many of them as friends, but surely this must be a pure and simple revenue raising thing. I know now that it is wrong to drop at a bus bay but i didn't at the time.....sometimes warnings are better......for the publics knowledge and the police services reputation.....

Whats the most stupid fine you've received? G'day.The ruling was that you couldn;t pick anyone up from a bus stop,which is fair enough.If she is right then she is only doing her job and has no idea of fair play or good judgement,possibly reaching a given quota.I can sympathize with you.Lochie

[zwitter]

Like most drivers I occasionally slip over the speed limit or fail to indicate in roundabouts. If I get stopped and fined I cop it sweet and pay and thank my lucy stars for all the times they did not pick on me :)

Once got booked for towbar obscuring the number plate. I had just fitted the towbar neck so could attach the trailer. Car parked outside my house and trailer on the front lawn. Got the fine regardless. :(

James


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[jc109]

An ex of mine on her way to see friends was directed by an adjacent police car to pull over and she had no idea why. When she'd stopped and wound the window down the copper walked over, leaned in towards her, and said "I've pulled you over for wearing too sparkly a top.". She said "I don't have time for this. I'm running late." And drove off. She was livid! What an abuse of power.

[Blknight.aus]

Why would you stop in a bus stop with a cop behind you??? It is an offence to stop in a bus stop.

Silly action that tempted fate and fate got you.

Yes petty, but .........

Garry

its an offence to pull over and stop in other than the left hand lane too.

Id've asked which lane I was supposed to stop in

[DefenderJim]

I got pulled for speeding a few years back, cop waved me over to the side of the road then motioned for me to drive right to the rear of his car before signalling me to stop..he then walked to my window and said "Why have you stopped in front of a driveway?" :eek:

The Old man got a 200 and something $$ fine for obscured number plate.. He had just had a rear wheel carrier fitted for his spare and the shop had screwed the number plate to the spare wheel tight causing it to concave (still clearly visable from the rear), the cop walked to almost 90 degrees and said it was obscured from the side and didnt have the complete viewing angle..Wrote the ticket then told him that if he hadnt had a plate at all it would have only been a $80 fine...WTF??:confused:

[Homestar]

I got pulled for speeding a few years back, cop waved me over to the side of the road then motioned for me to drive right to the rear of his car before signalling me to stop..he then walked to my window and said "Why have you stopped in front of a driveway?" :eek:

The Old man got a 200 and something $$ fine for obscured number plate.. He had just had a rear wheel carrier fitted for his spare and the shop had screwed the number plate to the spare wheel tight causing it to concave (still clearly visable from the rear), the cop walked to almost 90 degrees and said it was obscured from the side and didnt have the complete viewing angle..Wrote the ticket then told him that if he hadnt had a plate at all it would have only been a $80 fine...WTF??:confused:

I would have taken that one further. The regulation is that the number plate must be clearly visable from 20 metres and a 45 degree angle. That would have been thown out in court.

[rick130]

There was a station copper in a nearby town that was booking all the utes in town for unsecured loads, think a bag or two of dog food or horse feed or some fencing gear, country town, Land Cruiser, Patrol, Hilux and Navara utes everywhere.

He became really popular when one girl he'd previously booked for one unsecured 25kg bag of dog food (I kid you not) booked her again for the tail on her tie down rope being too long, it was something like 200mm and the regulation is 100mm or so.
He was actually carrying a ruler down the main street and measuring ropes :eek:

He was transferred not long after that......

[rick130]

I copped a speed camera fine two months ago at the speed camera just down the road.

I know I wasn't speeding when the flash went off, but I reckoned the car going the other way was, so I stopped, jotted the time and my speed and waited.

Sure enough a fine arrived in the mail.

I'd had the week from hell work wise, plenty of stress, stupid long hours, I'd been studying too and I was supposed to be packed and going away for a five week course the next day and hadn't even started packing, let alone finished all the work that had to finished.
I blew a fuse, how the hell was I going to fight this ?
I knew damned well I was in the clear, but their photo and data said I was speeding in the Deefer ?

I then noticed the infringement notice said I was travelling south, when in fact I was going north.

Ha, got em, so I fired off a 'Request for Review'

About four weeks later SWMBO got in touch with me and said a letter arrived stating "sorry, we sent the notice to the wrong party"
Hmm, more like they sent the notice to the most visible number plate.

[Disco Muppet]

I lost 3 points, and copped a $445 fine a while ago.
I was the designated driver, 2 passengers under 21, at about an hour past curfew.
Driving slowly up the main street, cop follows and pulls me over, does the breath test. Asks why I'm carrying more than one passenger.
"I'm the designated driver Ma'am"
Hand over all three IDs, here's your fine have a nice night.
Thing that really annoyed me was that both the people I was driving home had been let off for much worse, including having 13 people in his car...
That was when I decided NSW police wasn't a career I was interested in :mad:
I mean..yes. Illegal. Fair enough.
Wasn't speeding, nothing to drink, and the cops drove past the lads in their ricer wagons dragging up and down main street, to pull me over for 1 extra passenger.
So yes. I get that there are perfectly decent cops out there, who contribute to society by using their discretion appropriately.
And there are some real bastards too.
Left me with quite a skewed perception of NSW police, and a sick feeling every single time I see a cop car :( :nazilock:
Mum had a cop run her number plate once, because she waved to a friend parked next to a cop. Cop rang her up asking if she wanted to go on a date because he thought she was waving at him :eek:

[SuperMono]

To add some positives.

I can recall my one and only camera fine (75 in 70 zone leaving rural township at 7AM) that I thought was a bit stiff, but can't recall any negative experience relating to driving and the police. Boys and girls in blue have been courteous at all times and the one radar speeding fine I picked up (on my bike) was marked down as well below the speed I had been travelling.

Some good eggs out there as well.

Parking 'officers' I am not so keen on......
'Safety' camera placement strategy I am not so keen on.....
Red turn arrows that stay on are my pet hate.....

[George130]

Not me but my mum. Booked in 1980 for parking in a disable spot in Sydney and not displaying a NSW disabled sticker but an ACT disabled sticker.:angel:

We flew out of the country the next day for 3 years. Suffice to say she didn't pay or get the court summons while over seas. Back in country for a week when the cops came to take her to jail over it. Best bit being they could not hndle a wheel chair bound person so he was on house arrest for 2 days till they could get a judge to dismiss it. Total wast of police time.

[zwitter]

My old MK IV ford zephyr had a yellow door for a while. I drove from home near Parramatta to go out with the boys at the Oaks hotel in Neutral bay about 20k.

Got pulled over for a " random" license check and they picked over the car. It was in good order apart from the door. Nothing found. Off I went. A couple of km down the road pulled over again. For another "random" license check and pick over the car. Still nothing. On my way again and a few km down the road pulled again same random checks and very thorough check of the car.

On my way again and almost to the Pub and once again pulled over this time out of the car hands on the bonnet empty your pockets etc WTF. Takes license and runs it and the car. I hear the shout over the radio, "Leave the poor bugger alone" as she rattled off my details from memory without hesitation "what's so f....ing good about this guy all you barstards want to run him and his car......4 times in 30 minutes. Whats ..."

Was very rare car in Sydney, even rarer with yellow door. I think the young driver was the red flag for them.

James

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[Homestar]

Just want to post a good news story from the boys in Blue from waaaay back in the past when I was on 'P' Plates.

I was pulled over in my yellow HJ Panel Van at 2am as I was heading home after DJ'ing a 21st Birthday party - all my gear in the back - amps, speakers, and nearly 600 records and CD's.

I was asked to step out of the car, and was ushered back to the Police car, where I was asked dozens of questions about the vehicle and it's contents. After about 10 minutes, the 2 Police Officers conferred with each other, then the other cop cam e over and asked me all the same questions again - I was getting worried by now.

After about 1/2 an hour, they came up to me and let me in on what was going on - there had been a report an hour earlier of a yellow panel van leaving an Electronics store after having broken into it, and they thought it may have been me! They appologised for the time they had taken and left me to it.

2 weeks later, I was pulled up for speeding (about 125 in 100 zone) and the Officer that came up to the car looked at my licence and said "Oh I remember you - I pulled you up the other night when we thought you were the thief - sorry about that - on your way":)

Dodged the speeding fine and got an appology from the cop - you don't see that every day, but I really appreciated it let me tell you.

[manchild21000]

3 point and $330.00 .Reserving out of my driveway ,not wearing seat belt because i cant see out of the truck ,canopy and all and had to watch my letterbox so i leaned out and looked .Quiet street ,no through traffic .
George

[Treads]

Sounds like some poetic licence is being used in some of these 'stories' :rolleyes:

[superquag]

.. and here's me thinking it's legal to take off the seat-belt whilst reversing (only) ...:o

- Don't ever flash your headlights, no matter how brfly to indicate to a copper that his lights are on 'HIGH'. In daytime... - Even if you're both waiting at traffic lights...
At the same time, dunno if its legal for him/her/it to flash his from behind you, unless he's overtaking...

[Treads]

.. and here's me thinking it's legal to take off the seat-belt whilst reversing (only) ...:o


It is..... In Victoria at least

[V8Ian]

It is..... In Victoria at leastAnd Queensland.

[manchild21000]

Yes , thats what i said . However hes view was that i was already moving forward a good 20 metres before i put my seatbelt on .I cant stop in the middle of the road to click it in , i suppose to change gears to move forward , steer the car straight and put my seatbelt on at the same time . Technically a fine but not very fair . I could have explained better in the first place admittedly .
George

[Bigbjorn]

Best bit being they could not hndle a wheel chair bound person so he was on house arrest for 2 days till they could get a judge to dismiss it. Total wast of police time.

Local Senior Sergeant told me this one. When the booze buses wear the flavour of the month, they had some specialist staff and the local stations had to provide some. On this occasion some young copper decided to breath test a senior citizen driving down the footpath on his electric scooter. WTF, Grandpa blew .32!

So, they have a frail aged 84 y.o, blind drunk, and no facilities to monitor his medical condition or ensure his safety as per duty of care and they are required to charge him with the high level drink driving charge. His scooter also needs to be secured. The watch house told them in no uncertain terms not to take him there. The Gov. Medical Officer told them to take him to the PA hospital which has secure wards. PA said bugger off, we are busy with Friday night drunks and don't need another. It was decided to drive him home and proceed by summons and a copper was detailed off to drive the scooter home.

The story teller being the Senior was tucked up in bed whilst this was going on. He heard about it the next morning when he went in to the station. A Commissioned Officer 'phoned him and proceeded to tear strips off him and he wondered what the hell was this about. He got the blame for not training idiot constables in discretion. The Senior at the booze bus got a similar reaming. As **** flows downhill, the juniors all got a big serve and their cards marked so the Noncom mafia would know their form whenever they transferred.

[solmanic]

In my Old Mini Panel van, sigh, THAT brings back memories....
Anyhow, heading down the street, sunny day, window open, elbow on the door top hand on the wheel just cruisin' and I get pulled over.
Copper-Can you explain to me why your limb is protruding beyond the body line of the vehicle, sir?
Me-Er um uhhh what?
Copper-Here's a $40 on the spotter for it, have a nice day and drive safely sir.
Me-:(:(:(

This obviously doesn't happen much anymore thanks to air conditioning, but I have always wondered why they would book you if your arm is no further out than the rearview mirror.

Also, can anyone tell me what the regulations are for a happy but well secured dog hanging out the window? Is this regulation meant to be for the health and wellbeing of the car passenger or pedestrians?

[mudmouse]

I lost 3 points, and copped a $445 fine a while ago.
I was the designated driver, 2 passengers under 21, at about an hour past curfew.
Driving slowly up the main street, cop follows and pulls me over, does the breath test. Asks why I'm carrying more than one passenger.
"I'm the designated driver Ma'am"
Hand over all three IDs, here's your fine have a nice night.
Thing that really annoyed me was that both the people I was driving home had been let off for much worse, including having 13 people in his car...
That was when I decided NSW police wasn't a career I was interested in :mad:
I mean..yes. Illegal. Fair enough.
Wasn't speeding, nothing to drink, and the cops drove past the lads in their ricer wagons dragging up and down main street, to pull me over for 1 extra passenger.
So yes. I get that there are perfectly decent cops out there, who contribute to society by using their discretion appropriately.
And there are some real bastards too.
Left me with quite a skewed perception of NSW police, and a sick feeling every single time I see a cop car :( :nazilock:
Mum had a cop run her number plate once, because she waved to a friend parked next to a cop. Cop rang her up asking if she wanted to go on a date because he thought she was waving at him :eek:

Don't worry mate, we were all young once....but you have a licence with certain conditions - passenger restrictions - which was introduced because young blokes and their passengers are over represented in crash statistics.

So plod does what he's asked to do - enforce a law - and she's a 'real bastard'?? because you chose not to follow your licence condition...

It's a lot of money and the demerit points (you accrue demerit points, not lose them), but it's up to you isn't it.

I know this is an open forum for yarns, letting off steam and war stories, but stroll into any business and tell a bloke how to do a job, or what they should be doing because it's not what you like, and see how you get on.

If your mates had been let off for much worse, tell the Magistrate or get them (mates) to pay your fine? It's your responsibility.

Good luck mate, and if you reckon booking young blokes for a 'minor' offence (deterrent) is harsh, trying going to a fatal prang and them knocking on mum and dads door - that's what these 'real bastards' have to do.

There's good and bad people in every job, but you keep your nose clean and play by the rules, and you'll be right.

All the best.

Matt.

[bussy1963]

The coppers where i use to live were great.
One copper was hard as nails he would book anybody including his own wife one day for failing to wear a seat belt. But in saying that if Billy said you did this offense you knew it was exactly what you had done wrong. There was no grey areas.

The old-man died on Christmas day a few years ago and my brother who had lost his license a few months earlier. Decided he needed to get to home A.S.A.P as you would. He was pulled over by the cops for speeding. Luckily for him the cops knew of the old-mans demise and one of the cops drove my brothers car to home while the other followed.

Now that is what you call good policing

[Disco Muppet]

At no point was I going to walk into the cop shop and say "you're doing it wrong, this is how you should be doing it"
Up to that point I had been keen as to be a copper, I'm doing criminal justice at uni ffs.
But it's about putting it into perspective.
She picked me, out of the ricers dragging up the main street, and chose to throw the book at me, not for speeding, drink driving, tearing up the main drag.
I was trying to get my mates home.
Kid in SA (different laws, I know) got booked with 9 people, even made the news, half my fine.
One bloke in the car, cut off someone at a roundabout, wrote off two cars and nearly killed 3 people.
Half my fine.
The other bloke has been pulled over for everything, speeding, drink driving, etc.
Not a mark against his name.
I have no desire to be an accident statistic, nor do I think all cops are ****** who have a cushy job, I've seen a few accidents myself, not something I enjoy.
It's about an appropriate use of discretion.
Consider what the outcome would have been if she let me off with a warning, official or not.
I would think "****, that was lucky, better not do it again. The cop was nice though for letting me go"
As opposed to now, whenever I see flashing lights anywhere near me I feel sick to my stomach. :mad:
Ever try arguing your point as a young fella, and everyone thinks you're just being an arrogant and selfish person who thinks the world revolves around them?

[digger]

I am probably a bit one eyed here as some of you know,
but let me just point out those couple of points I keep repeating
..
If I get a cupboard made and its crooked or wonky, it doesnt mean all carpenters are bastards...

If I am using a screwdriver to lever something and it breaks or bends, its not the salesmans fault, there are guidelines for use...lets not call them guidelines lets call them laws... if I go outside the guidelines and nothing happens well, life is sweet I suppose... But if I go outside the guidelines and something does go wrong or I get caught then surely the one to blame is myself... It doesnt matter if Im levering something small or big if Im caught Im caught.... just like life.

Can you tell me that everyone in your profession is briliant and works to exactly the same way or methods? I doubt it..



I wont go a lot further into this type of post..I poured my guts out in a previous post in dec 08 and although it was quite helpful at the time I am not going over it all again..

Suffice to say you may not agree with all we do but until you walk a mile in my shoes -you arent qualified to judge me without knowing me. I dont generalise about anyone I meet and try to judge each person on their merits etc and I hope that most can see their way to do the same for us.

Rant over. (sorry!)

[mudmouse]

At no point was I going to walk into the cop shop and say "you're doing it wrong, this is how you should be doing it"
Up to that point I had been keen as to be a copper, I'm doing criminal justice at uni ffs.
But it's about putting it into perspective.
She picked me, out of the ricers dragging up the main street, and chose to throw the book at me, not for speeding, drink driving, tearing up the main drag.
I was trying to get my mates home.
Kid in SA (different laws, I know) got booked with 9 people, even made the news, half my fine.
One bloke in the car, cut off someone at a roundabout, wrote off two cars and nearly killed 3 people.
Half my fine.
The other bloke has been pulled over for everything, speeding, drink driving, etc.
Not a mark against his name.
I have no desire to be an accident statistic, nor do I think all cops are ****** who have a cushy job, I've seen a few accidents myself, not something I enjoy.
It's about an appropriate use of discretion.
Consider what the outcome would have been if she let me off with a warning, official or not.
I would think "****, that was lucky, better not do it again. The cop was nice though for letting me go"
As opposed to now, whenever I see flashing lights anywhere near me I feel sick to my stomach. :mad:
Ever try arguing your point as a young fella, and everyone thinks you're just being an arrogant and selfish person who thinks the world revolves around them?

Yeah, I understand your reaction but I'm only referring to your post about 'use of discretion' - what's that? It's the decision by a person to take action or not, and in this case the choice was to take action against you. Just because a decision doesn't go our way, does not make the decision wrong, that's just an opinion.

So yeah, by saying they 'should' have done something else, among other posts of 'having something better to do' is telling someone how, or what to do in their job.

Offering a reason of not speeding, drink driving etc, isn't relevant - no one should do those things - and 'just trying to get your mates home' isn't a reason either. I'm not trying to have a crack at you but look at it this way...

...You want a licence and you go through the training and expense of getting it, the tests and an understanding of possible consequences of breaking the law. With that knowledge and experience, you go out and are the designated driver - great, good man. But you have a passenger restriction on your licence, so that then limits your capacity as a designated driver. If your mates have licences, then they would know that too, but are they going to drive you around everywhere if/when you get suspended, or pay the fine - no, they just want a lift home. In town, there's taxis, accommodation and parents to call....therefore options, so you aren't 'forced' to break the law and jeopardize your driver licence.

It's always about choices, not being a victim and 'forced' into lawbreaking. If you continue with studying Law, you'll find the Courts have a nickname for 'the Accused' or 'Defendants', they're called 'punters', because they know why they're before a Court and what actually happened, but they're having 'punt' as to the outcome. Just as people have a 'punt' speeding or drink driving or what have you.

Your fine, as a penalty notice, has a fixed amount. I guess your option may include taking it to Court and seek leniency, or a caution given your described circumstances. Most fines with demerit points, once taken to a hearing, have the fixed amount on the notice annulled, and a maximum penalty of $2200. So there's a punt, on top of a possible period of disqualification. That's the Court, not Police.

From the Police officers point of view, and no matter what your mates say, is that for demerit point offences, cautions should not be issued. 'Discretion' and cautions are reserved for minor offences, that if prosecuted would not be in the community interest. By minor, I mean a Summary Offence.

The argument of fairness when someone is 'let off' and another prosecuted is a fact, but the issue is more a case of the Police officer letting someone off and therefore not doing their job, rather than the other being a zealot. If it's the same or similar offence, then the rule should be applied evenly otherwise what's the point in having that law?

As you say, a caution may have worked better for your attitude toward Police, but that Police officer, despite a Commissioners instruction about cautions, can't assess your character and whether or not you won't do it again - they've got a bloke with a fresh licence, the most recent training and knowledge.....and he's breaking the law. Cautions for traffic matters don't generally work - people go to gaol for traffic matters, get out and re-offend?? How many ad's do we have to watch, RBT sites and stupid 'Speed Kills' signs to drive past, and roadside memorials do we have to see before that collective warning sinks in?? You may not have been doing any of those things, but think about why that rule (passenger restrictions) is in place - it ain't about you, it's about novice drivers in general.

As for arguing your point as a young bloke, look at your argument. There isn't one. It's just a mistake or poor decision. You get fined. It happened to me (a bit) when I was on my P's, but think the best way to deal with it is to move on and not do it again.

It's just my two bob mate, but not a situation that should make you crook in the guts every time you spot a Police car.

I hope you get over that feeling mate.

Matt.

[Disco Muppet]

Sitting in your car, with red and blue lights all around you not knowing what's happening or why isn't a sensation that leaves you quickly.
There's a bit of a difference between a sign on the side of the road or an ad on telly, and a cop with their pistol at eye level leaning in your window saying "don't do it again".
I get it, I broke the rules. I paid my fine and got on with it.
Doesn't mean I have to think it was under the fairest of circumstances.

[digger]

Bugger, double post.... sorry!

[digger]

Sitting in your car, with red and blue lights all around you not knowing what's happening or why isn't a sensation that leaves you quickly.
There's a bit of a difference between a sign on the side of the road or an ad on telly, and a cop with their pistol at eye level leaning in your window saying "don't do it again".
I get it, I broke the rules. I paid my fine and got on with it.
Doesn't mean I have to think it was under the fairest of circumstances.

By this I hope you mean on their hip? The first time I read it I thought you may have meant otherwise.

Maybe another way to look at it is,
continue your study, join and use this experience as a lesson to use when you are in the other side of that same situation.

But if this experience has caused you this much angst I would suggest another path as much much worse will pass before your eyes and unfortunately there isnt a choice about getting involved or not, its the nature of 'the job'. Sit back and take a while to think it over trying to see thru both sides, it may help?

cheers
Digger

[JDNSW]

......
I get it, I broke the rules. I paid my fine and got on with it.
Doesn't mean I have to think it was under the fairest of circumstances.

Your problem is the law not the police. While well intentioned, this law would appear to be deliberately aimed at preventing the use of designated drivers."better three or four drivers all over the limit and hoping not to get caught rather than one driver stone cold sober with three or four drunk passengers."

But don't blame the police - in this case it is clear cut, and you should have known better.

John

[superquag]

In some European countries speeding fines are related to your income as well as the offense....

180-mph ride could bring huge fine (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38660951/ns/world_news-europe/t/swede-could-face-huge-speeding-fine/)

I read a comment from the Nokia gentleman, he regarded it as 'fair' that he should pay more than a lower income worker... pointing out that though he could afford thousands more, both would feel comparable pain.

On the other hand, it does raise the question as to whether hefty fines really do improve safety. - How does WA compare with NSW / Vic where 3 and 4 digit fines seem the norm, for almost 'anything'.

My 2 cents worth is that the liklihood of being detected AND spoken to is a far greater deterrent than merely extorting a huge figure... occasionally.

[superquag]

Your problem is the law not the police. While well intentioned, this law would appear to be deliberately aimed at preventing the use of designated drivers."better three or four drivers all over the limit and hoping not to get caught rather than one driver stone cold sober with three or four drunk passengers."

But don't blame the police - in this case it is clear cut, and you should have known better.

John

Got it in one John. It is simply bullying and oppression by those in power over those not, - because they CAN.

From memory, the Powers-That-Be from all sides of the political fence have studiously ignored income-related penalties, despite the probability of increased overall revenue.

[Griffo]

To the OP - I was once a passenger in a car that did something a little stupid, which prompted the unmarked car behind us to put on it's lights and tell us to pull over. At the time, we were on a narrow bit of road that would have been extremely hazardous to stop on, so the driver put on his indicator, slowed to a little bit below the limit, and proceed another 500m or so until there was a safe place to stop.
When the cop came to the window, he proceeded to lecture us about pulling over immediately, and that it was "his job" to decide where we stopped. He then tried to book the driver for failing to to follow police instruction or some such. What a crock! You can't win if they have it in for you.

What really really bugs me though is this fascination with speeding as a saftey measure. If they were serious about safety, they would
a) book those people driving excessively slowly
b) book people for failing to indicate
c) book people for tailgating
d) book people for excessive lane changing
e) book people for cutting others off
f) book people for jumping in front of heavy vehicles
There was a road safey campaign not long ago where a driver did pretty much all of the above, had an accident, and took out a innocent mother and baby. The message of the ad was "speed kills". Not "stupid drivers kill". There were a dozen offences in that ad, and all they concentrated on was the speed. Makes me so angry the people who drive to the conditions are penalised while those that sit there staring at the speedo rather than observing what is going on around them are rewarded.

[Disco Muppet]

Digger, it's not that I'm traumatised by it, it just left a rather sour taste in my mouth, and I can't help but look suspiciously at every cop.
That's probably because I'm young and impressionable :p
I think for the moment I'm a bit too jaded to be a police officer, perhaps a bit further down the track.
The other thing that irked me was the same week I got busted, the council was pushing a massive program about not letting your mates walk home, backed by the local cops.
Anyway. It's done.
And I drive a discovery now, so speeding tickets are unlikely :p

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I am probably a bit one eyed here as some of you know,
but let me just point out those couple of points I keep repeating
..
If I get a cupboard made and its crooked or wonky, it doesnt mean all carpenters are bastards...
...I used to work for NSW Health in Kings Cross and have met some of the most corrupt Police one could have the misfortune to meet. One of my clients was Sally-Anne Huckstepp, who was alegedly murdered by the Infamous NSW Detective Roger Rogerson, whom I have met. I was on a Police-Community Liaison Committee with Detective Senior Sergeant Graham (chook) Fowler and Detective Trevor Haken who were both also on the committee and later became infamous during the Wood Royal Commission.

I have also worked in emergency departments where I have met some of the most upstanding honest Police officers, such as murdered Police Constable Glenn McEnally.

If all Police were like the low lifes I met in Kings Cross, we would be right to bitch, but these are far and away the minority of Police, most are hard working honest people of integrity whom I am happy to praise and glad to have at least one as family.

It is a job many can't do, it is potentially full of extreme risk, in almost all situations there is at least one citizen who believes the Police have done them wrong and the work often goes without thanks.

If I get pulled over and given a ticket, even if it's wrong in this case there are probably a number of other occasions where I did do wrong and didn't get caught. So just cop it sweet and thank the officer for a thankless job and if the ticket was really wrong take it to court and argue it there.

Just be thankful that there are Police out there for when you do need them.

Diana

[Treads]

There's a bit of a difference between a sign on the side of the road or an ad on telly, and a cop with their pistol at eye level leaning in your window saying "don't do it again".

Where would you rather he carry it?

Perhaps it's a good idea that you rethink your intended profession, if the simple act of a kitted-up police officer standing beside your car gets you so concerned? ;)

[Disco Muppet]

Where would you rather he carry it?

Perhaps it's a good idea that you rethink your intended profession, if the simple act of a kitted-up police officer standing beside your car gets you so concerned? ;)

Do you think of me as someone who trembles at the sight of a person with a weapon or something? I own a firearm myself, and I know how to use it.
It's the overall effect of being pulled over.
My intended profession is the army, always has been. Police was just a more appropriate option for me at the time.

[BigBlueOne]

At the end of the day you have to take responsibility for your own actions. A Police officer won't turn up to your work and tell you how to do your job so don't try tell them how to do there job. Everyone complains they got a ticket etc. and cops should be catching "real" criminals. Fact is the cops who have pulled you over 9 times out of 10 are traffic cops and policing traffic offences is their job. General duties cops catch "real" criminals. If you dislike them so much don't call them next time you get beat up.

[Disco Muppet]

Again...
I'm not telling them how to do their job.
I'm just saying I didn't agree with the way they did it.
I didn't appeal the fine, or try to argue it...
Simply put I accepted what had happened.
Doesn't mean I have to like it.

[Homestar]

At the end of the day you have to take responsibility for your own actions.

I try, but others make a big fuss sometimes. If I'm on my bike - maybe doing a few Kmh over the speed limit, some people tell me it's not right, but my judgement says it is ok - particularly in the middle of nowhere...

These days, someone doing 140 in a 100 zone makes the 6 o'clock news - not my idea of fast, but anyway.

I'm not condoning all speeding - I always drive to the limit in towns, and where there is any other traffic, but there may be times when I'm in the middle of nowhere that the speedo creeps up a bit. I know there are those that will come back at me here and say all the usual stuff about speed, but this is just my 2 cents...

If I ever get caught, I'll cop it sweet - no dramas.:)

[101RRS]

At the end of the day you have to take responsibility for your own actions. A Police officer won't turn up to your work and tell you how to do your job so don't try tell them how to do there job. Everyone complains they got a ticket etc. and cops should be catching "real" criminals. Fact is the cops who have pulled you over 9 times out of 10 are traffic cops and policing traffic offences is their job. General duties cops catch "real" criminals. If you dislike them so much don't call them next time you get beat up.

Yes and it also their job to apply a bit of discretion - they do not have to issue that ticket when circumstances are relevant - a bit of common sense needs to apply.

[Disco Muppet]

Exactly.
And at the end of it all, honestly, my conscience is clear.
If I was speeding, weaving all over the road with my mates in the car, I'd feel guilty.
Especially if I crashed and killed someone.
I wasn't putting anyone at increased risk, as to say there's no risk when driving is a lie.

[tribute_landy]

Hi, everyone. I feel this thread has slipped in slightly the wrong direction. I wanted no finger pointing with the right and wrong of situations. I posted the original situation and was interested in the silly fines people have received.

The law is an ass and i understand police have a difficult job (my uncle is a lifelong british copper, was part of the Hostage recovery unit and moved up the ranks to be a fairly high ranking officer until he was forced into retirement) he has told me horror stories of cleaning up accidents and the like. So I understand how people get passionate about the black and white of a situation. I'm more interested in the grey area. Sometimes just sometimes people do mundane things and get fined for it.

Rant said.

I have enjoyed the stories both good and bad of your police experience.

Rich:)

[George130]

Have to agree the thread is slipping. I have delt with extreemly nice / helpfull cops both helping and telling me off. I have also been threatened into doing exactly what they wanted. All wlaks of life have their good and bad. I saw this as the chance to tell the story of the daft incident where the system just plain failed or the enforcer failed to engage the brain.

[vnx205]

Some people seem to be ignoring the reason for the restriction on passenger numbers for inexperienced drivers.

The following information is a reminder of why the restriction exits.

Carrying multiple passengers significantly increases the risk of a P plate driver being involved in a fatal crash. The risk for P plate drivers is four times as great as the risk of driving alone or with only one passenger, as shown in this graph.
http://www.arrivealive.vic.gov.au/files/initiatives/chart_crashrisk_passrestrict.jpg
Only nine percent of first year P plate drivers’ total driving and seven percent of their trips involve driving with two or more passengers. Despite this, around 26 percent of first year P plate drivers involved in fatal crashes are carrying two or more passengers.

Alcohol affected peer passengers can pose a dangerous distraction for an inexperienced driver.

A group of peer passengers can also directly and indirectly encourage more risk taking behaviour.

P plate drivers,driving school melbourne,probationary drivers,licence system,licensed driver,driving instructors (http://www.easterndrivingschool.com.au/vicroads-driving-passenger-restrictions.htm)

[Disco Muppet]

Can we please get past how I am clearly an irresponsible young hoon who had a car full of drunk people and got exactly what he deserves?
I get why the restrictions are there.
I also get that plenty of people here think I got exactly what I deserved, and you know what? Maybe I did.
I sure as **** watch what I do behind the wheel now ;)
It was at the start of the year, I like to think I've matured as both a person and a driver :)
But can we move on?
Plenty of other posts we could start arguing over.
*cough* soapbox *cough*

[isuzurover]

Can we please get past how I am clearly an irresponsible young hoon who had a car full of drunk people and got exactly what he deserves?
I get why the restrictions are there.
I also get that plenty of people here think I got exactly what I deserved, and you know what? Maybe I did.
I sure as **** watch what I do behind the wheel now ;)
It was at the start of the year, I like to think I've matured as both a person and a driver :)
But can we move on?
Plenty of other posts we could start arguing over.
*cough* soapbox *cough*

You were the one who brought it up in the first place.

If you want(ed) to be a cop, you should be able to appreciate how the police were doing the right thing - based on the stats above.

[Disco Muppet]

Plenty of other posts in this thread...
It's all very well to say "well according to these numbers..."
Policing is also about an appropriate reaction to the situation, that's why police discretion exists.
And thats all I was saying, I didn't think the reaction was appropriate.
But at the end of the day I have to wear it, and you are all entitled to your own opinion.

[vnx205]

Can we please get past how I am clearly an irresponsible young hoon who had a car full of drunk people and got exactly what he deserves?
I get why the restrictions are there.
In that case, I assume you are unlikely to again put yourself in a position where your risk of an accident becomes four times greater.


I didn't think I was suggesting that.

I was merely presenting some information about why the restriction exists because I had the impression that driving with more passengers than is allowed was being dismissed as a trivial issue.

The police saw someone breaking a law and did what society expects them to do; enforced that law. According to the evidence that prompted the creation of that law, you were four times more likely to have an accident than if you had the legal number of passengers.

That does not mean that he/she or anyone else thought you were a young hoon. It simply means that you were a driver who had increased the likelihood that he would have an accident four fold.

[Disco Muppet]

Fair enough, I may have responded in a heated manner.
Like I said, trying to move forwards :)

[bussy1963]

Its a fairly easy concept to understand:

DO THE CRIME PAY THE FINE or DO THE TIME.

The police are just doing a job like everyone else here. They go to work they get paid and hopefully they get to go home in one piece at night.

Apart from a emergency service workers or defence . What other occupation to do go to work and face the likely hood of getting shot or whatever.

It would be fair to say that a lot of the coppers do not agree with the laws but they need to enforce them begrudgingly.

Just pay up shut up and get on with life. Simply hey